ISOing sabie. Before I begin, I want to explain my mindset in this exercise since I've never played with sabie and a few others might also be unfamiliar.
Whenever I do an ISO like this, I try to enter in with a clean slate for the player I'm looking at. I then try to find both a mafia perspective and a civilian perspective for every post they make, asking myself which perspective makes more sense, but not ruling either side out as I go along. So if I say anything that seems farfetched or self-contradictory, it's just the nature of the exercise.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:05 am
Hey everyone! This game looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. I like the story. I dont remember if I've played a map based one before. Regardless it's good to be back! (Yesterday was actually the 1 year anniversary of my brain surgery so I'm glad to be back and functioning again!)
I am interested to see what the poll ends up doing as well.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:10 pm
I feel like the options probably do mean something in regard to how the game will move forward as people are saying. Like will you become more could mean getting something that helps you another power or something. I can see why people would vote that if it is in fact what that means. Someone had mentioned honorable tribunal sounds like it may be something to help civilians get one of the baddies. Each chosen option enhanced extra votes maybe? Not sure about the rest and could be totally wrong but just some thoughts thus far.
sabie kicks off with some mechanics chatter. I'm not alarmed by this. It's her first game in a very long time and we're in a mechanics-heavy setting. Where this sort of thing becomes alarming is if the player then takes a long time to engage in actual gameplayer chatter (which is why the argument against DDL on Day 1 was bogus). I don't know how long sabie dwelled on mechanics, but I bet I'm about to find out.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:24 pm
"The appearance of being true or real". Hmm idk about that sounds deceptive in a way as it says the appearance of rather than just being. Unless its revealing something deceptive?
Not sure but I think I'm going to go with the honourable Tribune. If it means what has been discussed thus far it sounds like it could be helpful.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:03 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:27 pm
@@sabie12 you've talked quite a bit about the different poll options and ended up going with "The Honourable Tribunal". Care to walk us through your thought process on that?
Based on what others were saying about what it might mean it sounded like it would benefit us.
I called others out for this, so I'll have to add sabie to the list. I'm skeptical of a player publicly framing their actions as civilian-friendly. I could also see
this post as an attempt to pile on suspicion against little old me. But this line never really went anywhere, so I don't think that's a serious concern. Minor point at best.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:16 pm
With all the talk of tying up lunches and the tribunal it does look like some of the roles impact the amount of votes people have on them anyway. So that would mean there is a potential for a situation to appear as a tie and then not really be that if someone has minus votes or extra secret votes put on them or whatever right? Or would the tribunal players know that information prior to their input?
It is Day 1 and sabie is still talking mechanics.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:15 am
I do see some valid points on the case against sloonei but I also can see that as a playstyle thing. It's been awhile since I've been here but I know sometimes people just go in guns blazing and start accusing people and get the conversation going. It's not my thing but some people are good at that.
Also just wondering why if someone is a top poster they shouldn't be voted for. Just in the sense that they do get people talking and a conversation happening?
I can read this as fence-sitting, but I do not have to. #StopSuspectingPeopleForThinkingInShadesOfGrey2k19 Sabie and I have not played together before, so it's refreshing to see her considering the possible differences in my playstyle. This would be a pretty tempered remark from a baddie on the first day of their first game in 2+ years. She could have hopped on a bandwagon, but she didn't. I do not know what sabie's pre-2018 games were like though. Anyone got anecdotes or links?
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:02 pm
Just a couple thoughts:
Dana and Nova haven't shown up at all yet as far as I saw. Are there plans for replacement if they don't?
Yeah Bob does seem a little all over the place I'll have to look more into that. Not sure if that's where drwilgys suspicion comes from? from what I can tell all drwilgy did was vote with no explanation and then go away with no explanation. I'm always wary of the random no explanation votes even if just a minimal one.
Also someone asked what valid points there were against sloonei and the genuine comment could be taken as an unnecessary statement but I'm not putting my suspicion on them right now. I see their posting as more stirring things up and getting people talking.
Trying to keep up the best I can with everything lots of people playing this game so much to read. Also I dont own a computer so phone typing is obnoxious sometimes blah.
The first paragraph starts as a minor suspicion against cbob before wandering over to wilgy. I don't know how I feel about the explanation of her stance on me. The language feels a bit more loose and open-ended, if that makes sense, and I can see it as a player trying to leave the door open for both a scum and town read on me, rather than a player who is of two minds about something. But I can also still see the latter.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:56 pm
Leaning drwilgy at this time due to random voting no explanation not even mentioning it and then completely disappearing. Off to a Christmas party. I will check back in after though in case anything else comes up.
Leans toward wilgy on Day 1. Lots of people did this. I don't find it inconsistent with sabie's posts, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's coming from a civilian mindset. She's expressed a few light concerns about a handful of players, including wilgy, but also acknowledged that some of these concerns could simply be a result of playstyles. wilgy seems to be her preferred target because he did not explain his vote.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:02 am
Wow okay things got a little crazy after I fell asleep. No one was even suspecting wolbre and then all of a sudden they're lynched and civ. RIP wolbre! I feel like that came out of nowhere. There's so much to read and catch up on.
Her reaction to the wolbre lynch. I can see this as a genuine response. sabie hasn't played in a long time, and I'm not sure that things like the wolbre lynch were a common event on the Syndicate in those days. But I'm also not sure what this post adds, and it could be seen as a bit superfluous/fluffy.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:40 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:14 pm
CAUGHT UP! GLORY!
Ok I pretty much commented on stuff as it went on, skipping anything that sounded too minor to deserve its own post.
First of all, this night end time is godawful to me and there's no way I can be here at the time, so I apologize if I wasn't here last EoD, and for the fact I'll probably miss all EoDs. Unless the hosts pull the end back like 3 hours, which I don't know if they can/want.
Second, I mostly agree on cases made on Sloonei, like Epi's, and really think he is saying a little too much on his posts sometimes. Like he's using flowery language and agreeing/disagreeing with everything at once to look like he's doing work. That said I also kind of like the point about his post count being too high for mafia (though that could be wrong) and I think his defenses are reasonable and I also think Mac's tinfoil theory on him and G-man is crazy. So put Sloonei as a slightly bad read to me, not a strong one.
Still think Tranq looks like crap. Need to see more from G-Man to be sure.
Mac still looks civ. Quin also looks very civ, I think I have the same Quindar that Speed does (inb4 Speed thinks he's bad). Getting a pingy feel from sabie, I think he/she's a little too hands off from the game, but could be just a fish-out-of-water thing.
DH feels less contributive than before this game but that might as well be a good thing because lately he's made a habit of putting huge contributions while being bad. I feel like I need to say something about DH because he's pretty much TS' Public Enemy #1 after the last few games.
Not really feeling anyone else, I'll bring the next serving of salad when I do.
The timing doesnt really work for me either. I was asleep while everything went down. Before I went to bed wolbre wasnt even being accused yet. That whole thing confused me as to how it went down so quickly. From what I can tell some of it seemed to stem from people wanting votes off of themselves. Do we know who voted where by the end of the poll?
I also did see some people questioning the wilgy votes and I explained why I voted him. I always thought it was deemed not acceptable to just randomly vote and never announce or explain and then just run away the rest of the day. If I'm wrong you may correct me. Even if someone has done that before I dont get why that's okay and to me it seems like a way to avoid being detected as bad. If everyone just randomly voted and then went away there would be no game.
I am not a big talker initially in a game especially with so many people and my couple year hiatus due to brain surgery. I do my best to keep up and see what's going on. I don't have a computer so it's hard for me to type out really long posts. I do apologize that logistically it's hard for me to carry on long conversations in this game. I know a few people but for the most part not familiar with many or the previous games or playstyles. So that's why you haven't seen a lot of my posts but I am paying attention and am definitley trying to get back into the swing of things.
Further explanation of the vote. Appeals to the history of suspecting a person for unexplained votes. I don't love that. It's not a defense based on the vote's own merits or something specific that sabie saw, but rather "This is something that we have always done, so I did it."
sabie12 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:34 pm
I said I would respond with thoughts after work and Ohhh I dont know everyone is so hard to read this game so far. I have a few thoughts but nothing profound really.
Nova still hasn't shown so well see what happens there.
Dana just recently started and mostly discussed game mechanic questions but theres so much to read I can see why if she wasn't here initially.
I can see the case on juliet's as it's a lot of just agreeing or responding to things rather than new ideas. I know I've played with her before but honestly dont remember when or what games.
Sig I can see how their behavior at end of day could be deemed kind of suspicious it was a little all over the place which could have been to make the wolbre vote look more random than it really was.
Quin eh he was bad last game and acted similarly but I get the feeling that's just him and him pushing people away could be a way to hide teammates or just some inside joke I'm not aware of with other players.
Colin I'm not sure about because he said I'm gonna bandwagon vote DDL without any real reason and then doesn't contribute anything else really. I did notice the few posts that were quotes with just lmao or like or something similar.
Sloonei talks a lot and changes his mind a lot but he does get conversations going and people talking. I'm not entirely sure how to feel about it as he got really defensive when the votes were on him. It's hard to read all of his posts but I know hes changed who he's suspecting many times. Which isn't to say he hasn't made some good points.
There was some stuff about gman but I have no idea I couldnt get much from his posts.
I'll have to look at mac and timmer as well as they were also wolbre voters.
Just some random thoughts so far. I'm gonna try to go enjoy my evening. I'm sure there will be a million posts to read when I get back haha.
None of these reads are particularly strong and I could compare this post to the tone I got in my initial ISO of juliets. But with juliets I was comparing her to recent history (Hogwarts and some other recent games). I've never played with sabie before and a lot of us are new to her. I have more trouble saying that soft reads are a bad thing coming from her.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:13 am
sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:03 am
[VOTE:
sabie12] aubergine
A hunch, i want to pursue later.
So as of right now I am the only person spirityo has accused the entire game. I don't even see a vote from them in the first lynch poll. They haven't even really shared any thoughts on anyone yet. I'm all for speculating about gameplay and roles and everything because I also do that but usually by this point in the game some of the speculation is regarding players and reads on players. Just find that interesting.
I am still not convinced wilgy isnt bad. Unless he just really doesn't care about this game at all he didn't even put up any defense about being accused or voted for. And he still really hasn't been around. It also now seems like maybe TH was defending him.
I was just speculating if TH was the trickster could he have killed nutella and someone killed him. I dont know if that really impacts anything but it would be an interesting turn of events if it did happen that way.
Can someone condense the argument on g man so I can get a better idea of where that is coming from? I didnt really get much from trying to read him before.
I know I haven't posted much there is a lot to follow and I get busy with work and things. I've been keeping up best I can though at least with reading everything.
Sabie's initial resposne to sprit's first mention of her is to discredit him outright. Not the best look. She's sticking with the wilgy vote, but would later suggest there might be substantial reason for that.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:15 pm
Interesting I wonder who is out there giving out incorrect information about me. I'm curious to know what was said maybe it was taken the wrong way. I'm assuming the old lady in the woods is something regarding the map.
Addresses the possibilities for misinterpretation or falsification of information against her. I don't disagree that these are possibilities.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:44 pm
Sorsha wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:32 pm
Put a vote on wilgy for now. Maybe he will come out of hiding again?
Maybe but even when he did last time he was very nonchalant about everything like oh I have votes okay whatever I dont care bye. I feel like usually people who don't post much explain that they're busy or something. And typically at least attempt to defend themselves. He voted no explanation and then disappears and comes back with just wanted to tie things up and then nothing.
And spirityo that sounds like a baddie was near me not that I'm a baddie. I now see you are just misinterpreting the info given to you.
Moving my vote to wilgy.
Seems to believe sprityo now, but that he is misinterpreting his information. This is also where I ended up yesterday. I am unclear on her stance on sprityo at this point, though. She has voted for him and in the next post she says this "confirms her suspicions".
sabie12 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:50 am
I dont know all I know is someone is messing with me and has it out for me and that little bit of map info is making people suspect me when it really does not say I'm bad. People haven't made any case against me other than here is some really vague info we choose to interpret incorrectly and we will automatically assume sabie is bad now. I am not bad so someone is trying to make me look that way to get suspicion off of themselves.
After wilgy has been lynched, sabie's defense turns into "someone is out to get me." I don't love this. It looks like a baddie with their back against the wall abruptly changing the story. Before it was that sprit was misinterpreting information. Now it's a witch hunt.
THAT SAID, the existence of suggestive information against a player, especially one who is unfamiliar to a large part of the roster, does make that player a sitting duck for scum bandwagoning. It's something to be mindful of and I would not fault a civilian sabie for being a bit paranoid here. But she appears to be changing her own narrative, which is the primary concern.
sabie12 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:17 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:07 pm
sabie12
You were seen
with a jagged blade by sprityo, right?
Has anyone considered you may have shared a square with a goon? Who have you been with?
This is what I've been trying to say the whole time that there was a baddie either in the same square or next to me. This is why I think spirit is interpreting the info incorrectly. I recieved some info on some peoples map locations so based on that I have some people I suspect both of that and of targeting DH. I dont know that I can directly say I shared a square with whoever because that may be bordering on rules violations which is why I haven't directly shared that information. As I said the "info dumping" thing is new to me and confuses me a little on how much info is allowed to be shared.
This post reduces the concerns I mentioned above. It seems to return to the earlier stance on sprit's infodump without dismissing the "somebody is out to get me" attitude. I can see them as compatible for a civilian sabie.
Today she has mentioned sig as a suspect a couple of times and been engaged in self-defense.
I would like to ask for another suspect or two from [mention]sabie12[/mention], and also a couple of town reads to balance it out. This ISO does not give me a clear read one way or the other. I see a number of things that could make sense coming from a baddie, and a number that seem to reflect a civilian mindset. I would lean slightly town for now, but that may be colored by my tendency to give the benefit of doubt to players who I am unfamiliar with.
