The Syndicate

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 10:02 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:59 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:55 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:48 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:47 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:19 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:17 pm I do find the tedxtr wagon a bit weird, none of the three voters on the wagon are particularly inspiring. Can someone reiterate the case against them?

Well, pyxxy is the only voter who might have a "case", as RDB seems to be simple OMGUS and Bereft just seems to be roleplaying. It is a little concerning that a wagon with so little substance is ahead however.

HAhahaha. [VOTE: neon ] aubergine

So when called out on your vote, you just switch with no elaboration? Also, did TSP influence your choice of target?

You must be new here.

[/vote] Dyslexicon [/vote]

I've been here longer than you. Also, that's not exactly a bold vote you're making.

Sure maybe in chronological but you obviously havent been around lately or you wouldnt be responding to me the way you are. Notice how everyone else in the game barring Gira and Tedxtr have all just been chill with how I have been acting? Its because they are aware of me. You arent. Ergo. Not from around here [VOTE: bereft ] aubergine

The way in which you just cycled your vote onto bereft subtly while talking about a range of other things is duly noted.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:55 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:50 pm Am I self resolving?

I have no idea, you tell me! You and I are at very different ends of the playstyle spectrum. Which is why I'm putting effort into trying to talk to you, I resolved to try and engage players like you more instead of just schmoozing with Logical Tryhard Crew. What's the best way for us to tell if you're a wolf?

I take offense

I kind of think TSP is mafia here. TSP has this really impressive way of getting townread for shit that usually only pleb level players get townread for like he's read by good players as a bad one and it's strictly untrue. I am sensing more of TSP's quality wolfplay here than his mafia play.

Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:18 pm

yooo who's up for a MU Anni D1 re-enactment

As much as this wagon seems bad, I actually townread all three of the voters and scumread Insomnia.

I am intentionally disregarding any ATE in this game, especially from Robyn who weaponises it.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:07 pm If we are going to roll the dice better to do it on Abigail imo

I don't really think you can say that Ran and Robyn are self resolving and then say this is a better chop. Also I am townreading Abigail, why are you sheeping me townreading Gira but ignoring my townread on Abigail?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:05 pm Here’s the situation: not all is right. We’re about to limp into the stupidest looking bereft chop I’ve ever seen. It’s probably rand and there are somewhat good reasons not to do that. So then, who’s in this game who should know better? I promise I didn’t just immediately jump to the two voters on Bereft for the record, I think that looks slightly towny. Leetic seems to have lost a bit of the edge, can’t tell why. WWA is posting a lot but has no thread control nor have they attempted to wrest it. I won’t vote for Mac or dizzy day 1. Ted seems alright. Mac’s defending Gira. I won’t vote Rondo D1 for opposite reasons. Ran and Robyn are self resolving.

I agree, as much as it may be hard to believe I can see flickering town solving in Bereft's posts even. I would prefer they not die.

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:58 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:57 pm maybe I am

give me a full readslist so i can try to imagine what possible sensible worldview you’ve converted yourself into

And here Robyn is in the deplatforming mode. Instead of pocketing, they are doing this to TSP because TSP has displayed a lack of confidence and waiveriness in their approach. It's like a predator recognising prey.

When the person is feeble, attack them.

When the person is not feeble, suck up to them.

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:35 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:34 pm I feel like I'm talking out of my ass and should probably go to sleep.

[VOTE: Bereft] aubergine

Good night lol.

seems me calling you beautiful has pocketed u

Robyn is also prone to doing things like this as mafia. Openwolfing so they can point back at it later and say "heh i even told you i was pocketing you".

pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:56 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:48 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:10 pm @Dyslexicon I have read your posts... I don't have much to say in response that isn't obvious or already said. If you are town, we can really use your head in the game, please keep on keepin on, read as much as you are able and give us your thoughts, and don't feel like "oh no ran is dead set on killing me" because that is not the case, unless you are a wolf in which case it is the case. But regardless very happy to finally get a game with you <3

It is at this point that a feeling that I have had already has now fully crystalised to a point where I feel the need to say it aloud.

Ran is such obvious town that anyone who has scumread them whatsoever is entirely suspicious with perhaps the sole exception of leetic.

oo oo oo sus me daddy mac

Outline your concerns with them.

I will add that Mafia Robyn also subscribes to the same school as I do that the mafia alignment should be played to its own wincon. ie. They don't particularly play the same style of game when town as they do as mafia, because the primary agenda of the town is to solve the game and the primary agenda of the wolf is to survive it and avoid detection, so playing the game the same doesn't actually make much sense.

Doing the above reasonably should end up making someone easy to read and polarised, and to me, Robyn kind of has been the last few times I've played with them. But when done correctly, that is to say when one is very active and goes about saying a lot of the right things and the right times, you don't need to look like your town self. This is why Robyn pays particular attention to trying to play around or specifically at certain players who can read them better. Like Dizzy and myself. They will place significant focus on trying to pocket exactly us, and when that fails they will try to deplatform.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:13 pm @MacDougall Can you explain like I'm 5 how you think Robyn has not been towny?

In Robyn I do not see someone who has an agenda to solve the mafia game, but I see someone who has an agenda to appear like they are town and mostly just charm people.

The feeling I get from town Robyn is usually one that is more anxious and concerned with figuring out what everyone is up to. Town Robyn by process ends up getting overtly emotional and irritated.

Mafia Robyn has more emotional control over themselves, and they often end up one step ahead of everyone. They are particularly good at pocketing people by saying specific things that are designed to achieve that goal. For instance Robyn is aware that I have a predisposition for townreading people for lack of TMI and pushing me. Robyn threatened to scumread me earlier for daring to suspect them. But then they didn't, and chose to give me space instead.

I can sense in all of our interactions that Robyn is largely holding their breath and just trying to avoid having me outright bury them. Since I started posting all that Robyn has really done is crack jokes and react.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:10 pm @Dyslexicon I have read your posts... I don't have much to say in response that isn't obvious or already said. If you are town, we can really use your head in the game, please keep on keepin on, read as much as you are able and give us your thoughts, and don't feel like "oh no ran is dead set on killing me" because that is not the case, unless you are a wolf in which case it is the case. But regardless very happy to finally get a game with you <3

It is at this point that a feeling that I have had already has now fully crystalised to a point where I feel the need to say it aloud.

Ran is such obvious town that anyone who has scumread them whatsoever is entirely suspicious with perhaps the sole exception of leetic.

Let me tell you that when I finish my catch up. I've got about 5 pages.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:25 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:06 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:05 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:53 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:36 pm I've caught up and retained almost nothing I read this is bad


But I'm starting to think Dyslexicon might actually be town lol

I don't buy that Dyslexicon is incapable of making that long post as mafia. It was perhaps slightly towny, so I buy you placing too much emphasis on it though.

Can you elaborate on what you found "slightly towny"?

Effort level. The Gira read was okay. Their treatment of you lacked agenda.

If you find that post "slightly towny", why are you still voting for Dyslexicon?

I voted for Dyslexicon when I made my initial read.

They made a slightly towny post.

Dyslexicon as mafia is capable of slightly towny posts.

They otherwise have not yet moved the needle enough for me to move the vote.

I also think us seeing Robyn as suspicious is perhaps indicative that they are town. Or perhaps that Robyn is and they are not.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:05 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:53 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:36 pm I've caught up and retained almost nothing I read this is bad


But I'm starting to think Dyslexicon might actually be town lol

I don't buy that Dyslexicon is incapable of making that long post as mafia. It was perhaps slightly towny, so I buy you placing too much emphasis on it though.

Can you elaborate on what you found "slightly towny"?

Effort level. The Gira read was okay. Their treatment of you lacked agenda.

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:04 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:59 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:55 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:53 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:36 pm I've caught up and retained almost nothing I read this is bad


But I'm starting to think Dyslexicon might actually be town lol

I don't buy that Dyslexicon is incapable of making that long post as mafia. It was perhaps slightly towny, so I buy you placing too much emphasis on it though.

You are missing the point by a large margin here. =p

I wasn't trying to read into any point you were making? In fact I read your entire post and found nothing you said all that insightful tbh. What point did I miss?

did you miss all the gay bdsm commentary or something? i found it to be extremely nietzschean and insightful, it should be published really

In fact, yes. But that must have occurred prior to the content that would have encouraged Abigail to give Dizzy a townread.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:02 pm I think I'm pretty good at what I do and don't think I exaggerate things but... maybe I'm wrong ig

When it comes to players who you think have range, you are bias to hyper fixating on them and frequently one post read them for level 1 stuff. You do it to me all the time.

I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with it, and you may even be right. But I don't think Dyslexicon's posts are there yet, and believe me I'm trying to find them town here.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:53 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:36 pm I've caught up and retained almost nothing I read this is bad


But I'm starting to think Dyslexicon might actually be town lol

I don't buy that Dyslexicon is incapable of making that long post as mafia. It was perhaps slightly towny, so I buy you placing too much emphasis on it though.

Actually harmful

I don't consider your bias to overexaggerating minor points to be a slight against you. It's just something I observe.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:55 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:53 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:36 pm I've caught up and retained almost nothing I read this is bad


But I'm starting to think Dyslexicon might actually be town lol

I don't buy that Dyslexicon is incapable of making that long post as mafia. It was perhaps slightly towny, so I buy you placing too much emphasis on it though.

You are missing the point by a large margin here. =p

I wasn't trying to read into any point you were making? In fact I read your entire post and found nothing you said all that insightful tbh. What point did I miss?

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:36 pm I've caught up and retained almost nothing I read this is bad


But I'm starting to think Dyslexicon might actually be town lol

I don't buy that Dyslexicon is incapable of making that long post as mafia. It was perhaps slightly towny, so I buy you placing too much emphasis on it though.

I think Pyxxy is kind of towny for entitlement reasons. It's something of a one post read but I actually think Pyxxy is fairly polarised. Their comfort level and care factor is a high/low when town and inversed when mafia.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:38 pm

Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:32 pm i'm going to just assume at least some of the townreads on tsp are tmi on his alignment and take him as town because usually when someone is getting defended and i don't really see it that's what's going on. i just don't know who is doing it as of right now

ran's seemed the most worrisome, but dizzy / ran prob aren't w/w, so we'll have to see

i prob would've still voted rondo, but he's afk. no fun

what was worrisome about it?

Ran and Rondo are two of my strongest townreads.

Downplaying your viability of scumreading Ran by presenting a false dichotomy is very wolfy.

Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:32 pm i'm going to just assume at least some of the townreads on tsp are tmi on his alignment and take him as town because usually when someone is getting defended and i don't really see it that's what's going on. i just don't know who is doing it as of right now

I was somewhat thinking the same.

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:23 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:12 pm

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:07 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:04 pm

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:58 pm @MacDougall why do you suspect insomnia (ted)

Summarily I don't think his solving is of a high enough standard. The lines he's taking and questions he's asking are below his usual stances and kind of level 1.

There's also a weird dynamic with Syndicate Insom versus MU Insom. To me they are almost like two different people in the way they play. They even have two different mental models in my head with different voices.

i’ve mashed with him and he’s capable of complex thought as both alignments (as w/w), besides that i think he’s taken an interesting position of defending me here, correctly too

and i’m taking everything right now in contrast to that one semi anonymous game where i was derpy nemo and you hard pocketed me, otherwise i would assume you were simply a wolf here

I'm aware but I trust my instincts somewhat on him. I would also add that his read on you is specifically one of the reads that I don't like and contributed to me sorting him into the bottom part of my solve with you.

I don't understand your second point or even remember the game. That your immediate inclination would be to scumread me for pushing you only demonstrates your approach to solving me remains flawed.

i expect you at bare minimum to read me correctly

Then your expectations aren't reasonable. Given my process in a mafia game is to make reads then constantly sanity check my own reads via re-evaluation I'm going to consistently be scumread by you for simply following my own process. If you think that taking a policy approach to omgussing me is valid I would argue that all it will do is force me to do the same when patience would allow me to find you relatively fast with my organic process.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:19 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:17 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:09 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:59 pm It doesn't mean that your intent in doing it cannot be read into.

Also, I've stated my intentions here multiple times. Yes, a wolf can lie, but I don't know why a wolf would be so open here.

I know you've stated that it's part of your approach to mafia but you said that to someone who wasn't me and instead of treating me with the respect of just giving me fair and straight answers you've been even more hostile to me than you were to the others and taking the interaction seemingly offensively so I've not even had a chance yet to actually engage with you on that subject as I've had to continuously back and forth with you to respond to the questions you've been asking.

For someone whose stated goal is to force content to generate interactions its quite ... dumb ... yes dumb is the word I'll use ... how poorly you handle others doing it to you.

If a "case" on me is lame, I'm not gonna pretend otherwise. I don't expect all the people I push to be nice to me, in fact if they were overly nice I'd see that as a red flag.

Leetic lets just reset here because its devolving into negativity and doesnt need to.

All this started from me simply wondering why you've taken an overly aggressive approach to the mafia game Its not a case and I was asking it with an entirely open mind about your alignment. I didn't say you were mafia or town prior to the asking and have yet to do so.

It is a reasonable question to ask given your aggression was focused primarily towards players I'm townreading given I'm trying to flesh out an accurate total worldview of the game. Determining your alignment helps me generate further confidence, or diminishes it as well as helping me place you within it.

I'm simply trying to explore your thoughts to help my own solve, there's no prejudice or agenda behind it.

Bereft wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:15 pm I explore the rest of the storage room. It's disorienting.

There's a cigarette in a corner, I like it, too bad I quit smoking many years ago to enjoy it now.
Next to it there's a bath ducky, I like it too, but, ... I feel like someone wants me to hate this ducky. It feels wrong.

I want to stop rummaging.

The cigarette is tryharding in a mafia game.

The bath ducky is an allegory for your read on probably me.

@tedxtr is your list upper and lower town or town and poe? Either way I'd like some elaboration on your TSP read.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:09 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:59 pm It doesn't mean that your intent in doing it cannot be read into.

Also, I've stated my intentions here multiple times. Yes, a wolf can lie, but I don't know why a wolf would be so open here.

I know you've stated that it's part of your approach to mafia but you said that to someone who wasn't me and instead of treating me with the respect of just giving me fair and straight answers you've been even more hostile to me than you were to the others and taking the interaction seemingly offensively so I've not even had a chance yet to actually engage with you on that subject as I've had to continuously back and forth with you to respond to the questions you've been asking.

For someone whose stated goal is to force content to generate interactions its quite ... dumb ... yes dumb is the word I'll use ... how poorly you handle others doing it to you.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:11 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:09 pm leetic just said that my cpl paragraph post is "a whole lot of nothing to try to make up a reason why I could be a wolf". I invite people to read it and tell me if they agree.

Have you ever played with Leetic?

Yes but as I've said a few times I haven't patterned any meta to memory aside from generally thinking they were a fairly warm person and maybe somewhat easy to read.

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:07 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:04 pm

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:58 pm @MacDougall why do you suspect insomnia (ted)

Summarily I don't think his solving is of a high enough standard. The lines he's taking and questions he's asking are below his usual stances and kind of level 1.

There's also a weird dynamic with Syndicate Insom versus MU Insom. To me they are almost like two different people in the way they play. They even have two different mental models in my head with different voices.

i’ve mashed with him and he’s capable of complex thought as both alignments (as w/w), besides that i think he’s taken an interesting position of defending me here, correctly too

and i’m taking everything right now in contrast to that one semi anonymous game where i was derpy nemo and you hard pocketed me, otherwise i would assume you were simply a wolf here

I'm aware but I trust my instincts somewhat on him. I would also add that his read on you is specifically one of the reads that I don't like and contributed to me sorting him into the bottom part of my solve with you.

I don't understand your second point or even remember the game. That your immediate inclination would be to scumread me for pushing you only demonstrates your approach to solving me remains flawed.

leetic just said that my cpl paragraph post is "a whole lot of nothing to try to make up a reason why I could be a wolf". I invite people to read it and tell me if they agree.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:06 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:59 pm Happy to be corrected if they criticised you first because if they did that unprompted then it would go a long way to explaining why you seemingly have your nose out of joint.

Windward criticized my GTH reads before my push on them. Not gonna really respond to the rest because it's a whole lot of nothing to try to make up a reason why I could be a wolf; you could have made your point in two sentences, not four paragraphs.

I don't think so. I was as succinct as I could have been and am being naught but direct and entirely sincere and you are leaving quite a lot of meat on the bone for someone whose stated goal is to be aggressive to generate interactions.

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:03 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:00 pm

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:54 pm

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:42 pm mmmm this game suddenly feels unsafe

i expected to find schweppes/wwa as town immediately, and i found wwa but not schweppes, and i'd prefer to have found schweppes

i expected dizzy/mac to be afraid of me (due to spec chat invitational), but i did not expect to be actively suspected, because for one i know both outside of the game. and i've played many many games with them

them suspecting me is either the needling that ran tried on me, or they're completely wrong, in the latter case isn't so much dangerous because of their alignments. instead it's because 1) i'm a towny that gets mischopped frequently 2) i can be pushed with impunity because i am a mystery box

idk, nothing is going how i expected it to so far and i don't doubt i'll be a wagon for the rest of d1 which is really fun!

Why would I be afraid of you due to spec chat invitational when I subbed into that game on day 4 and killed you as mafia nearly immediately?

because your entire reasoning for suspecting me was independent of my alignment, and almost everyone refuted most of what you said in regards to me and xan

So I should be afraid of you ... because I caught you for bad reasons?

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:58 pm @MacDougall why do you suspect insomnia (ted)

Summarily I don't think his solving is of a high enough standard. The lines he's taking and questions he's asking are below his usual stances and kind of level 1.

There's also a weird dynamic with Syndicate Insom versus MU Insom. To me they are almost like two different people in the way they play. They even have two different mental models in my head with different voices.

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:54 pm

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:42 pm mmmm this game suddenly feels unsafe

i expected to find schweppes/wwa as town immediately, and i found wwa but not schweppes, and i'd prefer to have found schweppes

i expected dizzy/mac to be afraid of me (due to spec chat invitational), but i did not expect to be actively suspected, because for one i know both outside of the game. and i've played many many games with them

them suspecting me is either the needling that ran tried on me, or they're completely wrong, in the latter case isn't so much dangerous because of their alignments. instead it's because 1) i'm a towny that gets mischopped frequently 2) i can be pushed with impunity because i am a mystery box

idk, nothing is going how i expected it to so far and i don't doubt i'll be a wagon for the rest of d1 which is really fun!

Why would I be afraid of you due to spec chat invitational when I subbed into that game on day 4 and killed you as mafia nearly immediately?

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:53 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:46 pm I'm not curious as to why you're pushing people I'm curious as to why the tone in doing so is so needlessly hostile. My view is that players like Ran and Wind are doing the most typical and reasonable "general purpose" solving of the game and you entered it like a tornado targeting exactly them. Going as far as to say their solving specifically was bad. From my perspective this could have and maybe did have the effect of discouraging the players I feel are the most towny from doing the things most towny. Instead of taking issue with players like Bereft and Dizzy for instance who are doing entirely not towny things you came in complaining about the quality of play being displayed by those displaying quality play?

A lot of this feels like CWAC and bad faith itself. I'm allowed to criticize the Windward and Ranmilla's posts, especially when they come in criticizing me! What exact standard are you calling their play "quality" and mine not? Further, if it is truly as "quality" as you say they are, shouldn't they be able to defend themselves easily? A push from an idiot shouldn't stop an actually good player from contributing! Overall, this reads as "rules for thee, but not for me" and a lame attempt at shading-without-actually-shading.

I don't know what CWAC means. You are permitted to do whatever you wish in a mafia game but the consequences are that you be asked to reason them out. I may be wrong but it certainly felt from reading your ISO that you were the one casting a wide net of judgement across the game first. Happy to be corrected if they criticised you first because if they did that unprompted then it would go a long way to explaining why you seemingly have your nose out of joint.

I'm not defending them. I'm trying to sort my read on you. You're misunderstanding my intent as more nefarious than it is and it's colouring your responses to me needlessly. I'm just looking for straightforward answers. Yes they can defend themselves, and I do believe they have done so. This is neither here nor there to my point. And you aren't an idiot, nor has your push stopped them playing the way they already were. It doesn't mean that your intent in doing it cannot be read into.

I am trying to determine whether your hostility stems from an agenda to disrupt good town play or whether it is just some part of your personality profile or approach to mafia. I've not had this experience with you before but I also dont strongly memorise everyone's meta. But my inclination is to assume it's not actually part of your common approach to mafia because my memory of you is that you're usually quite warm.

If my goal is the above, how should I have gone about it other than the way in which I have?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:31 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:26 am Oh I'm here if anyone wants to point at things and ask me to talk about them

me/myself/i

why are you not hype to play with me Mac? Is this love one sided? Whats going on?

Well it's probably a mix of a few things.

1. I am quite.
2. I am playing with a few people I've not played with in a while.
3. I don't really show hype much.
4. I had beers.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:32 am

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:31 am also rondo, mac has 0 posted so far

I dont care. Mac could be mafia this game and I am going to tank for him because I am just happy to be in a game with him for once in a long time. So if he is bad this game gotta kill me first

Aw you're such a sweetheart and so obviously not mafia.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:39 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:38 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:36 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:31 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:26 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:52 am leetic +: very active. aggrobots are >rand town. spouting a lot of mech nonsense.
leetic -: absolutely dive bombed thread health and town morale/cohesion. aggrobots can also be wolf. people spouting mech nonsense can very easily be wolf. their conclusions/readlist when asked were surprisingly weak for how forward they've played, tons of hedging, no real substantial reads at all besides joining me on the dizzy vote, their actual push targets have all sucked, projecting a defensive aura of "don't interact with me" in a way I often see from aggro mafia.

I do find it funny you're calling me out for supposedly hedging when nearly every "read" in that wallpost is a hedge. Plus, thanks for giving me another reason to call "thread health" a stupid concept

Thread health isn't a stupid concept but context is key.

The game is easier for mafia to navigate when townies are uncharitable to one another. But if the game is in a "healthy" threadstate and mafia are well ahead then uglifying it is sometimes a good idea.

At gamestart not really at all.

I'm not saying it's scummy for you but I don't quite follow why you entered the game this way and have seemingly maintained it though. I don't think that the reality of the solving quality of posts lines up with your appraisal of them.

It's easier to navigate for wolves when nobody is pushing anyone. Wolves thrive on predictability and hedginess, you have to actually push them to get anything meaningful done. What exactly are you doing to push the game forward?

I am presently trying to work out your alignment while allowing Robyn to bury themselves by simply existing. I'm also figuring out my base readslist and am currently trying to slot Pyxxy and you into the list I created earlier. I read your ISO to do so and noticed you had a lot of negative interactions with my townies.

How am I supposed to determine if someone is town if I don't push them?

This is a fairly bad question and shows you're not really engaging me in good faith.

I'm not curious as to why you're pushing people I'm curious as to why the tone in doing so is so needlessly hostile. My view is that players like Ran and Wind are doing the most typical and reasonable "general purpose" solving of the game and you entered it like a tornado targeting exactly them. Going as far as to say their solving specifically was bad. From my perspective this could have and maybe did have the effect of discouraging the players I feel are the most towny from doing the things most towny. Instead of taking issue with players like Bereft and Dizzy for instance who are doing entirely not towny things you came in complaining about the quality of play being displayed by those displaying quality play?

At any rate you can read people without necessarily pushing them. I have reads on lots of people I've not pushed. It's there in the word reading.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:38 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:22 pm I didn't know or had forgotten Bereft was Schweppes. It's kind of a little bit townier now that I do.

TOE

Abigail
Gira
Ran
Wind

POE

Robyn
Dizzy
Tedxtr

Yay me but why am I so high?

There are two lists. They aren't sorted. You are simply in the town one.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:36 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:31 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:26 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:52 am leetic +: very active. aggrobots are >rand town. spouting a lot of mech nonsense.
leetic -: absolutely dive bombed thread health and town morale/cohesion. aggrobots can also be wolf. people spouting mech nonsense can very easily be wolf. their conclusions/readlist when asked were surprisingly weak for how forward they've played, tons of hedging, no real substantial reads at all besides joining me on the dizzy vote, their actual push targets have all sucked, projecting a defensive aura of "don't interact with me" in a way I often see from aggro mafia.

I do find it funny you're calling me out for supposedly hedging when nearly every "read" in that wallpost is a hedge. Plus, thanks for giving me another reason to call "thread health" a stupid concept

Thread health isn't a stupid concept but context is key.

The game is easier for mafia to navigate when townies are uncharitable to one another. But if the game is in a "healthy" threadstate and mafia are well ahead then uglifying it is sometimes a good idea.

At gamestart not really at all.

I'm not saying it's scummy for you but I don't quite follow why you entered the game this way and have seemingly maintained it though. I don't think that the reality of the solving quality of posts lines up with your appraisal of them.

It's easier to navigate for wolves when nobody is pushing anyone. Wolves thrive on predictability and hedginess, you have to actually push them to get anything meaningful done. What exactly are you doing to push the game forward?

I am presently trying to work out your alignment while allowing Robyn to bury themselves by simply existing. I'm also figuring out my base readslist and am currently trying to slot Pyxxy and you into the list I created earlier. I read your ISO to do so and noticed you had a lot of negative interactions with my townies.

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:35 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:32 pm

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:30 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:27 pm @leetic I have mixed feelings about you. Your aggression and WIM seem there but you aren't being very charitable to anyone and the way you entered the game and immediately started engaging people was quite antagonistic and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a rational place. Why are you so aggressive in this game?

they struck me as me, similar to me but taken to an extreme level, and i think that mental model works

also makes “why are you so aggressive?” simply personality and not something to read into

which i think is correct

I have played with leetic before and have not patterned to memory an experience of them being like this.

I disagree with your premise and I would rather leetic speak for themselves pocketing wolf.

can you link the game

No. There are quite a few, and you are just reaching for some flotsam to cling for because I'm drowning you with no effort lol.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:31 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:27 pm @leetic I have mixed feelings about you. Your aggression and WIM seem there but you aren't being very charitable to anyone and the way you entered the game and immediately started engaging people was quite antagonistic and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a rational place. Why are you so aggressive in this game?

Because you don't catch wolves by sitting on your ass

Well the question isn't why are you sitting on your ass, my question is why you are being so aggressive, or to put it in other words, hostile and uncharitable? You are obviously not sitting on your ass but from my perspective a handful of players have been driving the game forward, solving it, asking good questions and being helpful and you came into the game and took aim directly at exactly them.

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:30 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:27 pm @leetic I have mixed feelings about you. Your aggression and WIM seem there but you aren't being very charitable to anyone and the way you entered the game and immediately started engaging people was quite antagonistic and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a rational place. Why are you so aggressive in this game?

they struck me as me, similar to me but taken to an extreme level, and i think that mental model works

also makes “why are you so aggressive?” simply personality and not something to read into

which i think is correct

I have played with leetic before and have not patterned to memory an experience of them being like this.

I disagree with your premise and I would rather leetic speak for themselves pocketing wolf.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:26 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:52 am leetic +: very active. aggrobots are >rand town. spouting a lot of mech nonsense.
leetic -: absolutely dive bombed thread health and town morale/cohesion. aggrobots can also be wolf. people spouting mech nonsense can very easily be wolf. their conclusions/readlist when asked were surprisingly weak for how forward they've played, tons of hedging, no real substantial reads at all besides joining me on the dizzy vote, their actual push targets have all sucked, projecting a defensive aura of "don't interact with me" in a way I often see from aggro mafia.

I do find it funny you're calling me out for supposedly hedging when nearly every "read" in that wallpost is a hedge. Plus, thanks for giving me another reason to call "thread health" a stupid concept

Thread health isn't a stupid concept but context is key.

The game is easier for mafia to navigate when townies are uncharitable to one another. But if the game is in a "healthy" threadstate and mafia are well ahead then uglifying it is sometimes a good idea.

At gamestart not really at all.

I'm not saying it's scummy for you but I don't quite follow why you entered the game this way and have seemingly maintained it though. I don't think that the reality of the solving quality of posts lines up with your appraisal of them.

Holy crosspost

@leetic I have mixed feelings about you. Your aggression and WIM seem there but you aren't being very charitable to anyone and the way you entered the game and immediately started engaging people was quite antagonistic and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a rational place. Why are you so aggressive in this game?