The Syndicate

Ricochet wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Ricochet wrote: snip

Yeah I'm just gonna go ahead and not read that because I'm town and I expect that it's all just a bunch of bullshit really.

You could have said the same thing without snipping my entire post (lmfao ). Snipping content is a scum tell around here, just fyi.

I agree, we don't have to go all day over this. So anytime you want to concede, buddy, I'll take it.

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Ricochet wrote: snip

Matt F wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:How did missing your night kill make you feel?

Mac, how sure of this are you?

Floyd, Fuzz, or Matt, did epi miss a night kill?

I am very sure.

So Epi's the SK, and you're on the Mafia? Or is it the other way around?

DrWilgy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:How did missing your night kill make you feel?

Mac, how sure of this are you?

Floyd, Fuzz, or Matt, did epi miss a night kill?

Matt F wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I don't see anything wrong with Black Rock actually. It would be easy for me to just agree here but nothing she is saying is pinging me at all.

Why say that in the underline? Are you letting the thread know how civvie you are because you could've easily agreed on a (in your opinion) bogus case against Black Rock, but instead, chose to go the noble route and actually give your true opinion?

Russtifinko wrote:Yeah, it looks like my read on BR converges somewhat with JJJ's. Thanks for pointing out her role in Devin's death; I hadn't thought much about it though it's obvious in hindsight.

I do think making reads and then backing off by saying she made them to get people in thread is suspicious at best, utter BS at worst.

Russtifinko wrote:

fingersplints wrote: I was going to vote BR now that espers is dead, but fingersplints has convinced me not to. I still might, if I find at day's end that my own reasons are good enough to. Until fingers does the 2 things I pointed out above, I will be ignoring anything she says. It seems to bother her, so maybe it'll induce her to play for real.

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:@ Matt and Epi: Whatdo you see about rico? I feel like he's been a helpful civ.

For me, it's tone. He sounds like he's trying to be helpful and it's rubbing me as false. That's completely subjective, but that's what it is. My suspicion of him came from him making a big ass post of nothing:

Epignosis wrote:

Ricochet wrote:RIP K4J and HamburgerBoy.

It's not...yesterday...anymore.

Lots to catch up on, it seems, but I have to study and have some appointments during the next hours.

From the BWT voters, I have some issues with a few, namely Wilgy, b24, sig.

For I may have said myself before about B24's vote, notably him adding a lot of suspicion parameters, besides the "easy vote" part, that aren't clear to me, at least.

And I may have told myself: Wilgy's vote was first, so I doubt it could have influenced the outcome much, but it gives me strange vibe of being a vote planted in the nest and left there. He criticised BWT's as well as my claims of different gameplay once the game started rolling, but he felt satisfied with my explanations, yet kept the suss on BWT. Furthermore, he said he awaited more info or thoughts from BWT himself (which BWT offered, afterwards), but then didn't return for the last 12 hours of the phase.

And I may have found myself thinking sig's vote for BWT was self-defense - or at least thinking this way because of someone labeling it as such (Golden?) - but it turns out it was a vote based on other's arguments and on BWT being his most suspicious player. Yet I see no traces of BWT growing as a suspect to him. Plus, from his posts, I rather get the feel LC would have qualified as more suspicious overall (on whom he held off voting, preferring BWT instead).

I also may have noted to myself that, although I don't disagree with the fact that BWT made some uninspired D0/Dusk0 moves (hence I don't disagree with this vote for BWT per se), I found Matt to be, except for something about an exchange between Zebra and Roxy, fixated on D0/DU0 issues, rather than the present time. Not sure what to make of this.

---

As for right now, I find you may ask yourself: what's up with MM voting first (again) and why seaside?

And you may ask yourself: what's up with Floyd voting Ace and saying nothing? Is it true that it's his first game ever? Is he familiarized with the procedures, at least? I can understand the anxiety of participating in such a large game, but I still don't know what to make of his ghost vote moves, since he isn't saying anything about them.

And yes, I may find myself that everyone "town reading" him for as little as this should explain why. Let's not turn this into a running joke for this game, without getting some explanations as well.

This is one big ass post full of nothing. You have acknowledged every side of every coin without expressing an opinion yourself.

I'm inclined to believe that your goal is to maintain focus on broad array of people without taking a stand against any particular one of them.

Ricochet wrote:Here's something I worked on.

This is an update of the LC-players relations. I forgot to take out espers before uploading the picture. Any further mention of espers in the text is also void, but I'm too tired right now to proofread and edit anymore.

http://s15.postimg.org/v31yglvgr/Untitled.png

A few preliminary steps in developing my research:

TOPIC A

The vote tallies right now are an insane and unhelpful chaos for any proper, traditional hunt:

-- on D1, LC, since then confirmed mafia, received only one vote (incidentally, a player, Zebra, that the mafia also disposed two Nights later); that means he had six teammates who went places. Main wagon and mislynch was BWT and that wagon is currently still ripe with alive players (b24, Diiny, Wilgy, Matt, sig; meanwhile only HB and Sorsha are dead), so some of them might still be there, but others could easily have also scattered further.

-- on D2, we have our LC lynchers (out of which so far not a single player has received mafia retribution). Here's the more disturbing aspect: the second wagon (b24) voters have all but one (Epi) been removed from the game, with not a single LC teammate located so far there; the rest of the votes are also worryingly scattered

-- it gets worse during our three-Day mislynch fest:
D3 Golden was lynched and he almost certainly civ. Second wagons was a now-confirmed civ (Sorsha) and me, and I happen to also be civ. Also a smaller wagon on Russ, plus a few remaining scattered votes.
D4 Sorsha was lynched, flipped civ. Second wagon flipped civ D5. Five remaining votes were scattered. Five!
D5 the player with the most visible votes didn't get lynched and the second wagon, manipulation notwithstanding, got actually lynched and flipped civ

CONCLUSION A

Considering that for the past three Days we've had not only mislynches with our top wagons, but also second wagons that later also flipped civs, I believe now is the best time to consider a reevaluation on how and what to hunt for during subsequent phases. Given this D3-D5 bad trend and lack of results, I feel we'll be on a road to nowhere in no time, if the next lynches will keep failing this way. Keep in mind that the mafia can well control such a tendency, if they didn't already do so during the previous Days.

TOPIC B

I find it also telling that the "LC defenders must be baddies" path hasn't led to great results, in pretty much the same way: mislynch after mislynch since LC got caught, the next mislynch always having been an alternative wagon the previous Day. Feels like lynching in circles.

From the stats I pulled, the players left alive who have defended or felt positive about LC are:

-- Roxy
-- Epignosis
-- moi

Gone are:

-- FZ, killed by the Psycho Killer, but I'm personally feeling she was civ
-- Golden, partly suspected for defending and trying to save LC from lynch, before gathering votes and putting into motion his role plan (including asking to be lynched), which contributed even more to his death
-- Sorsha, partly suspected for crass defending of LC, until more suss piled up on her and got her lynched D5
-- Devin, who has a moment of picking up LC's suspicion, then suddenly dropping it and never saying much more about LC until after his death

CONCLUSION B

So with two more players (again, I'm not bad) left to survey using this angle and, worst case (at best, the SK was inspired to take out two mafia during N1 and N3; at worst, no mafia was touched so far), six mafias remaining, it's clear to me we need to start looking a different angles as well, including even the most extreme ones: the potential bussers.

TOPIC C

Here's what we know about LC:

-- he's a competent, dangerous, smart, possibly strategic, "con"ning player when in mafia skin
-- he created a confirmed fake bullsuit case on bea
-- he flipped onto a sig case, calling it his "real" case; it atracted moderate attention, including catching in a web the later confirmed-civ BWT, whose sig vote garnered bad vibes and contributed to his lynch; whether the sig case is also fake bullsuit (in the sense that he tried to frame a second civilian, after bea) or a moderate sussing on a teammate attempt, enough however not to catch fire completely, still remains to be seen; as for the BWT mislynch, it's notable that he distanced from this; if it's mostly a mafia work of art, his signature is not on it, because he didn't endorse it
-- he added in desperate self-preservation a vote on b24 at the end of D2, a player which he didn't address at all during the game. Once again, if the b24 wagon is a mafia work, his signature is not on it, because he didn't endorse it, nor did he interact with any of the b24 sussers
-- someone also mentioned that LC could have well orchestrated everything he did, in order to get himself out of the game (due to conflicts with starting to run AWR soon)

Given all these fabrications, conning, distancing from main lynches or wagons and such, what does your gut tell:
a) did LC's flip leave a lot of his teammates exposed (which, so far, we have made no real progress on with the following lynches); or
b) either LC in a careful strategy or his teammates on their own, through careful steps, took measures that they don't look exposed following LC's flip

Combine A + B + C and, for me at least, you get all the signs that the moment is just right to reevaluate things at a profound level and even consider the extremes of the interactions with LC: either his purest defenders, either the players who were most responsive to question, challenge and ultimately vote him.
Without further ado, and aware of the risks of simply being called mad for going this path, this is exactly what I'll do.

Hear my voice, hear my voice, it's saying something and I hope you're concentrated.

================================

Let's go back to D1. One single vote for LC (from a civ, Zebra; I say civ because I doubt the mafia had any incentive to go cannibal on a teammate on N3 and he was obviously not the SK) and yet I have four players who strongly questioned his gameplay during that very Day:

Re: sig, I'd only be repeating myself. He made a consistent effort in suspecting LC (partly in reaction to what LC himself was placing on him), but then voted BWT for arguments others made and by calling him his most "suspicious player" (with a self-defense motivation added there as well)
Sig returned to his LC speech and gave his vote on him during D2; since then he's put his votes on two mislynches and missed a vote.
Trajectory post LC lynch:
> slight suss on JJJ and Choutas
> strong suspicion on Sorsha (for arguments others made)
> no read on case on Epig
> not sure of Sorsha anymore, suspects Golden and seaside for links to LC
> more and more against Sorsha lynch
> votes Golden
> votes me (for arguments others made)
> finds me genuine in defending, jumps back on Golden (partly agreeing with Wilgy's analysis)
> D4 stays clear of Sorsha wagon, brings back Choutas suss
> considers voting Devin (no previous mention of him!)
> misses vote
> votes Choutas (recurring suss)
> willing to vote MacDougall (when did he ever suspect him before?)
> leans on an Epi vote (for SK arguments MacDougall brought)
> disapproves of espers wagon and votes Devin (for "suspicious expressed in the past"... uh, which ones?)

Complete scrambled of a game, if you ask me.

I had Mac written down as having went hard on LC right from the start and his suss post indeed contains strong language like LC being "tactical, mindful, nervous first major action", but upon revisit it's actually a suspicion in a post in which he goes for Diiny being "the worst" and votes for him, too.
Trajectory afterwards is surprisingly lighthearted:
> picks on rey for making a "hello" contribution
> picks on seaside's absurd townread of Floyd
> not very phased by llama's suss on him being hostile - maybe something to keep in mind about Llama, if Mac flip mafia
> criticises FZ's disapproval of the Sig and Diiny wagons (not using her own justifications)
> brings up theory on Flowers and brings up the idea that lurkers should be lynched; switches vote to rey
DAY ENDS
> N1, engages in rebuttals with LC over his Flower theories
> votes FZ for her case against Epig
> calls for seaside to be dealt with, either as potential mafia or as liability to the civ game, whilst undecided himself
> insists on seaside tactic in reply to Sorsha, whilst also fending off her idea that LC made good points about him (presumably in the Flowers' conversation) and that he didn't challenge LC's thoughts
> more defending against his seaside tactic looking bad
> votes llama, gut read he needs to elaborate, no read on B24, plus suddenly a sign of approval for the LC lynch
> "I have been very wary of LC from the word go", disapproves of Syndicateers' angle that LC wouldn't make such obvious conning
> feeling very good about keeping vote on Llama after Llama's Diiny reasoning
DAYS ENDS "oh look at that the guy who seemed scum was scum and I told you the meta angle was bullsuit"

So for a player bragging at the end of LC's lynch that he always picked up on LC's shtick being scummy and that he had the precise right angle on him, whilst others were contemplating wifom and meta, his entire trajectory is pretty waffles and also never ever putting his stamp on LC. Given this, the timing of his "I've been wary of LC from the word go" - early on, LC wagon starting to brew, but still a comfy moment, with the votes heavily spreaded - is starting to sound a bit cooked.

Further trajectory and votes during the next Days aren't too supertown either. Mislynches Golden and Sorsha. The main angles he approached don't sound good to my ears, if you've paid attention to my Topic B. Here's a sort of summary of his next moves:
> LC defenders must be scum because Occam Razor. Singles out Roxy alongside FZ, Epi, Sorsha.
> Stays pretty much away from JJJ/Golden spat, but turns on Golden once he insists on lynching Sorsha despite having a town read on her
> Suddenly disapproves of Matt's own reasons to lynch Sorsha.
> Split between Sorsha and Golden; would rather see Sorhsa lynched to get a sense of Matt
> Doesn't hop aboard my lynch wagon, but afterwards starts entertaining the idea slightly; goes from pointing out to JJJ about my TH lyrics to suspecting me of using them as the SK. W.T.F.
DAY ENDS. His vote never left Golden, early on.
> "We should lynch Sorsha because she didn't get lynched today (and we can't lynch Rico)". Votes Sorsha. Nuff said.
> Adds arguments that lynching Sorsha would break the game open any way she flips. "Let's take the odds to a civ lynch for future knowledge", guys.
> Again gets discontent with Matt voting Sorsha, a player that he previous asked the thread to lynch, no matter what.
> Flips to Matt, including the Matt Lynch Party invitation.
> Comfy again with Sorsha lynch after seeing Devin lynch catching up.
DAY ENDS. "Oh noes"

I can't believe my senses were so numb. Everything is clear now. MacDougall is le baddie.

motel room. Also quick to tell that LC's case on bea comes off as too strong, but this is in reply to llama's questionnaire on whether bea reacted in a genuine way to LC's vote and case on her.
Starts picking on several things sig said afterwards. Quite insistent on it.
Invites, however, at one point sig to join him on a LC wagon. Ironically, neither ever do.
Calls out LC's flip on sig as "pressured and gross, backpedalling".
DAY ENDS. His vote remains on sig from early banter with him. Not only did he reacted strongly to LC's case and counter-case, along the way, but also invited to a LC wagon, yet nothing from this made him put the stamp on LC.
Incresingly suspicious of every move by LC. Votes him.
Switches to Choutas (for his unexplained vote on LC?). Also considers JJJ lynch.
Goes back to LC, picking him over b24.
DAY ENDS.

Well if LC clearly instructed his teammates to take a stance against him, to the point of bussing when things get totally serious, it's simply unnerving. Don't know what to make of MR. His LC sussing looks so on point, but his D1 flipping is, to put it in his words, "gross" and the vote switches during D2 feel a bit as if he was testing the waters for alternatives or for distancing, but then returned to LC, almost as if shit got serious and he was aware he previously sussed LC enough not to do a stupid move and get out of orbit.

Onwards
> First thought of D3 is that people who defended LC's meta are most suspicious: Sorsha and Epi. Goes with Epi.
> Still wants to hear from Choutas' LC vote.
> Sig is suddenly good.
> JJJ lynch being considered no more.
> Also brings an LC-bea link theory.
DAY ENDS. His vote stayed on Epi all along.
> D4 votes Sorsha for placeholder, oh oh!
> Talks other topics, including Mac potentially bandwagoning on Sorsha.
DAY ENDS. His vote remained on Sorsha.

It's 5am and I don't want to die from exhaustion, so I'll stop here and resume later. I've left enough for now, anyway. I should in theory do JJJ as well and might just do him in full, but you have my crazy gut read on him. I'll grant him this though, compared to what I've revisited above on the other "LC critics", he has been rather more inquisitive and going through all the questioning/analysing stages by comparison. Overall, it'd be a sheer craftsman work, unlike anything I've seen, if he truly bussed LC. Gonna mull on this further.

Others, on the other sides of the spectrum, to follow as well.

Ricochet wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Please recast all votes in the poll. Sorry for the inconvenience. Devin should no longer be on the poll.

As to your question, Rico, I'm on phone so I am not quoting: Since Life During Wartime executed the kill, the mafia cannot try to kill during Night 6.

Excellent.

I'd almost say lynch Mac on D7 then, to deprive mafia of their N7 kill, but I still don't trust the SK at all and we still can't afford to continue mislynching.

linki: Strawhenge, don't lose faith. Absolute trust should keep you going in the right direction.

Epignosis wrote:MacDougall: Talk about Russtifinko.

Go.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Could not possibly be.

Wrong answer.

MACDOUGALL

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Linki: probably the weight of other people's opinions and a wavering in your confidence.

What if it's something else?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Don't you have a townread on MacDougall, Jay? Why is he not on that list?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

MacDougall wrote:epignosis

Answer to Rico's assessment or die.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:A number of RYMers have fallen off quite a bit after decently fast starts:

Diiny
seaside
motel room
Strawhenge

even Choutas and bcornett24 to a lesser degree.

Please find it in yourselves to pick it up guys. I know it's a huge thread, but that doesn't prevent you from playing. Even if you can't catch up, just go from here without worrying about that. It's better than the alternative that RDW and espers chose.

I'm just going to put this right here.

MacDougall wrote:epignosis

Russtifinko wrote:Oh! And sorry for the multipost. I forgot this:

Side note: I usually have a couple of biggish blocks of time to mafia per day, if I'm lucky, but limited ability to hop on and off. I read through and reply to everything interesting I see in my catch up. So if my thoughts appear disjointed, that's why. Hope it's not making m thought trains too hard to follow.

Matt F wrote:I think Floyd needs to be looked at pronto. This deal with him "being gone" for several days after being suspected and saying some very odd things...I don't like it.

If he's gone for 3-4 days, won't he just be modkilled for inactivity anyway?

seaside wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

seaside wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

seaside wrote:lol i just realised it is already night....
i made those last posts without realising that devin had already been lynched.

can drugs be used on only one person? or can scum use it on more than one person?

Drugs can use his power once every even night. I think that's a reasonable assumption.

are we assuming drugs also voted for the person the next day?

If you were Drugs, would you vote for the player you tossed two extra votes on?

i have been absent throughout yesterday, so i don't know how the votes went onto both espers and devin in real time
but say for example if jjj was drugs, he voted early, gave drugs to devin the night before. then realised that it was going to be close, he could either change his vote to ensure that devin gets lynched, making it look suss with the late vote change
or he could of just left it on, knowing that espers getting lynched on a cointoss would also work for scum. or he could of communicated with his scum mates to jump onto devin to make the numbers?

As to the bolded, seaside, you're acting like you KNOW espers is civ here. Why?

I think him posting yesterday, presumably to avoid a modkill, makes him looks way worse, personally. I'll probably vote him again if he isn't modkilled.

Russtifinko wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I believe I have uncovered the truth.

You are all just antisocial to new players to your forum.

Choutas wrote:I find it hilarious that the syndicators are doing their best to lynch other syndicators(at least until day 4) and rymers are doing their best to lynch syndicators too. It's only after the Macdougall controversy that suspicions started piling onto some rymers. Perhaps we're looking at the wrong forum. Isn't Metalmarsh rymer emeritus no?
You're scum bro?
Why the movember smilie is thellama73 smilie?

These points, taken together, are interesting to me. I know a lot of players (myself included) use meta to trying degrees to make their reads of others. Playing with half the players as new definitely hampers that strategy. I for one have hesitated a bit on reading RYMers, and I've been relying somewhat on RYMers' meta reads on each other (like JJJ on Mac, for example) to supplement the thread evidence I'm seeing. It's possible, with RYMers and Syndicateers both going after Syndicateers, that RYMers are getting a bit too much of a pass/civvie cred.

Elohcin wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I feel quite safe this evening.

B/c you can't self target, right?!

MacDougall wrote:I call upon Choutas to read Epignosis as a possible serial killer and tell me what he thinks. Over to you Choutas.

Distancing, I see. Clever. But you're not fooling me.

MacDougall wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

MacDougall wrote:If you guys want to lynch me tomorrow I won't fight you as long as you promise me one thing.

After I flip town, MattF is not allowed to play mafia on this forum for 3 months.

linki: Oh no you said Occam's Razor. Here comes Epi.

I am not done catching up from the posts that took place while I was sleeping but I had to stop and comment on this. What kind of person says something like this. C'mon Mac, you were so fun when the game started and now you are being an asshat.

What's wrong with it exactly?

"After I flip town, MattF is not allowed to play mafia on this forum for 3 months."

Rude.

MacDougall wrote:I am going to bed.

Elohcin I fully expect to see a post calling Epignosis an asshat upon my return.

Goodnight all.

I don't think Epi has been an asshat this game. He's actually been kinder than normal. Can anyone else vouch for that?

Epignosis wrote: 2. The two couples on RYM are probably cheating on each other. They should seek counseling.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:If Jay didn't have a meta-read on you, he wouldn't have said this and this.

Using meta to dismiss scum reads on me is one thing, but to reduce his town read of me down to that is non genuine.

When I was suspecting you as mafia, Jay went out and pulled a blurb about you from RYM to describe your meta-game. I take it with a grain of salt, but I accept the thought none-the-less. I am not solely intent on lynching you. My point was that when I suspected you, Jay didn't say anything about this game, but just pulled up a statement about your play in general. It's helpful, but not the kinda thing that can dismiss you as town.

But thanks for pulling up that other post. That is more helpful.

Linki: I don't think MacDougall said anything wrong there.

Elohcin wrote:

MacDougall wrote:If you guys want to lynch me tomorrow I won't fight you as long as you promise me one thing.

After I flip town, MattF is not allowed to play mafia on this forum for 3 months.

linki: Oh no you said Occam's Razor. Here comes Epi.

I am not done catching up from the posts that took place while I was sleeping but I had to stop and comment on this. What kind of person says something like this. C'mon Mac, you were so fun when the game started and now you are being an asshat.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:It's been fun doing it to a whole bunch of new people sure. More fun that I envisioned it would be.

I play hostile and provocative for a reason and you know why I do it. Same as it ever was.

I don't have any issue with anybody having a scum read on me. That comes with the territory. I have issues with players who go along with half cocked cases without criticizing them first. I don't even fault Matt his case, after it all came out in the wash I can see where he got the idea from, despite there being a glaring hole or two.

I'm trying to convince the folks here that I'm not awful at Mafia and that sometimes it can be beneficial to trust me a little bit. Is my town read on you going to be the reason they never trust me again ever when this game is over?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:If Jay didn't have a meta-read on you, he wouldn't have said this and this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Relationship between MacDougall and Long Con:

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

Long Con wrote:Bea has opinions about who is Civvie, but none about who is bad. A Mafia member knows every Civvie out there, so can proclaim their trust with confidence. I think bea is Mafia, and I'm going to put my vote on her for now.

*votes bea*

This post set off scumdar pretty bad. It reads tactical, mindful ... I don't like it. No other posts in Long Con's ISO trouble me. It just seems like a nervous first major action.

MacAttack right off the bat. Good look, not just because it's anti-LC but because this is the kind of thing that helped to force LC to pretend it was ruse.

Here we have MacDougall and LC literally discussing the Nothing but Flowers role in the thread.

Mac brought the role up, and LC couldn't resist the urge to comment. Do I think two mafia team mates were chatting the day away about one of their own roles publicly in the thread? I absolutely don't. Towniest look of any analysis I've done so far, congratulations Mac.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

Sorsha wrote:Two players I'm considering voting for so far:
Mac:
I don't like Mac going for seaside for the simple fact that he doesn't want him in the game. Seaside came in day one voicing suspicion of Mac so this just seems like a delayed no u/omgus. Long Con made a couple good points earlier about some things Mac said yesterday late in the lynch also. (If I wasn't on my phone I'd go back and get the quote) Mac was also on HBs rainbow list in yellow so I could see Mac trying to take him out before HB had more of a chance to look closer at him.
Straw:
Based on his posts from the night I believe he might also be trying to set seaside up for the HB kill.

Going to put my vote on Mac for the time being.

I don't want him in the game because he's either scum or because he's disruptive to the scum hunt. He's the best lynch candidate for the day. Explain to me how that's not valid?

His suspicion of me was nothing tbh. I barely even considered it at the time let alone now.

I don't think Long Con's points were good. Pretty sure you'll agree when you ACTUALLY READ THEM.

Also I have no idea what the fuck you mean by the last bit? Setting him up for the kill? He's going to get lynched, why would anyone bother doing that?

Lynching seaside is a no brainer at this point. Most votes, most people interracted with so it leaves the best crumbs. Most people seem to harbour some doubt about him.

What's your read of seaside?

Mac may have taken a long break, but he returned to Mafia in old form.

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote:I'm used to an unchangeable vote mentality for the most part. I'll put a vote on Macdougal for the reasons I gave earlier.

LC responded to Mac's aggression with an OMGUS vote. It's possible that this was all a designed cooperative bus, but... I don't think it was.

~~~

Mac looks like a townie and y'all should do what he says.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:What? I didn't say I picked it up from "hidden meanings" or such. I said your statement(s) were noticeable.

I know you didn't say it. But "I noticed that too" is suggestive you "picked up on" something as opposed to merely observing it in broad daylight. One does not "notice" the sun.

Ricochet wrote:However, the point I said I noticed was not simply you townreading Mac hard, but this "townreading" becoming very reciprocal right now between the two of you.

Yes, we're town reading one another. Loudly. We've both also supplied a ton of reasons for that, so if it's an issue then players should contest those stated reasons. Mac and I have played a ton of Mafia together and I think we boast a certain degree of synergy. Sure, I could be wrong about him here (I could be wrong about any read I ever state), but without a good reason to think so I'm not going to move from my perspective. Sell me on it by telling me why my reasons for town reading Mac are dubious or weak.

If I recall, the reasoning you offered me is that Macdougall is an extremely experienced and knowledgeable player, and he is excellent at keeping himself alive, and hunting for scum whether he is one of them or not. His meta does not change from game-to-game, you said.

So this townread of him that I heard from you is meta-based, and doesn't directly acknowledge his behavior this game. Just saying.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Mac: what has been your level of desire to portray your style in this foreign environment?

Ricochet wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Bantz defense is scummy now. Noted.

When rather right off the bat, yes, a bit.

Matt came with the SK theory, second reaction you make to it is telling "us idiots" to be able to make a right call if the theory is valid or not.

Now that Epi pointed at you and JJJ curiously handing each other stronk town reads, and I approve of that, your reaction was to "compliment" our reading skills.

It's banter and it's dismissive and it slightly makes me wonder why the need for it, instead of a casual response.

seaside wrote:I don't think he was drugged.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:If you guys want to lynch me tomorrow I won't fight you as long as you promise me one thing.

After I flip town, MattF is not allowed to play mafia on this forum for 3 months.

linki: Oh no you said Occam's Razor. Here comes Epi.

Now you're intimidated.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Here's something to chew on. This relies on Occam's Razor quite a bit.

I looked back through the role list. Drugs appears to be the most likely impact on the lynch of Devin because it directly applies 2 votes to Devin's total if he was targeted. Also recall that Drugs will add 2 votes to each subsequent lynch of the targeted player, not just the following day. On Day 5, Devin was lynched even though he appeared to be behind in the lynch 8-6 to espers.

But on Day 4, Devin lost in the lynch to Sorsha 10-9. Again, if Devin was targeted by Drugs before Day 4, then he probably should have been lynched on this day, but Sorsha was lynched instead. This would suggest the Devin was targeted by Drugs on Night 4. But why would Devin be targeted by Drugs on the night after he gained 9 votes and almost won the lynch? What do y'all think? Why toss the two extra votes his way? Why use an every-other-night power on a player with a lot of suspicion around them instead of on another player who you expect to last longer in the game and also be an effective force?