The Syndicate

We killed Epignosis because of the same reason we killed everybody else we killed.

I already have my winner banner

I also got in trouble for guessing that bea was ahriman lol

bea wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Basically just be more responsible with your vote. I intentionally tried to play this one like a cautionary tale. The mafia meta here allowed me to skate through day after day actually being outwardly obviously bad because bad play is written off as bad, not mafia. As a civilian it can be hard to keep up with contributions but ultimately your biggest obvious influence is your vote and if you are thoughtful with it, as the game goes by it builds the pressure on the bad guys and makes them stand out more.

But for real, Boomslang buddy wtf.

I reckon Boomslang did the civs a favour though because LC was right in the hammer of being played by me, bless him. He'd already wasted two separate nights on giving me BTSC and had another one blocked. Had me first night and then I told him to get Wilgy in there... He chose bea of his own accord out of fear that I kept telling him to invite my teammies (I actually had just told him to invite Matt hahaha) which in hindsight was probably not the wisest choice because bea, bless her she's such a trusting lady he probably should have invited someone a bit more discerning to analyse the situation.

You saw how much me and Wilgy simply HAVING btsc with LC convinced bea we were good, btsc is a strange beast because you just can't help but trust who you're talking to. I did the same thing in AWR with Hamburger Boy (who fuck me is an outrageously good player). If he invited a couple more civs before dying Wilgy and myself might have found ourself part of a civvie voting bloc hahaha.
I
He didn't trust you 100 btw. I swapped your powers to him that night to see if he ended up deaded. It was more the role than lc truat. When I couldn't pin you down to any role but that role, it was easy to believe that you were on the up and up. Lc and I did work out a thread code. And don't think for one red second he didn't have to work HARD in our bts to get me to trust that he wasn't bad.

In the end, maybe he would have seen it and things would have been different. But yea. Sweet trusting bea was trying to poke her own holes, she was just the fail.

bea, I am sorry. You're way lovely and awesome and sweet. Next time you are bad fool the shit out of me in retaliation.

Keeping in mind that it wasn't until about 3 days later that the thread started to realise there was more than one team and Draco would have been THE THIRD Epic Nose to die

Matt wrote:Fyi LC, I really did miss the vote on accident the day you were lynched. I think Mac really did want to save you for the cred, but I can't exactly remember. In fact, Wilgy, didn't you really miss the vote that day too, or not? I don't recall.

I think early in the game, only one of us sent in our night powers on night 2 or 3 because we all forgot to send them in lulz.

Yes both you idiots no showed. LC would have survived and Draconus would have been lynched way earlier and we would have looked like fucking heroes.

Turnip Head wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Lol Matt dominates everybody and magically has to share the victory with the other scum team and an indy because fuzzies.

Booooooooooo
I feel so sorry for you. Here have another win.

Mate. Yes please.

Lol Matt dominates everybody and magically has to share the victory with the other scum team and an indy because fuzzies.

Booooooooooo

Actually that reminds me, LC who was the other person you had BTSC with?

Basically just be more responsible with your vote. I intentionally tried to play this one like a cautionary tale. The mafia meta here allowed me to skate through day after day actually being outwardly obviously bad because bad play is written off as bad, not mafia. As a civilian it can be hard to keep up with contributions but ultimately your biggest obvious influence is your vote and if you are thoughtful with it, as the game goes by it builds the pressure on the bad guys and makes them stand out more.

But for real, Boomslang buddy wtf.

I reckon Boomslang did the civs a favour though because LC was right in the hammer of being played by me, bless him. He'd already wasted two separate nights on giving me BTSC and had another one blocked. Had me first night and then I told him to get Wilgy in there... He chose bea of his own accord out of fear that I kept telling him to invite my teammies (I actually had just told him to invite Matt hahaha) which in hindsight was probably not the wisest choice because bea, bless her she's such a trusting lady he probably should have invited someone a bit more discerning to analyse the situation.

You saw how much me and Wilgy simply HAVING btsc with LC convinced bea we were good, btsc is a strange beast because you just can't help but trust who you're talking to. I did the same thing in AWR with Hamburger Boy (who fuck me is an outrageously good player). If he invited a couple more civs before dying Wilgy and myself might have found ourself part of a civvie voting bloc hahaha.

I think if there is one piece of advice I'd like to give to everybody really, it's that as the day closes, go through all the cases and put your vote on the one that is the right combination of best case + most likely to be lynched. Far too often people just vote for the candidate that they built their own case on, or worse they just drive by vote someone on a ping that they haven't even elaborated on. When civilians play that way it is just way too easy as a bad guy to just not have to answer for your vote.

It's okay Marmot, you win in spirit.

Yeah we killed Zebra because I just wanted her out of my life.

Also day 1 Mac lives on. Called Lorab out in my first post hahaha. Called Draco out. Zebra talked her way out of my scum read but DH had me fooled for a few days at least.

Also Wilgy and I had the never forget banner in our signatures the entire time like come on guys.

Can vouch that Matt was a nervous wreck when he was in btsc with Metalmarsh. Can also vouch that he was a nervous wreck pretty much the entire game. Can also vouch that he was super upset that he had to lie to Metalmarsh.

I forgot to mention that Motel Room almost got mod-killed for low participation and actually wanted to be. We had to beg him to interrupt his holidays to just play stupidly because we figured everyone would assume if he was bad that he wouldn't play that stupid. Ricochet called it as it was at one point. Motel Room was actually supposed to switch his vote from Wilgy to Draconus on the day that neither were lynched. Glad he didn't because it would have looked super bad.

bea wrote:They hungered me to vote and casebuild on one of their own? That's some ballz there.

I am impressed. You got me to jump on that grenade soley because I thought you had to be civ if someone was FORCING me to come out against you. Then guilt and number of days before I would die vs number of days the game would likely last kicked in and I took the "high road."

Mac. You will have to fight so hard now. And I'm sorry for that. Most I think of as good until proven otherwise. You are now bad untill proven good.

How about everyone is nothing until you get an inclination that they are something?

bea wrote:Also where did the hunger curses cone from? Was that newt then?

We hungered you onto me to encourage you to believe that I am not bad.

We would have won on a fair few occasions late game if not for misfortune. If I didn't change from targeting FZ to sorsha we would have won and the two indies would have too. Had sorsha actually died we'd have won the next day anyway because we had feed and double vote in play (the mods actually made a boo boo there). If Metalmarsh had have been lynched instead of Motel Room, we'd have won then too. We'd have won almost certainly the following day had DharmaHelper not killed Wilgy.

I don't think it was mentioned that our four roles were actually interchangeable in way. One of our team abilities was being able to select a role to drop as we lost players. I actually was the protector from the beginning but I had dropped it when Motel Room died and had become the doublevoter. Matt was always the feeder. The mods thought we wanted to drop the feed role, but we hadn't so the night post was wrong. We still had the doublevote and the feed in play when Matt and I were both alive. I actually thought Matt and I were in a coinflip situation but evidently FZ had given Metalmarsh extra votes. I think had I survived we'd have probably not won in hindsight. Anyway yeah so if Sorsha died Matt and I together had too much voter influence to lose the next day. So not only did I fuck up by not killing FZ, sorsha not dying really fucked me over haha.

I almost did choose to keep the protect and actually target and protect myself at the same time to make myself look like a civ so it was amusing when people started suggesting sorsha did it to herself. Should have tried it but alas we won anyway.

The Llama Team Modus Operandi:

Vociferously defend teammates even in extremely precarious situations
Kill anyone who suspects us, even if they seem likely to be lynched
Make insane plays in the thread that people will invariably say "they couldn't possibly be mafia doing that"
Gambit, gambit, gambit
Buddy the fuck out of everybody who ever civ reads you even remotely
No bussing

tl;dr Do all the things that everyone is convinced the mafia don't do that are obviously beneficial tactics to do as mafia. Win via wifom.

All hail King Matt

DharmaHelper wrote:Pslam 71:20

Please stop posting in the thread Team Fail.

Why would I indeed.

I can see I have no chance at convincing anybody but at least I think I've left a pretty good legacy on Matt/FZ in case magic miracles occur.

Sorsha wrote:Mac- if it's Matt/Fz why did they pick me?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Sorsha wrote:I don't know Mac- who would a Matt/FZ team try to kill? Why would they pick me?

Who would you have picked?

I haven't tried working out many players roles as the game went on. The roles are turning out to not be like they were in the original games- powers and alignments have been changed so I gave up trying to figure it out.
I think Mac would pick you. You can take that to the bank. :P
Me too!

Linki- But the last day was when I posted about my suspicions of you. I think you tried to shut me up.

Let's see. Matt/FZ have to pick between sorsha, Mac, and bea.

Who would they kill? Tough choice.

Ricochet wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Ok, so you protected motel and then treated his survival as sign the baddies wanted him removed and that he's not bad?

Cold? Warm? Warmer?

linki: for a character, Ahriman only disclosed himself like once in the entire game and said nothing of value, really, that I haven't said in my banner sig as well. What do you mean of that?
I dunno man I just recall someone saying ahriman in the thread so I went and checked out what that role can do.

As for your other guess.
The point of cold or warm is to help me out, not shrug it off.

Cold/warm is a ridiculous way to get around infodumping and I'm not playing that game.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Sorsha wrote:I don't know Mac- who would a Matt/FZ team try to kill? Why would they pick me?

Who would you have picked?

I haven't tried working out many players roles as the game went on. The roles are turning out to not be like they were in the original games- powers and alignments have been changed so I gave up trying to figure it out.
I think Mac would pick you. You can take that to the bank. :P

Yeah I would have killed the player who had been voting alongside me all game instead of the one who was attacking me.

You can take my face to the bank.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MacDougall wrote:That's what I mean. Metalmarsh is not going to change his vote because why would he. He is a neutral. He doesn't care who he wins with. I'm not suggesting he doesn't think I'm bad, I just don't think he cares enough to consider I am good to change his vote.

I think the evidence is there that I am a certain role tbh. The fact that nobody has worked it out except possibly bea is fairly testament to the fact that nobody cares.

Who last night would a potential Matt and FZ team have tried to kill? Who would a potential team contain me in it try to kill?

The evidence is there should you want/choose to see it. But I admit that I went about things in a way that assisted the scum to make me the obvious mislynch, and that's on me. I got overconfident with what I thought I knew.
Point me to the evidence.
I hard defended someone who didn't die at night.
Who is that? motel room?

I'm not sure what this evidence means exactly. If you're claiming a protector role, then there's also a certain Draconus who had the ability to voteblock players with a chance to kill them.

Why would Draconus have vote blocked a guy who barely posted?

Sorsha wrote:I don't know Mac- who would a Matt/FZ team try to kill? Why would they pick me?

Who would you have picked?

I haven't tried working out many players roles as the game went on. The roles are turning out to not be like they were in the original games- powers and alignments have been changed so I gave up trying to figure it out.

If I was bad, I would have killed FZ if she wasn't my partner. In a heartbeat.

Ricochet wrote:Ok, so you protected motel and then treated his survival as sign the baddies wanted him removed and that he's not bad?

Cold? Warm? Warmer?

linki: for a character, Ahriman only disclosed himself like once in the entire game and said nothing of value, really, that I haven't said in my banner sig as well. What do you mean of that?

I dunno man I just recall someone saying ahriman in the thread so I went and checked out what that role can do.

As for your other guess.

I can't believe my mislynch is going to result in the civilians losing for the second straight large game. I am going to start gaining a reputation here.

Oh well hopefully bea is this ahriman character I keep hearing so much about and magically has 3 extra votes. Then we'll soon be talking about civ MVP bea.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MacDougall wrote:That's what I mean. Metalmarsh is not going to change his vote because why would he. He is a neutral. He doesn't care who he wins with. I'm not suggesting he doesn't think I'm bad, I just don't think he cares enough to consider I am good to change his vote.

I think the evidence is there that I am a certain role tbh. The fact that nobody has worked it out except possibly bea is fairly testament to the fact that nobody cares.

Who last night would a potential Matt and FZ team have tried to kill? Who would a potential team contain me in it try to kill?

The evidence is there should you want/choose to see it. But I admit that I went about things in a way that assisted the scum to make me the obvious mislynch, and that's on me. I got overconfident with what I thought I knew.
Point me to the evidence.

I hard defended someone who didn't die at night.

Ricochet wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Motel was loose cannon and probably the only valuable thing he did was to distance from teamies, by voting Wilgy for instance.

linki: Who? Him? Egg?

linki: "what we know happened with Motel Room"? What do you mean?

LET EME ORAPSPO
There was one particular significant thing that happened to Motel Room that shaped the discussion around Motel Room for many days that has since been proven wrong.
Yes. Him surviving a night kill. Even he said he knows why that is. But... he was bad...

He probably did know. That doesn't mean what you are insinuating.

Ricochet wrote:Motel was loose cannon and probably the only valuable thing he did was to distance from teamies, by voting Wilgy for instance.

linki: Who? Him? Egg?

linki: "what we know happened with Motel Room"? What do you mean?

LET EME ORAPSPO

There was one particular significant thing that happened to Motel Room that shaped the discussion around Motel Room for many days that has since been proven wrong.

That's what I mean. Metalmarsh is not going to change his vote because why would he. He is a neutral. He doesn't care who he wins with. I'm not suggesting he doesn't think I'm bad, I just don't think he cares enough to consider I am good to change his vote.

I think the evidence is there that I am a certain role tbh. The fact that nobody has worked it out except possibly bea is fairly testament to the fact that nobody cares.

Who last night would a potential Matt and FZ team have tried to kill? Who would a potential team contain me in it try to kill?

The evidence is there should you want/choose to see it. But I admit that I went about things in a way that assisted the scum to make me the obvious mislynch, and that's on me. I got overconfident with what I thought I knew.

MacDougall wrote:Okay so I lied about knowing for sure that Motel Room was good but when I die you will see why.

Consider how else I would have come to the conclusion that Motel Room was good, knowing what we know happened with Motel Room. Enough for me to put my dick on the line but still possibly be wrong?

MacDougall wrote:
FZ. wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
FZ. wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
FZ. wrote:LOL, okay then. Let the other civvies, whoever they are, make their decision. Mac, your game throughout the game has been crazy. You've made some very poor judgements, and I'm not talking about lynching civvies or whatever. I'm talking about the way you played which can't be civvie oriented. I seriously have no idea why you did it. I don't know why you're going the crazy way now either. Maybe it's because you realize you've slipped with all your lies and "knowledge", but if anyone is going to buy me being bad, I really won't know what else to say.

I think the evidence speaks for itself.
You should really stop criticizing the way other people play the game FZ it's not very nice.
I'm sorry and apologize. I just really hate it when baddies let the civvies fight among themselves and don't bother to post. I get that RL can sometimes affect the way you play. People are allowed to be busy, but a. I'd expect them to not appear only when they're about to be lynched, because that to me proves they are lurking and not really busy, and b. I expect them to tell us that RL is preventing them from playing. Motel room never even said anything about why he isn't posting anything. He just lurked. I don't think that's a championship style. I at least stand behind my words. The only real baddie game I've played here is Pikmin and I gave it everything I have. I'm sorry I expect others what I expect of myself.
What are you even talking about? I am referring to the fact that you said I have made "very poor judgements" when I suspected DharmaHelper (almost exclusively), Draconus, Lorab and Zebra. The fact that I have been wrong about a couple of things isn't a reason to say such things about my game here. I've put in a very good civvie game with lots of effort. I just happened to be wrong about two players. Sorry I don't have the benefit of knowing who everyone is I can only go by what I do know as best as I can.
I meant the parts where you brought the lynch to a tie just for the sake of amusement, or what you're doing now, which is saying you know I'm good one minute, and then saying you're sure I'm bad the next. I specifically said I wasn't talking about the mistakes because we've all made some.

linki: See? This is what I mean. I ask you a serious question, and you insist on being sarcastic. If you wanted the civvies to win, you would really try to help at this stage. Unless you had a win condition that you can't fulfil or something. If you're not bad, it would still be nice of you to not try to sabotage things for us.
FZ I was not being sarcastic. I was seriously suggesting that you literally meditate on the exact question you asked me because perhaps you will find the answer.

You asked me a question that I cannot answer.

Lynching me tomorrow would most certainly cost the civilians the game. Ergo I am going to continue to defend myself from things that I really cannot to any great effect.

I defended Wilgy because I thought LC was right about him, he wasn't.

I defended Motel Room because I thought I was right about him, I wasn't.

I can see arguments for and against every player left. All the scenarios I thought were possible have been proven wrong. Therefore every possible scenario is on the table.

If you think I would hard defend scum teammates the way I defended Motel Room and Wilgy, you are saying that MacDougall is simple. Do I seem simple?

My greatest misfortune is that I appear to have exclusively found the scum from one time while the other pulled the wool over my eyes entirely, possibly intentionally.

FZ made out like she wanted to hear me out but she didn't even think twice when I asked her to consider the answer to the question here. She just kept peddling the misinformation that I was being "crazy" or whatever. Says I am being sarcastic when I am not.

MacDougall wrote:If it weren't me in the situation, I would say that it's just as likely that those that voted for Motel Room and/or Wilgy on days that their lynches didn't occur when they should have, whose votes appeared haphazard, are more likely to be scum than the person who unwittingly was hard defending a revealed scum in the thread. The fact that Motel Room voted for Wilgy himself lends credence to the fact that their team had history of voting for one another. It is possible they were doing it continuously throughout the game. But as a defense it's too wifom so I will leave that unsaid. Oh wait I accidentally hit submit.

Ricochet wrote:Mac, do you have anything to share on why bea might know what your role is?

The bea you called scum a day ago, y'know?

LC might have told her. He did know. Otherwise no idea.

Is anyone else actually here or would I be wasting my breath trying to defend myself?

Well I'm at work this morning and I don't think anyone who is around can help me so whatever.

Legacy = Matt + FZ are the scum

If by some chance they fail to kill again, don't hestitate.

If not, well played you guys deserve the win as ricochet insinuated.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Metalmarsh isn't really going to give a toss who he wins with. Sorsha appears to have made her mind up. FZ and Matt are probably the bad guys. I'd say this one is lost after this mislynch.

MM, I am counting on you to not pull a shtick here and help the baddies. Do you buy any or Mac's defense? If not, why not?
No I don't. He's again reinforcing that "Metalmarsh doesn't care who wins" between civs and mafia, when that's not true.

I don't think you don't care, I just don't think if it really comes down to challenging the status quo you will do much. Why bother?

FZ. wrote:And since I know I'm not bad, the whole tie me to Matt thing is a load of crap as well.

For someone who is criticising my efforts, you would expect there to be analysis of potential player combinations, analysis of posts days past pinning me as bad, analysis of who I am scum with because of past actions coming from said person if good ... something more than this push button mislynch that's being peddled.

Instead let's take the obvious option as quick as possible and watch as the "civ friendly independent" and co just follow it without thinking. At least bea has the common sense to dispute it.

FZ you say you are trying really hard but you aren't even looking past your nose. Your vote is on me based entirely by unfortunate circumstances that occurred in the last day or two and ignoring the fact that I put in serious effort for the entirety of the game less a middle section when I was extremely busy. I would say that I put in more effort this game than anyone except Ricochet.

I'm sick of having arguments without people about the quality of their "effort". Can you please stop using that as a leg to stand on, it's not fair.

FZ. wrote:
MacDougall wrote:If you are a civ anyway. If you aren't then there's point me trying to convince you. You seem to have made your mind up at about the same time Matt did *cough cough*.
That's bull. There are just not many options here.
Bea is not willing to share her thoughts on your role, and you're not really doing much to change my mind. There's just so much I'm willing to give up for the game. I'm tired. I want sleep. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. But seriously, you gave no reason for your wacky behaviour this day and night phase, and I'm sick of trying when you're really not.

I am trying very hard FZ. You're doing that thing again.

Metalmarsh isn't really going to give a toss who he wins with. Sorsha appears to have made her mind up. FZ and Matt are probably the bad guys. I'd say this one is lost after this mislynch.

Assuming the kill goes through tonight that's 2 mafia, 1 civ, 1 independent left (assuming they don't kill Metalmarsh). They'll probably kill Sorsha. All signs point to them having some vote shenanigan mechanics. Even if they don't they'll vote bea together and Metalmarsh has no reason to really rock the boat and will probably just go with it since he's got bea and I at the bottom.

If you are a civ anyway. If you aren't then there's point me trying to convince you. You seem to have made your mind up at about the same time Matt did *cough cough*.

FZ. wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
FZ. wrote:Okay, I'm going to bed. If anyone has a reason for me to change my vote, speak now or forever hold your peace.
I do.
You're supposed to give me the reason...try to make it a good one, okay?

If you lynch me you'll lose the game.

FZ. wrote:Okay, I'm going to bed. If anyone has a reason for me to change my vote, speak now or forever hold your peace.

I do.

I have nothing to say. I am taking a vow of silence. I am not posting for the rest of the day.

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