The Syndicate

Good game everyone.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:37 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:22 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:56 pm Point 1 has me baffled too.
I'm pretty sure that point one townspews them.

They aren't thinking of kill in the NK perspective. They are thinking kill in the yeet perspective.
Dude, that's the easiest perspective to fake, and Maf do it all the time. Virtually every single game in fact

Not like this dude.

Scum will attempt to force a perspective when pushing others or defending oneself.

Scums not gonna have focus on a confirmed townie as if they were potentially scummy because the only way to have known would've been to vote for them.

Yeah actually. If I'm wrong majority and pass me, but I'm going to veto all SixStrings votes.

1. Six spoke with a perspective that was created before roles went out.

2. This shows that the focus of "killing" is the yeet not the nightly kill.

Hell, I'd love to see Six figure out how to hunt, but the perspective of town KEEPS coming through.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:56 pm Point 1 has me baffled too.

I'm pretty sure that point one townspews them.

They aren't thinking of kill in the NK perspective. They are thinking kill in the yeet perspective.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:46 am
S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:30 pm Another point; if it was anyone but Daisy they would have killed me to frame Daisy.
Well... I would have yes lol.

Would SixStrings though?

Would have Falcon?

So my hesitation with this is why Dennis.

It's a kill that doesn't change the status quo, implying that the wolf was fine with the trajectory of last cycle.

Also @Spacedaisy come back to the thread. Talk to me about whos bad.

@MacDougall what are your thoughts and perspective on SVS?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:11 pm The thing that might be townie in that post is he's assessing himself through an only town bias. His claim he'd never kill Kate because he needs her to help him might be a townslip in that he forgot to consider that perspective may change if he's a lone bad guy.

This is what I think to be accurate.

I don't see a fresh wolf saying "I signed up for this assuming i could watch her posts and figure out what is going on." I think that perspective was formed before roles went out and only would change if TMI was obtained.

Like, if it's a gotcha using their fresh face, then fine, w/e, but I still find that unlikely.

Matahari wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:39 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:24 pm
Matahari wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:00 pm @DrWilgy does the new way of playing stick to a cycle? Do you not go back and look at whole game behaviors when evaluating a player? Or are people just judged by what they’re doing today?
Sometimes a person can say something early in a game that is reasonably innocent sounding but a few days later, it can look very bad.
I'm not entirely sure what you are asking.

Are you asking if my opinion of you is day to day static? If so no, that would be silly.
No, you questioned why I was looking up something from an earlier cycle, when I didn’t mention it during the earlier cycle. That confused me because I’m used to constantly reassessing things from the entire game. So I wasn’t sure what you were meant.

Ah, I understand.

When I first read your post on Mac having a mistake, I interpreted this as 'you saw this 'mistake' and are going to go back and find it on re-read now.' Not, 'I'm doing a re-read now and found a mistake I didn't see before.'

The former raising the question 'why is this happening only now?'

Ah, minor correction to Poll 1:

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:32 pm
Neon 5
Voters: Falcon45ca, Matahari, SixStrings, Dennis, Sig

Sig 6
Voters: DrWilgy, Kate, MacDougall, S~V~S, Spacedaisy, Neon

Dennis 1
Voters: Neon

Spacedaisy 3
Voters: S~V~S, Matahari, MacDougall

Neon 4
Voters: Falcon45ca, SixStrings, Dennis, DrWilgy
Now that I'm aware of Neon's alignment, I should reassess Falcon, Mata, Six and Dennis. Perhaps I should give Mac more credit for the Sig push too.

I'll reISO and attempt to redigest.

Neon 5
Voters: Falcon45ca, Matahari, SixStrings, Dennis

Sig 6
Voters: DrWilgy, Kate, MacDougall, S~V~S, Spacedaisy

Dennis 1
Voters: Neon

Spacedaisy 3
Voters: S~V~S, Matahari, MacDougall

Neon 4
Voters: Falcon45ca, SixStrings, Dennis, DrWilgy

Now that I'm aware of Neon's alignment, I should reassess Falcon, Mata, Six and Dennis. Perhaps I should give Mac more credit for the Sig push too.

I'll reISO and attempt to redigest.

Matahari wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:00 pm @DrWilgy does the new way of playing stick to a cycle? Do you not go back and look at whole game behaviors when evaluating a player? Or are people just judged by what they’re doing today?
Sometimes a person can say something early in a game that is reasonably innocent sounding but a few days later, it can look very bad.

I'm not entirely sure what you are asking.

Are you asking if my opinion of you is day to day static? If so no, that would be silly.

@Matahari I get this odd feeling that you are keen to push the PoEs promoted by others such as SVS, Kate and I.

You had hardly mentioned Mac in a negative up until this point, but there was a "mistake" a cycle ago that comes to light now?

Dennis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:40 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:39 pm Yar, unfortunate.

Ah shit did someone get the poll?
Neon on me

Svs, Mata and Mac on spacedaisy

So me you falcon and strings on neon

Ty I'll reconstruct the polls shortly with the data we have now.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:39 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:37 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:36 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:35 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:33 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:31 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:30 pm Wilgy now dropping tinfoil on Falcon is so wolfy. He's been treating Falcon like a town to a degree where I've had his townread on Falcon as TMI and now just slips him in here. That's what one does when he realises one of his miselims isn't viable. Now he's slipping his game revolving townread I to PoE.

Don't let him endgame.
I hope you are town then I get to call you a silly willy afterwards.
Do you recognise the absurdity of this thought?

If I'm town, you're also a silly willy for starting this whole thing with a bad read.
Aye, and if we lose because I yeet you, by all means let me know
I won't. Because being wrong in mafia is natural and being mean to someone for being wrong makes you an asshat.
Ah. Mac I didn't mean to be mean. I'm just messing. You are a good friend and I very much enjoy playing Mafia with you.
See now you're slipping tmi because you would need to know I'm town to have this thought.

lol, no I don't. You said I was being mean and that's all I needed to apologize and let you know what I think of you in general. Mafia is a game of fun and friends and we should treat it as such without alignment being a thing.

Yar, unfortunate.

Ah shit did someone get the poll?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:36 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:35 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:33 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:31 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:30 pm Wilgy now dropping tinfoil on Falcon is so wolfy. He's been treating Falcon like a town to a degree where I've had his townread on Falcon as TMI and now just slips him in here. That's what one does when he realises one of his miselims isn't viable. Now he's slipping his game revolving townread I to PoE.

Don't let him endgame.
I hope you are town then I get to call you a silly willy afterwards.
Do you recognise the absurdity of this thought?

If I'm town, you're also a silly willy for starting this whole thing with a bad read.
Aye, and if we lose because I yeet you, by all means let me know
I won't. Because being wrong in mafia is natural and being mean to someone for being wrong makes you an asshat.

Ah. Mac I didn't mean to be mean. I'm just messing. You are a good friend and I very much enjoy playing Mafia with you.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:36 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:33 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:31 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:30 pm Wilgy now dropping tinfoil on Falcon is so wolfy. He's been treating Falcon like a town to a degree where I've had his townread on Falcon as TMI and now just slips him in here. That's what one does when he realises one of his miselims isn't viable. Now he's slipping his game revolving townread I to PoE.

Don't let him endgame.
I hope you are town then I get to call you a silly willy afterwards.
Do you recognise the absurdity of this thought?

If I'm town, you're also a silly willy for starting this whole thing with a bad read.
You're both silly willies, and I'm totally chuffed to say so.

SVS is clearly the wolf and this is TMI

Dennis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:34 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:34 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:34 pm Ladies ladies you're both pretty
You're mum's dead.
Your*

No, he meant that's your name now. Hello Mum's Dead.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:33 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:31 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:30 pm Wilgy now dropping tinfoil on Falcon is so wolfy. He's been treating Falcon like a town to a degree where I've had his townread on Falcon as TMI and now just slips him in here. That's what one does when he realises one of his miselims isn't viable. Now he's slipping his game revolving townread I to PoE.

Don't let him endgame.
I hope you are town then I get to call you a silly willy afterwards.
Do you recognise the absurdity of this thought?

If I'm town, you're also a silly willy for starting this whole thing with a bad read.

Aye, and if we lose because I yeet you, by all means let me know

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:30 pm Wilgy now dropping tinfoil on Falcon is so wolfy. He's been treating Falcon like a town to a degree where I've had his townread on Falcon as TMI and now just slips him in here. That's what one does when he realises one of his miselims isn't viable. Now he's slipping his game revolving townread I to PoE.

Don't let him endgame.

Also lol did I say I'm shifting my PoE? SVS asked for just suspicion and that's far more gut based than rationale based.

If I ignore gut (which is correct to do) I have no reason to fear Falcon.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:30 pm Wilgy now dropping tinfoil on Falcon is so wolfy. He's been treating Falcon like a town to a degree where I've had his townread on Falcon as TMI and now just slips him in here. That's what one does when he realises one of his miselims isn't viable. Now he's slipping his game revolving townread I to PoE.

Don't let him endgame.

I hope you are town then I get to call you a silly willy afterwards.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:25 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:22 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:19 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:17 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:15 pm Wilgy just maintaining his read on me throughout this day and showing no town paranoia is also nagl. The mindset of wolves in this gamestate often is demonstrated by the lack of flippancy. They pick their targets and just try to roll over them downhill.
Why would I have paranoia ATM? We have 3 misyeets just to get to lylo.
Specifically referring to you not exhibiting a single ounce of doubt that I'm town. Treating me like a must resolve poe member all day. You don't have the mindset of a townie without information imo.
That's because I'm a townie with information. Sig was wolf and I trust my PoE based upon that.

And don't get me wrong. I've been here pondering the best order to resolve that PoE. I think Neon 1st, then you as I think SixStrings doesn't belong in there and I've seen too many people spew Mata as town.
This is how a wolf approaches POE. You have counted necessary miselims and preselected several slots as NKs already.

You are clamping me in POE here while giving a pass to several players who literally voted against the sig wagon, some of which are clearly not townie. Your appraisal of the gamestate doesn't feel complete to me.

This is literally how anyone approaches PoE. Next.

Yes, because I believe their reasons for voting Neon as I almost did as well. This is why resolving Neon before reevaluation is needed. If the entire thread was just correct, why look elsewhere.

Also Neon AND Sig both looking for an alt wagon that weren't each other was sketchy as fuck.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:23 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:17 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:15 pm Wilgy just maintaining his read on me throughout this day and showing no town paranoia is also nagl. The mindset of wolves in this gamestate often is demonstrated by the lack of flippancy. They pick their targets and just try to roll over them downhill.
Why would I have paranoia ATM? We have 3 misyeets just to get to lylo.
But it would be more fun for those misyeeted people to not be yeeted.

Who are you most suspicious of? Aside from resolving and analyzing how many misyeets we have? I mean, we have 3, but wouldn't it be more awesome to do it in less?

Analysis is good and it has its place in games, town can't win without it. But does anyone vote based on suspicion anymore or is it just POE analysis?

True but I don't see the game going that way.

Honest suspicion is on Mac, then Neon and my tinfoil is Falcon but that's because they just duped me in Scooby Doo. I do not know how much weight I should place upon that tin foil.

I think what I said to you re Daisy is a good enough reason to keep them out of PoE.

Dennis and SixStrings I'm kinda just trusting on Vibe, but I've not seen anything to push me away from that.

Mata has been called town by everyone, so I guess they are just town.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:21 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:19 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:18 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:16 pm My problem with not voting Neon is that I kinda just have to vote you Mac.

You and Neon were the greatest pushers of other options d1 and that just needs to be resolved.
I also pushed sig, he pushed me, I voted him and never unvoted him. And I also clearly explained my thoughts which you ignored. And given I am town, I struggle to believe you "just have to vote me" given that seems to be a problem unique to you.
Yeah and then you scrambled at EoD as the lone player trying to hard defend the wolf.

Idk what you want from me dood, we have to resolve that.
Idk what you want from me is commonly referred to as the daily mafia scumslip btw.

I didn't scramble. I reevaluated incorrectly. I have done this in practically every mafia game I have ever played and you know it.

You're not reading the situation with any nuance.

You know I don't scumslip Mac.

Yes, but I think that if this was a reevaluation that lead to you defending Sig, you being like "wowee I was wrong" doesn't absolve you from being in the PoE.

What nuance is there to read into?

If I'm wrong it's on SVS, Daisy, Falcon or Dennis, why am I wrong to tr them?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:19 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:17 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:15 pm Wilgy just maintaining his read on me throughout this day and showing no town paranoia is also nagl. The mindset of wolves in this gamestate often is demonstrated by the lack of flippancy. They pick their targets and just try to roll over them downhill.
Why would I have paranoia ATM? We have 3 misyeets just to get to lylo.
Specifically referring to you not exhibiting a single ounce of doubt that I'm town. Treating me like a must resolve poe member all day. You don't have the mindset of a townie without information imo.

That's because I'm a townie with information. Sig was wolf and I trust my PoE based upon that.

And don't get me wrong. I've been here pondering the best order to resolve that PoE. I think Neon 1st, then you as I think SixStrings doesn't belong in there and I've seen too many people spew Mata as town.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:18 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:16 pm My problem with not voting Neon is that I kinda just have to vote you Mac.

You and Neon were the greatest pushers of other options d1 and that just needs to be resolved.
I also pushed sig, he pushed me, I voted him and never unvoted him. And I also clearly explained my thoughts which you ignored. And given I am town, I struggle to believe you "just have to vote me" given that seems to be a problem unique to you.

Yeah and then you scrambled at EoD as the lone player trying to hard defend the wolf.

Idk what you want from me dood, we have to resolve that.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:15 pm Wilgy just maintaining his read on me throughout this day and showing no town paranoia is also nagl. The mindset of wolves in this gamestate often is demonstrated by the lack of flippancy. They pick their targets and just try to roll over them downhill.

Why would I have paranoia ATM? We have 3 misyeets just to get to lylo.

My problem with not voting Neon is that I kinda just have to vote you Mac.

You and Neon were the greatest pushers of other options d1 and that just needs to be resolved.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:08 pm I also think that Neon is probably out of their scumrange.

I'm worried this is true, but am still think it's best to resolve.

I don't know if W Neon is this heavy handed on the "Wilgy is scummy" without explanation.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:07 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:17 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:13 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:11 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:09 pm The Players

Dennis - scummy > I'm tunneled pls solve > still scummy
Dr Wigly - scummy
falcon45ca - scummy
MacDougall - towny
Matahari - towny > towny with self doubt
Neon - town
SixStrings - scummy
Spacedaisy - towny
S~V~S - scummy > towny > scummy > towny

This sucks
What's up with wilgz
He's not towny?
But why
Because nothing he's done has been towny

Yes. I have done absolutely nothing towny this game.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:57 pm
sig wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:53 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:59 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:35 pm Alrighty let's do something with this day

@S~V~S talk to me about Matahari. She seemed pretty towny to me but I am wondering where your doubts are, if I'm correctly remembering that you scumread her

@DrWilgy talk to me about spacedaisy
I’m not anymore. She addressed my concerns and has been solvey imo. I reread her and I think she’s town.

@DrWilgy both Daisy and dig are skilled players (I started playing in 2008 or 09, and at that time Daisy was an experienced player) and sig just fooled 40 people for days on end. I think 98% is a wee bit of hyperbole.

sog, dig, dog, I think I should report y’all for bullying me /dead]
If it makes you feel any better, my phone has started correcting “dog” (and I talk about my dog ALOT) to “sig” occasionally.

My phone just changes it to SIG. I don't want you to think I'm yelling at you.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:59 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:35 pm Alrighty let's do something with this day

@S~V~S talk to me about Matahari. She seemed pretty towny to me but I am wondering where your doubts are, if I'm correctly remembering that you scumread her

@DrWilgy talk to me about spacedaisy
I’m not anymore. She addressed my concerns and has been solvey imo. I reread her and I think she’s town.

@DrWilgy both Daisy and dig are skilled players (I started playing in 2008 or 09, and at that time Daisy was an experienced player) and sig just fooled 40 people for days on end. I think 98% is a wee bit of hyperbole.

I thought about this and maybe you are correct.

However I think the posts I quote of Daisy are only indicative of bussing assuming Neon is town. I think I'd need to know that before judging Daisy against bussing.

I don't think Daisy made any hard pushes for Neon W in spite of voicing it early. I'd expect more from W Daisy, even if it was a bus the posture would be very much in the "I'll vote Sig but Neon is next." I feel it was more of a "I'll vote Sig but could vote either." Which I think is less bus indicative.

Wouldn't have this problem if chatgpt write your posts for you.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 3:09 pm The Players

Dennis - scummy > I'm tunneled pls solve > still scummy
Dr Wigly - scummy
falcon45ca - scummy
MacDougall - towny
Matahari - towny > towny with self doubt
Neon - town
SixStrings - scummy
Spacedaisy - towny
S~V~S - scummy > towny > scummy > towny

This sucks

Calling more than half the cast scummy when there's a single wolf isn't really hunting.

Why are these players scummy in relation to Sig and what's your exact PoE?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:10 pm Daisy ISO re Sig:
Spoiler: show
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:25 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:54 pm
I’ll dig it up this weekend. It involves dried cranberries and orange liqueur to rehydrate the berries. OMFG it’s awesome. She also made it with dried cherries and Cherry Kijafa.
Orange and cranberry are one of my favorite flavor combinations.

Kate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:58 pm And what, pray tell, did you have for dessert??
ice cream actually. Mint chocolate Viennetta.

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:17 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:26 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:37 pm Spacedaisy didn't vote either cake OR pie
Alas, I made the dreadful mistake of eating dinner and spending time with my husband before finishing my catch up.
Nevermind spacedaisy is bad for maintaining real life relationships and not putting our poll about cake and pie first
Sound logic. [VOTE: Daisy] aubergine

Matahari wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:58 am Sherry, I’m sorry to hear your news. My condolences to you and your family.
Proud slanker here. I’m usually pretty quiet during the first two days, but by day 3, I never seem to stop talking.
I’ve played maybe 7 games in the last 6 years that are not classic games, and it still blows my mind the way people throw votes out so early on day 1. I understand that sometimes the votes are just a way to engage a player and get them to talk, but sometimes it’s not. So I’m going to ask a question (hypothetical situation, actually) and I would really like to hear ppl’s thoughts about it. I understand though, if you would prefer not to discuss this, as it might interfere with your personal strategy. Ok, here goes:

The hosts post that there has been a lice outbreak in the nursery/playroom, and everyone has to go home for the day so the room can be decontaminated. Everyone has 1 hour to either vote or abstain. What would you do?

I’d really like to hear what people would do, but again, I understand if you prefer to keep your thought private.
I always struggle at the beginning of games and recently find it really difficult to stay engaged in games. It's why I don't play often anymore, so I feel you on the slanker thing. Also, this was the most creative GTH read request I've ever seen and I love it, lol.

I'm leaning sig or Neon atm.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:25 am You okay? Did you get lost during catch up!
Honestly, not all the great. While the situation with the original anxiety is mostly resolved and life isn't bad, there is a general malaise that hangs on at the moment. My hormones are probably being little bitches and fucking with me, honestly. Also, the Friday-Monday time frame tends to be when I am doing the most work. I've been pretty buried in work files the last couple days. So it's a little of this, little of that. But it's not a great excuse, because it's unfair to the other players and hosts. Sorry.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:44 am
See I'll murder Sig.

But the thing is that won't clear me either will it because lol Neon busses.

I'm not shielding sig just because I disagree with your Dennis read.

This reads like she knows sigs flip already
Mind meld on this one.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:52 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:44 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:24 pm
See I'll murder Sig.

But the thing is that won't clear me either will it because lol Neon busses.

I'm not shielding sig just because I disagree with your Dennis read.

This reads like she knows sigs flip already
Hmm... This is a good observation.
Mind meld.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:11 pm
Isn't that just the normal evolution of a gut read?

Gut > Solid > Tinfoil > Solid?
Mind meld.

Ok so...

MacDougall is my only solid town read atm. That thing he pulled where he put out fake reads to see the reactions is a frequent town maneuver that I've noticed him doing.

I didn't think anything of the supposed slip that Kate was talking about. However, I do think what Neon said is sus. This combined with the fact that sig seemed like he was poking around trying to see what would stick. My only fear here is that sig has frequently got yeeted day 1 over the years for being weird. But I'm going to go with my gut here because he's the one I feel the most scum lean on. Instead of scum hunting, it felt like he spent the day throwing spaghetti at the wall and discrediting Kate for what looked to me like a normal read progression.

[VOTE: sig] aubergine
This is solid. I don't tink it's aligned in the slightest.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:37 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:26 pm Kinda rich coming from someone who’s made 1 on topic post.
I mean, I did just read most of the relevant posts in a sitting, it can give a little perspective. But I'm just doing the best I can with Day 1, there is never much to go on, but you feel like the best bet to me, all things considered. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
And this isn't theatre
Daisy and Sig are not aligned 98% of the time.

@Dennis already did. I see no reason to reevaluate at this time.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:22 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:08 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:15 am [VOTE: wilgy] aubergine
[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine
[VOTE: mac] aubergine

[VOTE: mac] aubergine

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:15 am [VOTE: wilgy] aubergine

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I'm still pretty sure that the Mac, Neon, Mata PoE is just game winning.

SixStrings wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:36 pm From what i understand trying to piece this together, We the town, killed Sig spearheaded by Kate. Then in the night cycle, Sig and his partner killed Kate. I most definitely would not kill my wife on my first day, since she brought me into the game. I signed up for this assuming i could watch her posts and figure out what is going on. Since you are trying to figure out if I am good or bad, I thought that would be important to add. Guess I'll have to watch Dennis now. Don"t let me down DenMan.

now I am to look for clues as to who i believe conspired with Sig. Correct?

Any constructive feedback to this post would be greatly appreciated!

1. I believe this, I don't think you'd yeet Kate.

2. Yes, now that we know Sig was a wolf, you may want to make associations with Sig based on this knowledge to find the teammate. If you are not fully in the know I would recommend viewing players in isolation as you may be able to better single out how they seem in relation to Sig.

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:48 pm [

You were the best of us.

Yarp was pretty clear cut

Neon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:19 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:10 pm Neon ISO
Spoiler: show

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:09 am
sig wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:02 pm I’m 100% committed to voting off anyone that votes cake in this poll.

Also anyone that voted apple slices are third party. And I don’t want to hear “the set up doesn’t say anything about third party sig”
True I'm a town siding 3P survivor.
Jokey on the first interaction
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:40 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:36 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:35 am
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:09 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:47 am

no
Is it me?
Maybe it’s the friends we made along the way?

Buuuuut, it’s probably Mac for trying to end the fluff phase early and reading fluff as anything other than NAI

GG guys I solved the game
That sounds pretty normal to me tbh
Pockets Mac by disolving Sig's opposition to Mac's non fluff posting. Not really a Sig interaction, but at least shows a spark of contention.

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:42 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:29 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:54 am Also some fluff is fluff and other fluff is fur trying to look like fluff so to suggest fluff isn't readable is at best, incorrect.
Do you think mafia isn’t capable of making fluff posts?

I’d say the fluff heavy players can do said fluff as town or mafia since there isn’t some secondary meaning to it.
I've never fluffed as mafia
More yokes

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:37 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:15 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:12 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:06 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:02 pm

Mac is lock town lol

Also I love you Mac.
No
Yes. It's okay your free to be wrong but Mac is the most obvious towny I've ever seen in a N0 lol.
Okay, but if he’s pocketing you and deep wolfing imma whine about it next game.
Wouldn't be the first time I've been pocketed hopelessly.

Won't be the first time I don't care either.
Good look for Neon I think. I don't think Sig would go out of their way to think 'If I say my teammate is being Pocketed, this implies I know they are town and that's how I'll distance.' It's more likely Sig just knew Neon was town and therefore pocketable.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:20 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:24 pm @Neon i don’t think sig is mafia so you shouldn’t sheep mac
Mmm [VOTE: Sig] aubergine
I dont know if Neon answers their one teammate like that. A minor good look.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:24 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:06 pm I'll caveat that with so many slankers I could be wrong easily but I started off thinking that the part where Neon was townreading me and you accused me of Omgus was a weird projection of what she was doing to me. So I decided to townlock her to see if she'd do the expected from a position of feeling confident she had me pocketed ie. shield you and not sheep me. Which she did do. She voted you briefly and got her vote off you asap onto my townread. I got no real doubt Neon is mafia here.

Wilgy is sus outside of this but he agreed with my fake townread on Neon in a very scummy way.

You're actually the one of the 3 reads I'm less confident on but only because twtbw.
See I'll murder Sig.

But the thing is that won't clear me either will it because lol Neon busses.

I'm not shielding sig just because I disagree with your Dennis read.
the 'prophecy' post. I think my bigger issue is that there was VERY minimal discussion towards Sig being W from Neon prior to this. Perhaps it could be interpreted from the posts above, but it feels like we missed some steps to get to 'we'll I'll look like I'm bussing if I vote who I think is scum'. Not a good look without that data I think.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:26 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:13 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:11 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:11 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:18 am

There's a 97.8% chance there's at most 1 wolf there.
There’s only 2 so like that’s half?
Yes. Now that we've all done math.

At most 1 but possibly 0
Right, but you’re making it seem like 1 wolf isn’t alot when in a game of this size it is
That's not what I've done at all.

What I've done is made it apparent I'd rather find the wolf(s) that are actively effecting the game state and not shoot the fish in the (slanker) barrel
Still arguing game theory as opposed to alignment.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:29 pm Hmmm... Mac might be wolf.

It's not a perfect read but it is one I've used before where wolfs try to discredit the top posters in a game and throw suspicion on to them to prevent their thread control and change the direction of the thread.

With Mac throwing sus on Sig and me he's pushing the 2 top posters in this game and I know he's just wrong on me. The problem lies in that I think he's right on Sig...
A Sig push but a non-committal one. This is like oddly layer 1 Mac may be bad layer 2 my Sig read is based on Mac who may be bad. This is a janky post now that I read it in context of W Sig. Bad look.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:30 am
Matahari wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:45 pm Thank you for the answers I got earlier today, it helped me to understand a few things better. I may try an early vote sometime.
I’m still confused though as to who I should vote. I’ve had 2 suspicions, and I’m doubting myself on one of them.
So, I noticed Neon was completely different than in the only other game I’ve seen her in, where she was town. When MacDougall, who I think is town, said he kind of thought Neon was town, I let it go. Then he said he was sure she was wolf and I felt kind of relieved, like maybe my spidey senses aren’t completely fried yet.
But my other suspicion is the one I’m really baffled about. I don’t think Kate is town, but everyone else does. Well, except Sig, but that’s a whole other issue. I’m trying to keep an open mind and tell myself I’m reading her wrong, that I’ve not played with her enough lately to make a good judgement call, but Kate, you just don’t seem like your town self to me.
I thought the way you voted Sig showed nervousness. Like your first reason wasn’t good enough, so you had to give a second reason right away, and it just felt like you were nervous. And since then, you’ve seemed over eager/over confident? Maybe you’re just really happy to be playing and very sure you’ve caught a wolf. Idk. Anyway, I’m the only one suspecting you, so I hope I’m wrong. Of course, if Sig flips wolf, then I’ll know for sure if I’m reading you wrong.
I have MacDougall, Falcon, Dennis, SVS as probable town for now, and not sure about Daisy yet.
I actually don't necessarily think Kate is town. Kinda actually think Sig and Kate is a diff check
We think Sig/Kate is a dif check is very bold and we can take some behavior analysis to see if Neon actually believes this.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:15 am
Kate wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:00 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:24 am
Kate wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:33 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:31 pm Mac, neon, Wilgy and falcon are likely all town
So which one of these is your partner?
Obviously me
This was supposed to be kind of tongue in cheek. I don't suspect you atm.
Maybe you should

you shouldn't
Sus
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:17 am There's like a 50/50 chance I'm back for EoD so

[VOTE: Sig] aubergine
Votes Sig again with a potential of not being back. Decent.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:27 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:11 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:04 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:03 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:49 am

It’s a tone:gut read
But when I had a gut read it was bullshit?
Since it stopped being a gut read to become a “well it’s since he used a no you” to a “well it was a slip that made it”

So yes

You’re finding fake reasons to Reenforce a fake gut read.
Isn't that just the normal evolution of a gut read?

Gut > Solid > Tinfoil > Solid?
Yes. Sigs gut read not evolving is weirder than Kate's gutread evolving
This is also a decent look for Neon.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:33 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:14 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:11 pm My biggest issue with neon would be she threw out some Sus on Mac but then is voting with him. Also upon a quick reread she’s much less active than what I’d expect from her town game.

I know I’m civ so that’s the preferred wagon, but I’m not married to it.
It's also kind of uncool to pile on her when she said she won't be back. But hey, you do you.
Technically I said 50% chance lol
This interaction also looks good for Neon. Feels like Sig is attempting to justify a vote on Neon.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:37 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:32 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:31 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:25 pm Bottom line? So many mafia make this mistake D1 of trying to vote me off for weak reasoning. Half the time they get caught and half the time I get mislynched.

Sabi trying it in GoC is the most recently example.

That’s what Kates trying to do here.
You... were hostile 3P in GoC though.
Not mafia though so the misvote attempt still applies
This logic does not compute.
Sig discredits Neon's analysis and Neon clashes with it. Another good look.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:41 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:39 pm Question is whether it really matters.

Can you two get on the same page about a c/w to your wagons? Doesn't seem like you guys agree about anyone in particular both having individual pet scum reads.
Probably not

Let's play a game of would I vote this player

The Players

Dennis - yes
Dr Wigly - yes
falcon45ca - yes
Kate - no
MacDougall - no
Matahari - no
Neon- no
sig - maybe
SixStrings - yes
Spacedaisy - no
S~V~S - not today cause that feels dirty
This is where Neon starts to feel odd. Like There's contradiction in this and the posts following. Neon discourages a CW to both Sig/Neon in unison.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:50 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:46 pm I also super don't understand what the three of you are taking issue with sig on the gut read progression thing?

Are you trying to make out that being a hypocrite is wolfy? It's not. Being a hypocrite is towny because you have confbias in your alignment so don't view yourself as capable of being wolfy so can suspect others for things you're doing. Wolves are less hypocritical in that way.
My problem is I thought Sig/Kate was a diff check and I thought Sig was wolfier overall but now I'm kinda thinking it's just T v T which is fucking with my world view cause Kates general progression is towny itself I think.
Undoes the dif check.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:52 pm [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine
Then in spite of disagreeing with Mac, Neon does it. Why are we all over the place?
Neon I think looks to be the best in appearance OF the people I'd keep in the PoE. Which is now Mata, Six, Mac and Neon. I think that there's alot of evidence that Neon did legitimately suspect Sig early, BUT there was a lack of explanation that makes it hard to remove Neon from PoE. The implication of a dif check into no dif check, thinking mac was right but also wolf, and not going to cw alongside sig but then doing exactly that all show evidence of inconsistency that can be interpreted as either alignment. Maybe Neon was legitimately in a state of being unsure and the reads developed, maybe Neon got stuck in a theatre with a teammate and tried to eject awkwardly. Hard to say.
This post simultaneously missing a lot of the nuance of things and like misinterpreting many other things

This reaction is at least marginally better than Mac's.

I did the work, perhaps you can as well and explain what I missed and misunderstood?

Just skimming and I did notice that Sig puts abit of energy in making Falcon out to be town. Perhaps worth considering.

sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:31 pm Mac, neon, Wilgy and falcon are likely all town

Also I'm in agreement, the way Sig went after low posters I do think warrants giving Mata and Six some more time.

I think Solving Neon/Mac may just crack the game open tbh.

Another observation:

sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:11 pm My biggest issue with neon would be she threw out some Sus on Mac but then is voting with him. Also upon a quick reread she’s much less active than what I’d expect from her town game.

I know I’m civ so that’s the preferred wagon, but I’m not married to it.

This came shortly AFTER saying Me, Mac, Neon, Falcon were the TRs. I think it's likely Sig shifted into antispew and this is kinda a bad look for Neon now that I have context.

AND that's it.

Yeet Neon/Mac, don't really care which one first. Go from there. If it's not in Neon/Mac/Six/Mata gl.

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:37 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:10 pm Neon ISO
Spoiler: show

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:09 am
sig wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:02 pm I’m 100% committed to voting off anyone that votes cake in this poll.

Also anyone that voted apple slices are third party. And I don’t want to hear “the set up doesn’t say anything about third party sig”
True I'm a town siding 3P survivor.
Jokey on the first interaction
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:40 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:36 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:35 am
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:09 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:47 am

no
Is it me?
Maybe it’s the friends we made along the way?

Buuuuut, it’s probably Mac for trying to end the fluff phase early and reading fluff as anything other than NAI

GG guys I solved the game
That sounds pretty normal to me tbh
Pockets Mac by disolving Sig's opposition to Mac's non fluff posting. Not really a Sig interaction, but at least shows a spark of contention.

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:42 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:29 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:54 am Also some fluff is fluff and other fluff is fur trying to look like fluff so to suggest fluff isn't readable is at best, incorrect.
Do you think mafia isn’t capable of making fluff posts?

I’d say the fluff heavy players can do said fluff as town or mafia since there isn’t some secondary meaning to it.
I've never fluffed as mafia
More yokes

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:37 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:15 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:12 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:06 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:02 pm

Mac is lock town lol

Also I love you Mac.
No
Yes. It's okay your free to be wrong but Mac is the most obvious towny I've ever seen in a N0 lol.
Okay, but if he’s pocketing you and deep wolfing imma whine about it next game.
Wouldn't be the first time I've been pocketed hopelessly.

Won't be the first time I don't care either.
Good look for Neon I think. I don't think Sig would go out of their way to think 'If I say my teammate is being Pocketed, this implies I know they are town and that's how I'll distance.' It's more likely Sig just knew Neon was town and therefore pocketable.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:20 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:24 pm @Neon i don’t think sig is mafia so you shouldn’t sheep mac
Mmm [VOTE: Sig] aubergine
I dont know if Neon answers their one teammate like that. A minor good look.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:24 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:06 pm I'll caveat that with so many slankers I could be wrong easily but I started off thinking that the part where Neon was townreading me and you accused me of Omgus was a weird projection of what she was doing to me. So I decided to townlock her to see if she'd do the expected from a position of feeling confident she had me pocketed ie. shield you and not sheep me. Which she did do. She voted you briefly and got her vote off you asap onto my townread. I got no real doubt Neon is mafia here.

Wilgy is sus outside of this but he agreed with my fake townread on Neon in a very scummy way.

You're actually the one of the 3 reads I'm less confident on but only because twtbw.
See I'll murder Sig.

But the thing is that won't clear me either will it because lol Neon busses.

I'm not shielding sig just because I disagree with your Dennis read.
the 'prophecy' post. I think my bigger issue is that there was VERY minimal discussion towards Sig being W from Neon prior to this. Perhaps it could be interpreted from the posts above, but it feels like we missed some steps to get to 'we'll I'll look like I'm bussing if I vote who I think is scum'. Not a good look without that data I think.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:26 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:13 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:11 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:11 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:18 am

There's a 97.8% chance there's at most 1 wolf there.
There’s only 2 so like that’s half?
Yes. Now that we've all done math.

At most 1 but possibly 0
Right, but you’re making it seem like 1 wolf isn’t alot when in a game of this size it is
That's not what I've done at all.

What I've done is made it apparent I'd rather find the wolf(s) that are actively effecting the game state and not shoot the fish in the (slanker) barrel
Still arguing game theory as opposed to alignment.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:29 pm Hmmm... Mac might be wolf.

It's not a perfect read but it is one I've used before where wolfs try to discredit the top posters in a game and throw suspicion on to them to prevent their thread control and change the direction of the thread.

With Mac throwing sus on Sig and me he's pushing the 2 top posters in this game and I know he's just wrong on me. The problem lies in that I think he's right on Sig...
A Sig push but a non-committal one. This is like oddly layer 1 Mac may be bad layer 2 my Sig read is based on Mac who may be bad. This is a janky post now that I read it in context of W Sig. Bad look.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:30 am
Matahari wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:45 pm Thank you for the answers I got earlier today, it helped me to understand a few things better. I may try an early vote sometime.
I’m still confused though as to who I should vote. I’ve had 2 suspicions, and I’m doubting myself on one of them.
So, I noticed Neon was completely different than in the only other game I’ve seen her in, where she was town. When MacDougall, who I think is town, said he kind of thought Neon was town, I let it go. Then he said he was sure she was wolf and I felt kind of relieved, like maybe my spidey senses aren’t completely fried yet.
But my other suspicion is the one I’m really baffled about. I don’t think Kate is town, but everyone else does. Well, except Sig, but that’s a whole other issue. I’m trying to keep an open mind and tell myself I’m reading her wrong, that I’ve not played with her enough lately to make a good judgement call, but Kate, you just don’t seem like your town self to me.
I thought the way you voted Sig showed nervousness. Like your first reason wasn’t good enough, so you had to give a second reason right away, and it just felt like you were nervous. And since then, you’ve seemed over eager/over confident? Maybe you’re just really happy to be playing and very sure you’ve caught a wolf. Idk. Anyway, I’m the only one suspecting you, so I hope I’m wrong. Of course, if Sig flips wolf, then I’ll know for sure if I’m reading you wrong.
I have MacDougall, Falcon, Dennis, SVS as probable town for now, and not sure about Daisy yet.
I actually don't necessarily think Kate is town. Kinda actually think Sig and Kate is a diff check
We think Sig/Kate is a dif check is very bold and we can take some behavior analysis to see if Neon actually believes this.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:15 am
Kate wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:00 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:24 am
Kate wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:33 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:31 pm Mac, neon, Wilgy and falcon are likely all town
So which one of these is your partner?
Obviously me
This was supposed to be kind of tongue in cheek. I don't suspect you atm.
Maybe you should

you shouldn't
Sus
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:17 am There's like a 50/50 chance I'm back for EoD so

[VOTE: Sig] aubergine
Votes Sig again with a potential of not being back. Decent.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:27 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:11 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:04 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:03 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:49 am

It’s a tone:gut read
But when I had a gut read it was bullshit?
Since it stopped being a gut read to become a “well it’s since he used a no you” to a “well it was a slip that made it”

So yes

You’re finding fake reasons to Reenforce a fake gut read.
Isn't that just the normal evolution of a gut read?

Gut > Solid > Tinfoil > Solid?
Yes. Sigs gut read not evolving is weirder than Kate's gutread evolving
This is also a decent look for Neon.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:33 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:14 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:11 pm My biggest issue with neon would be she threw out some Sus on Mac but then is voting with him. Also upon a quick reread she’s much less active than what I’d expect from her town game.

I know I’m civ so that’s the preferred wagon, but I’m not married to it.
It's also kind of uncool to pile on her when she said she won't be back. But hey, you do you.
Technically I said 50% chance lol
This interaction also looks good for Neon. Feels like Sig is attempting to justify a vote on Neon.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:37 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:32 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:31 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:25 pm Bottom line? So many mafia make this mistake D1 of trying to vote me off for weak reasoning. Half the time they get caught and half the time I get mislynched.

Sabi trying it in GoC is the most recently example.

That’s what Kates trying to do here.
You... were hostile 3P in GoC though.
Not mafia though so the misvote attempt still applies
This logic does not compute.
Sig discredits Neon's analysis and Neon clashes with it. Another good look.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:41 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:39 pm Question is whether it really matters.

Can you two get on the same page about a c/w to your wagons? Doesn't seem like you guys agree about anyone in particular both having individual pet scum reads.
Probably not

Let's play a game of would I vote this player

The Players

Dennis - yes
Dr Wigly - yes
falcon45ca - yes
Kate - no
MacDougall - no
Matahari - no
Neon- no
sig - maybe
SixStrings - yes
Spacedaisy - no
S~V~S - not today cause that feels dirty
This is where Neon starts to feel odd. Like There's contradiction in this and the posts following. Neon discourages a CW to both Sig/Neon in unison.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:50 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:46 pm I also super don't understand what the three of you are taking issue with sig on the gut read progression thing?

Are you trying to make out that being a hypocrite is wolfy? It's not. Being a hypocrite is towny because you have confbias in your alignment so don't view yourself as capable of being wolfy so can suspect others for things you're doing. Wolves are less hypocritical in that way.
My problem is I thought Sig/Kate was a diff check and I thought Sig was wolfier overall but now I'm kinda thinking it's just T v T which is fucking with my world view cause Kates general progression is towny itself I think.
Undoes the dif check.
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:52 pm [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine
Then in spite of disagreeing with Mac, Neon does it. Why are we all over the place?
Neon I think looks to be the best in appearance OF the people I'd keep in the PoE. Which is now Mata, Six, Mac and Neon. I think that there's alot of evidence that Neon did legitimately suspect Sig early, BUT there was a lack of explanation that makes it hard to remove Neon from PoE. The implication of a dif check into no dif check, thinking mac was right but also wolf, and not going to cw alongside sig but then doing exactly that all show evidence of inconsistency that can be interpreted as either alignment. Maybe Neon was legitimately in a state of being unsure and the reads developed, maybe Neon got stuck in a theatre with a teammate and tried to eject awkwardly. Hard to say.
What does this mean?

Based just on the cross of our POEs, I'd be looking squarely at Mac.

Neon advised there was a Kate Sig Dif check and then decided nah, it's tvt. Which is just weird thing to do as town. Town I don't think suggests a dif check unless they are sold on it entirely, so to takesy baxy is what I think makes this weird.

Neon ISO

Spoiler: show

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:09 am
sig wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:02 pm I’m 100% committed to voting off anyone that votes cake in this poll.

Also anyone that voted apple slices are third party. And I don’t want to hear “the set up doesn’t say anything about third party sig”
True I'm a town siding 3P survivor.

Jokey on the first interaction

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:40 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:36 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:35 am
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:09 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:47 am
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:13 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:17 am I know at least 1 wolf so far.
Is it you?
no
Is it me?
Maybe it’s the friends we made along the way?

Buuuuut, it’s probably Mac for trying to end the fluff phase early and reading fluff as anything other than NAI

GG guys I solved the game
That sounds pretty normal to me tbh

Pockets Mac by disolving Sig's opposition to Mac's non fluff posting. Not really a Sig interaction, but at least shows a spark of contention.

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:42 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:29 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:54 am Also some fluff is fluff and other fluff is fur trying to look like fluff so to suggest fluff isn't readable is at best, incorrect.
Do you think mafia isn’t capable of making fluff posts?

I’d say the fluff heavy players can do said fluff as town or mafia since there isn’t some secondary meaning to it.
I've never fluffed as mafia

More yokes

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:37 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:15 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:12 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:06 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:02 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:58 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:56 pm

I almost certainly do.

I don’t see how you can see it as anything other than seed planting.
Other things it could be include; a real thought, a reaction test, a complete joke, blindness and dizziness, flatulence, nausea and death.
Mac is lock town lol

Also I love you Mac.
No
Yes. It's okay your free to be wrong but Mac is the most obvious towny I've ever seen in a N0 lol.
Okay, but if he’s pocketing you and deep wolfing imma whine about it next game.
Wouldn't be the first time I've been pocketed hopelessly.

Won't be the first time I don't care either.

Good look for Neon I think. I don't think Sig would go out of their way to think 'If I say my teammate is being Pocketed, this implies I know they are town and that's how I'll distance.' It's more likely Sig just knew Neon was town and therefore pocketable.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:20 am
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:24 pm @Neon i don’t think sig is mafia so you shouldn’t sheep mac
Mmm [VOTE: Sig] aubergine

I dont know if Neon answers their one teammate like that. A minor good look.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:24 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:06 pm I'll caveat that with so many slankers I could be wrong easily but I started off thinking that the part where Neon was townreading me and you accused me of Omgus was a weird projection of what she was doing to me. So I decided to townlock her to see if she'd do the expected from a position of feeling confident she had me pocketed ie. shield you and not sheep me. Which she did do. She voted you briefly and got her vote off you asap onto my townread. I got no real doubt Neon is mafia here.

Wilgy is sus outside of this but he agreed with my fake townread on Neon in a very scummy way.

You're actually the one of the 3 reads I'm less confident on but only because twtbw.
See I'll murder Sig.

But the thing is that won't clear me either will it because lol Neon busses.

I'm not shielding sig just because I disagree with your Dennis read.

the 'prophecy' post. I think my bigger issue is that there was VERY minimal discussion towards Sig being W from Neon prior to this. Perhaps it could be interpreted from the posts above, but it feels like we missed some steps to get to 'we'll I'll look like I'm bussing if I vote who I think is scum'. Not a good look without that data I think.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:26 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:13 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:11 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:11 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:18 am
Kate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:21 pm
sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:18 pm Also (and the real reason why I came in here)

I’m betting the entire mafia team (of two lol) isn’t someone actively posting
Here are your "low posters." Discuss.
There's a 97.8% chance there's at most 1 wolf there.
There’s only 2 so like that’s half?
Yes. Now that we've all done math.

At most 1 but possibly 0
Right, but you’re making it seem like 1 wolf isn’t alot when in a game of this size it is
That's not what I've done at all.

What I've done is made it apparent I'd rather find the wolf(s) that are actively effecting the game state and not shoot the fish in the (slanker) barrel

Still arguing game theory as opposed to alignment.

Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:29 pm Hmmm... Mac might be wolf.

It's not a perfect read but it is one I've used before where wolfs try to discredit the top posters in a game and throw suspicion on to them to prevent their thread control and change the direction of the thread.

With Mac throwing sus on Sig and me he's pushing the 2 top posters in this game and I know he's just wrong on me. The problem lies in that I think he's right on Sig...

A Sig push but a non-committal one. This is like oddly layer 1 Mac may be bad layer 2 my Sig read is based on Mac who may be bad. This is a janky post now that I read it in context of W Sig. Bad look.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:30 am
Matahari wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:45 pm Thank you for the answers I got earlier today, it helped me to understand a few things better. I may try an early vote sometime.
I’m still confused though as to who I should vote. I’ve had 2 suspicions, and I’m doubting myself on one of them.
So, I noticed Neon was completely different than in the only other game I’ve seen her in, where she was town. When MacDougall, who I think is town, said he kind of thought Neon was town, I let it go. Then he said he was sure she was wolf and I felt kind of relieved, like maybe my spidey senses aren’t completely fried yet.
But my other suspicion is the one I’m really baffled about. I don’t think Kate is town, but everyone else does. Well, except Sig, but that’s a whole other issue. I’m trying to keep an open mind and tell myself I’m reading her wrong, that I’ve not played with her enough lately to make a good judgement call, but Kate, you just don’t seem like your town self to me.
I thought the way you voted Sig showed nervousness. Like your first reason wasn’t good enough, so you had to give a second reason right away, and it just felt like you were nervous. And since then, you’ve seemed over eager/over confident? Maybe you’re just really happy to be playing and very sure you’ve caught a wolf. Idk. Anyway, I’m the only one suspecting you, so I hope I’m wrong. Of course, if Sig flips wolf, then I’ll know for sure if I’m reading you wrong.
I have MacDougall, Falcon, Dennis, SVS as probable town for now, and not sure about Daisy yet.
I actually don't necessarily think Kate is town. Kinda actually think Sig and Kate is a diff check

We think Sig/Kate is a dif check is very bold and we can take some behavior analysis to see if Neon actually believes this.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:15 am
Kate wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:00 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:24 am
Kate wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:33 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:31 pm Mac, neon, Wilgy and falcon are likely all town
So which one of these is your partner?
Obviously me
This was supposed to be kind of tongue in cheek. I don't suspect you atm.
Maybe you should

you shouldn't

Sus

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:17 am There's like a 50/50 chance I'm back for EoD so

[VOTE: Sig] aubergine

Votes Sig again with a potential of not being back. Decent.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:27 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:11 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:04 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:03 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:49 am
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:43 am Still no reason to not vote Sig.

Slip aside, his insisting that Falcon and I were town so early without due cause felt TMI. I don't have a reason to tr like I do the others.
It’s a tone:gut read
But when I had a gut read it was bullshit?
Since it stopped being a gut read to become a “well it’s since he used a no you” to a “well it was a slip that made it”

So yes

You’re finding fake reasons to Reenforce a fake gut read.
Isn't that just the normal evolution of a gut read?

Gut > Solid > Tinfoil > Solid?
Yes. Sigs gut read not evolving is weirder than Kate's gutread evolving

This is also a decent look for Neon.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:33 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:14 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:11 pm My biggest issue with neon would be she threw out some Sus on Mac but then is voting with him. Also upon a quick reread she’s much less active than what I’d expect from her town game.

I know I’m civ so that’s the preferred wagon, but I’m not married to it.
It's also kind of uncool to pile on her when she said she won't be back. But hey, you do you.
Technically I said 50% chance lol

This interaction also looks good for Neon. Feels like Sig is attempting to justify a vote on Neon.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:37 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:32 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:31 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:25 pm Bottom line? So many mafia make this mistake D1 of trying to vote me off for weak reasoning. Half the time they get caught and half the time I get mislynched.

Sabi trying it in GoC is the most recently example.

That’s what Kates trying to do here.
You... were hostile 3P in GoC though.
Not mafia though so the misvote attempt still applies
This logic does not compute.

Sig discredits Neon's analysis and Neon clashes with it. Another good look.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:41 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:39 pm Question is whether it really matters.

Can you two get on the same page about a c/w to your wagons? Doesn't seem like you guys agree about anyone in particular both having individual pet scum reads.
Probably not

Let's play a game of would I vote this player

The Players

Dennis - yes
Dr Wigly - yes
falcon45ca - yes
Kate - no
MacDougall - no
Matahari - no
Neon- no
sig - maybe
SixStrings - yes
Spacedaisy - no
S~V~S - not today cause that feels dirty

This is where Neon starts to feel odd. Like There's contradiction in this and the posts following. Neon discourages a CW to both Sig/Neon in unison.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:50 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:46 pm I also super don't understand what the three of you are taking issue with sig on the gut read progression thing?

Are you trying to make out that being a hypocrite is wolfy? It's not. Being a hypocrite is towny because you have confbias in your alignment so don't view yourself as capable of being wolfy so can suspect others for things you're doing. Wolves are less hypocritical in that way.
My problem is I thought Sig/Kate was a diff check and I thought Sig was wolfier overall but now I'm kinda thinking it's just T v T which is fucking with my world view cause Kates general progression is towny itself I think.

Undoes the dif check.

Neon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:52 pm [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

Then in spite of disagreeing with Mac, Neon does it. Why are we all over the place?

Neon I think looks to be the best in appearance OF the people I'd keep in the PoE. Which is now Mata, Six, Mac and Neon. I think that there's alot of evidence that Neon did legitimately suspect Sig early, BUT there was a lack of explanation that makes it hard to remove Neon from PoE. The implication of a dif check into no dif check, thinking mac was right but also wolf, and not going to cw alongside sig but then doing exactly that all show evidence of inconsistency that can be interpreted as either alignment. Maybe Neon was legitimately in a state of being unsure and the reads developed, maybe Neon got stuck in a theatre with a teammate and tried to eject awkwardly. Hard to say.

Ho boi... Time for Neon ISO.

This shall be the fitting theme for this one.

Spoiler: show

S~V~S re Sig

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:31 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:01 am
S~V~S wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:15 am Hey y'all,

I wanted to let you know I had a death in my family. It was my uncle, and we weren't close, but he was my Dads younger brother and he's pretty broken up, so I'm going to go hang with him today, and probably tomorrow, and will be AFK. I should be back to catch up in the evening so I can make an informed vote.

Thanks for patience.
Love you
Love you too and gonna trust your judgment. You don’t do aggro when you have teammates, in general, especially on day one.

Don’t love a sig vote as he gets miselimmed alot, or used to, but I don’t know what the other case is. Sorry dog if I’m wrong.

Early defense of Sig when the pressure was lighter

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:57 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:49 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:26 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:27 am
sig wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:16 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:08 am @sig got any reads that don't involve me?
Yes sir

Wilgy, Falcon, you, are solid town. The first two for tone and how their banter came across. Now you might say sig didjt you just say fluff is NAI? Well yes I did but whatever.

Neon and SVS are light town reads. SVS responded well to the push and Neon is posting as she normally does.

Kate is my leading mafia read right now. I think she very opportunistically jumped on my wagon and she always pokes/votes me when I’m mafia.

I’d also bet 100% the other mafia member is a low poster but not in the screenshot she sent over.

You’re welcome I solved the game.
Yeet.
When she’s mafia is obviously what I mean. I blame phone postinh

@S~V~S
Thanks sig. I could see why she thought that. I would have thought that too.

I could also see your explanation, I also get flak for semantics. But the fact that your go to has been, “She’s bad”, hasn’t helped you.

Your reaction to her suspicion, whether valid or not, looks off to me.

My only experience with bad Neon is Holes, and I don’t think she looks anything like that here. Zero.

Pivots into pushing Sig.

With what few posts S~V~S gave on the Sig cerfunkle, I don't think it's alignment indicative. I think SVS even busy would've gone on Neon given the opportunity.

Dennis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:09 pm So how's your day going Wilgy

I should be writing code for work, but want to get PoEs done before the NK. I think the valid targets are Kate, Me and Daisy so far. I'd hate to get shot before leaving the thread something.

Daisy ISO re Sig:

Spoiler: show

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:25 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:54 pm
I’ll dig it up this weekend. It involves dried cranberries and orange liqueur to rehydrate the berries. OMFG it’s awesome. She also made it with dried cherries and Cherry Kijafa.
Orange and cranberry are one of my favorite flavor combinations.

Kate wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:58 pm And what, pray tell, did you have for dessert??
ice cream actually. Mint chocolate Viennetta.

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:17 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:26 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:37 pm Spacedaisy didn't vote either cake OR pie
Alas, I made the dreadful mistake of eating dinner and spending time with my husband before finishing my catch up.
Nevermind spacedaisy is bad for maintaining real life relationships and not putting our poll about cake and pie first
Sound logic. [VOTE: Daisy] aubergine

Matahari wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:58 am Sherry, I’m sorry to hear your news. My condolences to you and your family.
Proud slanker here. I’m usually pretty quiet during the first two days, but by day 3, I never seem to stop talking.
I’ve played maybe 7 games in the last 6 years that are not classic games, and it still blows my mind the way people throw votes out so early on day 1. I understand that sometimes the votes are just a way to engage a player and get them to talk, but sometimes it’s not. So I’m going to ask a question (hypothetical situation, actually) and I would really like to hear ppl’s thoughts about it. I understand though, if you would prefer not to discuss this, as it might interfere with your personal strategy. Ok, here goes:

The hosts post that there has been a lice outbreak in the nursery/playroom, and everyone has to go home for the day so the room can be decontaminated. Everyone has 1 hour to either vote or abstain. What would you do?

I’d really like to hear what people would do, but again, I understand if you prefer to keep your thought private.
I always struggle at the beginning of games and recently find it really difficult to stay engaged in games. It's why I don't play often anymore, so I feel you on the slanker thing. Also, this was the most creative GTH read request I've ever seen and I love it, lol.

I'm leaning sig or Neon atm.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:25 am You okay? Did you get lost during catch up!
Honestly, not all the great. While the situation with the original anxiety is mostly resolved and life isn't bad, there is a general malaise that hangs on at the moment. My hormones are probably being little bitches and fucking with me, honestly. Also, the Friday-Monday time frame tends to be when I am doing the most work. I've been pretty buried in work files the last couple days. So it's a little of this, little of that. But it's not a great excuse, because it's unfair to the other players and hosts. Sorry.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:44 am
See I'll murder Sig.

But the thing is that won't clear me either will it because lol Neon busses.

I'm not shielding sig just because I disagree with your Dennis read.

This reads like she knows sigs flip already
Mind meld on this one.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:52 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:44 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:24 pm
See I'll murder Sig.

But the thing is that won't clear me either will it because lol Neon busses.

I'm not shielding sig just because I disagree with your Dennis read.

This reads like she knows sigs flip already
Hmm... This is a good observation.
Mind meld.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:11 pm
Isn't that just the normal evolution of a gut read?

Gut > Solid > Tinfoil > Solid?
Mind meld.

Ok so...

MacDougall is my only solid town read atm. That thing he pulled where he put out fake reads to see the reactions is a frequent town maneuver that I've noticed him doing.

I didn't think anything of the supposed slip that Kate was talking about. However, I do think what Neon said is sus. This combined with the fact that sig seemed like he was poking around trying to see what would stick. My only fear here is that sig has frequently got yeeted day 1 over the years for being weird. But I'm going to go with my gut here because he's the one I feel the most scum lean on. Instead of scum hunting, it felt like he spent the day throwing spaghetti at the wall and discrediting Kate for what looked to me like a normal read progression.

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

This is solid. I don't tink it's aligned in the slightest.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:37 pm
sig wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:26 pm Kinda rich coming from someone who’s made 1 on topic post.
I mean, I did just read most of the relevant posts in a sitting, it can give a little perspective. But I'm just doing the best I can with Day 1, there is never much to go on, but you feel like the best bet to me, all things considered. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

And this isn't theatre

Daisy and Sig are not aligned 98% of the time.

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