The Syndicate

Scotty is back to the top of my still-incomplete list of suspects. I say we lynch him today, unless things change.

Scotty wrote:Oh, and this:

speedchuck wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Silver Lantern wrote:Okay I've sat on this long enough that we've seen people comment on Wigly and others avoid doing so, despite my request.

I killed Wigly, and unfortunately he was town. Sorry Wigly, but there was really nothing constructive at all from you on D1 when I ISOed you and i figured after Sig turned up town that taking out another suspicious D1 player would give us the most info on the reads of others towards you D1 as I was really hoping I was right about you being scum.

There goes the pants.

I don't know exactly what you are claiming, but would you please clarify:
Did you get Wigly's entire role, or just alignment?

I would ask, if this is a one-shot ability (a question on its own), why did you use it on day one? But I feel like any answer to that question would provide more value to mafia than town. I say this as a person used to power-claims. Please don't answer these latter questions unless you have a very good reason for doing so.

For the record, I tentatively believe Silver Lantern on this one.

If you believe Silver, why are you fishing for more info about his role?

I'm fishing for Wilgy's role. You know, the dead guy. I feel like that much info would be valuable to town, should it be provided.
I feel like info related to the one-shottedness of SL's role or role-related reasons for killing D1 (which I wouldn't do as a vig) would be of negative value to town. This is the conclusion I came to, based on my time playing. I can further explain my reasoning, should it be required, but I don't think that's your point.

If you disagree, please say so before he replies, and explain why. And if SL disagrees (having more information than I do), then he can ignore me. Edit before posting: As he (apparently) did.

That's beneficial to both parties and you know it.

So you agree that it would be beneficial to town?

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I still have a residual town read on LoRab every time I see her thanks to Mad Max. I could see her walking down the street and I'd let everyone around me know that she's definitely town.

I was thinking about how she tied it at EoD the other day. I thought about how beautiful it would have been if the roles were reversed and she was bad while pulling that stunt.

I remember that thought crossing my mind at a certain point too. Nothing was impossible in that game.

I just started scrolling through Scotty's Day 3 posts. He said this initially:

Scotty wrote:Them MM voters lookin real good right now by the by

Well done on catching him y'all

And then went on a tirade against the two people who hammered on metalmarsh.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I want to shift the focus of all the discussion onto Scotty. Everyone talk about Scotty. I command it.

I have no reason to town read him. I don't know that a blank interactive analysis necessarily means he's evil since I do see those often with civilians when I take on the same workload.

But there's nothing in his posts that I have seen that say to me "oh, there's civilian Scotty". I'd lynch him. He actually just gave me shit for my tracker claim not being accountable when I believe he soft claimed exactly something very early in the game. I don't know what it was. Did that ever become a hard claim? I haven't read everything.

Some of us threatened him with votes yesterday and he said he could verify his something claim in the night if we'd just leave him alive, and then when the thread opened back up on Day 3 he said "aw phooey, i was blocked."

Quin wrote:I cannot wait for Sloonei to get to me, because I'm pretty sure all I've talked about with marmot is fluff.

I clicked on your ISO, did one quick Ctrl + F, and left.

I want to shift the focus of all the discussion onto Scotty. Everyone talk about Scotty. I command it.

I've done more cramming since I joined this game than I did in 5 years of college.

My brain is fried and any more analysis I provide will be half-assed, so I'm calling it a night on that front. I'll still be around, but I'm done digging through posts now. I owe Scotty another thorough ISO in the morning, but I've also got a long day of work tomorrow. I won't have a ton of time to do things here.

Sloonei wrote:Assignment #2 is complete.

Remember when I said this?:

Sloonei wrote:A note: When I've caught Scotty as scum before, it's been for contradictions and inconsistencies in his behavior.

Well...

I'll reiterate an initial part of my beef with Scotty because I don't know if he's given it a proper response yet:

Scotty wrote:I see I missed a lot in being gone from the thread. I'm real busy y'all, Donny participation is highly dragging on all fronts going forward.

I'm caught up, and realize that this is why I prefer to vote no-shows on day 1. I'm not sure who's bad. I thought Nutella was playing the fences early on with her first few posts, but I like her recent posts. The golden thing seems like a pretty good place to continue down I guess.

Not liking Wilgy's entrance. Any time he plays the WIFOM card my eyebrow twitches. Both he and MM.

I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.

If Scotty earnestly believes that Dyslexicon slipped on Day 1, why is he also lamenting the problem that he can never tell who's bad on Day 1? If that was a slip, isn't it plain as day that Dyslexicon is bad?

What do you have to say to this, Scotty? I'm interested in hearing what your thought process was when you made this post, if that's something your memory even has access to. You've dismissed it, I think, but not in a way that actually addresses it, unless I'm misremembering things.

The following is a complete compilation of all interactions between Metalmarsh and Scotty in the game of Phenom Mafia: So um.
unvote jackofhearts, I think? Am I still voting for him?

vote Scotty

speedchuck: Early scum read. I like this. I'll be a little nervous and say it's possible a new player to our community wanted to take a bold stance and come out bussing one of their teammates Day 1, but that's a tinfoil theory.
I believe he is being critical of metalmarsh's vote for Dyslexicon here, as part of a larger post. I like this whole post and the discussion it is a part of from speedchuck. He puts some good thoughts into the thread, stands up for what he believes in (Dyslexicon's slip was intentional), and gets some reads out of it. Big positive marks for speedchuck here.

A big list of common suspects which includes a marmot. Nothing to see here.

Speedchuck was one of the first people to engage with me when I entered the thread and started hurling questions at everything. I liked his tone from the start. He was relaxed and open and his accounts of things appear to have been as objective as a person is able to be. He names metalmarsh as one of his top suspects (along with Scotty) in this post and also offers a comment on him regarding the Dyslexicon slip. His suspicion is looking consistent and genuine to me at this point.

speedchuck wrote:http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 78#p335178

This post is interesting because it contradicts itself? It, at the beginning of the post, says that logic points to Dizzy doing an on-purpose fakeslip.
Then says later in the thread that it is an accident.
Then I think they ended the day on Dizzy, despite saying they felt good about Diz in the same post.

Maybe Marmot just didn't want to be on SIG?

I don't know. Most of what bothers me about marmot's posts probably have to do with their playstyle/his low activity thanks to other games. Nothing particularly useful, I think. Would lynch scotty over marmot. Unless contradicting themselves in order to seem agreeable and unsure is a Meta-Marmot-Metal-Marsh-Mafia-Move.

More of the same. I'm gonna go ahead and slap a town read on speedchuck now, and also note that I believe Scotty criticized him earlier for never following through on his promise to ISO metalmarsh, to which I say... this post exists, Scotty.

speedchuck is town or your money back.

Golden & metalmarsh:
[Map stuff]
Conversation about stuff that's not entirely relevant to this game. Golden appears confused at first. At first glance this does not look like two teammates interacting in the thread. Just appears conversational and out of the blue, and Golden's little moment of confusion at first seems earnest and, I don't know why, but that makes me feel good about him in this context. That said, this is not something I'd build a read around. Just a slight mark in Golden's favor.
Day 1 "fine" read on the marmot. Kinda null. His opinion changed somewhere down the line, though. Here's Day 2 Golden: Metalmarsh is on his short list of suspects and at the very bottom of his rainbow. The reasons stated here are vague, but I don't hate it. That's mostly all there is until today. This makes me feel slightly better about Golden, even if it's a bit scarce. I still owe him a proper investigation.

I am getting very tired. It's been a long day and I think I'm running out of steam.

Long Con's interactions with/about Metalmarsh are surprisingly scarce. After the obligatory map chatter, I just see three real instances where Long Con acknowledges metalmarsh. There's this question & answer:

Long Con wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Long Con wrote:Dyslexicon: Is it over? Your fakeslip plan? Should we keep discussing it, or drop it and move on?

What else did you want to talk about?

I wanted to see if, with a little prompting, Dyslexicon would step forward with some results... which is what I would expect to see from a plan like this.

I get nothing from this. Easy prodding question, says nothing about LC's alignment or association with marmot.

Then there's this big list of GTH-style reads where sig and metalmarsh are Long Con's only two bad reads (the list of players was taken from a JoH post):

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I should probably start asking questions.

Silver/Quin/Fred/LC, gtth read someone in my light green to orange area, would you?

I need more evaluation from the players I've played with the most so I can evaluate your evaluations.

LIGHT GREEN
Quin - Slight Civ... the only ping I have had was his Soneji accusation of "shutting down discussion", which isn't accurate in my interpretation
Fred - Civ... just looked back over his posts, and they're pretty genuine
Golden - Civ... same as Quin, I think I'm gettting to know both their games pretty well by now.
YELLOW
Marmot - Bad... feels like he's going through the motions
LC - Civ... I saw his role card
Sig - Bad... not much content yet, but his Golden suspicion feels contrived.
ORANGE
Sorsha - I think she forgot she's playing. Null. I also don't see the "give the map to a female" thing as suspect, despite JJJ's pushing.
Nacho - Civ... Genuine feel
Soneji - Civ... good opinions, many match my own

I think this is a decent look in general for Long Con. As I understand it, Jackofhearts was just looking for singular reads on any of a range of players he'd listed, and Long Con appears to have offered thoughts on all of them. I like that.

Then he casts a vote for him, following the lead of nutella, though it appears to have only be intended as temporary:

Long Con wrote:Golden actually left me in charge of trusting your gut, nutella. I'll place a vote for him until he gets back.

Vote Lynch Metalmarsh89

I dunno. Scarce, but the posts themselves look alright. Am I missing something? I feel like there should be more here.

I'm skipping people with tons of posts because I want to cover more ground tonight. If anyone would like to take a look at people like Quin and Jackofhearts, please do.
I'll also be skipping Dyslexicon and nutella because I think they're town based on what I've seen so far.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Thanks for taking on the workload, Sloonbeard. I understand your trepidation with my Marmot stuff. You look very town in the assessment. My read on Marmot hinged a bit on his map claim. I thought it quite plausible he had the map since I was lying in part to cover him (and the little campaign with INH on Day 0 allowed him to have at least one vote I could identify). I didn't go after him since I thought he might have the map, and I didn't give him credit either since his map claim was first. When I gave Nacho that vague "might not be a town read" comment, I had the map in mind. Of the claimants to the map, I thought Marmot was the more likely to be a mafia gambit if untrue -- just because of his personality and style.

Anyway I am a 2-shot tracker and already used both. I thought my mappiness and my JJJness might get me killed early.

Player X targeted Quin on Night 1. I'll reveal who if given a good reason. This was what I was poking Quin about before.

Player Y targeted nobody last night. I'll again witthold the name for the time being. I don't know whether it's an unused shot or a passive role, and the distinction may be best kept quiet.

So what changed between your PoE list and your "no reason to town read" list?

This is the only time Metalmarsh mentions Soneji. Soft support of a specific post nd vague support of other unstated posts.
Soneji mentions metalmarsh once indirectly as part of a map discussion.

I honestly forgot Soneji was playing in this game. But I am used to him disappearing for stretches and can always count on him providing plenty of juicy content when he returns. So I'll wait for that.

that was much quicker.

One thing I've picked up on in this ambitious exercise: Dyslexicon is the towniest player in the game based solely on Metalmarsh's ISO.

Some choice Marmot interactions with JJJ: Jay asked Marmot lots of questions. This is not unusual. I am just unsure what to make of Marmot's tone in a lot of these responses. He definitely does not appear to be prodding back. I can't decide if this is timidness/buddying or two baddie teammates with some stiff interactions in the thread. I would not expect these two to be uncomfortable with false interactions together, so I guess I am leaning slightly pro-Jay in this instance, but it's something that I wanted to put into the thread anyway. Thoughts?

or ask jay how the hell he does this so quickly.

At this rate I'm not going to finish these reads until 3 AM if I intend to do everyone. Someone should volunteer to help me out.

Marmotian/JJJian interactions:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Marmot, while you're sloshed, why don't you tell us a little bit about your mafia team?

They're a wonderful group of peop le .

I'm more scred of the otherm afia team though.

Unless I am missing something, this is the first interaction I see between them. I can see a scum Jay asking this question to his teammate in the thread very easily. The second line is a curious one though. In my initial ISO (in which I came out with a town read on Metalmarsh) this was the one quibble I had. That second part struck me as a bit of nervousness in answering the question. He felt uncomfortable talking about being bad when he earnestly is bad, so he slipped in a little joke about there being a second team. Whether he's nervous because he feels pressured by the question (which would mean town Jay) or because he simply feels a need to provide some WIFOM (which might mean scum Jay), I can't tell.
Passing reference RE: Map stuff.
They're looking mighty friendly right here. And not in the supremely obvious INH sort of way.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:Why is Marmot a townread?

Because he pretended to have the map before anyone else did. I appreciate the cover.

This is to say that it is possible, under certain conditions, for me to not have a town read on Marmot.

This thought feels incomplete. Complete this thought, Jay.
Soft defense.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I would like for you guys (Marmot and Quin) to tell me the civilian motive for a fake slip that isn't trying deliberately to get lynched.

Prods him for content RE: the fake slip. Null look.
Lists him as orange on his Day 1 GTH rainbow. I am not seeing a traceable progression of thoughts from apparent town read to GTH scum read but, as always, players are allowed to change their minds. I would like to hear more about why Marmot wound up where he did on this list.
This is an interesting development. In Jay's attempt to interpret the Nacho kill, he comes up with a list of players he'd count as unlikely to pull the trigger on nacho. Metalmarsh is included in this list. I've also noted what appear to be some soft defenses of Metalmarsh earlier in the game. He also shares this PoE list earlier:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Bad Guys R In Here:

Quin
Long Con
JOH
DrWilgy
Sorsha
speedchuck
Scotty
Elohcin
DFaraday
Dyslexicon
Nachomamma

Absent from this list is metalmarsh. So we have some precedent for Jay appearing to read Metalmarsh as not scum, which generally translates to "town".

But then later we get this: Everybody who he has no reason to read as town was also on his PoE list earlier... except for Metalmarsh, who had apparently been a town read at the time. But now he suddenly has "no reason at all" to town read him. This is an interesting development. Has anyone seen my town read on Jay? I seem to have lost it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:Marmot

At the moment I see no compelling reasons to trust or suspect Marmot. I can confirm that he's in three games at once so I am willing to give him a break for being quieter. His posts give me no indication of anything.

The nullest of null reads.

This was a less encouraging investigation than I anticipated. There's also a few interesting posts coming from metalmarsh in this pairing that I'll get into in a separate post. But for now my town read on Jay is suspended until further notice.

insertnamehere interactions with/about metalmarsh: Jokingly pledges support for the Marmot on Day 0, later reveals he voted to give him the map (here) while initiating his skepticism of the other map claimers. The biggest point working in favor of INH today is that his support of metalmarsh from the start of the game through the end of yesterday seems too obvious to be that of two scum teammates. It started right away (with the map vote, not that first post) and never went away. I prodded him on this at some point yesterday, asking if there was any tangible reason why INH would be so supportive of metalmarsh all game long. I briefly considered that they were town BTSC partners. We know that was not the case now. I forget how INH responded to me earlier, if at all. I suppose I'll find out soon enough.

There are several other posts where INH supports Metalmarsh in the whole map business. I'll leave them out of here for the sake of keeping it somewhat short. After that, there's some soft Marmot defense sprinkled all over his big fat Dizzy case.
First, this answers my question of how he responded to my question. My god, I even ask myself questions! I have a problem. His defense takes on a different tone in this post. It's no longer related to map votes or the sort of indirect defense that was in his Dizzy case earlier. This is direct and personal defense of metalmarsh. "If MM were here right now defending himself, I doubt he'd be in the lead." This reads almost paranoid and frantic. I still am on the side that this is too obvious to be scummate defense, but in this particular post I am catching a whiff of a player who is afraid that he's watching a teammate get taken down.

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:I'm assuming MM is in the lead, right?

How does this make you feel?

You're like a therapist who speaks solely in leading questions, Sloonei.

It makes me feel nervous, but maybe that's just childhood trauma rearing its ugly head once again.

Playfully dodges my question a little but also admits to nervousness (?) about the impending marmot doom.

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sorry Sloonei, that question was directed towards nutella. I didn't catch that portion of her post until you highlighted it.

Linki: I haven't been around the last 5 hours, so I missed that.

Unvote

Vote Lynch Dizzy

I don't actually want to lynch Sloonei.

YEAH WELL... uh

dude wtf

Then he yells at me for voting to lynch the bad guy. Interesting.

On one side of the coin, this is the type of defense that's too bold and too obvious to be taken as two scum partners, and INH is a player who's not afraid to take strong stances on things. On the other side, his support of metalmarsh was unwavering from Day 0 through Day 2. I never saw a substantial reason for INH to trust him besides the negation of the case which eventually sprouted up against him. Prior to that he trusted him for no discernible reason.

Marmot interactions with/about INH: Counter argument to INH's suspicion of the map claimers. I get no strong reads from this, I could see it being teammate interaction just as easily as not.

Likes an INH post (but was never going to vote for him anyway). The support cuts both ways, it seems. This gives me a vibe of a scum player pocketing a townie who's already established as being on their side. So decent look for INH.
And this. Not really a meaningful interaction, just lazily prodding nutella towards the end of the day. This might be the scummiest post in metalmarsh's ISO, but that's irrelevant now (except to say that nutella is hella town).

Yeah, I do not know. I am still inclined to say that INH's strong defense of metalmarsh all day long is too bold to be the play of baddie teammates, but I also cannot let him slip by without any skepticism. So I'll need INH to give us some updated thoughts on the game, of course, and maybe explain what it was that he saw in metalmarsh.

There is more to come, but doing a cursory glance through marmot's posts to get started and I found exactly 1 mention of Fredwood. It's the same post I pulled out earlier:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

Quin wrote:I just said exactly why this isn't damning for Fred.

This looks like a good time to ISO Fredwood, I think. Who wants to volunteer? I've got marmot things going on.

EBWOP

Scotty wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I also have to ask Scotty to elaborate on his scum read against me.

Hi.

In light of rereading the last 7 pages of the EoD, you made bold decisions to turn the tide against Mm and onto me. Speed followed you around like a puppy.

In a way, that makes Speed look worse than you, but I'm not gonna lie: both of you made a joint effort to steer that lynch away from Mm from my perusal and when there was significant backlash to my lynch, only then did you both basically give up on me and seal the fate for MM.

I'd say you guys are looking pretty solidly bad as potential savers for MM.

You think I was steering things? That's remarkable. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. A reminder once again that I had just subbed into this game during Day 2.

I know about the last point. You keep bringing that up.

I keep bringing it up because none of my accusers seem to acknowledge it. Quin and others earlier accused me of being non-committal, to which I say: how else should I have been? You seem to be accusing me of some sort of calculated scum ploy, to which I say: I'm flattered, but that's not something I could have pulled off. I just got here, after all.

Yes. There were 4 votes parked on MM 4 hours before EoD: after more discussion with yourself, you decided to switch to me, followed by 3 other sycophants. People were following you whether or want to admit it or not. You have a habit of leading discussion, which is awesome by itself, but the discussion quickly turned towards ambiguity towards the end when people weren't biting on y'all's calls for my lynching due to my supposed "contradiction".

I did not get the sense that I was leading anything. I am not saying that it did not happen, but I was singularly focused on determining my vote. I had no time to worry about persuading anyone else to come along with me. If anyone followed me, that was entirely on them and I was blissfully unaware of the power I held.

Don't play victim here- "I had absolutely no idea what I was doing" you had a enough of a disposition to feel confident in your read of me, even though, as you continually said, you hadn't fully caught up.
Even you yourself said you played sloppily the EoD. I don't owe you results of my night action, and I certainly don't accept you trying to abstain from responsibility of he thread.

On the flip side, I didn't do shit to steer the thread, because I was barely around. Can you agree with that?

I am not trying to play the victim, I am just trying to represent myself as honestly as I can. I did play sloppily. I absolutely did. If you were my strongest scum read and you are as glaringly obviously town as you say you are, that should be a testament to my sloppy play. I was all over the place because I had no idea what I was doing because, again, I just subbed into this game on Day 2 and had less than 48 hours to get caught up and cast a vote. I am repeatedly bringing these things up because they are essential to reading my behavior yesterday. All I was trying to do was figure out what the hell was going on. I took a very fortuitous shot in the dark at the last moment and now I'm receiving heat for it. Sometimes things go right in this game. The sky is not always falling.

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:A quick note before I dive into this marmot analysis: If we are to believe Golden's misdirect claim, and if we assume Jay is town (which I am going to do), then I am inclined to think that Golden's results reflect poorly on Fredwood. If the scum misdirector is targeting town JaggedJimmyJay, I would assume part of his motive is to deflect any potentially beneficial night actions (item deliveries, protection, etc.) onto a teammate. This requires a bit of a leap and I'm not willing to conclude anything from it, but I see it as enough reason to at least begin to speculate about Freddy.

Alternatively, Marmot redirected night actions away from ScummedScummyScay so that he couldn't be ID'd by any cops.

What about investigations? Pretty key role you left out.

read the sentence at the bottom.

No, this is still along the lines of a town 3J. If I'm the cop, 3J is among one of the highest priorities for a cop check. Redirecting said investigation to a scum Fredwood would be a big dumdum.

Good point. I suppose I just have a hard time understanding why scum metalmarsh redirects things from town Jay onto another townie.

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:A quick note before I dive into this marmot analysis: If we are to believe Golden's misdirect claim, and if we assume Jay is town (which I am going to do), then I am inclined to think that Golden's results reflect poorly on Fredwood. If the scum misdirector is targeting town JaggedJimmyJay, I would assume part of his motive is to deflect any potentially beneficial night actions (item deliveries, protection, etc.) onto a teammate. This requires a bit of a leap and I'm not willing to conclude anything from it, but I see it as enough reason to at least begin to speculate about Freddy.

Alternatively, Marmot redirected night actions away from ScummedScummyScay so that he couldn't be ID'd by any cops.

What about investigations? Pretty key role you left out.

read the sentence at the bottom.

nutella wrote:

Sloonei wrote:A quick note before I dive into this marmot analysis: If we are to believe Golden's misdirect claim, and if we assume Jay is town (which I am going to do), then I am inclined to think that Golden's results reflect poorly on Fredwood. If the scum misdirector is targeting town JaggedJimmyJay, I would assume part of his motive is to deflect any potentially beneficial night actions (item deliveries, protection, etc.) onto a teammate. This requires a bit of a leap and I'm not willing to conclude anything from it, but I see it as enough reason to at least begin to speculate about Freddy.

Alternatively, Marmot redirected night actions away from ScummedScummyScay so that he couldn't be ID'd by any cops.

I'm inclined to agree with this (the hypothesis that Marmot wanted things intended for JJJ to go to his teamie Fred and vice versa).

I should also note that we don't know whether or not he's the only misdirector in the game.

Scotty wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Scotty wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I also have to ask Scotty to elaborate on his scum read against me.

Hi.

In light of rereading the last 7 pages of the EoD, you made bold decisions to turn the tide against Mm and onto me. Speed followed you around like a puppy.

In a way, that makes Speed look worse than you, but I'm not gonna lie: both of you made a joint effort to steer that lynch away from Mm from my perusal and when there was significant backlash to my lynch, only then did you both basically give up on me and seal the fate for MM.

I'd say you guys are looking pretty solidly bad as potential savers for MM.

You think I was steering things? That's remarkable. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. A reminder once again that I had just subbed into this game during Day 2.

I know about the last point. You keep bringing that up.

I keep bringing it up because none of my accusers seem to acknowledge it. Quin and others earlier accused me of being non-committal, to which I say: how else should I have been? You seem to be accusing me of some sort of calculated scum ploy, to which I say: I'm flattered, but that's not something I could have pulled off. I just got here, after all.

Yes. There were 4 votes parked on MM 4 hours before EoD: after more discussion with yourself, you decided to switch to me, followed by 3 other sycophants. People were following you whether or want to admit it or not. You have a habit of leading discussion, which is awesome by itself, but the discussion quickly turned towards ambiguity towards the end when people weren't biting on y'all's calls for my lynching due to my supposed "contradiction".[/quote]I did not get the sense that I was leading anything. I am not saying that it did not happen, but I was singularly focused on determining my vote. I had no time to worry about persuading anyone else to come along with me. If anyone followed me, that was entirely on them and I was blissfully unaware of the power I held.

Don't play victim here- "I had absolutely no idea what I was doing" you had a enough of a disposition to feel confident in your read of me, even though, as you continually said, you hadn't fully caught up.
Even you yourself said you played sloppily the EoD. I don't owe you results of my night action, and I certainly don't accept you trying to abstain from responsibility of he thread.

On the flip side, I didn't do shit to steer the thread, because I was barely around. Can you agree with that?

I am not trying to play the victim, I am just trying to represent myself as honestly as I can. I did play sloppily. I absolutely did. If you were my strongest scum read and you are as glaringly obviously town as you say you are, that should be a testament to my sloppy play. I was all over the place because I had no idea what I was doing because, again, I just subbed into this game on Day 2 and had less than 48 hours to get caught up and cast a vote. I am repeatedly bringing these things up because they are essential to reading my behavior yesterday. All I was trying to do was figure out what the hell was going on. I took a very fortuitous shot in the dark at the last moment and now I'm receiving heat for it. Sometimes things go right in this game. The sky is not always falling.

A quick note before I dive into this marmot analysis: If we are to believe Golden's misdirect claim, and if we assume Jay is town (which I am going to do), then I am inclined to think that Golden's results reflect poorly on Fredwood. If the scum misdirector is targeting town JaggedJimmyJay, I would assume part of his motive is to deflect any potentially beneficial night actions (item deliveries, protection, etc.) onto a teammate. This requires a bit of a leap and I'm not willing to conclude anything from it, but I see it as enough reason to at least begin to speculate about Freddy.

Alternatively, Marmot redirected night actions away from ScummedScummyScay so that he couldn't be ID'd by any cops.

Scotty wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I also have to ask Scotty to elaborate on his scum read against me.

Hi.

In light of rereading the last 7 pages of the EoD, you made bold decisions to turn the tide against Mm and onto me. Speed followed you around like a puppy.

In a way, that makes Speed look worse than you, but I'm not gonna lie: both of you made a joint effort to steer that lynch away from Mm from my perusal and when there was significant backlash to my lynch, only then did you both basically give up on me and seal the fate for MM.

I'd say you guys are looking pretty solidly bad as potential savers for MM.

You think I was steering things? That's remarkable. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. A reminder once again that I had just subbed into this game during Day 2.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:*checks for thorough interactive analyses*

Check back in two hours or so, I just got home from work and need to jog.

Long Con wrote:Sloonei, you defended Dyslexicon multiple times- why so sure she's Civ?

I would not say that I defended Dyslexicon. I was completely unsure who I was going to vote for all day yesterday and I had to figure it out on the fly. I was probing INH and Quin about their cases against Dizzy and responded with my thoughts. There were parts of the case I agreed with and I said so, but there were also parts of the case I disagreed with, and I said so. There was no defense at all, that was just me trying to figure out what to do.

It's interesting that you've labeled my behavior as a defense of Dyslexicon, whereas Quin came out and attacked me today because he believes my posts indicate I was suspicious of Dyslexicon.

I also have to ask Scotty to elaborate on his scum read against me.

To be fair, I don't think speedchuck should be written off as a suspect just because of his vote. He'd put himself in the "any lynch is better than no lynch" corner, and when things shook out at the end metalmarsh was the only viable option. His only options were to do nothing and look awful, or hammer the marmot.

Scotty, you have named two suspects (that I've seen) today: me and speedchuck. The two people who hammered on metalmarsh, confirmed scum, yesterday were me and speedchuck. Just an observation. What do you think of this?

I feel that this push against me is borderline anti-town (not necessarily an accusation that those pushing it are anti-town or even wrong to do so). We just lynched a mafia member, and so far most of the attention has been squarely focused on a player who was essential to getting the mafia member lynched. I don't care how much tinfoil you have, that is backwards town play. Look at all the people who were trying to lynch someone other than metalmarsh, then go ahead and lay out all your tinfoil.

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Yes. I think there's something to be said there. I won't ever take credit for having metalmarsh pegged or being even remotely confident in my vote at the time. But, in the end, I helped lynch a member of the mafia team, while Jackofhearts (and you) were positioned opposite to the scum lynch. Simple optics says that's bad for you guys.

No, you'll just take credit for being the last person to want to lynch metalmarsh, jumping on him literally seconds before the EoD.

You could see how doing that, and then bringing out the "holier-than-thou" routine can stink to high heaven, right?

Maybe. But I have some validation here, and from my perspective I have to be wary of all the people who were working the thread toward a non-metalmarsh lynch. That is basic mafia. Do you think my actions at the end of the day were scum-motivated

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

*waves hand dismissively*

What were you doing at the end of the day yesterday? You voted for Scotty and then just kinda stuck around the thread not doing much.

Exactly 15 min before thread lock, after ~4 straight linki refreshes...

JoH: I read Scotty scum, Diz town and I can't read Marmot or Eloh for crap. If anyone has a good argument, give it now.

Then a few people (you included) switch without providing reasoning at all and the thread is locked.

What was I supposed to do? Nothing happened that could have changed my opinion and there was no time for extra analysis.

Getting annoyed with your framing.

You could have weighed in more. But I just went back and looked. Your Scotty vote came much closer to the deadline than I remembered it (probably because I chucked like 50 posts into the thread in those 15 minutes. I was remembering it as if you had cast your vote a half hour or so before the day ended, and then say in silence as the rest of us tried to figure stuff out.

You still are someone who stands out for the simple fact that you are not on the metalmarsh bandwagon. That in itself is not suspicious, but it certainly warrants some attention, wouldn't you say?

And you've also come out swinging against one of the people responsible for lynching the dead scum player yesterday. Do you think we should all just overlook this reality?

Playing the "I was right, you were wrong, so shut up" card, eh?

Yes. I think there's something to be said there. I won't ever take credit for having metalmarsh pegged or being even remotely confident in my vote at the time. But, in the end, I helped lynch a member of the mafia team, while Jackofhearts (and you) were positioned opposite to the scum lynch. Simple optics says that's bad for you guys.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

*waves hand dismissively*

What were you doing at the end of the day yesterday? You voted for Scotty and then just kinda stuck around the thread not doing much.

Exactly 15 min before thread lock, after ~4 straight linki refreshes...

JoH: I read Scotty scum, Diz town and I can't read Marmot or Eloh for crap. If anyone has a good argument, give it now.

Then a few people (you included) switch without providing reasoning at all and the thread is locked.

What was I supposed to do? Nothing happened that could have changed my opinion and there was no time for extra analysis.

Getting annoyed with your framing.

You could have weighed in more. But I just went back and looked. Your Scotty vote came much closer to the deadline than I remembered it (probably because I chucked like 50 posts into the thread in those 15 minutes. I was remembering it as if you had cast your vote a half hour or so before the day ended, and then say in silence as the rest of us tried to figure stuff out.

You still are someone who stands out for the simple fact that you are not on the metalmarsh bandwagon. That in itself is not suspicious, but it certainly warrants some attention, wouldn't you say?

And you've also come out swinging against one of the people responsible for lynching the dead scum player yesterday. Do you think we should all just overlook this reality?

Quin wrote:Something to throw out there is that Nacho might not have been the intended kill given marmots role flip.

I recall Golden mentioning his actual Night 1 target wasn't who he had initially targeted. Was that person Nacho?

This would require the mafia to redirect their own kill.

bumping this so INH can share his thoughts on it.

Sloonei wrote:insertnamehere provided a really interesting point as evidence against Dyslexicon at the end of the day. But I took interest in it not as evidence against Dyslexicon at all. Where INH sees Dyslexicon buddying with Golden, I see grounds for suspicion of Golden:

insertnamehere wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:Sometimes I feel that Golden acts like I'm confirmed town.

Not sure exactly what you're seeing or how you mean this, but I tend to act like everyone is town. Even when I suspect someone on one hand, I don't want to ignore their perspective on things on the other, in case I'm wrong. I think I'm much better at figuring out who is town than who is bad, so this also aids my hunting approach.

It's not for how you interact with me (actually thinking about it, I don't think we've interacted much? Hi.), but more so in your analysis of votes and wagons and how people are treating me, it seems like you assume that I'm town. Both with the reactions to my fakeslip and in regards to the wagon on me. I don't know what this means, it's just a feeling I had and I wrote it out.

If it's accurate that Golden is "assuming" Dyslexicon to be town, it could be because Golden knows Dyslexicon is town and so is not treating them with the same skepticism as everybody else. Scum Golden does not wish to push a fake case against town Dyslexicon and so is content with his town read and is not jumping on the things that all the paranoid townies are jumping on.
This is something I'd need Dyslexicon to comment on before I can be sure it's a legitimate cause for suspicion. Do you see this as a possibility, Dyslexicon?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

*waves hand dismissively*

What were you doing at the end of the day yesterday? You voted for Scotty and then just kinda stuck around the thread not doing much.

vote Jackofhearts for the time being. I need to go do something else. I'll probably continue popping in and out for a couple hours, but I won't be fully here.

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

Here's a post where he says some things about a lot of different people. Non-committal on Elohcin. That's a chin-scratcher. Then he likes Golden, Fredwood, Dyslexicon, and nutella. I feel very confident that nutella is town based on yesterday (she was the #1 factor that pushed me to vote for metalmarsh, for the record). I also feel good about Dyslexicon due to yesterday. I have no substantial read on Fredwood, and a vague creeping suspicion of Golden that hasn't gone away for a second since I got here.
Anyone have thoughts on Golden or Fredwood, or that Eloh waffle right there?

Ding dong.

is that the believable theory?

You're about halfway there.

Since the one thing we've not discussed yet is the actual reason I decided to vote for metalmarsh: a big part of it, like I said, was Nutella. She seemed very committed to her case against metalmarsh and her posts just oozed authenticity. She was not trying to sell the case, she was just telling us who her suspect was. It felt good to me. Combined with that, metalmarsh himself was just sitting on his hands while the rest of us were scrambling around. He did nothing to help build up the town read I had been developing on him. And then Scotty wasn't going to gain any traction, and I had decided I did not want to vote for Dyslexicon after much consideration. So I was left with metalmarsh, and nutella's conviction was enough to put me over.

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:@Marmot - Do you still think it was a legit slip? In which case, you should be voting me I guess? That theory is pretty much totally out of the question and I would've expected you to gain info about that also without looking at the other game. It's also not a matter of reading an entire game, it's one post in that game.

The other thing, alrlight *shrug*
Do you have more reads in this game? I know you're busy, but it would be very helpful to know where your head is at.

I dislike DrWilgy because he was a relative inactive Day 1.

I have no read on Elohcin, because there's just no content to judge. I will add a meta caveat, she tends to get more invested in a game when she is mafia. The most invested I've ever seen her was in Series of Unfortunate Events, in which we were mafia teammates.

From the more active participants, I like Golden. I also like Fredwood. I like your posts except for that one post. But I'm going to choose to read you as civilian for now. Nutella I also like.

I don't have much of an impression on the other players.

Here's a post where he says some things about a lot of different people. Non-committal on Elohcin. That's a chin-scratcher. Then he likes Golden, Fredwood, Dyslexicon, and nutella. I feel very confident that nutella is town based on yesterday (she was the #1 factor that pushed me to vote for metalmarsh, for the record). I also feel good about Dyslexicon due to yesterday. I have no substantial read on Fredwood, and a vague creeping suspicion of Golden that hasn't gone away for a second since I got here.
Anyone have thoughts on Golden or Fredwood, or that Eloh waffle right there?

Ding dong.

is that the believable theory?

insertnamehere wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sorry Sloonei, that question was directed towards nutella. I didn't catch that portion of her post until you highlighted it.

Linki: I haven't been around the last 5 hours, so I missed that.

Unvote

Vote Lynch Dizzy

I don't actually want to lynch Sloonei.

YEAH WELL... uh

dude wtf

wtf indeed.

Quin wrote:A belated greetings to juliets, please be town.

I had already forgotten that juliets is here now. This is exciting news.

And I don't usually give "RIP" posts, but RIP Silver Lantern. I hope to play many more games with you in the future.