The Syndicate

Golden wrote:My day today is a write off. The poll end time is 45 minutes before a deadline I've been working towards for the last several weeks, and I am unlikely to have spare time before then.

I was hoping for something more clear cut. It's not clear cut right now. This is what I don't like about changeable votes... I really can't control how people will move over the hours that I'm not here. Hopefully I'll find time to pop in again later.

In the mean time, I'm personally feeling very firm about DF being my preference.

If you have time, I would really appreciate some input on metalmarsh. I know you've said that you're more inclined to go with DF than MM today, but I'm a bit unclear on why that is the case. I will do everything in my power to ensure that one of the two of them is lynched today, but at the moment I am not sure which I prefer.

I'm putting my vote back on Metalmarsh until I can be convinced that he's not bad. We now have a three-way tie.

I have a nagging suspicion that metalmarsh, and not dfaraday, is the one we want. Is there a case to be made for metalmarsh being civ? I'd be much more interested in that than any case against him.

Spacedaisy wrote:It should come as no surprise that I voted MM. There is only one person aside from myself that I trust in this game. I am considering DFaraday as a lynch possibility, but at the moment I am leaving my vote on MM. I don't buy his role claim and its because I know Dom, he hates that kind of stuff. I can't imagine him allowing to role claim like that. I only feel more certain of MM being bad. I have a sneaking suspicion about it but I want to keep it under my hat at the moment until I can decide if I believe it or not...

Right now I trust almost no one.

I am not 100% sure what you are referencing with regards to mm's roleclaim, but it's worth mentioning that Cobalt got away with pretty bluntly stating the nature of his role when he was in danger of being lynched, and Dom said this was perfectly fine. Doesn't mean Metalmarsh is necessarily telling the truth, but it's a thing.

Also, what's that unfinished thought at the end of your post, mm?

Spacedaisy wrote:I joined this game to help the host and players have a better experience, not because I am dying to play mafia. I have a lot on my plate right now, so I have no intention of going back and reading what happened before I joined. I realize this makes me a target for manipulative cases, so if you are civ and you see one being presented you better speak up. I found the case on Hedge to be compelling because based on voting behavior she appeared to be a distancing teammate of a lynched baddie. I feel no need to apologize for my vote.

I trust golden because what I see from him is nothing like what I just saw from him as my baddie teammate in guess who. I feel very confident he is civ.

Now, MM is looking shady as shit to me right now. He presents a case in hopes someone will come in and debunk it? He voted for her though... Then the first chance he gets he is jumping on me, the easiest target in this game right now? You are looking really opportunistic to me.

Someone want to give me a bullet point overview of why they suspect Splints?

this post does not make her look too good, but it would look a lot worse if she had kept to her word and stayed (relatively) unengaged. After making this post, she seems to have jumped right into thijgs and started reading back all willy-nilly.

I would probably be better off if I took a closer look at spacedaisy.

Scotty wrote:

Sloonei wrote:pretty sure that takes the cake for largest phone post i've ever made

Looks pretty average to me

i swear most of my huge posts were submitted from my laptop!

DFaraday wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Why don't you find Epi 2 suspicious, DFaraday?

He suspects the same people as I do, and he seems genuine enough.

This post is also bugging me when I come back to it. Epi seemed genuine? Really?

Correction in my big DFaraday post above: when i'm discussing his ninja read and i reference a post that is "in the previous spoiler", the post i'm actually referencing is the "very light" hyperlink post beneath the spoiler, not the post contained in the spoiler.

I mean it would be a shame, but if we could somehow spin this situation into a milkshake I won't complain.

Does anyone have another suspect they think we should be looking at today? Or maybe someone has a strong #2 after faraday? I'm feeling good about this case, but i haven't been right the previous two days, plus we've still got a bunch of time left. It would be a shake to continue letting that go to waste.

As I just mentioned, one of my most prevalent reasons for suspecting dfaraday this game has been the lack of any really strong town tells, with all of his positive content being the sort of thing(s) that is/are very easy for baddies to fake. I think I highlighted a few such examples an earlier ISO that's probably buried in my posts now. I am on my phone right now and don't feel like dragging up tons of examples, but I can do it if people wish for me to substantiate this suspicion any further. That, combined with simple process of elimination, make him a worthy suspect. I'm still looking for other things, and here are some posts that stand out to me: I could see his comments about sig being an attempt at being unconventional in trying to seem like a townie, where he denies himself the opportunity to support the previous day's successful baddie lynch. This is only a minor point though, and the things that really grabbed my eye were the very opportunistic way he seized onto this fingersplints case (I recall it being stated by someone else earlier, FZ I think, in direct response to a question I had asked), Faraday piggybacks on a case that looked it was just starting to get rolling without needing to substantiate the suspicion in any way. This bugs me. Also the way he says he "feels" pinged by it rather than saying "I am pinged" implies there is a certain amount of distance between the ping and his honest self. Something about the language there seems unnatural to me.
Also not liking his assessment of the Golden/LC thing. He's very quick to dismiss them both as "probable civs", which I don't feel lines up with things in the thread or DFaraday's post history specifically.
The first thing that stands out to me here is the last bit. He seems very self-conscious of his own playstyle, almost nervously so. After listing exactly three "theories" he makes note of this and bows out for a while. When he returns, the two other reads he offers are very light and do nothing to inspire confidence. This all reminds me of myself in the ongoing Watchmen game, where I admit to being hyper-aware of my own posts and how they might be perceived. I can sense some of this leaking through in this post from DFaraday.
I am also not a fan of the way he tries to spin some negativity against splints for not being on any of the Lc bandwagons without acknowledging that he himself had been reluctant to read LC as scum, as I highlighted above, and I don't recall him ever voting for LC either. This alone is not a damning piece of evidence, but for him to call out splints for it whild ignoring his own guilt and hypocrisy in the matter is not doing him any favors.
He also mentions Long Con in all three of these reads. Make of that what you will.
The progression of his ninja read here (as well as the post in the spoiler above this one) feels a bit overwrought, waffley, frantic, and contains some hints of backtracking on the words he's said. In the first post (previous spoiler) he lists one reason to suspect ninja and then, oddly, another reason not to suspect her. He then offers her some light support but goes back to saying she's a suspect, and then continues offering stronger support for a little while until he's called ot for doing so by SVS, at which point he backs off and says he's never been "pro-Ninja". The toe of this post seems a bit more defensive than it should be, and I do not like the way he doesn't own his read of ninja.

I'll also add that a lot of his technicolor responses to Jay's ISO read as shaky to me, but in the interest of conserving space and time, I'll not go over them here. If anyone would like me to, I can. Instead I encourage others to look at them themselves and make their own judgment calls.

One question I can ask about DFaraday, for those who are familiar with him, is about his self-assessment at the end of his big long response to Jay's big long ISO (the very last magenta bit at the end of the post). He says he plays "intuitively and defensively". Is this something others can agree with?
I'd also add that, even if this is true, these things are (by his own admission, implicitly) extremely easy behaviors to fake as a bad guy. This was my earliest reason for suspecting DFaraday going back to the beginning of thr game, and it still stands now. Pretty much all the townie points in his favor are things that are easily fabricated.

S~V~S wrote:That is very possible re which team can recruit. But I am still finding this whole thing hard to swallow. I am looking to brainstorm possibilities (admittedly almost impossible in a game with most roles basically secret).

I am not a fan of unequivocally ruling things out when all possibilities are necessarily unknown via vague/secret roles. I am also going to read up on what the case on Faraday is other than blendiness. If it is only blendiness, I won't be voting for him.

I've been very lazy in constructing my case against him, but there's definitely more to it than that. I can try to pull some things up.

I appreciate your skepticism.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Golden wrote:SVS, I think this probably an agree to disagree in terms of whether it would be role hinting, but putting that aside I would note that there is pretty decent evidence that there isn't another recruit out there.

We know they were recruited by LC, who died after only three nights and could recruit on odd nights only - giving him exactly two opportunities. He also could only recruit three specific roles. I calculate the odds of him successfully hitting would be 0.08%. Add to that, we had specific evidence in the night post of LC recruiting BR (the two hooded figures shaking hands on night three).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think LC could only recruit one player, but there were three roles who were recruitable.

Are we allowed to name those three roles in the thread?

S~V~S wrote:How do you know the team other than LC's did or did not have something similar? Like I said, i am having problems accepting this as something Ninja would do.

My thinking this whole game has been that only Team Wildhorn was able to recruit because they started the game with one fewer member than Team Webber, and the recruitment/corruption was a way of balancing that. Do we really even know what "corruption" entails in this game?

What were the roles that were mentioned along with that corruption role?

I think the singer should be obvious at this point.

Why are you suspicious of niju and/or mm, splints?

I still feel like one of the inactives is scum, and I really don't know what we're supposed to do about that. The only option is to blindly lynch one of them and hope we're right.
I've read over DFaraday's posts and feel like there is a strong case to be made against him. I'll make a big post when i'm on my laptop.

Tonight's discussion has got me feeling very confident about a DFaradat lynch. I would like it if everyone could offer some comment on him today. I'll do a thorough casing of him tomorrow when I can. However, it would he utterly silly to end the discussion and settle this early in the day. All names are still on the table, but I've now got a clear top suspect. I do not speak for everyone.

Sorry to make this post without substantiating my suspicion first, DFaraday.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Looking back, fingersplints had multiple posts throughout Night 4, the night that Team Wildhorn missed there first kill.

On the other hand, DFaraday did not have any posts Night 4.

JJ wouldn't be a bad kill from the perspective of DF.

It kinda changes your theory though. You had DF listed as the Phantom and fingersplints listed as B&C. I'm curious to hear your reasoning. Is it vote records?

If anything, I think it would be the other way around. There is a noticeable trend among the nightkills.

Team Webber has nightkilled Epignosis, Sloonei, FZ., timmer, Scotty, and Epignosis 2.0. All solid mafia players who contribute consistently and don't miss votes.

Team Longhorn has nightkilled Golden, Bass_the_Clever, Sloonei, Canucklehead, and JaggedJimmyJay. A couple solid choices, but Bass and Canucklehead are both much quieter players, making for odder nightkill choices.

So to me, I think whoever is making the nightkills selections for Team Wildhorn is not paying attention as much as the player from Team Webber. Factor in the 1 or 2 missed nightkills, and the theory gets a little more support.

i'm not sure i agree with this assessment. There could be any number of explanations for all of these nightkills. The Bass kill attempt could have been an attempt to cause confusion or (perhaps) a reidrection, if such a thing exists in this game, or something else. Canucklehead was a widely accepted town read from what I remember of my time earlier in the game, so it's possible that peron just wanted to get her out of the way on a night where they thought she'd be a safe kill and a more obvious choice would likely be protected.

niju has been a pretty accepted town read by everyone. DFaraday does not seem to realize this, and coincidentally, niju is still alive.

i don't seem to realize this either :o

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm also only 300 posts behind you two.

we better lynch you before you catch up.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Looking back, fingersplints had multiple posts throughout Night 4, the night that Team Wildhorn missed there first kill.

On the other hand, DFaraday did not have any posts Night 4.

JJ wouldn't be a bad kill from the perspective of DF.

It kinda changes your theory though. You had DF listed as the Phantom and fingersplints listed as B&C. I'm curious to hear your reasoning. Is it vote records?

If anything, I think it would be the other way around. There is a noticeable trend among the nightkills.

Team Webber has nightkilled Epignosis, Sloonei, FZ., timmer, Scotty, and Epignosis 2.0. All solid mafia players who contribute consistently and don't miss votes.

Team Longhorn has nightkilled Golden, Bass_the_Clever, Sloonei, Canucklehead, and JaggedJimmyJay. A couple solid choices, but Bass and Canucklehead are both much quieter players, making for odder nightkill choices.

So to me, I think whoever is making the nightkills selections for Team Wildhorn is not paying attention as much as the player from Team Webber. Factor in the 1 or 2 missed nightkills, and the theory gets a little more support.

i'm not sure i agree with this assessment. There could be any number of explanations for all of these nightkills. The Bass kill attempt could have been an attempt to cause confusion or (perhaps) a reidrection, if such a thing exists in this game, or something else. Canucklehead was a widely accepted town read from what I remember of my time earlier in the game, so it's possible that peron just wanted to get her out of the way on a night where they thought she'd be a safe kill and a more obvious choice would likely be protected.

I put my vote on dfaraday a while ago but did not announce it, this is just me doing that.

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Looking back, fingersplints had multiple posts throughout Night 4, the night that Team Wildhorn missed there first kill.

On the other hand, DFaraday did not have any posts Night 4.

JJ wouldn't be a bad kill from the perspective of DF.

To be fair, he wouldn't have been a bad kill from anyone's perspective.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sloonei, should we assume it was Bonnie & Clyde though? Every other even night kill (and the odd Night 5) has been via gunshot or car.

I like the theory of natural causes better.

It is also lacking the usual evidence of being Bonnie & Clyde's doing, yes. If I had to pick a side, I'd say I'm leaning toward your theory being true, but I'm too close to 50/50 to be sure of it.

Dom's posts from Nigh 8 The announcement is lacking the usual flavor text that has been accompanying the nightkills, but by that measure it would seem like Scotty just dropped dead of natural causes. That Dom corrected a "spreadsheet error" to bring him back could just suggest that he was meant to be protected somehow but that Dom forget to mark it down at first. It's a good hypothesis that this was a kill attempted by another source, but there is no proof of it, and so I am reluctant to accept it as truth.

Golden wrote:I don't feel the need for a consensus because I had B & C narrowed down to JJ and splints and now one is dead.

I'm pretty sure its splints.

Like, really

Phantom: DF or MM
B & C: splints

I'd call it 95% sure.

I understand that Phantom kills tonight, but if this is the case then why not go for splints today?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:night 8 should have been a Bonnie & Clyde kill, but by your estimation B&C failed to submit a nightkill. Theoretically, who are all the people that would not have been active that night? I could figure this out easily on my own, but I assume you've got the answer ready at hand

I don't have it handy. I just have the Day 8 votes handy. I can look it up though.

Of the living players, only Golden, myself, nijukyugou, and S~V~S made the vote. Devin and Gumshoe were obviously inactive. Spacedaisy had not yet replaced the inactive DREAM. DFaraday and fingersplints both missed the vote, and Sloonei was still dead.


I think before we take this further, we need to figure out a consensus on the Night 8 kill. I still think it was not Team Wildhorn, but I don't know who it would have been.

@DOM: Who performed the nightkill on Night 8. Are we permitted to learn this?

I don't know, and anything I could offer would be entirely speculative. I'm still not familiar enough typical game mechanics here to really make any sort of educated guess about what went on.
For the record, kill reveals are pretty uniform across every game on RYM (as some of you may have already noticed). The sort of flavor text featured in games here is totally new to me.

Also, does anyone have any theories they want to suggest about why/how certain roles have been revealed? I assume those cryptic early game PMs had something to do with a couple of them, but not all.

Golden wrote:

Sloonei wrote:When did the insanifier stop being a thing? Are we assuming that was Jekyll & Hyde?

Given we know that role, it isn't. Probably Cats (ie G-Man). After all, Dom probably considers that musical to be nonsense

Is it unlikely that the role was only partially revealed to us?
This is not a major point, but

When did the insanifier stop being a thing? Are we assuming that was Jekyll & Hyde?

For people who know musicals: which role(s) seem like they could be possible matches for the silencer? I ask because why not?

I am not singling you out per se, dfaraday, but your silence is the most suspicious of that bunch imo, for reasons i highlighted in my early ISO of you. Daisy and SVS are also unique cases.
I feel like splints has been an easy target all game, and am currently leaning slightly town on her.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Here is an updated summary of the nightkills.

Night 1 - Phantom of the Opera (Team Webber) nightkills Epignosis.
Night 2 - Bonnie & Clyde (Team Wildhorn) nightkills Golden. It was later revealed that the nightkill actually failed, and Golden was brought back.
Night 3 - Starlight Express (Team Webber) nightkills Sloonei, but Sloonei survives.
Night 4 - Nobody was nightkilled. There is no mention of a failed kill attempt either, so no kill from Team Wildhorn.
Night 5 - Phantom of the Opera (Team Webber) nightkills FZ. Bonnie & Clyde nightkills Bass_the_Clever, but Bass survives.
Night 6 - Bonnie & Clyde (Team Wildhorn) nightkills Soonei.
Night 7 - Phantom of the Opera (Team Webber) nightkills timmer.
Night 8 - An unknown force nightkills Scotty. It is later revealed that Scotty should actually not have died. No kill from Team Wildhorn?
Night 9 - Phantom of the Opera (Team Webber) nightkills Scotty.
Night 10 - Bonnie & Clyde (Team Wildhorn) nightkills Canucklehead. Sloonei is rezzed.
Night 11 - Phantom of the Opera (Team Webber) nightkills Epignosis.
Night 12 - Bonnie & Clyde (Team Wildhorn) nightkills JaggedJimmyJay.

night 8 should have been a Bonnie & Clyde kill, but by your estimation B&C failed to submit a nightkill. Theoretically, who are all the people that would not have been active that night? I could figure this out easily on my own, but I assume you've got the answer ready at hand

Golden wrote:Put it this way - give me any other name and I'll tell you why it isn't them.

The only other person I feel can fit at this stage is MM, so it's just a matter of whether or not anyone finds his role hint believable.

For the sake of discussion, why not share the reasons why it's not everyone else?

I'd like hear why you think Faraday is Phantom, golden, if it's something you can elaborate on.

I agree with what you have had to say about niju's role.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm right here. Reevaluate me now.

Who's getting your vote?

DFaraday wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I want to be asked questions about things. Does anybody have questions for me?
is anybody here at all? I'll take up this whole dang page.

I have a question (the same one I keep asking everyone): Why me?

Voting Splints for now, will evaluate MM in the morning.

The general answer is that you're too quiet. That may not be entirely fair given that it's just your style, but in a game we're running out of options, you would have to admit that the guy who's been quietly floating by the whole time deserves to be scrutinized a bit more closely. I have not looked at your posts too much since my return and that is something I will need to do tomorrow.
Why splints and why metalmarsh? Why not SVS?

Heiots wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I want to be asked questions about things. Does anybody have questions for me?
is anybody here at all? I'll take up this whole dang page.

Why is the pepper shaker happy?

It's paprika!

Scotty wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I want to be asked questions about things. Does anybody have questions for me?
is anybody here at all? I'll take up this whole dang page.

Oo oo me me! I have a question!
How does it feel to be alive right now???

my tummy hurts

I want to be asked questions about things. Does anybody have questions for me?
is anybody here at all? I'll take up this whole dang page.

Same as always, I encourage everyone to vote their top suspect as soon as they can on days with changeable votes. Let's see where the heaviest concentration is focused.
DFaraday is my #2 after Metalmarsh.

It also does not escape me that some scum players could have been nightkilled at some point during this game. I am not going to operate under that assumption, but it's a possibility and it is in my mind.

I hope we are all a bit more active than we have been during the night. I'm still busy myself, but I'd like nothing more than to see things turn around here.
My inclination right now is to put a vote on Metalmarsh. I hope we have changeable votes. I assume we will.

That bastard just wanted to get out of having to answer my questions!

three posts is heavy lifting at this stage in the game.