The Syndicate

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote: If it weren't for my own (often frustrating) previous experience with ika in a couple other games, I would be thinking what you're thinking about him. But as it is, yeah, he proudly disregards logic when he is town. For instance, him thinking that you are mafia for suspecting him for doing things that he himself would find suspicious if it were anyone but him or Silver. I've learned to accept his thought processes and go with the flow.

That's great and all, but I'm a major candidate to be lynched today because of it.

Right, and I totally understand your frustration because I've been a major lynch candidate before because of ika as well. I know I'm the last one with a right to say this, but we need to decide on someone to lynch that isn't me or you.

No kidding.

Sloonei is the only player with 2 votes. Everyone else has 1 or 0. Ehhhhh.

I'm going to ISO Sloonei and Long Con. I don't want to baddie read them out of thin air but I haven't seen a lot of content from them and I would really like to contribute in changing the direction that this day is going.

for the sake of future daaaaaaaayyyehhehhaaaaaaaehhehhaaaays

Silverwolf wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:

ika wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Look, I'm not trying to anger either of you. I respect and like you both. You're both very swell people. I know you haven't used it directly, but it inevitably affects the way you both play the game, and it can victimize players who dare question either of you or the meta reads that you display for each other. I'm being mafia read because Silverwolf doesn't like the case I made on you.

and there have been a multitude of games where silver called out scumm based on that reaosn alone. it it doesnt even haev to be on me, when she pings someone based on what looks like shit reaosns its mostly cus its right.

so many people have made weak acusatiosn on her/me other and she called peopleout on that and loh and behold its sucm

Let me elaborate. I have caught scum before who try to mislynch me as town based on similar bad reasoning that MP used on ika.

This was a huge ping to me.

I want to know why Golden has such an issue with this and calls in tunneling when he tunneled the shit out of me most of the game.

Again, he's making me very suspicious along with MP for his lack of consistency here.

Lack of consistency? Elaborate.

Well, he's apparently frustrated with me for tunneling you but has tunneled me most of the game.

That's hypocrisy, not lack of consistency. And even then I'm not sure I agree that it's even hypocrisy.

I didn't mean MP's post above, but yeah word to that too.

Word.

sig wrote: linki: What does QFT mean?

Quoted for truth.

linki - DAMN IT

Golden wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:OMG-MP's discrediting of me and my case and deliberately misinterpreting it makes me want to keep my vote where it is.

Time to accuse me of tunneling Golden.

You definitely haven't tunneled me.

I think there's meant to be a comma after the word "tunneling".

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:Like, it really pisses me off that people are willing to lay down there life for someone else. There is no way to know someone's alignment that certainly and if MP turns out to be scum, that's just crazy.

ika is town because he accused you of gamethrowing?

Makes no sense. I mean, I'm just gonna throw up my hands and let you die at this point if this is how you are gonna play.

This is how I always play. The reason I'm willing to lay down my life is because I'm not contributing that much and MP is, and unlike some people, I do think that baddies with a lot of content can be helpful to town after their flip by revealing many teammate connections via process of elimination. And that's accounting for the small chance that MP is in fact bad, so no, it's not crazy in the slightest. If MP is good, I'm laying down my WIFOM-y not-a-lot-of-readsy life so he can go on and hopefully convince you tunnelers that he isn't bad.

ika's town because he's openly and proudly disregarding logic for all of the points and observations that he has made. In other words, I think he's town for essentially the same reason why MP thinks he is mafia.

Well, apparently, I'm mafia for ever considering that ika could be mafia for any of those things, so what do I know?

If it weren't for my own (often frustrating) previous experience with ika in a couple other games, I would be thinking what you're thinking about him. But as it is, yeah, he proudly disregards logic when he is town. For instance, him thinking that you are mafia for suspecting him for doing things that he himself would find suspicious if it were anyone but him or Silver. I've learned to accept his thought processes and go with the flow.

That's great and all, but I'm a major candidate to be lynched today because of it.

Right, and I totally understand your frustration because I've been a major lynch candidate before because of ika as well. I know I'm the last one with a right to say this, but we need to decide on someone to lynch that isn't me or you.

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I'm town and I'd like to keep playing, but keeping MP alive takes the top priority right now.

VOTE A2THEZEBRA

I appreciate the confidence and that someone actually seems content in helping avoid a mislynch, but let's try and redirect this towards another individual. I'm town reading you enough to not want you lynched either.

Have you considered the possibility she is mafia goon and wants to take you out behind her tomorrow.

Ooooh that's a clever idea. I should try it sometime.

Lol. Nah, sigs right. It's a stupid idea. Oh well, I was just thinking through scenarios.

Exactly, it is a stupid idea. Therefore, no one would see it coming!

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I'm supposed to give excuses for being a lower poster, and I'm supposed to avoid criticism of Frog's plan even though I think it's disastrous at best. So basically what you're asking me to do to earn your non-vote is to be disingenuous.

I asked you to work harder to give reads. You've given five town reads, sure, but I don't know why you've given them. I didn't ask you to do either of these two things above.

I never work hard for reads. I observe and report what I've observed. In this game I simply haven't observed that much conclusive material. Why are you suspicious of me if not for failing to meet your standards rather than mine? Even in the post where you voted for me you gave no elaboration as to why I'm suspicious to you. You haven't been clear about it at all and what you have said is extremely weak reasoning if I understand it right.

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I'm town and I'd like to keep playing, but keeping MP alive takes the top priority right now.

VOTE A2THEZEBRA

I appreciate the confidence and that someone actually seems content in helping avoid a mislynch, but let's try and redirect this towards another individual. I'm town reading you enough to not want you lynched either.

Have you considered the possibility she is mafia goon and wants to take you out behind her tomorrow.

Ooooh that's a clever idea. I should try it sometime.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:Like, it really pisses me off that people are willing to lay down there life for someone else. There is no way to know someone's alignment that certainly and if MP turns out to be scum, that's just crazy.

ika is town because he accused you of gamethrowing?

Makes no sense. I mean, I'm just gonna throw up my hands and let you die at this point if this is how you are gonna play.

This is how I always play. The reason I'm willing to lay down my life is because I'm not contributing that much and MP is, and unlike some people, I do think that baddies with a lot of content can be helpful to town after their flip by revealing many teammate connections via process of elimination. And that's accounting for the small chance that MP is in fact bad, so no, it's not crazy in the slightest. If MP is good, I'm laying down my WIFOM-y not-a-lot-of-readsy life so he can go on and hopefully convince you tunnelers that he isn't bad.

ika's town because he's openly and proudly disregarding logic for all of the points and observations that he has made. In other words, I think he's town for essentially the same reason why MP thinks he is mafia.

Well, apparently, I'm mafia for ever considering that ika could be mafia for any of those things, so what do I know?

If it weren't for my own (often frustrating) previous experience with ika in a couple other games, I would be thinking what you're thinking about him. But as it is, yeah, he proudly disregards logic when he is town. For instance, him thinking that you are mafia for suspecting him for doing things that he himself would find suspicious if it were anyone but him or Silver. I've learned to accept his thought processes and go with the flow.

sig wrote:Okay well, this makes me not want to lynch Zebra, (I also looked over the spirit away game again and did a quick ISO) so that plus her voting to save MP has shaken my read. We are also seeing an increase in her activity which I like.

There is a world she is mafia with MP and is voting for herself to save a scum buddy, however this makes no sense. Zebra is mafia flips scum, we lynch MP tomorrow. There is no reason for this as mafia. In theory it could be a mind game, but that is a big gambit and I doubt it is the case here. Let me think on things.

I see two votes for Sloonie is there a case on sloonie?

I love gambits. Ask Sloonei where I kept a game which I had already won as scum going another day just to see the chaos. If you're going to stop suspecting me all of a sudden, fear that I wouldn't attempt an enormous gambit is not a good reason, because I would totally attempt that. Just sayin'.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I explained my reasoning for self-voting and I'm not going to again, take it or leave it. If you do think I'm "game-throwing" by doing this, maybe you should decide on a leading wagon besides me or MP. I won't hold my breath for that though. Gotta love the reasoning behind MP being bad though...he made a bad case. He made a bad case, in ika's opinion. So he's a baddie, in ika's opinion. This is comedic gold.

You have to have at least one player you didn't list that you'd feel comfortable redirecting votes to, other than you and me. Who is it?

If I had at least one, why wouldn't I have mentioned them at the time I was asked for reads? I don't have a single one at this point.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I don't have any baddie reads at this time, and I don't want to bullshit some just to look good. I do have some strong civilian reads though, and they are Frog, ika, Marco, MP (of course), and Zexy.

linki - lol, and ladies and gentlemen this is why ika is town.

Explain the Frog read to me if you can. The Zexy one as well. Thanks.

The reason I was holding off on saying that Frog was suspicious when I was criticizing his proposed method of a Day 1 lynch (I forgot who it was that said I was suspicious for being waffly on him at the time) was because I was having trouble deciding whether his my-way-or-the-highway approach was mafia-motivated town manipulation or just arrogance, and I've come to conclude that it is simply arrogance. That's no slight by the way, I am often very arrogant myself and I believe arrogance is often a virtue. Arrogance alone has gotten me out of a bad place more than once, but I digress. I simply feel that Frog has confidence in his plan, and even though it's a plan I heavily disagree with, it seems genuinely town-motivated to me.

As for Zexy, I feel that Zexy is similar to Marco in that they seem to be a newcomer who's putting in an honest effort to analyze other players' content and not be easily swayed by one argument over another. Both Zexy and Marco seem to be thinking for themselves and looking at things objectively, and for that I have a strong town read for both of them, given that I see no hidden baddie-motivated agenda behind that effort.

Silverwolf wrote:I disagree with self sacrificing yourself for someone. I'd never do that for anyone, not even ika.

For the record, I would do this for just about anyone in a game where they are heavily contributing, seem very much town to me, and I am not contributing that much in addition to my mislynch being pretty inevitable by the look of things.

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I get some of the new people being suspicious of me, but sig and Golden? You two should know better.

Apparently everyone I suspect in this game 'I should know better', and then most of them will no u me too.

Why should I know better? I want decent reads from you, you aren't giving them.

I don't have them, and unlike when I'm bad I'm not going to fake having them just to please everyone into not suspecting me.

I gave you five civvie reads, that's all I have. You should know better because your reasons for suspecting me are based on things that you've seen me do before as town more than once.

I've seen you do lots of things as town and as mafia. If there is one thing I've learned from you, it's that you are malleable and adaptable, and you can shift your meta. That you want me to take your own view of your own meta does nothing for me.

Every person I've suspected today has either told me I should know better, or no ued me, except zexy. When silverwolf told me it I told her not to emotionally bully me. I'll say the same to you. You don't get to describe my understanding of your meta, and I won't be guilted into backing off you because you say 'I should know better'.

If you want me not to vote you, you have to earn it.

See the thing is though, I'm not desiring that you take my own view of my meta, I want you to take a look at your view of my meta. My meta, not yours. I'm not trying to guilt you so don't try to guilt me by saying that I'm emotionally bullying you when I'm not. I'm voicing my honest opinion that I think you should know better, and I'm sorry if that opinion hurts you in any way to any degree.

Your problem with asking me to earn your non-vote is that based on the post that I pointed out recently where you explain your suspicion of me, earning my non-vote from you means doing what you would do in my situation rather than what I would do in my situation. I'm supposed to give excuses for being a lower poster, and I'm supposed to avoid criticism of Frog's plan even though I think it's disastrous at best. So basically what you're asking me to do to earn your non-vote is to be disingenuous. Give excuses where there are none and keep my mouth shut when I've got things to say. Your request to earn your non-vote is unreasonable and out of the question if that's the only way I can achieve it.

Silverwolf wrote:Like, it really pisses me off that people are willing to lay down there life for someone else. There is no way to know someone's alignment that certainly and if MP turns out to be scum, that's just crazy.

ika is town because he accused you of gamethrowing?

Makes no sense. I mean, I'm just gonna throw up my hands and let you die at this point if this is how you are gonna play.

This is how I always play. The reason I'm willing to lay down my life is because I'm not contributing that much and MP is, and unlike some people, I do think that baddies with a lot of content can be helpful to town after their flip by revealing many teammate connections via process of elimination. And that's accounting for the small chance that MP is in fact bad, so no, it's not crazy in the slightest. If MP is good, I'm laying down my WIFOM-y not-a-lot-of-readsy life so he can go on and hopefully convince you tunnelers that he isn't bad.

ika's town because he's openly and proudly disregarding logic for all of the points and observations that he has made. In other words, I think he's town for essentially the same reason why MP thinks he is mafia.

As I understand it Golden, this is one of two posts where you provide reasons for suspecting me, an earlier one being where you mention that I'm not usually a lower poster, which isn't true given that I have no "usually" when it comes to post quantity (and especially quality).

Golden wrote:

sig wrote:Zebra popped in yet didn't post. I'm really starting to feel this Zebra vote.


@Golden what do you think of Zebra and Matt?

Matt is definitely not playing this game. If he was he would be tunnelling on me.

Not a fan of zebra this game. She may well be truthful in her feeling on the low poster idea, but if I were town I'd be much more inclined to come in and explain why I've been a low poster - not to criticise the entire concept. I think in some ways Frog is right that perhaps the most useful outcome of his idea is to look at who opposes it a little too hard.

I don't like how you say that I may well be truthful in my protest of the low poster idea (which if you've paid attention to me in any game ever you'll know that I've always despised going after low posters and have taken every opportunity I've seen to criticize any form of that particular method) but then go on to say that if you were town you would give excuses, and not criticize the concept of going after lower posters. Why are you expecting me to meet the standards of what you would do? There is no explanation as to why I'm a lower poster again and it's not out of character for me to criticize the concept when I have before, often just as passionately, several times. I'm really shocked that you think Frog is right in thinking that anyone who opposes this idea too hard could be bad. I have always opposed going after lower posters, especially on Day 1 lynches. This is why you should know better.

Silverwolf wrote:I don't understand the self vote and die rather than play the game.

What if MP is scum? ika is right, it's game throwing.

And frustrating.

I've explained it. If you don't understand my explanation then I can't help you.

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I get some of the new people being suspicious of me, but sig and Golden? You two should know better.

Apparently everyone I suspect in this game 'I should know better', and then most of them will no u me too.

Why should I know better? I want decent reads from you, you aren't giving them.

I don't have them, and unlike when I'm bad I'm not going to fake having them just to please everyone into not suspecting me.

I gave you five civvie reads, that's all I have. You should know better because your reasons for suspecting me are based on things that you've seen me do before as town more than once.

Silverwolf wrote:

Golden wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:For some reason I feel like Golden and MP are scumbuddies.

You say this over and over and it makes me go back to suspecting you a little. Should I suspect you and ika are scum buddies because you defend each other? Or should I recognise that you know each others meta and listen to you when you talk about each other?

You've chosen not to acknowledge any of the things I've said when you've referenced my defense of MP.

Right, I think MP could be scum. I do not like associatives without a scum flip this early but it seems really over the top-your defense of him. All I am doing with ika is explaining his meta and playstyle and not liking MP's push on him for being away.

If you are going to concentrate on me all game, let me know now so I can stock up on extra caffeine to keep my energy up as you are draining me like crazy. LOL

I obviously disagree with MP's baddie read of ika but I don't think it's fabricated in the least, and I also think that you and ika are misrepresenting MP by claiming that his suspicion of ika comes primarily from him being away. That's blatantly untrue.

I explained my reasoning for self-voting and I'm not going to again, take it or leave it. If you do think I'm "game-throwing" by doing this, maybe you should decide on a leading wagon besides me or MP. I won't hold my breath for that though. Gotta love the reasoning behind MP being bad though...he made a bad case. He made a bad case, in ika's opinion. So he's a baddie, in ika's opinion. This is comedic gold.

I don't have any baddie reads at this time, and I don't want to bullshit some just to look good. I do have some strong civilian reads though, and they are Frog, ika, Marco, MP (of course), and Zexy.

linki - lol, and ladies and gentlemen this is why ika is town.

Silverwolf wrote:zebra-MP is scum, that's a huge mistake

Is self voting even allowed?

Oh he's scum? Why didn't you say so before, I guess I'll just go from defending him with my life to voting for his death.

WHY is he scum?

linki - Oh okay, IF he is scum. I'm not trying to tell you anything by self-voting, I'm trying to get lynched so MP won't be, at least not today.

Bottom line, MP is civ, and he's making enormous contributions to the civ cause. I'm more than willing to lay down my life to prolong his given that my mislynch is inevitable anyway.

Sloonei's understandable after the Undertale game, and not to mention getting it right by suspecting me when I was bad with bea.

I get some of the new people being suspicious of me, but sig and Golden? You two should know better.

I'm town and I'd like to keep playing, but keeping MP alive takes the top priority right now.

VOTE A2THEZEBRA

Oh and one last thing, I'd just like to make a comment about how all the newcomers are doing an outstanding job with the game so far, regardless of alignment. You all should fit in nicely here.

Now that I've CTRL-F'd my name and responded to (I think) everything, I'm going back to sleep.

And to answer your concern Marco, I'm not entirely sold on a baddie read of Frog yet, because this approach could just be his style and therefore I could be suspecting him for something irrelevant to his alignment. I do however think that in general going after lurkers is a common baddie tactic, and I also think that the way he's gone about it by denying that it's a policy lynch is very alarming.

Marco wrote:Looks to me like she's either very passionate against policy lynches on low posters or she's trying to soft-defend low posters by discouraging a push on them.

It's both. I take no shame in soft(?) defending the lower posters, if for no other reason that I feel like they get taken advantage of by manipulative baddies almost every game. I'm not ruling out the possibility that any of them are bad, but I am ruling out the possibility that they are bad simply for not posting a lot of content.

Silverwolf wrote: Zebra: Null, I can never read properly here, don't agree with going after lurkers as a policy lynch

You do realize...

Not to mention that I've gone after lower posters as a baddie while being extremely loud and obnoxious myself. I've totally used the myth that lower posters are more likely to be baddies than higher posters to my advantage, almost every single time I've been bad in this game. Even after people got used to that being my meta both here and on RYM, it would still work.

"Zebra can't be a baddie even though she did this suspicious thing and that suspicious thing...she's posting so much! I say we lynch one of the lurkers!"

-A few hours later-

"Ah shit, RIP So-and-so. I was so convinced, too. Well, what other lurker could we lynch tomorrow?"

The lesson is never learned.

If you're fine with a policy lynch, okay, whatever, but advocating a policy lynch while denying that it's a policy lynch is highly suspicious to me. Especially when that policy lynch is based on going after the lurkers. I have seen baddies use lurker policy lynches time and time again to pick off the civilian lower posters while cruising their way to endgame by being very opinionated and very vocal, and almost every time I've seen that they have always advocated lynching lurkers while shying away from the term "policy lynch" as much as possible.

I appreciate the effort and analysis Frog, but my personal opinion on that tactic - if it is genuine - is fuck that noise.

Okay, now I have a total of 11 posts. I am no longer in the bottom four.

...And yet I am just as likely to be bad as I was before I started posting.

Frog can deny it all he wants, but the methods he's using to base his vote are absolutely advocating a policy lynch.

G.

F.

E.

This isn't spam by the way because I'm making a crucial point with these posts.

D.

C.

B.

A.

That's his meta, it's null. Same with anything I do that seems peculiar or suspicious.

DrWilgy wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:What's good? I ate some brownies last night that still haven't completely worn off.

My phone died ;__;

You have any leftovers? I could use some.

Nope, there were fourteen to start with and between four people sharing them I ate five. None remain.

What's good? I ate some brownies last night that still haven't completely worn off.