The Syndicate

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:14 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:11 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:05 am Mac I am here to talk about why your push is wrong

let me know what I have done that has caused this suspicion towards me
Lie about playing scummy on purpose
I didn't lie - I was having fun but I did make the deflection jokes knowing that I'd get scum read for them

The other things were fair game, that's just how I start every time, gifs and memes and skating to D2 when I have more reliable reads

So why did you get upset and bail.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:05 am Mac I am here to talk about why your push is wrong

let me know what I have done that has caused this suspicion towards me

Lie about playing scummy on purpose

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:46 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:05 am I'd much rather consolidate onto Tedxtr who profiles exactly how I expect a mafia to play here after catching heat from me
ok br0 I'm gonna say it

I don't care about your push

you just don't have the clout to pull a yeet on me toDay, and it just is what it is

Good for you. I look forward to another postgame Ted scum win.

Top of the poll

Contrast JPIC with Tedxtr.

Ted copped pressure. Did a couple of weird scummy things. Logged off and came back. Put on a town hat and defended his slot.

JPIC copped pressure. Got histrionic and self voted.

One is playing for self pres. One is not.

While JPIC's play isn't good it's more what I'd expect from someone with no teammates to answer to. Ted did what I expect a mafioso to do.

Also it's entirely valid to read Ted's town burst as just town. But contextually and in light of what came earlier it's totally within his range and his wincon as mafia to make that effort. So I can't see how it should dismiss the previous content which was just scummy.

And there is opposition to both their pushes.

I feel like I trust Alison a bit more than Tutuu so I'm more inclined to let her have her JPIC flip if I need to choose. I still think Nutella is right there and the better lynch anyway. And Ted is better again.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:40 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:38 am Oddmerta in isolation just pointing at someone else and trying to finesse others to buy into the read doesn't strike me as townie so I'd encourage you to show some working to back it up please.
I had the opposite read as you again! I thought mafia trying to shift the blame to others would go for people being actively suspected or LHF, not someone who's been mostly townread by people and who has no chance of being exed today.

Who says Tim is no chance? The mafia need to push on town to win the game and you don't know what misyeets you can get if you don't offer them up as an option.

Oddmerta in isolation just pointing at someone else and trying to finesse others to buy into the read doesn't strike me as townie so I'd encourage you to show some working to back it up please.

I can be swayed on Tim. He has had moments I've just seen a town there but he's good enough to post like a town and his impact isn't where I'd like it to be for what I expect of town Tim.

Nutella/Tedxtr for me.

Similarly it would be more optimal as mafia if he wasn't able to summon wim to just keep smiling and trolling here. I'm polarised by him. I think he's town because his choices are so difficult to parse.

JPIC has been poe all day and the first pressure that's felt viable has been Alison clamping down hard. Suddenly he's not having fun anymore. I don't understand why he wouldn't just drop the LHF playstyle now and try to offer reasons to be townread. As either alignment but particularly as town. Going for the cheap townclears from ate self voting rather than making an effort isn't great.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:26 am I have samu and tutuu as locktown

Got a Mac read? How bout an Alison read?

To me Oddmerta was just a really strong first post read that subsequently coasted and has failed to provide much in the way of town mindset at all ever since.

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:25 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:52 pm Oddmerta - Despite early clears, appears to have been overwhelmed in a way that can be struggling to find legitimate pathways as mafia, or simply just town that is coasting on being largely townread.
this one. i think it makes more sense than the total townclears on odd. and even though i scum lean them , i have my own paranoia, but i do not see many people having second thoughts about odd at all.

ISO them and see if there's anything juicy

You really do have caught for the wrong reasons energy right now. Alison is right.

JPIC just make reads man

What part of my Oddmerta read did you like?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:18 am FWIW I genuinely think JPIC's opener was NAI but his reaction to it wasn't.

Also Mac please don't scumread Hally

It was just one post. It's not something I'm pushing on. But it does qualify Nooks vote which matters more right now because he is in the POE.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:17 am I no longer endorse the Samu 3P read.

Also Mac doing it now is not suspicious because the idea of people being Rogues was brought back into his mind by my own case on Samu. The tell is when nobody has talked about Rogues at all and then you suddenly bring it up for no reason. Mac has reasons and he has been reminded of people being Rogue recently.

I actually just brought it up because it occurred to me twice prior and I hadn't mentioned it at those times. But I am in a different mindset atm and was offering nuanced nutella reads with a clear mind and players here actually listening to me.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:16 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:15 am Your opener wasn't NAI by my standards. It felt performative.
I was going to make that post regardless of alignment

This is good to know.

But why don't you have any reads? You've been here a lot and a lot of people have engaged you and read you. How can you have no reads?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:16 am Also I have no fucking clue what the Rogue does so I'm just going to treat Rogues as scum and kill them as eagerly as I would any scum member. If they're SK or some shit, I want to dispose of that as early as possible.

Yes I am in fuck the rogue mindset too

I think Hally can be mafia here. She made a post that I see mafia make very often where they quote a town and say "I'm not against your case (JPIC) but I'd rather kill Nutella".

It's what mafia say when there are two available misyeets and they prefer to fence sit between the two.

Your opener wasn't NAI by my standards. It felt performative.

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:12 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:11 am Personally I think Nutella is the rogue tbh.
do you think they would play differently as 3p than their usual scum/town meta?

She is scummy in ways she usually is but I haven't been able to establish solidly viable mafia teammates through reading her ISO for spew. She is usually good for spewing a teammate or two.

Also the way she engaged me earlier in the game about the rogue felt like she was trying to downplay the need to rogue hunt because she is the rogue.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:05 am People say I have done scummy stuff when this is literally what I do as town

I scum read your opener and have never been compelled to reevaluate you once.

Personally I think Nutella is the rogue tbh.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:06 am I think I'd vote nutella over ted if those are the wagons you want. What makes you think nutella is super good at reading juliets?

Nutella is super good at reading most people. Juliets isn't typically a hard person to read especially for someone with as much experience playing with her as nutella does.

I think Nutella is the mafia in the pair though. I've not seen the histrionic push on her pet cases that typifies her town play. She's shifting to where her vote best serves her. Moving from someone she established a legitimate case on to someone that I feel is very town but somehow already had two votes feels schemey to me.

I think if SPF is legitimately mafia that someone pushing her has TMI and it's distancing. I don't see any way a town with no information could consider her a top candidate personally. But obviously she doesn't have three mafia voting her. Right?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:01 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:00 am Regarding Nanook I tend to read him well. Nanook makes activity. If that activity lacks self preservation it's >rand town.
ok.

How much would you be up for a JPIC wagon today? I'm shocked he doesn't have more votes and the way pressure has vanished off him is bad. He's done scummy stuff and then unabashedly done basically nothing in response to multiple attempts to get people to do things.

It's like a policy exe, except it actually has a high chance of hitting scum!

JPIC gives me little reason to defend him. I have reservations because of that. He too lacks having made any effort to appear town. He would be doing a serious disservice to his team.

I'd much rather consolidate onto Tedxtr who profiles exactly how I expect a mafia to play here after catching heat from me. I still think Nutella is likely a hit because her worldview is so opposite to mine.

I also think Nutella/Juliets has high chance to be t/w. Very high. I'd probably turbo Juliets if I knew nut was town. If there's one person I'd trust to read Juliets it's her.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:59 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:57 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:54 am nanook can be scum for this Hally push tbh

I've been thinking back and forth about it, I hated it on first sight but I didn't want to be biased and automatically scumread someone just because he scumreads my townread. But I was thinking about the way wagons were forming and how Mac helped a lot in consolidating the wagons, and his vanity wagon on Hally seriously stuck out to me. I think he's hiding there because there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding nutella/SPF/JPIC/whoever and he doesn't want to take a stance on his buddy until it becomes clearer which way the wind is blowing.

I think I'm down for a nook wagon as well.
I'm not sure it doesn't make him obvious town actually.

Why would a mafia manufacture this unless specifically all the main wagons are mafia? What benefit to going after Hally of all people? From a position of vulnerability in the POE especially.

I will add that it came after I saw a post Hally made than made me sceptical of her too so the timing was somewhat of a mindmeld.
I appreciate how you and I have been quoting the same posts and forming exact opposite reads off them the entire game, Mac.

I'll put the nook suspicion on the back burner for now. It's not happening today anyway. The response I have is that if it's like one mafia and two town in the mix of people who could die, he doesn't want to get caught on the wagon of the dead townie especially if he's already in the POE, but he doesn't want to bus and potentially help exe a buddy unless he really has to either. Hiding on vanity wagons in a contentious wagon situation is definitely a scummy move. Ted did it last game.

I would say it's not very contentious right now though. He could choose to do all manner of things. Pushing on a consensus town mid catch up off what seems to be a random spark doesn't feel like the mindset I expect of mafia nook.

Regarding Nanook I tend to read him well. Nanook makes activity. If that activity lacks self preservation it's >rand town.

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:56 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:48 am
Poison Chan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:38 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:52 pm I feel like this list has high town equity and have seen significant self clearing posts from all of them:

Alison
Dyslexicon
Juliets
Hally
Master Radishes
Poison Chan
Samusamu
staypositivefriend
Timsup2nothin
tutuu

I think this list is probably town, but I have reservations:

DrWilgy - Specifically I cannot resolve some of the angles he's taken in the game, and DrWilgy appears to have finally regathered his wim from years gone by which makes him probably the best player in the entire game ergo foolish to ever trust.
dyachei - I cannot help but feel like they would have towncleared themselves to me if they were town. Have played the game quite myopically.
Herm - The ratio that is the frequency with which I have seen them post, or mentioned vs. the impact they have left on me leaves some to be desired. I would like to see some more reasoned perspectives.
Oddmerta - Despite early clears, appears to have been overwhelmed in a way that can be struggling to find legitimate pathways as mafia, or simply just town that is coasting on being largely townread.
sprityo - Has been scummy in their meta way but I feel they have been spewed clear through TMI.

This list is essentially pure null avocado assholes that should have their feet tickled until they show us their role cards:

ColinIsCool - I don't remember a thing.
Long Con - I can't recall them even posting.

This list is the current POE:

Justplayingitcool - Has been scummy since the start and done really nothing to warrant a clear besides lolcat. Clearing this guy for that behaviour is ridiculous.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Hasn't been talking to me much at all. Feels like someone who is struggling to find legitimate paths to take.
nutella - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Ignoring the fact I am scumreading her (generally when I scum read her as town she gets mad and either omgussing me or calls me out for being a dumbass).
tedxtr
@MacDougall why is dizzy, spf and tim so high up in your list? can help me read them?

also, i think there's a few players you have been reading in terms of midmeld ratios, is that the only way you should look at them?

you are playing with me for the first time, should you really trust me to put that high up in your list?
Dizzy feels town and is being townread by other townreads. Tim doesn't feel like he is motivated by anything other than trying to solve the game. SPF and I have very similar reads both town and mafia.

Mindmelding with some players I have meta on is a reliable way for me to solve them. Certainly not everyone. We have no flips or anything empirical yet so I am just using the tools I have.

I do believe I've played with you. Also hosted you. Also you seem town and are being town read by some of my townreads. I don't have any issues with you.
okay although i don't and can't sheep your reads because i think most of them are coming from some sort of meta and sheeping other consensus town reads?! but thanks for telling me how you came to that conclusion.

What reads do you disagree with?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:54 am nanook can be scum for this Hally push tbh

I've been thinking back and forth about it, I hated it on first sight but I didn't want to be biased and automatically scumread someone just because he scumreads my townread. But I was thinking about the way wagons were forming and how Mac helped a lot in consolidating the wagons, and his vanity wagon on Hally seriously stuck out to me. I think he's hiding there because there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding nutella/SPF/JPIC/whoever and he doesn't want to take a stance on his buddy until it becomes clearer which way the wind is blowing.

I think I'm down for a nook wagon as well.

I'm not sure it doesn't make him obvious town actually.

Why would a mafia manufacture this unless specifically all the main wagons are mafia? What benefit to going after Hally of all people? From a position of vulnerability in the POE especially.

I will add that it came after I saw a post Hally made than made me sceptical of her too so the timing was somewhat of a mindmeld.

I have about 8 players I near lock clear and Ted isn't one of them. So I struggle to believe any actual town could say he's top 2 with a straight face. There's townreading him. Then there's top 2 reading him.

Top 2? Really?

I think the fact that Nutella claims Tedxtr to be one of her two top town is pretty wild frankly.

3 votes on spf has me intrigued. I don't think I've seen a single post of hers that bothered me.

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:38 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:52 pm I feel like this list has high town equity and have seen significant self clearing posts from all of them:

Alison
Dyslexicon
Juliets
Hally
Master Radishes
Poison Chan
Samusamu
staypositivefriend
Timsup2nothin
tutuu

I think this list is probably town, but I have reservations:

DrWilgy - Specifically I cannot resolve some of the angles he's taken in the game, and DrWilgy appears to have finally regathered his wim from years gone by which makes him probably the best player in the entire game ergo foolish to ever trust.
dyachei - I cannot help but feel like they would have towncleared themselves to me if they were town. Have played the game quite myopically.
Herm - The ratio that is the frequency with which I have seen them post, or mentioned vs. the impact they have left on me leaves some to be desired. I would like to see some more reasoned perspectives.
Oddmerta - Despite early clears, appears to have been overwhelmed in a way that can be struggling to find legitimate pathways as mafia, or simply just town that is coasting on being largely townread.
sprityo - Has been scummy in their meta way but I feel they have been spewed clear through TMI.

This list is essentially pure null avocado assholes that should have their feet tickled until they show us their role cards:

ColinIsCool - I don't remember a thing.
Long Con - I can't recall them even posting.

This list is the current POE:

Justplayingitcool - Has been scummy since the start and done really nothing to warrant a clear besides lolcat. Clearing this guy for that behaviour is ridiculous.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Hasn't been talking to me much at all. Feels like someone who is struggling to find legitimate paths to take.
nutella - Meta read. Hasn't been mindmelding. Ignoring the fact I am scumreading her (generally when I scum read her as town she gets mad and either omgussing me or calls me out for being a dumbass).
tedxtr
@MacDougall why is dizzy, spf and tim so high up in your list? can help me read them?

also, i think there's a few players you have been reading in terms of midmeld ratios, is that the only way you should look at them?

you are playing with me for the first time, should you really trust me to put that high up in your list?

Dizzy feels town and is being townread by other townreads. Tim doesn't feel like he is motivated by anything other than trying to solve the game. SPF and I have very similar reads both town and mafia.

Mindmelding with some players I have meta on is a reliable way for me to solve them. Certainly not everyone. We have no flips or anything empirical yet so I am just using the tools I have.

I do believe I've played with you. Also hosted you. Also you seem town and are being town read by some of my townreads. I don't have any issues with you.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:04 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:02 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:00 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:37 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:34 pm I think you're probably just missing a decent amount of context on ted and assume you didn't read the chunk of the thread where he towncleared himself. I had been leaning scum on him earlier and your reasons are just outdated
I've read every post you're referring to. He didn't townclear himself. You are making this up. Also you were just part of a town team that lost to scum Tedxtr so to be this complacent about his slot is another point against you. You'd be paranoid as fuck about him if you were town.
Don't think ted is cleared but I have him as town. I was part of that team too.
I have yet to have anyone reasonably explain why Ted was being scummy on purpose then got upset for being called scum. Don't even think Ted himself has attempted to explain it. So until then I'm really not rating any Ted townreads.
I also don't have a good explanation for this. Maybe I should weaken my ted read. I just liked the content I saw from him later on.

He is not incapable of bursts of townie mindset. He endgamed as mafia by doing just that just one game ago.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:03 am
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:48 pm Scumreading nutella tbh
Why are all of your posts naked opportunism

Colin was suspicious of her before he made this post on case you missed that. The post I townread him for was him accusing her of insincerely reading him.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:00 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:59 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:58 am Wait

Is LC actually scum
Well I am struggling to understand his vanilla claim and particularly his explanation so perhaps.
Yeh same

It’s weird af as either alignment though yeah

I mean if one didn't realise that this was a role madness game and a vanilla claim is basically obviously a lie I can see how a town could just do that. But if that was why then what's with the explanation that makes no sense?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:00 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:37 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:34 pm I think you're probably just missing a decent amount of context on ted and assume you didn't read the chunk of the thread where he towncleared himself. I had been leaning scum on him earlier and your reasons are just outdated
I've read every post you're referring to. He didn't townclear himself. You are making this up. Also you were just part of a town team that lost to scum Tedxtr so to be this complacent about his slot is another point against you. You'd be paranoid as fuck about him if you were town.
Don't think ted is cleared but I have him as town. I was part of that team too.

I have yet to have anyone reasonably explain why Ted was being scummy on purpose then got upset for being called scum. Don't even think Ted himself has attempted to explain it. So until then I'm really not rating any Ted townreads.

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:00 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:31 am Hally can you turn into Batgirl and get mad and find mafia. This fluffiness is getting old. We need to kill people.
but i like fluffing

I more meant generally not specifically you. At some point we have to crack some eggs.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:59 am I am obv town

Have I convinced all of you all yet, and can I go back to sleep?

Do you have opinions on the alignments of players in this game?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:58 am Wait

Is LC actually scum

Well I am struggling to understand his vanilla claim and particularly his explanation so perhaps.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:56 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:53 am Explain how you thought you were vanilla plz LC
Probably because my ability is very weak.

So how does one mistake a weak ability for vanilla?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:15 pm Nutella you should know extremely well that any time my “wording” makes you uncomfortable it means I’m town and I am devoting zero braincells to my play

This post made me 180 to Colin being town. Highly town mindset.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:53 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:10 pm People in my lock town reads are currently voting as such:

JPIC 1
Nutella 1
Oddmerta 1
Samusamu 1
tedxtr 1
tutuu 1
No one 1

Someone want to tell me what's wrong with this picture?
I thought about it but felt there was still time to push vanity. Will consolidate onto Colin if you wish.

Push whoever but actually push. We need to start creating viable wagons to force scum to make decisions.

Explain how you thought you were vanilla plz LC

LC please sink those pointy Canadian fangs into analysing nutella and Juliets for me plz. Juliets subbed in to Fallen Prince's slot btw.

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