The Syndicate

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:01 am okay mac who are your top 3 town reads

Eh I would say yourself and Fingersplints are the top 2. Lime Coke, NAA and Seanzie are all below that tier. Then Falcon. Then the other two.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:59 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:58 am I struggle to understand how you can call MR one of the nullest slots in the game in a game that contains Seanzie, Fingersplints et al. If MR is null then everyone is null. MR has produced as much readable content as anyone in the game.
I thought you went on MR after he popped in to say pretty much nothing and then leave. maybe I misconstrued that interaction

Perhaps you somehow missed the part where I outlined by game solve at the start of this day in which I implied that I read day 1 and spent most of my backread tunneling MR until Ender usurped his position. I am not coming at MR from a place of "you are mafia for these two >rand posts". Those two potentially null looking posts were just enough for me to shift my quite fixed worldview back into the inverse direction. Particularly in light of Ender's improved day 2 contributions.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:00 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:58 am I struggle to understand how you can call MR one of the nullest slots in the game in a game that contains Seanzie, Fingersplints et al. If MR is null then everyone is null. MR has produced as much readable content as anyone in the game.
I think I’ve produced a decent amount of content to be accurately read by most.

Sure and I think the evidence indicates that MR has produced more.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:58 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:57 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:32 am @MacDougall @falcon45ca explain yourselves. so many words and you end up on one of the nullest players in the game
I do not believe MR to be null. Certainly not one of the "nullest" players in the game. Perhaps you think MR to be null in the sense that he's a difficult read. My view on MR is that yes he can be difficult to read, but also similar to myself, that if his reads are simply bad and his play largely does not vibe with me that it is because he is not town and also specifically a mafia that is very focused on the game at hand.

Porscha I appreciate your attempts to push the game forward and encourage you to do so but you are very much barking up the wrong tree going after me if you are town, which at this juncture given how little effort anyone but you is putting forth I have little choice but to take as a given. If you wish to put the mafia in a worse situation it would be a good idea to solve my slot to your contentment first and then work with me, as opposed to beginning at a random point of "let's vote" Mac, which is practically the absolute best possible thing for the mafia at this point in the game that you could do.
okay fine. why did you give up on ender vote

I have done no such thing. I have moved my vote from Ender to another scumread. I currently believe these two to be the most likely mafia in the game independent of associatives that may or may not imply something different.

I think that on my scan of the day 1 what I saw was largely a bunch of disconnected lost and slanking town and two wolves confused about how to handle a game in which they appeared to be the only ones not named Lime Coke that were earnestly playing it.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:57 am Is there a scenario where we flip Dunya and she's the actual mafa?

Oh yes how humorous the old "maybe everyone is town and the mafia is the wolf" gag. I am extremely tickled. Thank you Lime Coke.

I struggle to understand how you can call MR one of the nullest slots in the game in a game that contains Seanzie, Fingersplints et al. If MR is null then everyone is null. MR has produced as much readable content as anyone in the game.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:32 am @MacDougall @falcon45ca explain yourselves. so many words and you end up on one of the nullest players in the game

I do not believe MR to be null. Certainly not one of the "nullest" players in the game. Perhaps you think MR to be null in the sense that he's a difficult read. My view on MR is that yes he can be difficult to read, but also similar to myself, that if his reads are simply bad and his play largely does not vibe with me that it is because he is not town and also specifically a mafia that is very focused on the game at hand.

Porscha I appreciate your attempts to push the game forward and encourage you to do so but you are very much barking up the wrong tree going after me if you are town, which at this juncture given how little effort anyone but you is putting forth I have little choice but to take as a given. If you wish to put the mafia in a worse situation it would be a good idea to solve my slot to your contentment first and then work with me, as opposed to beginning at a random point of "let's vote" Mac, which is practically the absolute best possible thing for the mafia at this point in the game that you could do.

it's because people backread games and when they do that they generally read games poorly and give it town points

because he has no reason to be calling you obvious town and you'd be aware of that more than anyone... you aren't that easy to pocket

I think this day requires a Falcon chop strictly for the benefit of those scumreading him either being proven right or having their hubris and game control removed.

I believe town MR would be scumreading NAA right now.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:46 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:41 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:16 pm @MacDougall why are you voting obv!town MR?
MR is literally and unequivocally the scummiest player in this game on play and nowhere near obvious town status.

@Master Radishes chime in here plz.
Sure: you're wrong.

Or maybe you're right, I dunno, but you've never been particularly good at reading me iirc, so you're still wrong.

Bad answer. I was asking you to react to him giving you an awful obvious town status. Rather than being honest with him you attacked me. You're interested in what he is offering you here which is baseless defense and not interested in solving.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:09 pm I did like MR's EOD, though, which makes me feel like I'm re-evalling MR due to pressure of Mac + the not great response. :/

Yes MRs eod wasn't bad. Every segment before and since has been nonsense.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:05 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:03 pm I'm gonna be pretty mad if we have NAA in gamethrowing mode tbh.
If my read is bad, it's game throwing, if your ambiguous read is bad, people need to get off your back .

I actually don't mind banter, but you need to pick a topic that doesn't come up literally every game.

I am not mafia. You speaking as though your reads are a foregone conclusion dissuaded me from attempting to persuade you that I'm not and simply play around you. If we lose because of that I will be annoyed.

I'm gonna be pretty mad if we have NAA in gamethrowing mode tbh.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:16 pm @MacDougall why are you voting obv!town MR?

MR is literally and unequivocally the scummiest player in this game on play and nowhere near obvious town status.

@Master Radishes chime in here plz.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:38 pm I mean, we've got NAA calling MR obv town, and somehow there are player's who are buying this bullshit?

His reads aren't real

Mmm the only problem with that is that NAA has a condition that means often he does these kinds of things when town.

Lol I just realised this is a heist and not mountainous.

[VOTE: MR] aubergine

Wow that's it for MR. Okay I guess.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:44 pm I too have read back and solved the game, but I'm gonna hold my opinions until game's end to make it fair.

Lol why are you starting the game day low key insulting me?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:42 pm Mac caught me so now I'm f-f-f-frozen

Strange post given what I actually said

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:32 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:38 pm I think that Fingersplints, LC and Porscha are all pretty much just town here. Porscha a tier below the other two. Seanzie I think is likely to be town too.
Why do you think I'm town? I've done fuckall thus far.

ender voted you lol

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:02 pm So, Mac is mafia and we just kill Mac (if somehow town) -> Ender (otherwise) -> Falcon

This is not a real read. You are not this bad at mafia.

I doubt LC would hard flip to side with me like that if you were town and he was mafia. He would much prefer to revel in me being embarrassingly wrong and continue to pocket you while arguing with me. He might even go as far as voting me and pushing me.

@Seanzie what say you?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:53 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:51 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:50 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:48 pm Nook death would at level 1 imply a team of like Seanzie/Falcon or something which is just like ... okay if that's the team and the town fucked d1 up that hard then lol I guess. More likely is that he was chosen to die specifically because his reads were not good and the mafia wanted them to be sheeped.
Doesn't that imply I'm not wolf though?

Also actually on that note me as wolf probably doesn't N1 Nanook because it takes a while for him to solidify on me being wolf and there are bigger threats to me.
If the latter is the reality how does it imply you're not a wolf?
Nanook scumread me on D1 pretty sure. =P

But had his vote on Seanzie. All the more reason to kill him.

We don't use wifom NKA to defend ourselves from a spurious early day 2 push Ender lol. Come on now.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:50 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:48 pm Nook death would at level 1 imply a team of like Seanzie/Falcon or something which is just like ... okay if that's the team and the town fucked d1 up that hard then lol I guess. More likely is that he was chosen to die specifically because his reads were not good and the mafia wanted them to be sheeped.
Doesn't that imply I'm not wolf though?

Also actually on that note me as wolf probably doesn't N1 Nanook because it takes a while for him to solidify on me being wolf and there are bigger threats to me.

If the latter is the reality how does it imply you're not a wolf?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:47 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:45 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:43 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:32 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:03 pm Current votes for the record:

Wilgy - 2 (falc, MR)
falcon - 2 (NAA, LC)
MR - 2 (Porscha, Wilgy)
Seanzie - 2 (Ender, Nook)

No other votes
Also MR can literally only be mafia with Falcon here due to VC. If MR was mafia with anyone else then there would not have been a 4 way rand and MR would not have been close. I do not think that is the team.

In fact, I don't believe any wolves were in this rand, for similar reasons.
If it is Falcon/MR why didn't they just vote Seanzie earlier? In actual fact I think MR/Falcon is the least likely team from that rand because MR started the votes on Falcon in a volatile situation.
So you don't think they can be a team at all and I only think that is the only logical team that MR makes sense to be in otherwise he would have just put his vote back on Falcon so he wouldn't be in the rand.
I mean I straight up think MR is town from EOD yesterday.

Falc I don't think is so cleared from that because EOD was kinda quiet. It was Me/LC/MR/A little bit of NAA/Falc from memory.

I don't mind killing Falcon first because it's entirely possible he's mafia from my backread. I am just reading you as much more likely to be mafia than him, and I don't see you paired.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:47 pm @MacDougall is it distancing if me scum reading someone guarantees they don't get killed?

Lol. Yes, it's like distancing with no drawback.

Nook death would at level 1 imply a team of like Seanzie/Falcon or something which is just like ... okay if that's the team and the town fucked d1 up that hard then lol I guess. More likely is that he was chosen to die specifically because his reads were not good and the mafia wanted them to be sheeped.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:45 pm
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:43 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:32 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:03 pm Current votes for the record:

Wilgy - 2 (falc, MR)
falcon - 2 (NAA, LC)
MR - 2 (Porscha, Wilgy)
Seanzie - 2 (Ender, Nook)

No other votes
Also MR can literally only be mafia with Falcon here due to VC. If MR was mafia with anyone else then there would not have been a 4 way rand and MR would not have been close. I do not think that is the team.

In fact, I don't believe any wolves were in this rand, for similar reasons.
If it is Falcon/MR why didn't they just vote Seanzie earlier? In actual fact I think MR/Falcon is the least likely team from that rand because MR started the votes on Falcon in a volatile situation.
So you don't think they can be a team at all and I only think that is the only logical team that MR makes sense to be in otherwise he would have just put his vote back on Falcon so he wouldn't be in the rand.

Point being here is that you're helping the argument I already had that MR isn't mafia and that you were trying to pocket him lol.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:44 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:34 pm Okay, well my instinct read was correct on Falcon...

Damn you, Nanook.
Why is Mac's words so suddenly impactful for you?

When things are dire and confidence is low all one really needs is for someone to sound like they have a direction and to provide one with purpose. Leadership 101 lol.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:43 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:32 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:03 pm Current votes for the record:

Wilgy - 2 (falc, MR)
falcon - 2 (NAA, LC)
MR - 2 (Porscha, Wilgy)
Seanzie - 2 (Ender, Nook)

No other votes
Also MR can literally only be mafia with Falcon here due to VC. If MR was mafia with anyone else then there would not have been a 4 way rand and MR would not have been close. I do not think that is the team.

In fact, I don't believe any wolves were in this rand, for similar reasons.
If it is Falcon/MR why didn't they just vote Seanzie earlier? In actual fact I think MR/Falcon is the least likely team from that rand because MR started the votes on Falcon in a volatile situation.

So you don't think they can be a team at all and I only think that is the only logical team that MR makes sense to be in otherwise he would have just put his vote back on Falcon so he wouldn't be in the rand.

Anyway my solve is basically

Ender Wiggin is 90% mafia
There is a probably difference check between Falcon/NAA (albeit plausible that NAA just hard distanced Falcon out of the gate cuz of mountainous strategy)
If I am wrong on EW then I was probably just right on MR in the first place.

So for me it's EW/MR different (but significantly more likely EW is mafia) and Falcon/NAA different (kinda 50/50 with a fractional lean towards Falcon being town and the possibility they are actually teammates).

Feel free to chew on that while I go to work and forget about this game.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:37 pm I think this counts as the first time I've been busy this game and came back to a bunch of posts. And by busy I mean for like 30m rather than 12 hours.

You are not going to enjoy what you returned to.

I think that Fingersplints, LC and Porscha are all pretty much just town here. Porscha a tier below the other two. Seanzie I think is likely to be town too.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:35 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:34 pm For Falcon to be mafia, LC and NAA would need to be town, and the two living mafia would have had to, again, literally just be Falcon and MR otherwise Falcon would not have been in a 4 way rand at 2.
I'm going to just go ahead and say, I had no clue how ties would resolve, not did I have any clue when EoD was... Does your analysis account for that?

Well yeah cuz it doesn't really matter cuz this analysis is about Falcon and you were going to vote on Falcon regardless of when EOD was, and regardless of how the rands resolved, unless you are mafia and your partner was wagoned, which if you are mafia your partner was not wagoned because I know who the mafia is that would not be you, because they are obvious (and were not wagoned).

Despite me thinking Falcon is not mafia, I wouldn't object too violently to him being wagoned today.

Falcon, can, be mafia. He is in my very narrow POE. However I read him as town on play and I read the gamestate around him as making him quite likely town also.

For Falcon to be mafia, LC and NAA would need to be town, and the two living mafia would have had to, again, literally just be Falcon and MR otherwise Falcon would not have been in a 4 way rand at 2.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:31 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:29 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:27 pm Mac & Falcon are the mafia. Game solved.
Is this going to be an ongoing thing for you until Falcon dies?
I mean, my objective is to kill mafia, Falcon is mafia.

I do not think Falcon is mafia.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:03 pm Current votes for the record:

Wilgy - 2 (falc, MR)
falcon - 2 (NAA, LC)
MR - 2 (Porscha, Wilgy)
Seanzie - 2 (Ender, Nook)

No other votes

Also MR can literally only be mafia with Falcon here due to VC. If MR was mafia with anyone else then there would not have been a 4 way rand and MR would not have been close. I do not think that is the team.

In fact, I don't believe any wolves were in this rand, for similar reasons.

Okay so like while I was reading day 1 I was like "how is this person not being wagoned" and then I noticed that the answer is because the town were being potatoes and the wolves had most of the thread control day 1 and were choosing to pocket him. That person is you @master radishes.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:27 pm Mac & Falcon are the mafia. Game solved.

Is this going to be an ongoing thing for you until Falcon dies?

Okay so what happened was that during my backreading I had like one player as ridiculously obvious mafia, but then another player emerged as even more ridiculously obvious mafia, and then they sort of did a thing that rendered them unlikely teammates which helped me reevaluate off the first guy being as ridiculously obvious as I thought. So really I have ONE 90% hit and the other one is a narrow POE (that sadly didn't contain Nanook so it didn't get more narrow via NK).

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:26 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:24 pm I'm not gonna lie. I solved the game overnight. Like legit know who both mafia are. The town in this game should feel very bad.
Do tell.

I will but I'm curious to see how everyone reacts to me saying that first.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:16 pm So Nanook had Ender, Sean, Falcon as wolf reads...which just puts my confidence at a low.

Had Finger as town, Wilgy as town.

Yes your confidence should be low. But it's okay I'll help you rebuild it.

I'm not gonna lie. I solved the game overnight. Like legit know who both mafia are. The town in this game should feel very bad.

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