The Syndicate

alexa wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:07 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:06 pm
sabie12 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:03 pm People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.
But see, I think I believe Sabie when she says this. This tone is real. Sabie is adamant about her decision and offers no justifications beyond the immediate sense of caution she felt about pulling the trigger. She is correct that we've had a lot of vigilante misfires in this game. I can fully understand her reservations about pulling the trigger, and she makes it seem as though she was less willing to shoot paopan than either of her chat partners from last night.
Ok, but she expressed 0 of this hesitation in chat.

Sabie seems to suggest that she was not as enthusiastic about the plan as the two of you. Would you say that this was the case? How would you describe sabie's participation in the group chat?

Creature remains the player I am most confident on.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:03 pm People can discuss what they think I did or did not say in a btsc. I feel like that is a slippery slope. Alexa and belzy talked about it together and tried to make a decision on my behalf. It's very hard to defend myself against something that others cannot see. I have explained my thought process and where my apprehension came from and I expressed that in the chat. it was also discussed that if I didn't shoot paopan he would be chopped anyway. I think I'm valid in being cautious here. I expressed that I had one shot left what if I chose wrong and mess things up further? So basically me choosing not to use up my last shot means I'm mafia. I'm not upset or anything just putting my perspective out there.

But see, I think I believe Sabie when she says this. This tone is real. Sabie is adamant about her decision and offers no justifications beyond the immediate sense of caution she felt about pulling the trigger. She is correct that we've had a lot of vigilante misfires in this game. I can fully understand her reservations about pulling the trigger, and she makes it seem as though she was less willing to shoot paopan than either of her chat partners from last night.

If sabie is a wolf, it also heavily implies paopan is one as well. Maybe the sabie/paopan/creature world does make sense after all.

Sabie certainly feels like the most unresolved slot in the game, if that makes sense. I feel like I can make convincing arguments either way for her.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:57 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:55 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:55 pm Maybe we should look into Sabie and Paopon then
What has Creature done to become an irrefutable town read?
I have not townread Creature, so why ask me?

Would you consider voting for him today?

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:56 pm ilario is only really not pointless if his poisons only hit town, then he's a surefire lynch as it's rather obvious he's lying about his wincon at that point.
But no point in even really talking about him until that point in time.

I'm pretty sure he only claims the one poison. Plus he already shot one mafia member.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:55 pm Maybe we should look into Sabie and Paopon then

What has Creature done to become an irrefutable town read?

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:53 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:49 pm It is like town wants to lose this game

We only killed mafia cuz:

Flacon res checked Tsp
Marmot got shot by dya
Dizzy by ilario
Mac by me, alexa and sabie

We never seem to decide on an actual mafia lynch (unless red checked), and now we are even more divided than ever before and that is really crazy. Usually scum creates the diffusion, so who is guilty of that? Alexa should be with me and Porscha in towncore, yet... poisoned and scumread. Like wtf.
I know. I am saying identifying the wolfiest player is important. If we mislynch today we're likely getting souped to a loss.

Identifying the town in the POE won't help when the POE is already tight enough.

Who is the towniest player in your POE?

Also I will claim if it becomes evident that I will be eliminated otherwise. If I am going to die otherwise, it makes no sense for me to fear the soup.

I have mech which confirms me as town.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:51 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:49 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:47 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:46 pm targetting illario is not pointless FMPOV. he is playing maliciously, he is not going to achieve his "claimed wincon" when i die and idk what other powers he have so i want to kill him and i won't stop voting him until he dies.

from other people's POV, it's w/e, but you know how letting a claimed 3P live went last year.
We also need to catch the mafia team. Who are they?
idk, I just killed one of them. I'd like Paopan to die then to re-assess from there. but I won't even get a shot to live.
Please consider lynching Sloonei with me today

You will note that alexa has had very little to say about me this game.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:49 pm It is like town wants to lose this game

We only killed mafia cuz:

Flacon res checked Tsp
Marmot got shot by dya
Dizzy by ilario
Mac by me, alexa and sabie

We never seem to decide on an actual mafia lynch (unless red checked), and now we are even more divided than ever before and that is really crazy. Usually scum creates the diffusion, so who is guilty of that? Alexa should be with me and Porscha in towncore, yet... poisoned and scumread. Like wtf.

Here is where some consideration of the Town Sloonei worldview comes in handy.

I am town. The POE of others seems to heavily suggest I must be mafia in order for the game to make sense.

My own 3-person POE of Sabie, paopan, and Creature does not feel very solid.

Therefore I am lead to question the game state.

alexa wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:47 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:46 pm
Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:39 pm I don't think sabie holstering makes them look bad because there was discussion in the thread wrt holstering in the last day phase
But why didn't Sabie say that to me and Alexa last night
yeah, I just don't understand why she lied about it.

Did your chat span the full 24 hours of the night phase?

alexa wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:46 pm targetting illario is not pointless FMPOV. he is playing maliciously, he is not going to achieve his "claimed wincon" when i die and idk what other powers he have so i want to kill him and i won't stop voting him until he dies.

from other people's POV, it's w/e, but you know how letting a claimed 3P live went last year.

We also need to catch the mafia team. Who are they?

I also believe that sabie's reaction to the immediate scrutiny she faced for not shooting paopan looked town. She seemed sincerely emotionally overwhelmed. I think that only happens if she made an earnest decision not to pull the trigger on paopan, and then felt that her decision was being attacked.

This game has started to go off the rails. Let's regroup.

ALEXA IS POISONED. Arguing about her alignment today is pointless. Unless there is a healer who opts to save her, she is flipping at the end of this phase whether she is town or mafia.

Targeting Ilario today is pointless. He has claimed 3P, and takes responsibility for poisoning Alexa. He has presented arguments for suspecting alexa to be mafia. We can agree or disagree with this arguments. But, again, she is going to flip no matter what. We can discuss her alignment, but only insofar as it helps us to identify other POE possibilities around her.

There are three mafia remaining. It is a safe bet that Ilario is not one of them in any world. Belzy, Porscha, and falcon are also almost definitely not among them. LinearPoint is only mafia if Alexa is also mafia. The more civilians we can identify in the remaining groups of players, the easier it becomes to solve this game.

I believe that DrWilgy and JPIC are town based on interactions with dead mafia members and, in JPIC's case, posts during this day phase.

That leaves me with Creature, Sabie, paopan, and the possibility of Alexa and LinearPoint. If Alexa flips town, then I feel the game may be solved. If Alexa flips mafia then the game may be solved as well. I would pick Creature and LinearPoint as her most likely partners.

Absolutely none of those POE reads are set in stone (including the JPIC and WIlgy townreads). But healthy discussion is essential if we want to win this game. We must be open to reconsideration of reads, and pursue things with clear and honest minds. I am saying these words as much for myself and everyone else.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:31 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:25 pm Can someone remind me who was responsible for each Day 1 vig shot?
KZA - Sean
Marmot - Dya
Scotty - MR
Bo - C4
Alison - Alexa

Thank you.

I do indeed have mech that confirms me as town.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:30 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:24 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:17 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:15 pm We should be trying to identify town players in the POE right now.
I'd rather identify the wolf players. Lynching town here looks catastrophic.
Identifying the remaining town in the POE also identifies those wolves.
Thing is: my POE is you, Wilgy and Pao in he world alexa is town. But I'm still very uncertain.

There are three wolves remaining, so if this is your POE then your POE has a full team in place.

And that POE is wrong. So let's go over the uncertain things, I guess.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:28 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:25 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:25 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:23 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:17 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:15 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:13 pm

Yet you are defending Paopon today
When he is faced with arguments that I do not think are applicable, yes.
You say Paopon is in your POE but once Paopon is in danger of getting lynched, you try to convince others not to lynch him and call every reason nai. Why is he even in your POE? I reeks as a fake POE.
He is in the POE because I have no reason to town read him. That's what "POE" means in this context.

That Paopan is playing how paopan evidently always plays the game is not a conclusive reason to suspect him. It's not a reason to call him town either.

You are in a tunnel right now, Belzy.
Did you learn that last sentence from Dyslexicon? He would be the only one in this game to tell me that based on our conversation.
I have no idea what this means, but you are being immensely frustrating right now.
You said that sentence yourself, so you do know what it means.

There are four sentences in the post in question. I do not know which one of them you are referring to, and Dizzy is not the sole inventor of any of the concepts we are talking about.

This conversation is pointless.

alexa wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:28 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:27 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:12 pm If the group mafia team is eliminated, any lost mafia that may exist will inherit the factional kill and the tie break. If there are no lost mafia, it will be inherited by a third party. There will be an announcement when any faction is completely eliminated from the game.

hm, wouldn't lost wolf have to be assigned though, since it's technically a role? or does it not work that way on TS?

I've never played a game with the "mafia captain" mechanic before.

I guess that's not a direct implication. But it's a suggestion that there may be lost mafia.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:12 pm If the group mafia team is eliminated, any lost mafia that may exist will inherit the factional kill and the tie break. If there are no lost mafia, it will be inherited by a third party. There will be an announcement when any faction is completely eliminated from the game.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:25 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:23 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:17 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:15 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:13 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:12 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:10 pm

Has been defending* Paopan
Paopan is firmly in my POE.
Yet you are defending Paopon today
When he is faced with arguments that I do not think are applicable, yes.
You say Paopon is in your POE but once Paopon is in danger of getting lynched, you try to convince others not to lynch him and call every reason nai. Why is he even in your POE? I reeks as a fake POE.
He is in the POE because I have no reason to town read him. That's what "POE" means in this context.

That Paopan is playing how paopan evidently always plays the game is not a conclusive reason to suspect him. It's not a reason to call him town either.

You are in a tunnel right now, Belzy.
Did you learn that last sentence from Dyslexicon? He would be the only one in this game to tell me that based on our conversation.

I have no idea what this means, but you are being immensely frustrating right now.

Can someone remind me who was responsible for each Day 1 vig shot?

ALSO ALSO we have not discussed that the setup seems to imply a lost wolf exists.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:17 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:15 pm We should be trying to identify town players in the POE right now.
I'd rather identify the wolf players. Lynching town here looks catastrophic.

Identifying the remaining town in the POE also identifies those wolves.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:17 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:15 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:13 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:12 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:10 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:10 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:06 pm Sloonei is more likely mafia than Paopon, and they might not be teamed.
But they could be. Sloonei has been Paopan afterall rn rh.
Has been defending* Paopan
Paopan is firmly in my POE.
Yet you are defending Paopon today
When he is faced with arguments that I do not think are applicable, yes.
You say Paopon is in your POE but once Paopon is in danger of getting lynched, you try to convince others not to lynch him and call every reason nai. Why is he even in your POE? I reeks as a fake POE.

He is in the POE because I have no reason to town read him. That's what "POE" means in this context.

That Paopan is playing how paopan evidently always plays the game is not a conclusive reason to suspect him. It's not a reason to call him town either.

You are in a tunnel right now, Belzy.

We should be trying to identify town players in the POE right now.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:13 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:12 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:10 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:10 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:06 pm Sloonei is more likely mafia than Paopon, and they might not be teamed.
But they could be. Sloonei has been Paopan afterall rn rh.
Has been defending* Paopan
Paopan is firmly in my POE.
Yet you are defending Paopon today

When he is faced with arguments that I do not think are applicable, yes.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:10 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:10 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:06 pm Sloonei is more likely mafia than Paopon, and they might not be teamed.
But they could be. Sloonei has been Paopan afterall rn rh.
Has been defending* Paopan

Paopan is firmly in my POE.

@Belzy can you attempt to entertain a world where I am town please? Consider it a mental exercise.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:08 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:06 pm Urge to claim rising. I have mech which can confirm me as town.
You defended both Dizzy and Mac. Called them town, for one simple little reason, never voted them... you vote a lot of townie, and spared Tsp while making a weird scrunity post. You have protected literally every known mafia player.

I never defended Dizzy. Dizzy was dead before I was really involved with the game. Marmot too.

I did think Mac was town for a while. So did everyone else.

I still have mech which can confirm me as town.

Urge to claim rising. I have mech which can confirm me as town.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:02 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:54 am [VOTE: paopan] aubergine because I'm not a fan of their current pop-in. We are chopping TSP today, so this vote is just for emphasis.

@Paopan here is my POE list of potential wolves, modified just for you!

Creature
DrWilgy
Justplayingitcool
LinearPoint
Paopan Sloonei
Phil and Gloria
sabie12

Who is the most town player on this list? Are there any names you think should be added to the list?
Qfr

I do not kmow what these letters mean and these posts are counterproductive.

@alexa why did you rolecop belzy?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:45 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:40 pm Would it he dangerous to ask @Paopan who he has targeted?
He said me last RD, but honestly it's like the easiest fake claim for a Maf to make

Which night did he claim to protect you? Night 2 or Night 3?

Would it he dangerous to ask @Paopan who he has targeted?

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:29 pm DrWilgy has been a headscratcher for days years.

Fixed

I made tea and have calmed down. I’m a british grandma.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:13 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:10 pm This is too silly for me. I’m out. I’m contemplating claiming right now because the silliness is too strong.

I’ll come back later. Please at least try to entertain a world where alexa is mafia. She is flipping today regardless. And I think that Creeature makes a lot of sense as a teammate of Mac/Tsp anyway. So please look into him as well.
have you dropped your sabie read or is that still around? No need to claim

I do not think sabie and alexa would be teammates. But it’s not 100% impossible.

I thought sabie’s response to the pressure she faced out of the gate this phase looked like overwhelmed town.

I mean for fuck’s sake. If I’m mafia I need every single person in the POE that I can get. I’m not clearing two of them right away to start the phase whole pushing the most secured player on the list.

This is too silly for me. I’m out. I’m contemplating claiming right now because the silliness is too strong.

I’ll come back later. Please at least try to entertain a world where alexa is mafia. She is flipping today regardless. And I think that Creeature makes a lot of sense as a teammate of Mac/Tsp anyway. So please look into him as well.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:08 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:05 pm
Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:00 pm also please explain the wilgy and jpic reads sloonei, I want to hear them
It has to do with interactions with flipped wolves. I do not think either of you looked like partners. I can explain in more detail later.

Now ask yourself why wolf sloonei is out here reducing the POE at this stage.
A pocket attempt to lead me into voting creature or some other miselim, while alexa then dies to poison and probably flips town. another town dies during the night. We then focus our efforts on ilario because he is still around and a fallback yeet, and then we all die to soup

I was banking on ilario claiming 3p?

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:05 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:03 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:59 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:57 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:56 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:55 pm I confess the world in which alexa is wolf makes things significantly simpler this game.
Maybe too simple, as in too good to be true?

Why not just lynch Paopan
Why is paopan mafia?
He keeps calling the most obvious townies mafia all game long, without taking any progress into account. What about his play is town worthy?
I fear that behavior may just be indicative of paopan.
Every time you post, i scumread you. You are just mafia with Paopon. It has to be. Alexa is town, period. You and Paopon voting for Creature, no, just no.

This is a losing mindset.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:58 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:57 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:53 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:52 pm Alexa is not a chop candidate though. She is poisoned and will die regardless at the end of the day. She has indicated as much herself, and ilario claimed credit for the poisoning after alexa had announced it.

This is why I am not leaping to chop ilario this instant. His claim did not alter the game state. He is not asking is to put faith in him. He merely told us what his role is because it provides evidence in support of events that have already happened and actions which have already taken place. We are not being asked to “trust a 3p.”
What do we do with ilario if alexa flips town?
Eliminate him if it’s safe. Sabie has a vig shot, for instance. I just think the distrust and backlash against ilario here is overblown. I am inclined to say that I believe his claim entitely and hope that he is right.
c'mon man, a 3p literally won GoC last year.

ilario could well be telling the truth but i'd be a fool to believe it.

Context is important. The timing and nature of ilario’s claim influences my response to it, believe it or not.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:00 pm also please explain the wilgy and jpic reads sloonei, I want to hear them

It has to do with interactions with flipped wolves. I do not think either of you looked like partners. I can explain in more detail later.

Now ask yourself why wolf sloonei is out here reducing the POE at this stage.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:59 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:57 pm
Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:56 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:55 pm I confess the world in which alexa is wolf makes things significantly simpler this game.
Maybe too simple, as in too good to be true?

Why not just lynch Paopan
Why is paopan mafia?
He keeps calling the most obvious townies mafia all game long, without taking any progress into account. What about his play is town worthy?

I fear that behavior may just be indicative of paopan.

Belzy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:56 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:55 pm I confess the world in which alexa is wolf makes things significantly simpler this game.
Maybe too simple, as in too good to be true?

Why not just lynch Paopan

Why is paopan mafia?

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:53 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:52 pm Alexa is not a chop candidate though. She is poisoned and will die regardless at the end of the day. She has indicated as much herself, and ilario claimed credit for the poisoning after alexa had announced it.

This is why I am not leaping to chop ilario this instant. His claim did not alter the game state. He is not asking is to put faith in him. He merely told us what his role is because it provides evidence in support of events that have already happened and actions which have already taken place. We are not being asked to “trust a 3p.”
What do we do with ilario if alexa flips town?

Eliminate him if it’s safe. Sabie has a vig shot, for instance. I just think the distrust and backlash against ilario here is overblown. I am inclined to say that I believe his claim entitely and hope that he is right.

Alexa is not a chop candidate though. She is poisoned and will die regardless at the end of the day. She has indicated as much herself, and ilario claimed credit for the poisoning after alexa had announced it.

This is why I am not leaping to chop ilario this instant. His claim did not alter the game state. He is not asking is to put faith in him. He merely told us what his role is because it provides evidence in support of events that have already happened and actions which have already taken place. We are not being asked to “trust a 3p.”

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