The Syndicate

I will be pushing for Epignosis's lynch unless something occurs to make it impossible at which point DFaraday would be a possible vote.

a2thezebra
MovingPictures07
Sorsha
Diiny
DrWilgy
FZ.
JaggedJimmyJay
DFaraday
motel room
TheFloyd73
Epignosis

This is where I am at right this second.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Matt F Dougall.

I am not playing like Matt F at all. I have multiple cases running simultaneously, am being measured and not tunneling anyone. Jimmy's post is a swipe at my credibility and it's unfounded.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Epignosis and Jimmy are very good players and Floyd is very inexperienced. What better way to get the heat off Floyd than by attacking him with unfounded suspicion. Nobody is going to just railroad the poor kid on day 1 or day 2 because Epi comes at him caseless and baseless. And if you don't make a play like that to help Floyd he naturally attracts suspicion like nobody's business. Epignosis has effectively completely achieved the opposite of his stated initial objective, he has made Floyd a town read for most. Do you think that is by accident?

Jimmy took the opposite approach. He's distancing by killing with kindness and at the same time distancing from Epignosis by going hard at him for the weak Floyd read. If Floyd manages to get killed then Jimmy can play the "well if I was a teammate I would never have defended him that much card" and if Epi gets killed Jimmy looks million buck for being his main adversary.

Epignosis and Jimmy's shit slinging match has been exhaustive, and as Zebra pointed out much of what they have pointed out about one another has been inconsistent play, not necessarily alignment indicative stuff. Jimmy has dialed back his read to Epi as wrong, not manipulative at one point and yet still has his vote on him.

They have played exactly as I would expect them to if they were a scum team.

This is plausible.

I don't find myself thinking it's unreasonable...

That said, I think this is incredibly thorough and specific. I've come up with theories like this in past games and I was never exactly right, usually I wasn't even remotely right. I wouldn't seriously consider it unless we had already lynched at least one of them and gotten a mafia flip, probably two.

Taking each part separately, I think I'm more so considering the Epi -- JJJ connection and the JJJ -- Floyd connection than the Epi -- Floyd connection. Epi seems too be too harsh on Floyd for them to be teammates; I think if they had BTSC that interaction seems less believable.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the scum team didn't get to communicate with each other until after Epignosis had already made that move on Floyd. So the idea that their BTSC makes it implausible is irrelevant because hypothetically they hadn't communicated yet.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Building entire mafia teams before any of them has died is almost always pointless. Matt F Dougall

You would say that.

You're the second person to call me Matt F today. I think it's pretty conniving tbh.

Jimmy let's lynch Epignosis then and reassess.

MP you said you would analyse my posts. Can you do that rather than call for more content now please.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I guess that's my last ISO, not enough time for another. Time to decide where Mr. Vote goes.

This will interest me greatly.

Epi my vote was already cast. As scum if my vote was already on a civilian the safe play is to just let things play out. For me to change it to another player at the last minute means there must have been a reason. Do you think it was because I felt that he was behaving scum or do you think I did it for nefarious reasons? If the latter what reasons would they be?

I would like to see some lynch pressure applied to Epignosis so if anyone has a scum read of him and their vote is yet to be cast I would appreciate if you could move your vote there now.

Linki: So is that a refusal to answer the actual questions then Epi?

Epignosis wrote:

MacDougall wrote:But for an English teacher you have a pretty sketchy definition of the word argument if you think your reaction post to my statement isn't one.

Thanks for telling me. I can sleep better tonight knowing I've been corrected by the rhetorical expertise of Mr. Tinfoil Strawman, ESQ.

Pfft okay mate.

Epi tell me do you think what I did in regards to the enrique lynch is the action of a scum? Contributing to a late game swing against a civ is a mightily risky move for a scum to make and it infers there is something to be gained from it. What would I have had to gain from it considering there is no way for me to have known he was the cop.

I didn't say I wouldn't, and there is still time for me to change my opinion, but if it came down to a choice between the three you were already my scum read and for all the reasons you could be their partners you could also just be a bad guy fudging facts. And now you are trying to discredit me by bringing up my day 1 action as though it's an indictment when everyone but you has agreed that it isn't. Rehashing another reason I think that you are shady.

But for an English teacher you have a pretty sketchy definition of the word argument if you think your reaction post to my statement isn't one.

Fair enough man. Like I said it's tinfoily. There's room for it to just be outright distancing of him without realising the implication anyway.

I am going to vote for Epi. Wilgy you can self preservation vote him if you want.

Epignosis wrote:

MacDougall wrote:You literally did that though. The question is whether you did it as town by accident despite being genuine about him or as scum for some ulterior reason.

I literally did not do that. I am not to blame for people saying Floyd is good. They are.

Epi your actions are the reason most are town reading Floyd whether or not it's obvious. Floyd has not been town in isolation and yet many are reading him town. He's not attracting votes because people are piqued by your reckless attacking of him early on day 1 for no apparent reason. If I did that to Floyd before you would you vote for Floyd? Would you think I was up to no good? Honest questions.

Epignosis wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Epignosis and Jimmy are very good players and Floyd is very inexperienced. What better way to get the heat off Floyd than by attacking him with unfounded suspicion. Nobody is going to just railroad the poor kid on day 1 or day 2 because Epi comes at him caseless and baseless. And if you don't make a play like that to help Floyd he naturally attracts suspicion like nobody's business. Epignosis has effectively completely achieved the opposite of his stated initial objective, he has made Floyd a town read for most. Do you think that is by accident?

Jimmy took the opposite approach. He's distancing by killing with kindness and at the same time distancing from Epignosis by going hard at him for the weak Floyd read. If Floyd manages to get killed then Jimmy can play the "well if I was a teammate I would never have defended him that much card" and if Epi gets killed Jimmy looks million buck for being his main adversary.

Epignosis and Jimmy's shit slinging match has been exhaustive, and as Zebra pointed out much of what they have pointed out about one another has been inconsistent play, not necessarily alignment indicative stuff. Jimmy has dialed back his read to Epi as wrong, not manipulative at one point and yet still has his vote on him.

They have played exactly as I would expect them to if they were a scum team.

What a crock of shit. You don't know what you would expect of me if I was on a Mafia team with them. You aren't qualified to say that, because you've never even seen me play as Mafia.

If I were on a team with a new or inexperienced person, I would not throw that person under the bus for credibility. That's unsportsmanlike. My goal, especially in a skirmish with no banner or GoC qualification, would be to help the player refine his skills and enjoy the BTSC company. I wouldn't give a damn about winning a game like this at the expense of helping someone gain experience and nurture a potential future relationship. Inexperienced players would be less likely to want to continue playing if their experienced team uses them as fodder and doesn't let them experience the game.

And, just to drive home the point that you know stuff-all about me as Mafia: In all the games I have ever been in from the beginning, having been Mafia many many times, how many times did I throw a teammate under the bus before, say, Day 4?

I'll see if you know the answer to that.

Well that's a reaction. A crock of shit? I think it's a pretty rational tinfoily argument tbh. Epignosis when I say it is what I expect, it is because it is what I would imagine two faceless experienced Mafia players would do. Not a personal read.

Second point is bizarre because you are saying that you would be friendly and hospitable to your scum buddy not throwing them under the bus for cred. Well I actually said you threw him under the bus to give him cred so that would fall into that category. Also why would you exclusively be kind to a new player if they were your teammates? If you were bad you'd be a dick to the new guy if he wasn't your teammate?

Of course I have no idea. My argument is tinfoil and also it's more about what I'd expect from an expert scum player than you personally. I don't know you from a bar of soap.

So your entire argument is strawman.

Yeah whatever dude.

Epi do you really think I'm old.

I actually think DFaraday's posts make him look like a scum lurker more than a civ lurker. Civ lurkers pop in and toss votes around when they know they can't be sure to be around. He hasn't. He's popped in and said a dude was bad and a dude was good but he didn't vote.

You literally did that though. The question is whether you did it as town by accident despite being genuine about him or as scum for some ulterior reason.

Epignosis and Jimmy are very good players and Floyd is very inexperienced. What better way to get the heat off Floyd than by attacking him with unfounded suspicion. Nobody is going to just railroad the poor kid on day 1 or day 2 because Epi comes at him caseless and baseless. And if you don't make a play like that to help Floyd he naturally attracts suspicion like nobody's business. Epignosis has effectively completely achieved the opposite of his stated initial objective, he has made Floyd a town read for most. Do you think that is by accident?

Jimmy took the opposite approach. He's distancing by killing with kindness and at the same time distancing from Epignosis by going hard at him for the weak Floyd read. If Floyd manages to get killed then Jimmy can play the "well if I was a teammate I would never have defended him that much card" and if Epi gets killed Jimmy looks million buck for being his main adversary.

Epignosis and Jimmy's shit slinging match has been exhaustive, and as Zebra pointed out much of what they have pointed out about one another has been inconsistent play, not necessarily alignment indicative stuff. Jimmy has dialed back his read to Epi as wrong, not manipulative at one point and yet still has his vote on him.

They have played exactly as I would expect them to if they were a scum team.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Tinfoil hat on...

Jimmy, Epi and Floyd are the bad guys.

Elaborate.

What would you expect the in game play to look like with this team wearing the black hats?

I would expect it to look exactly like it is.

Tinfoil hat on...

Jimmy, Epi and Floyd are the bad guys.

Epignosis wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Spoiler: show

TheFloyd73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

You put it on yourself, man. I have no idea what you've got against me, but whatever it is, just share it.

Am I not permitted to call you Epi? Give me a reason not to.

My statement refers to he fact that pointed out that Mac gone against his word but you still want me gone.

I'm no longer concerned about the dramatic language at least when he's talking to/about Epignosis. The "Epi" thing is a reasonable inspiration for dramatic language.

I'm still chuckling that many are taking the "Epi" part of my post so seriously.

Dude you are doing that thing where you a rude to a person for no reason then say "heh only joking lighten up". Don't be that guy. That guy sucks.

I don't agree that I was being rude. I don't use sarcastic orange because if you have to explain the joke, it isn't funny. Moreover, I find value in how seriously some people took what I said. Getting reactions over something that (to me) was obvious nonsense, I think, provides something to look back upon, no?

You sound like an unrepentant bully. Even if it was an attempt at humour it was mean spirited. You don't have to add to it with arrogance. It was only obvious nonsense to you. I think it's a good look for those who called you out on it and tbh it's a bad look for you.

I can see where Jimmy is getting the idea that you and Floyd are teammies. You came straight out of the gate with what can be construed as strong distancing, and your inability to understand that it appeared hurtful is possibly coming from the fact that you know full well that he isn't upset by it because you've talked in BTSC. You've also managed to get Floyd top town read by a range of players by putting him in the position of the victim.

DFaraday wrote:Alright, I've more or less caught up. Wilgy is looking pretty bad to me, as I can't see a good civ reason for his behavior. Epi is coming across as civ, and I think his JJJ case is sounding plausible, but tomorrow I'll read over JJJ to get a better handle on it.

Still waiting for the follow up on this.

Metalmarsh where are you currently at with mod killing DFaraday for not voting/posting? Can you find a replacement? This game is too short for him to be not contributing. 3 posts in this game so far is not good enough. I checked and he has not been online since at all, so he's clearly just got life in the way. Can you find a replacement quickly? Anyone observing want in?

DrWilgy wrote:Mac, bro, plz save me. I'm asking for a bro favor, I wouldn't propose that unless it was to save a civ, me. I swear.

Linki - Will that actually happen?

Wilgy I don't think you are bad, but I'm not going to just vote a random to save you. I will vote for a person I think is bad. If you vote Faraday I will vote Faraday and he will be on 3 votes. But I also don't want you to self preservation vote yet. I want you to scum hunt and prove that my read is founded.

I say we lynch DFaraday.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Spoiler: show

TheFloyd73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:3J defends you to the degree of making me look bad.

You call me Epi (have we ever played together to any extent?).

Now a question for you: What is this:

2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

What does that mean?

You put it on yourself, man. I have no idea what you've got against me, but whatever it is, just share it.

Am I not permitted to call you Epi? Give me a reason not to.

My statement refers to he fact that pointed out that Mac gone against his word but you still want me gone.

I'm no longer concerned about the dramatic language at least when he's talking to/about Epignosis. The "Epi" thing is a reasonable inspiration for dramatic language.

I'm still chuckling that many are taking the "Epi" part of my post so seriously.

Dude you are doing that thing where you a rude to a person for no reason then say "heh only joking lighten up". Don't be that guy. That guy sucks.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd like more feedback on that motel room ISO. I think I found meaningful evidence that he is town. I made a similar point about bcornett in Talking Heads and nobody seemed to listen. It's nice to remove people from the pool.

I like the Mac was receptive to it despite his prior stated strong suspicions. He seems appropriately willing to re-assess, though his vote hasn't moved.

Gotta have somewhere to move it to Jimmy. There is time.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:motel room ISO

Spoiler: show

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:And the answer is...

BECAUSE HE'S SCUM!

woo!!

If you say so.

DrWilgy

what does he stand to gain by lying right here on Day 1? Or do you think he's bussing?

I mean no offense to motel room when I say that this question seems rather dense. Whether Wilgy is town or mafia, I think it's pretty clear what benefits he might potentially enjoy as a result of his lie. It looks a bit like filler.

Spoiler: show

motel room wrote:We're not even 24 hours into Day 1. I don;t think a Diiny lynch was a "given" at a few hours into the game (before Wilgy's claim).

Wilgy, have you played an infodumping-allowed game before?

I think this post will be important later. Bookmark it.

Spoiler: show

motel room wrote:

FZ. wrote:zebra, care to place a bet on me being scum? If you win, name your prize

FZ

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:Any other thoughts, motel room?

I will say that I agree with you that I think it's unlikely that there was a successful scum peek. I will also say that I'm considering voting for you today.

I'm mildly fond of these. I think this manner of a'ight bro well here's some suspicion out of the blue is within motel room's town boundaries.

Spoiler: show

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

This is probably his worst post for me; I agree with Mac that it's not great. I could understand viewing Enrique's treatment of Doc and Diiny dubiously (I did), but I don't see why switching his vote between his suspects was a crime. Townies do this all the time. This might be a manufactured attack.

Spoiler: show

motel room wrote:

Diiny wrote:Probably gonna switch to FZ for self preservation soon

Diiny wrote:Moving to FZ for self prez and that.

Someone tell me why they're voting me when Wilgy is literally just lying and there's no such thing as a non vt peek

Pretty soon I'm gonna change my vote. Heeere goes, look..

This is a 48 hour day. Self preservation now?

Valid question.

Spoiler: show

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

I want to hear YOUR opinion on Diiny.

For the record, I've always been perfectly okay with a Diiny lynch. Wilgy did look more dangerous for a bit, but really, as long as we get a bad guy today there's no rush. Lynching DrWilgy is taking too big a risk atm when we know so little about what he's trying to do.

I think Diiny is scum. I think DrWilgy most likely is but until Diiny is gone, we don't want to lynch him.

edgy as it may be I'm not as certain Diiny is scum

Why are you suspicious of me like you said?

I like motel room adopting an "edgy" read because he's never been afraid to disagree with popular opinion -- it's one of his best town traits. His self-awareness is also appealing. My only question here is why motel room felt the need to announce the edgy read and its edginess.

Spoiler: show

motel room wrote:in the second 24 hours of today we'll surely get a sober Wilgy and I think that'll be more enlightening than the current drunk, "depressing", self-vote Dr. I still think that cop gambit was towny.

Back in RYM land on pretty sure his first game with infodumping, MP tried a cop gambit which backfired on him but he made the move as town. A new game mechanic, town tries the tricks, imo.

so here, MP, while I think I agree with you, whats different about your gambit and his, because you were part of the reason I feel Wilgy was town but you are distancing from what he's done:

*snip huge quote*

I told you the reader to bookmark the earlier post because I knew this one was coming. I think they combine to evidence a pretty solid town-inclined mindset for motel room. He had this distinct thought in mind: that MP pulled a fake red peek in [maybe] his first open setup with legal infodumping. Let's return to the bookmarked post:

Spoiler: show

motel room wrote:We're not even 24 hours into Day 1. I don;t think a Diiny lynch was a "given" at a few hours into the game (before Wilgy's claim).

Wilgy, have you played an infodumping-allowed game before?

On Day 1, when confronted with Wilgy's fake red peek maneuver, motel room had the presence of mind to ask him this specific highlighted question: "have you played an infodumping-allowed game before?" This means that in this moment motel room was recalling what MP did in RYM #89 (faked a red peek as a vanilla townie) and applying that memory to Wilgy's move in this game. This looks like a very real effort to get a read on Wilgy based upon real data in motel room's personal Mafia arsenal. I love it.

~~~

Overall, there are a few moments that I'd question but I think he looks good in light of the bookmarked point. I welcome any dissenting perspectives -- I'd really like to know what MP thinks of motel room in light of this. And Diiny, since he also played in RYM #89.

Hmmm ... it is a good look.

MacDougall wrote:

motel room wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I dispute that his opinions are genuine. Always saying the most obvious thing in an alien tone.

My opinions are genuine and my tone is i dunno my tone. I'm probably never going to trust you as much as I did in the Talking Heads game but if you're town your guts off this time.

MacDougall wrote:Room's posts are grey and they smell like ashes.

fucking what

If I am town, I am off my guts? What? You know that all my reads were wrong?

You're never going to trust me as much as you did in the game that was a bad guy? Are you just trying to say that I fooled you too good for you to town read me? Surely if I play differently to that game then you'll town read me right? Or are you just justifying turning your light OMGUS into full blown OMGUS later?

Your opinions are genuine I'm sure. When you say things like this...

It can be genuine if you are bad.

Spoiler: show

motel room wrote:This is definitely not the same Wilgy from Talking Heads.

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

I want to hear YOUR opinion on Diiny.

For the record, I've always been perfectly okay with a Diiny lynch. Wilgy did look more dangerous for a bit, but really, as long as we get a bad guy today there's no rush. Lynching DrWilgy is taking too big a risk atm when we know so little about what he's trying to do.

I think Diiny is scum. I think DrWilgy most likely is but until Diiny is gone, we don't want to lynch him.

edgy as it may be I'm not as certain Diiny is scum

Why are you suspicious of me like you said?

motel room wrote:We're not even 24 hours into Day 1. I don;t think a Diiny lynch was a "given" at a few hours into the game (before Wilgy's claim).

Wilgy, have you played an infodumping-allowed game before?

This can be genuine if you are bad.

When it comes to balls on the line scum reads. You've given us this...

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:Any other thoughts, motel room?

I will say that I agree with you that I think it's unlikely that there was a successful scum peek. I will also say that I'm considering voting for you today.

Anything else? On, you know, anything that's being discussed.

you don't want to know why I'd be suspicious of you?

Your suspicion of enrique is strange because according to you, the only reason you had a scum read on him for having two scum reads and having trouble deciding which to vote for? How exactly is that scummy, like at all? I mean especially in hindsight, but your reason is the most obviously forced reasoning I can remember seeing in ages and would still be so if he flipped scum. If he flipped scum I'd expect you'd be bussing him. But speaking of bussing, or at the very least distancing your interactions with DFaraday are a little bit curious...

motel room wrote:

DFaraday wrote:The conversation really hit the ground running in this game. And here I thought tree Mafia would be more easygoing.

lets hope it gets a bit more breezy there fella.

Yeah cool we're all having fun here. I mean, both of you look to me like bad guys trying to blend in with the fluff posts but that's not much...

But where's your vote today? Oh it's on Mr 3 posts. Yeah I scum read him, but ... at least I made a point of why, and tried to question him relevant to his content. What's the point of asking him who he would have voted for yesterday? Your vote looks a hell of a lot like a scum putting a vote on a lurky teammate who is coming under no scrutiny. Is it going to stay there? Probably not now. But I reckon it would have had a good chance of staying there...

Speaking of questions Motel Room. About half of your posts are really pointed questions. Have you actually made any determinations with your questions. I haven't seen much follow up to the answers you received. Where's the goldmine of knowledge that has come about from your scathing questions? Are you sure you aren't just asking questions to feign contribution?

MacDougall wrote:I gotta say, it all pales in comparison to what I just pointed out about Motel Room though. Specifically.

1. He has only blasted out one accusation and the reason for it didn't make any sense.
2. He has asked a lot of questions that he has done nothing with at all.
3. His vote is on a scummy looking lurker right now after having a fluffy interaction with the guy on day 1. An alignment of either a) distancing or b) putting his vote on an easy out.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Yeah sick get to the part where motel room is bad.

Okay. Did you build a case for me to at? If not I'll just get into the trenches myself.

Really...

The more time you spend on this pointless crap that only you three actually care about the further down my reads list you're tumbling. You are more worried about defending yourself than helping me lynch a scum.

Yeah sick get to the part where motel room is bad.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: How about one of you RYMers answer the bloody question. It's quite specific I know, but it's out there and I think my suspicion of Enrique was entirely within the boundaries of what a town JJJ would do in any game.

I would have thought me placing you at the top of my reads list was enough of an indicator.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:You are my civ reads please just read Motel Room Jimbob.

I will. First I'm going to address Epi's case on me and ideally prevent this lot from making me dead.

Nobody is going to lynch you if people realise Motel Room is bad.

You are my civ reads please just read Motel Room Jimbob.

Okay so opinion one is that Motel Room is too bad to be bad.

Anyone else?

a2thezebra wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Mac what do you make of JJJ's more recent posts?

JJJ has made numerous more recent posts so you're going to have to be specific. I haven't seen a thing from James to make me question his alignment. I often am guilty of trying to see what isn't there with him for the glory of the thing so I understand if that's happening but like, Epignosis is outright OMGUSing him and I can't really see fault in what James is saying about him and I have no idea what you apparently saw to vote for him. I swear I saw you basically call Epi's case on him Epi shit before so weren't you agreeing with him? So perhaps let's start with you explaining yourself and I'll see if I follow the logic hey?

Sure. First, I called Epi's post Epi shit primarily to show him the error of his ways and shocker, he didn't get the point. I also wasn't convinced that his reactionary vote to JJJ was nothing more than an OMGUS, at that point at least. I was in agreement with JJJ's criticisms of Epi but I didn't see how JJJ was reaching the conclusion that any of those criticisms were alignment-indicative, so I asked him what made him think that. He responded with more criticisms that, to me at least, also seemed just as likely to be Epi being Epi as any sort of manipulation. More likely, actually. Epi's next post responding to JJJ convinced me that he was in fact being opportunistic (manufactured, bullshit, etc) with Epi's actions and statements in the game so far, so I voted JJJ.

Fast forward a bit.

Now despite claiming to look forward to an argument, JJJ returned to the thread with this post, and this is the main one I was curious to hear your opinion about Mac.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Phone at work.

When I read Epi's case against me, my gut tells me "wrong" and not "manipulative". I'll re-examine my suspicion and defend myself when time permits.

Zebra's reception of his case reads town to me. Some others seem receptive-but-tentative though, as I'd expect from those who know it'd be a lynch of town JJJ.

We'll see how I feel tonight.

I think JJJ saw that his opportunistic attempts at turning town against Epi had been discovered, so he decided to back-track big time and say what a civ JJJ would have said in the first place; Epi's case is wrong but not manipulative. Ironically, JJJ's case is both wrong and manipulative. His promised re-examining of his suspicion is highly dubious, and when I call him out on it, he overreacts.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Zebra, I'm pretty sure the very next post in this thread after you asked me what made Epi bad was me pointing out things that I found suspicious about Epi.

I absolutely don't care whether my timing appears convenient. I post reads when I have them without concerning myself with how I'll look as a result.

Okay! Good stuff. I do follow. Gee you're a good look this game.

A defense of JJJ would be that, man it's very easy to get caught in the heat of the moment and start analysing shoddy content as shoddy and see scum for it. Him backtracking on it blatantly in the thread could very easily just be him approaching it with a refreshed perspective.

However, I do find it strange that he then said that the posts were his things he found suspicious when the actual posts he is referring to were him effectively civ reading Epignosis.

These are unusual inconsistencies from James, and I don't have much experience with a James who has been caught effectively lying... My gut says though that a scum James would not get caught like that. I don't even think a scum James would bother posting on his phone while distracted with work because he's too cautious to even risk the possibility.

But you have shaken my read somewhat.

Now tell me how you feel about my case on Motel Room.

I gotta say, it all pales in comparison to what I just pointed out about Motel Room though. Specifically.

1. He has only blasted out one accusation and the reason for it didn't make any sense.
2. He has asked a lot of questions that he has done nothing with at all.
3. His vote is on a scummy looking lurker right now after having a fluffy interaction with the guy on day 1. An alignment of either a) distancing or b) putting his vote on an easy out.

a2thezebra wrote:I agreed (and still do) with each point you made, but again, it says nothing about Epi's alignment. That was what I wanted addressed, that's what you failed to address at the time, and that's what you changed your mind about when it resulted in some heat on you. Since you don't care about how convenient your timing looks, can you out yourself as scum already and we can make this a nice peaceful day that ends with your lynching?

How exactly does Epignosis throwing shade on those responsible for Enrique's lynch not indicate alignment. It's a hell of a thing for a guy to do to create a reaction. I actually give it a pretty bad look because the actual lynch of Enrique was the responsibility of at least some civilians due to the actual number on it, so for him to blanket state that we're all dumb for it isn't saying we're bad for it, so what exactly is it saying? You can take it both ways but it's an easy thing to invoke emotion out of so for you to say it says nothing about his alignment I don't agree with. Or are you saying that his posts aren't saying anything about Epi's alignment, not what Epi has actually done? If so, I actually tend to agree. But neither seem to be actually making points against each other that are alignment indicative so if it's bad they're both bad looks for it.

I must say I have now briefly entertained the idea that they are distancing from each other. Gosh an Epi + JJJ scum team is a scary proposition.

Now, Jimmy choosing to say that it was wrong rather than scummy indicates Jimmy thinks Epi is a civ I suppose. Which is, as you point out, an unusual backtrack for him.

TheFloyd73 wrote:

Diiny wrote:

TheFloyd73 wrote:

Diiny wrote:Oh, I thought he was accusing me of that but I guess he was just saying what happened generally?

In which case floyd tell me which of these votes are the most suspicious. Five to choose from.

Epi voting for me, although I think he just has a problem with me which he won't mention.

Motel's vote for Dfaraday is the one the also perplexes me.

I mean of the five votes for enrique.

Epi mentioned the fact that Mac voted for Enrique, despite saying he was "confirmed scum".

Enrique
5
JaggedJimmyJay (11), DrWilgy (12), MovingPictures07 (13), MacDougall (15), Diiny (16)
31%

After that turnaround, after having agreed (er, not disagreed) with Mac's list of "confirmed townies," after witnessing Mac put the deciding vote on Enrique the cop, after all that, you don't have ONE thing to say about MacDougall?

Maybe I'm not so simple minded.

This actually perplexes me for two reasons.
1. What drew Mac to change his mind? (I may need to reread the thread for this).
2. Epi has done his only clever motion this game, but still wants me exterminated.

Epi, what makes you think that Triple J and I have any association with each other?

Floyd I already answered that and I stated it at the time. Enrique started to behave the same way that Enrique behaved in the other game he got lynched as a bad guy. That's why I flipped. My other scum reads weren't anywhere near as strong as the ping I got from him.

Even Floyd asked a question.

Here's a good reason that DFaraday is bad. He's been here but he hasn't pushed anybody for an actual reason despite being more or less caught up. He just stated two mild looks. Why wouldn't he at least ask a question in the minute he put in today so far? Why didn't he try to be civ at all?

a2thezebra wrote:Mac what do you make of JJJ's more recent posts?

JJJ has made numerous more recent posts so you're going to have to be specific. I haven't seen a thing from James to make me question his alignment. I often am guilty of trying to see what isn't there with him for the glory of the thing so I understand if that's happening but like, Epignosis is outright OMGUSing him and I can't really see fault in what James is saying about him and I have no idea what you apparently saw to vote for him. I swear I saw you basically call Epi's case on him Epi shit before so weren't you agreeing with him? So perhaps let's start with you explaining yourself and I'll see if I follow the logic hey?

motel room wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I dispute that his opinions are genuine. Always saying the most obvious thing in an alien tone.

My opinions are genuine and my tone is i dunno my tone. I'm probably never going to trust you as much as I did in the Talking Heads game but if you're town your guts off this time.

MacDougall wrote:Room's posts are grey and they smell like ashes.

fucking what

If I am town, I am off my guts? What? You know that all my reads were wrong?

You're never going to trust me as much as you did in the game that was a bad guy? Are you just trying to say that I fooled you too good for you to town read me? Surely if I play differently to that game then you'll town read me right? Or are you just justifying turning your light OMGUS into full blown OMGUS later?

Your opinions are genuine I'm sure. When you say things like this...

It can be genuine if you are bad.
This can be genuine if you are bad.

When it comes to balls on the line scum reads. You've given us this...

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:u first tiger

right, i'm suss of you because of your little hop away from your Diiny vote to voting Wilgy after his cop claim, to getting back on Diiny. Reads like you didn't know where to sit and now have a theory involving them both being scum.

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:

motel room wrote:

Enrique wrote:Any other thoughts, motel room?

I will say that I agree with you that I think it's unlikely that there was a successful scum peek. I will also say that I'm considering voting for you today.

Anything else? On, you know, anything that's being discussed.

you don't want to know why I'd be suspicious of you?

Your suspicion of enrique is strange because according to you, the only reason you had a scum read on him for having two scum reads and having trouble deciding which to vote for? How exactly is that scummy, like at all? I mean especially in hindsight, but your reason is the most obviously forced reasoning I can remember seeing in ages and would still be so if he flipped scum. If he flipped scum I'd expect you'd be bussing him. But speaking of bussing, or at the very least distancing your interactions with DFaraday are a little bit curious...

motel room wrote:

DFaraday wrote:The conversation really hit the ground running in this game. And here I thought tree Mafia would be more easygoing.

lets hope it gets a bit more breezy there fella.

Yeah cool we're all having fun here. I mean, both of you look to me like bad guys trying to blend in with the fluff posts but that's not much...

But where's your vote today? Oh it's on Mr 3 posts. Yeah I scum read him, but ... at least I made a point of why, and tried to question him relevant to his content. What's the point of asking him who he would have voted for yesterday? Your vote looks a hell of a lot like a scum putting a vote on a lurky teammate who is coming under no scrutiny. Is it going to stay there? Probably not now. But I reckon it would have had a good chance of staying there...

Speaking of questions Motel Room. About half of your posts are really pointed questions. Have you actually made any determinations with your questions. I haven't seen much follow up to the answers you received. Where's the goldmine of knowledge that has come about from your scathing questions? Are you sure you aren't just asking questions to feign contribution?

DFaraday wrote:Alright, I've more or less caught up. Wilgy is looking pretty bad to me, as I can't see a good civ reason for his behavior. Epi is coming across as civ, and I think his JJJ case is sounding plausible, but tomorrow I'll read over JJJ to get a better handle on it.

"more or less caught up"

Are you caught up? How can you be more or less? Did you start on page 3 instead of page 1? You've made three posts in a game where everyone else has made a ton. You need to post more or you're going to get lynched for lurking dude. If you're a bad guy that's going to suck for your teammates. If you're a bad guy, please reply to this with a promise of producing more content and then go back to lurking so we can lynch you tomorrow. If you're a civ, what do you think of motel room voting you? Pretty neat huh.

JaggedJimmyJay
a2thezebra
Diiny
DrWilgy
MovingPictures07
FZ.
TheFloyd73
Epignosis
motel room
DFaraday

For those you who think James is a badder. I give to you my revised scumlist. Aren't I a unique snowflake.

Yes, I have moved Diiny waaaaaaaaay up the list. His play so far today has felt really nice and genuine to me. He has been very discerning. Me likey. DrWilgy was my previous best town read but he's dropped a little bit, not because of that bit where he tried to justify why he didn't change his vote, when he couldn't have but his posts since. He's drunk posting, which is annoying, but he's also chaos posting which I feel like a drunk guy would do when they get caught doing something bad. But, the lions share of his ISO is good so he stays high, and linki: he's back doing decent stuff so I can chalk up his mini chaos mode to drunken embarrassment.

I am firmly on James's side when it comes to the conversation between he and Epignosis. I have literally no idea where/why Epignosis shot out of the gate at Floyd and why he's being so mean to him, and I feel it's more likely to be a scum picking an easy target to produce content around than a civ just taking pot shots at a 16 year old new guy for kicks right?

Motel Room continues to bug the shit out of me, not because his content is bad so much, but that it's so measured. He only posts when he notices things that he can comment about, so I feel like he is avoiding discussions on the tough subjects and his posts have been very ... mild? Very ... conscientious? It's just a strange look. On top of that I just don't read him as genuine at all. Motel Room if you want to shake my suspicions I suggest you get your hands dirty.

Now I am strong civ reading a ton of players in this game and for that reason I have DFaraday as bad as fuck because of his low content. That's it really. I am scum reading him because I am civ reading mostly everybody else.

Jimmy and Zebra are coming across the best to me. Their thoughts are clear. I can comprehend them. I am vibing. Big ups to both if they are bad though. Lolz at Zebra having her vote on James though. That'd be right.

MP drops a bit because he's busy, it's not he that's moved so much as others around him.

FZ ... is strange. Half the posts look good to me and then some... not so good. FZ could be a baddie working their way into the game. The post Diiny caught is a bad look for FZ if you're looking for insincerity it's about the worst in the game.

Floyd, man just surely not? He's looking scummy again now that he's made some posts but surely, just surely not. He can't be scum again. If we were playing roulette or blackjack I'd put all my chips on it. Chance cannot be that cruel? I think he'd have probably replaced out if he was bad again too. But, he really does look bad. Ick. Floyd please be civ and play like it if you are. Google some advice or something.

Unfortunately, I have no extremely strong feelings about anybody. My vote for now is going on Motel Room. It could go on Epignosis or DFaraday by days end unless I see a scum tell that turns out to be wrong with 15 minutes left to go and contribute to another civ lynch by lynching a town read.

DrWilgy wrote:Who wants to box? I know... But had i reacted we wouldve at least had the chance to gibe a baddie

I want to be your friend so bad irl.

Diiny wrote:

TheFloyd73 wrote: Linki- I agree FZ, this game is getting pretty awful.

FZ. wrote:This game is getting worse by the minute

I need to reread people, and I don't have time for it now.

How much do you want to bet that one or both of these posters are scum

FZ in particular. Good catch. That post is mad insincere. Floyd's feelings are probably quite genuine though.