The Syndicate

Soneji wrote:If the vig was blocked they couldn't also be killed, jailkeeper acts as a doctor protect+RB

There is absolutely no way we do a hammer when we have a full weekend long day phase.

two the second line Yes that is my point! Zebra calling for another hammer is scummy as hell.

True, but you can't double target so wouldn't they have killed the vig after jailkeeping them? Or actually wait nevermind since if we are in that world vig killed N1 and N2 blocked N3 so that means if this is true the mafia will kill the vig N4.
I still doubt the vig killed Silver/Epi though.

Since Zebra isn't in danger of getting hammered atm, but I am.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm going to UNVOTE before some fool (or scum) decides to come in and hammer vote at a bad time.

I'd love to policy lynch zebra, but I don't know if that's our best course of action.

What about everything else she has done? And her calling for a hammer vote on me

Especially since I've contributed more to this game and haven't pulled nearly as much stupid stuff as either of you.

Zebra hammering a civ yesterday with many hours left and again trying to hammer the phase and lynch the civs when we have a FULL WEEKEND TO GAME SOLVE.

ALSO KEEP IN MIND A HAMMER EXTENDS THE NIGHT PHASE, which is more time we can't post, and the mafia can plot. Hammer only hurts the civs.

Ika and Zebra are two of the mafia members.

ika wrote:
sig wrote:VOTE ZEBRA

There is no good civ reason to encourage a hammer after being the hammer which lynched a civ and pushed us to lynch or loose.

ONCE AGAIN THIS IS LYNCH OR LOOSE!

Zebra is trying to force a hammer in an attempt to win no civ should be advocating for a hammer this early into a phase especially WITHOUT A CASE
We have shown cases and you discretion them.

Not only that but the argument one needs a case is fallious. And your biggest thing is it's not lynch or lose its

3v6 so even if you are a mislynh (and I doubt it) it would be 3v4 after scum nk. And yes I'm accounting the town vig, all he needs to do is not shoot

Assuming they don't lynch no assumption of that, and a little math at 4/3 they mafia only needs ONE CIV to put a lynch down on a civ and all three can come in and hammer. I know how to win hammer games as mafia I've done it before that is what you do.

My biggest thing is the cases on me are bullshit as in there isn't one which hasn't been discounted by multiply people including known flipped civs.

Also what the fuck? I didn't think you were such a mafia noob but the underlined points to something only a noob or a mafia member would say. Your either a stupid civ or mafia. And the fact your willing to hammer and help to loose the game for the civs since I suspected you is dumb.

Soneji wrote:There was a second kill night 1 though. You just are making the assertion that it wasn't a town vig kill. If we do have a town vig they could have been blocked last night or abstained from killing.

True, I'm assuming a town vig wouldn't have shot Epi or Silver, and if they were blocked that the mafia would've killed them.

Zebra says she doesn't have any info I still believe she was hinting at having info as mafia, even though she is now claiming she didn't. If she doesn't have any info the fact she wants to lynch hammer me based on nothing is super scummy.

Look at who is voting for me, Ika with his fake slip case which never got traction since it was preposterous which many players including Marco who is now dead said was a bull case, Scotty who didn't answer my response to his case, his case in which he ignored almost all my posts and cherry picked a few to make me look bad, And Zebra who has no reason excpet that I suspected her which is basically the same as Ika's case.

VOTE ZEBRA

There is no good civ reason to encourage a hammer after being the hammer which lynched a civ and pushed us to lynch or loose.

ONCE AGAIN THIS IS LYNCH OR LOOSE!

Zebra is trying to force a hammer in an attempt to win no civ should be advocating for a hammer this early into a phase especially WITHOUT A CASE

a2thezebra wrote:VOTE sig

Let's hammer folks.

SO ZEBRA WANTS TO HAMMER AGAIN AFTER FAILING LAST HAMMER AND LYNCHING A CIV THIS IS CLASSIC SCUM STRATEGY.

DrWilgy wrote:Hi Golden. I'm not mafia. We should lynch Ji-san who was Red, followed by you and MP.

Soneji wrote:You do realize we are not in a set-up that has a cop, right Wilgy? You are either mafia or purposely trying to sabotage town with this kind of idiocy.

This is a good point what do you mean Wilgy? In theory he could be the tracker who tracked Soneji but as I said for Zebra I think this is very unlikely.

Golden wrote:@Soneji - indeed. I really do think Wilgy is bad. If we don't lynch him, and we have an even night town vig, he really needs to go.

@sig - I just read that as zebra expressing the certainty of her own view. Any comments zebra?

Ah okay then, maybe that is it.

Which I guess in theory she is saying the mafia killed Marco last night, and she tracked me.

However, that wouldn't explain the night 2 kills or the lack of vig kills 1 and 3.

As I said I think she is implying a set up which isn't possibly, and I think the fact it could in theory be possibly adds more weight to my theory that we aren't in it and she is trying to pretend we are.

plus I don't see the mafia not killing, Marco/Silver/Epi*

Soneji wrote:I am pretty sure town tracker is possible, if we are in set-up C which has both town vig and tracker in it.

But, there wasn't a vig kill night 1 or 3, plus I don't see the mafia killing Marco/Silver so I'm thinking we had a 1 shot mafia kill. So unless the mafia jailkeeper picked the vig day 1 and 3 yet didn't kill them yet then that would be weird.

Also notice she doesn't answer my question she just says I did it.

a2thezebra wrote:
sig wrote:@Zebra do you think the night kill was by the vig or by the mafia
You did it.

She is hinting that she is the tracker which isn't possibly. Maybe a jailkeeper, but that couldn't be possibly. Since she says I did the kill. So I believe she is implying a power role which can't exist in any of the set ups. Which is a scum move, to either draw out power roles, not get lynched, or get someone else lynched first.

Or it is a TMI slip since she is mafia and they believe I'm the vig. Perhaps she is a mafia jailkeeper and jailed me and there wasn't a vig kill. I will say for the record I'm not the vig, but the mafia could've been speculating on it and zebra is trying to pin the mafia kill on me.

Yes this sounds slightly crazy, but her posts makes zero sense as a civ in the available matrix's.

Zebra is making no sense and now out of nowhere suspecting me since I said she could be mafia? I also dislike what I see her hinting at since it is impossibly. I think we just saw a TMI scum chat slip from her.

@Ika read over my responses to your case on my slip, then tell me you still think it is the case espacilly considering the fact I'm most likely right about the world we are in.

lol that was very weak and you then never answered my points agaisnt it and dropped it when ppl disagreed with you. Is that why you killed Marco since he disagreed and argued with your "case"

Well you haven't even built a bad case, you've literally done nothing besides argue with Golden and MP about stupid stuff.

@Zebra do you think the night kill was by the vig or by the mafia

a2thezebra wrote:It is no concern of yours.

@Zebra what is the reasons for your Soneji vote? What do you think of Scotty?

Soneji wrote:Sig what CFD in Turf Wars are you talking about? The one on day 2 lynched a mafia member, not a civ.

Yes we did, however Epi who was also a mafia member could've gotten lynched.
Even though the CFD worked out I was still agaisnt it, and ended up being civ even though people tried to lynch me for being agaisnt it. This is the same sort of thing Scotty is trying to do. I'm agaisnt CFDs espacilly when first I'm not in control of them and second if I think they are being directed away from a mafia member. Which I believed was the case. IN FACT I was right. In this game IWAY was almost CFDs then another CFD started on Frog who flipped civ. So a CFD was done to save a mafia member in the end. I still believe both IWAY and MM are mafia members. Which is why neither voted for the other.

Also looking back IWAY voted for Soneji it could've been a distancing vote, but right now I don't think it was.

ika wrote:im glad someone is finally listening to me

I'm glad you built a good case on me.............oh wait you didn't nevermind.

Scotty wrote:Looking through sig's ISO in relation to IAWY and wow, are there some gaps. 3 full pages of posts without him even mentioning IAWY. His main town lean starts early, with a mention of IAWY having a "towny entrance" and that's it for a while.

I made lots of posts about lots of players why would I mention someone who was inactive and not a topic of discussion? I was trying to game solve and mafia hunt neither of which had anything to do with an inactive player who I was reading as civ.

Someone pressures sig on his lack of completeness on ISOs and he divulges more thoughts on him:
I think inaword voted for Sonjie as a poke/RVS and hasn't he been gone since? I really don't see how this is enough to start a CFD day 1
.
Soft defense for lack of posting.

A CFD comes up on Day 2 for him:

I was agaisnt the CFD last game and look what that got me, so I need to think it over a bit. However, as of right now I'm agaisnt it. He doesn't really seem scummy at all. What is the case on him?

After reading him over I'm just seeing a culture clash.
It's like he is actually thinking about it but he's not at all because he's my scummy "at all". Well that's bullsuit, because MP had posted an eloquent ISO containing points besides just a "culture clash" 5 pages before. I know that sig had to have noticed it, because he references MP's points in this post:
sig wrote:
ika wrote:
sig wrote:I was agaisnt the CFD last game and look what that got me, so I need to think it over a bit. However, as of right now I'm agaisnt it. He doesn't really seem scummy at all. What is the case on him?

After reading him over I'm just seeing a culture clash.
hes lurking and sevral who know him say thats scum MO?

and not only that, but rememebr last game as you mentioned it was on scum?
Yes however, it is rare for a CFD to hit scum, and funny you should mention last game sine the CFD in the long run lead to towns defeat. We'd have been better without the CFD that game.

Didn't MP even admit in his case it could be a cultural thing? If so I'm not sure I'm trusting MP right now. I've also got you Ika as a scum lean so I'm really not happy with it atm.

Also he has already said he isn't playing his MU game, just like I'm not playing the same I do on TS all the time. So none of these people has seen his home site play. And I know for a fact I will switch my game play/meta based on the site I'm on.
Way to throw it back on MP there, sig.
This is some hefty defending relating IAWY's playstyle to that of his own. Why defend someone so vehemently on lack of posting? I would think everyone would want more content as opposed to less content.

I was defending someone I thought was a civ, MP was agaisnt IWAY and admitted to it maybe being a cultural thing so yes it was important.I was defending him since a CFD was forming around a player who I didn't think was mafia and was taking votes from a player who I suspect is. This is what happened in Turf Wars and yes I was wrong about Fuzz I was right that the CFD saved a baddie

On his stance of a CFD:
Golden every single time A CFD has happened to me it has hurt town except for last game. Usually it is done by mafia or paranoid town. Also I'd argue the CFD didn't help since everyone was then to focused on the CFD people and tunneled on them avoiding the mafia who weren't for the most part agaisnt the wagon.
He sets it up so that if the CFD happens and IAWY is lynched, he's putting blame on those on the CFD. Like, what?

Your attempting to get me lynched on weak reasons based around the fact I opposed a CFD, of course if IWAY was CFD and flipped civ those who pushed it would look bad, espacilly if in pushing it they saved a mafia member. Matt/Sloonie was in part Hammered on the fact they CFD'd away from IWAY onto another player. So does that make those who pushed Matt bad?

@MP I think you raise some good points, but I still believe it is cultural and I really really dislike Ika saying ppl who have played with him think he is mafia, when he specifically said he wasn't playing his MU meta. I mean I know I change my meta from here to MU, in fact I'm playing more like I would on my home site right now. So I don't like the meta case agaisnt him, espacilly with Ika pushing it. SO I call bullshit on the meta bad thing since while he is playing different then MU nobody here knows his home site meta. It seems opportunistic to do a meta push when so few people actually know his meta. That is the main reason why I don't like his wagon. However, I'd like to see more content from him I'd say if he doesn't improve we lynch him tomorrow.
So after continued pushing against the meta argument, he mentions as an aside one of MP's original points: lack of content is not looking good for him. As if dog just came to that conclusion on his own.

Yes I was fine with lynching him the next day, when he had more of an opportunity to defend himself, post, and wouldn't be a CFD. I espacilly hate CFDs on lurkers they aren't around to defend themselves.
sig wrote:I've got my eye on Zebra, her switch reminds me of what Epi did in Turf war with the CFD. He didn't oppose it, but he wasn't agaisnt it.

I can't help, but think that I'm once again defending an inactive scum who is being CFD, however I'm not confident he is mafia and hate CFD espacilly onto lurkers who aren't around.

?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
sig wrote:So how about a counterwagon onto Soneji? Now that he has made a less then inspiring entrance.
Why?

You hate CFD's why should we lynch Soneji at this moment?

Linki: why don't you like them?
MM with the great point of the day!

Guys, I could keep going, but sig looks bad bad bad

I already explained in detail why I said what I said about Soneji.
You also cherrypick my posts something fierce ignoring everything else I did to make your point.
Are you mafia Scotty?

Scotty wrote:
Scotty wrote:EBWOP: ok, my autocorrect always corrects sig to dog. Every damned time.

Also how many votes did IWAY have before sig made that post? I'll need to try and look it up.
Looking at MM's handy voting tally, it looks like sig Voted for IWAY after Golden, putting him at 3 votes and the next highest, Wilgy, at 2. Soneji and Golden swayed the momentum towards IAWY by that point, so if sig were bussing, it was a pretty surefire resignation of his teammate having a date with the rope.

I'll look more through sig's posts as I go but I must say this is the most compelling thing I see right now.

VOTE SIG

(Sorry about multiple voting everywhere, marmot)

Linki: hi Mp!

I think I explained why I voted for IWAY just fine, as well as my hesitation to vote for him before. Lets not turn this into Turf War 2.0 since I tried to stop a CFD on someone. Said CFD which ended with us lynching a civ instead of a mafia member anyway.

DrWilgy wrote:Ji-san, did you submit the kill or was it someone else?

Do you have 1 or 2 teammates left? Based on your posts I'm going to assume 2.

Who is Ji?

sig to dog? lol

I think he had a good amount of the votes when I made that post. I see why you'd say it could be bad, but I'd disagree I thought MM was mafia for reasons before IWAY and even when he voted for IWAY and IWAY voted mafia I thought MM was still mafia.

My MM read has remained constant and IWAY flip would've done nothing to change my view. In fact him flipping mafia strengthened my read on MM. I'm willing to reconsider, but I doubt I'm wrong.

Soneji can you explain your vote?

linki: Wilgy ???

If your voting make sure you put everything in the large font.

Okay MM just wondering.

@Scotty I'll reread MM maybe I'm just tunneling and being paranoid.
Also I'm going with the assumption we have an even night vig, since there was only one kill last night. That means we could be in F, or 1 . In theory we could be in 4 and the vig/mafia kill could've been jailed. However, I doubt the vig killed Marco so that is most likely the mafia kill.

So 4 could still work, but the chances of a 2 shot jailkeeper targeting the vig is very very small. A possibility yes but a small one. So I think we have an even night vig.

I think Ika is mafia first for his No U on me, his EOD lynch votes were odd, and I think there is a possibility he could have killed Silver. I very much dislike that MM was so quick to clear him after Silver's death as well. However, order of lynching which would.
1. MM
2. Ika/Zebra/Other
3. Zebra/Ika

I did put other as two in case someone brings up a good case on another player. I doubt that will happen though.

No problem thanks for playing Marco, I enjoyed your style. Hope to play with you again someday either here or on MU.

Also sorry for multiply posts, but this needs to be said. We have 9 people left, 3 mafia members. Five to hammer. I don't think until closer to EOD we should have more then three votes on someone. In theory this could be lynch or loose.
6/3 mislynch 5/3 night kill+plus maybe vig?
3/3

SO NO HAMMER VOTING TODAY! It would only require 2 civs and then the three mafia members to all join the same wagon and we might loose the game so be very careful with votes.

linki: Lol Ika ignoring me right away.

My big reason for Zebra right now is that she pulled the hammer, plus IWAY flipping mafia made her look bad. She defended him alot and tried to stop his lynch throughout the game. However, even with that I had her as a civ lean until last night. Hammering the lynch is very bad imo and is usually done by either the mafia or a civ power role with knowledge. If I'm correct and we are in the matrix I think we are then she can't be a power role with knowledge, I think she is mafia and hammered the vote to stop it from switching back to MM her teammate.

Scotty wrote:
Soneji wrote:I am going to:

VOTE GOLDEN

For now.
Could you point yourself to your reasoning that led you to voting Golden? Hooked on Phonics style, preferably.

Your already tied with who you replaced in post count wise so props to you.

Soneji wrote:I am going to:

VOTE GOLDEN

For now.

Why, also please explain why you voted for Matt when we were so close to the hammer?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:VOTE A2THEZEBRA

Because I lost my IAWY iso.

How so? As in you literally lost it or what.
and is this a serious vote.

I'm not happy at all that ya'll hammered that vote. Soneji and Zebra are in my sites. Right now as is MM. MM has almost been lynched since day 1 yet every time someone steps in and redirects the wagon somewhere else. Yesterday it was a hammer vote when we had almost a full day left.

Hammering is like lock lynches, it doesn't help the civs unless they've got a red check on someone and SHOULD NEVER BE DONE.

linki:
@Scotty
1. He was inactive two posts.
2. That is a bias question :P but I'll answer anyway right now I'm trusting civ reading Golden, MP, and Wilgy. My wilgy read is mostly gut though.
3. Top suspects for me are MM, Ika, and Zebra.

You (psitt) and Soneji are unknowns however, I dislike how Soneji voted and almost hammered it yesterday.

Golden is a civ read despite his wagoning onto Frog and other stuff, however I might need to look back over him. Marco did clash with Golden a bit, but I'm unsure if mafia Golden would've killed him.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Early lynch

As the rules state, a day phase will end early if a majority is reached at any point. A majority is defined as more than half of the number of living players. This means that if 11 players are alive and any player receives 6 votes at the same time, the "hammer" will have been reached and the day phase will officially end at that 6th vote. If 12 players are alive, the hammer is the 7th vote. If I happen to be away when a hammer is reached and cannot end the day phase immediately, then any votes following that hammer vote will not be counted.
The rules say that no more votes will count, but it says nothing about posting. I'm going to continue posting until the day officially ends.

But, if the day phases is officially over doesn't that mean it is night? I assume the vote portion means we can't switch votes and that the phase is over so we can't post/add votes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Days/Nights and lynch mechanics
There will be a deadline each day phase, and the person with the most votes at the end of the day is lynched, unless a majority has already been reached before then, in which case the day ends prematurely.

Yup day is over, IT IS NIGHT. No more posting.

Marco wrote:Is it against the rules to continue talking even though hammer has been reached?

When you hammer it means the day is over, so technically we're now in the night phase which would mean we couldn't talk I assume?

Now vote for your scum buddy MM with me.

It is fine I want more post then you.

ika wrote:
sig wrote:Oh and I'd like to see more from Ika and the low posters.
ok

VOTE SIG

sig wrote:Epi didn't answer my question after throwing some shade at me, then whipped up a case faster then a platter of waffles hmmmm.

Linki: lol

Ignore this post wrong thread, sorry.

Epi didn't answer my question after throwing some shade at me, then whipped up a case faster then a platter of waffles hmmmm.

Linki: lol

Oh and I'd like to see more from Ika and the low posters.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Golden wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:On that note though, let's talk about Psi. What are we going to do if he doesn't get replaced or start posting more? Clearly the mafia and the second killer haven't killed him yet... and it's unclear whether they ever will. I doubt the mafia would have high incentive to do so if he's civilian, and zero incentive if he's mafia (lol).
I don't see much difference between Psi and Wilgy, honestly. I was doing the numbers to try and figure out how sure we can be that one of last night kills was town vig, and I think its probably quite likely. In which case, I really do encourage the town vig to take out psi or wilgy next time. Even if you suspect someone like dizzy or zexy, at least we can evaluate that in the thread.

@MP - interesting you should ask about soneji. For the first time, I feel like I have a vague read on soneji, and it's slight town. I have to say, though, I never was part of Turf Wars long enough to get any clear view of how soneji was playing as scum. Your thoughts?
Sadly, you're probably right; Wilgy is providing pretty much nothing. Yeah, I'm not sure why a town vig would have killed Dizzy... maybe Zexy, but Psi or Wilgy have provided less, so either one is a weird choice IMO.

I've thought he's town since he first entered the game, even if I'm far from convinced of it. Dizzy seemed to really suspect him though, and as the game has progressed, I don't feel I've progressed my read of Soneji at all since that initial ISO.

Why Dizzy more so then Zexy any reason.

Golden wrote:I really want Marco and Polo to play games together.

Lol took me a second to get that.

and MM your last post didn't add anything smh :P

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
sig wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
sig wrote:I'm happy with the votes right now would like to see more people post about stuff and vote.
Well, why don't you contribute something?
Honey I've been contributing all game. :P

I don't have anything to add right now, I want MM lynched. I'd need to see some reads from Matt, but would rather not lynch him today. If more people want to lynch Matt and when/if he flips civ I want MM lynched. Right now I doubt they are both teammates.
Well why not?

Many of us are adding things because people keep saying things.

Matt should get lynched for being mad at me.

And since he is mafia.

I've said everything I can, I've done more ISO reads, and read through the dead ppl, I'm confident MM and Ika are mafia. Third is still unknown I think it was someone who pushed the lynch to Frog or defended IWAY this points to Golden, Sloonie/Matt, or Zebra. I've got a strong civ read on Golden so not him. I've got a slight civ lean on zebra her posts about not lynching IWAY are very off putting though, Sloonie/matt look the worse however I'm still not sure if they could be on the same team as MM I need to think about it. I'm also having some doubts about Wilgy, but not enough to pursue on.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
sig wrote:I'm happy with the votes right now would like to see more people post about stuff and vote.
Well, why don't you contribute something?

Honey I've been contributing all game. :P

I don't have anything to add right now, I want MM lynched. I'd need to see some reads from Matt, but would rather not lynch him today. If more people want to lynch Matt and when/if he flips civ I want MM lynched. Right now I doubt they are both teammates.

I'm happy with the votes right now would like to see more people post about stuff and vote.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
sig wrote:Okay eww that looks horribly but shh. Also Sloonie/Matt looks really bad coming out of this. Golden isn't looking to good pushing Frog over IWAY. Neither does MM, he didn't vote for IWAY until necessary then suddenly a new CFD on Frog forms away from both, and MM switches.

I think we caught the scum team and they overextended themselves.
I was being cautious with my vote on Day 1 because I wanted to make sure that I was not part of a tie in the lynch. As for the end of Day 2, I know it might look bad that I didn't finish the day with my vote on IAWY, but my goal was to put a little bit of pressure on other players at the end of the day.

Marco said he couldn't analyze all of the vote switches now, so I'll see what I can scrounge up.

Yes, but then you switched from IWAY to Frog, if you hadn't IWAY would've been one ahead of Frog and two ahead of you, so you switching your vote makes no sense. I think you and IWAY were teammates and you were trying not to vote a teammate out.

VOTE METALMARSH89

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