The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Additionally, if "scum is passive" then I'm terrible when I'm Mafia. If you really believe that DDL, then you would be eager to lynch someone who hadn't posted at all at that point (like me or Eloh), but you went for Snow Dog. Why?

They are. It's the basic nature of the game. Multi-faction games kind of damp that, but generally, mafias are passive.

The game thread is about finding scum. It's what everyone is either doing, or pretending to be doing. The side that is not doing it is the passive one.

Mafias can do things (like manipulate players to act their way and such), but most of them are just smokescreen so civs don't realize they are not actually doing jack shit. Mafias want the day to end already so they can kill players faster and get to LyLo.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also when I say "passive", it's not about number of posts. A player can make 100 posts a day and still not do anything. The scariest baddies are the ones who can do exactly that and still be hard to read, imo.

So, really, "passive baddies" equals people whose cases DDL doesn't agree with?

This just feels very subjective, and not warranting grand statements like calling it the "basic nature of the game."

DDL, when you are bad, do you not try to play as closely to your civ game as possible? Thinking that "aggressive" = civ, and "passive" = scum, wouldn't you try to be as aggressive as possible regardless of alignment?

It feels like a system where you'll always be townread, regardless of actual alignment.

The first statement is putting things in my mouth. I didn't say that.

My baddie game is a work in progress since I'm usually pretty terrible at it and I've only recently played my first game where I lived until the end as bad. So I can't really say much about how I play as baddie, I change it every game. What I can say is, if someone is bad, they will try to look like they are scumhunting, but other than those games with two or more factions, baddies can't scumhunt. So they have to pretend they are doing it. Since that's the number one thing the game thread is for, baddies are passive in the game thread by nature. They have to pretend they are doing the one thing everyone is doing.

And yes, my opinion are subjective. Problem? I refuse to change them because some people think having them makes me a baddie.

You underestimate good mafia. When I'm bad, I can do nothing and still make you think I'm your only hope.

Golden wrote:I haven't specifically noticed not getting linki but I have noticed that I 'missed' reading some posts so that could explain why.

I went looking through setting to see if you could have turned it off accidentally. Maybe it's a thread setting.

sprityo wrote:-what about DXL makes him untrustworthy. Is it his playstyle, or something he's said or done thus far?
-I personally don't trust cross analysis of past games since a new game is opportunity for change every single time. Habits are there sure, but nothing can stop a person from changing
-I'm following what you're saying, and I suppose that's about the extent that you can go outside of role claiming day 0.

sprityo wrote:

Quin wrote:

sprityo wrote:What I'm getting at is the situation isn't this huge conflict. It's a statement, a joke, and it's only purpose as of now is generating content that we can't even use, it's more so being used to setup boundaries/groups of people for whatever reason

Why do you think we can't use it? I've taken quite a lot out of the discussion so far.

What have you taken away, since I just see it as filler

sprityo wrote:What I'm getting at is the situation isn't this huge conflict. It's a statement, a joke, and it's only purpose as of now is generating content that we can't even use, it's more so being used to setup boundaries/groups of people for whatever reason

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:Quin, I expect my opening will be a bit lower volume than Monkey Island due to vacation and preparing for vacation - hence the whole "I shouldn't join but I love you guys too much to do anything else" thing.

That's all good. I wasn't calling you suspicious for it or anything, it was just an observation I felt needed to be made.

I'm utterly heartbroken that you were scum last game, I thought we were fated to be brothers

Nachomamma8 wrote:Quin, I expect my opening will be a bit lower volume than Monkey Island due to vacation and preparing for vacation - hence the whole "I shouldn't join but I love you guys too much to do anything else" thing.

Golden wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Town's cause is to lynch scum.
Scum's cause is not to lynch scum.

Town is active. Scum is passive. Scum plays by stalling and not actually doing things. If someone is not trying to scum, they are more likely to be bad. Because that's the bread and butter of bads.

If I am bad in a game with two baddie teams, I'll be scum-hunting, not stalling.

Why do you think scum would not be genuinely scum-hunting when they have a whole team out there to find?

I admit I was kind of ignoring the specifics of this game, and just talking about general mafia theory to explain why SD not hunting baddies is not a good sign for him.

At that time, though, SD had not 'not hunted baddies'.

All he happened to have done was claimed he didn't read his role. At that point, I'm not sure I'd even posted at all. Isn't it a bit soon to say someone wasn't hunting baddies? And who is to even say that 'not reading his role' would mean he wouldn't hunt baddies, even if he was unaware of his win condition?

What I find odd in the whole thing is how 'gospel' some people seemed to take his statement. Day zeroes are full of banter early. If I saw a statement like that from someone I didn't know very well, my first point of call would be to verify whether or not there was any reason for the statement - for example, start by asking SD questions (and asking anyone else if they are familiar than Snow Dog) rather than immediately throwing him in the drink...

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also the Nacho dude looks like he is blending. I recall him commenting on a lot of subjects but never got too involved.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Quin wrote:Snow Dog isn't doing it.

Doesn't matter. You are still attacking the merit of doing what SD was saying he was doing, even though you were defending it a couple pages prior. What changed?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Quin wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Quin wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I could get behind splitting the difference with alignment only flips. While no janitoring is more comfortable to me, I'm big on trying new things.

Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.

This seems like a terrible idea.

If you're being truthful and you're town, this only hurts your performance.

If you're being truthful and you're scum, maybe you don't accidentally give yourself away with a scumtell.

You could also be scum and lying, using this as a shield. "Anything scummy I say can't actually be scummy cause I don't even know my alignment."

I'm with the marmot. You seem like a great first lynch.

DrWilgy did the exact same thing in Monkey Island, so I'm taking Snow Dog's post as a jokey reference to that. On no planet is there a person who's seriously played a game where they haven't checked their role. If they're bad then it's a massive kick in the teeth to his/her teammates. Same to any alignment, really.

I find this all to be reasonable.

However, your assertion that nobody would ever do this for realzies stands in stark contrast to Zebra claiming that not reading one's role pm can be a useful for cutting off pressure and causing a townie to not choke, an assertion I find to be quite silly.

Putting SD back on mostly neutral terms unless Zebra ends up flipping mafia.

Now, maybe Zebra has been playing mafia in Opposite Land where lying as a townie to the point where several players consider a policy lynch on you is good strategy but lying as scum is simply not done. I'll reserve full judgement of if this is scummy behavior or just really jarring culture clash until later. It's only D0 after all.

Generally, though, when I see what I consider to be an illogical defense of another player, I assume reasons other than pure logic are at work.

Scotty wrote:

Quin wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:You're watching a guy throw pretzels in the water and a) assuming he's fishing and b) assuming that throwing pretzels in the water will lead to catching fish.

I'm watching the same guy and saying he's not contributing to solving our food shortage.

This guy is gonna give Scotty a run for his money in the metaphor department.

Nah, my job security is airtight. He can do the metaphors. I'll handle the shitty similes. (And the alliterations, aight?) i know that was assonance, you ass

Deal.

@Epi

Hi, there.

I think zebra should try it out for herself next time and see where that gets her. I just think it's pointless and hurts your team in a whole lot of ways.

Weren't you defending SD for doing it a couple pages ago?

Golden wrote:Quin's been pantsed!

I shall never look at him with side-eye the same way again. But at least I'm glad that he's going to Disneyland.

I'm totally phoning this in, but I haven't read much yet. I intend to today, so apologies in advance for me commenting on things that may have already passed others by.

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Zebra, Faraday, Long Con, Snow Dog, and you. I think those are the only ones in that game that were here discussing the subject. I will table my thoughts on Snow Dog and try to give him a fresh start in my book. I do seriously hate I wasted all that time on it though. I wasn't even going to read all those pages. I was just going to skim through as Day 0 is usually just fluff. But then it seemed important and noteworthy, so I read and commented, read and commented. Waste.

Where was Faraday discussing this?

Derp.

Was he discussing it in B T S C???????????????

Long Con wrote:

Quin wrote:I think there's a setting where you can uncheck everything so that nothing (or the things you dont want) don't get emailed to you as they happen.

Thank you for giving me nightmares with that sentence.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Epi

You never said Snow Dog was good, true.

What you said was "I won't be voting for him."

Well, for what it's worth, I won't be voting for you Day 1 either, Jack. It has nothing to do with your alignment (or his).

Oh yeah? Can't figure out how to use the polls either, then?

I'm sure I'm quite capable of using the polls. Have you encountered a technical issue I should be aware of?

Actually....

Is there a way to both "subscribe" to threads so that I can click a list of all my subscribed threads but also not get emails any time anyone says anything in said threads? My mailbox is just blowing up, today.

Long Con wrote:

Quin wrote:To add onto your role analysis, LC - Klaus's role doesn't mention any restrictions as to when he can use his role. Just how many times he can use it. Unless he's a risk taker, I'd recommend that he figure out what he wants to do early so as to not waste an opportunity.

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Four pages all about Snow Dog and Long Con's bad directions.

Snow Dog must feel special.

I won't be voting him Day 1.

Oh yeah?

What caused you to determine SD is town or rather, definitely not someone you could see yourself lynching? Do you see a specific better option at this point?

Or did you merely mean you wouldn't lynch him over that one post?

I can take Eloh seriously. Shame you can't.

I have more experience with Snow Dog. I understand his Welsh sense of humor (humour?). I immediately gathered the context of his post when I read his post because I was in Monkey Island being eaten by cannibals.

I never said Snow Dog was good. I'm saying that the response Snow Dog was looking for to his first post was "Ha ha, good times, mate." Instead some of you decided to start a row over it. So there's that.

As for Eloh, she doesn't know why a vanilla civilian would lie about having a power role.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Quin wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I could get behind splitting the difference with alignment only flips. While no janitoring is more comfortable to me, I'm big on trying new things.

Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.

This seems like a terrible idea.

If you're being truthful and you're town, this only hurts your performance.

If you're being truthful and you're scum, maybe you don't accidentally give yourself away with a scumtell.

You could also be scum and lying, using this as a shield. "Anything scummy I say can't actually be scummy cause I don't even know my alignment."

I'm with the marmot. You seem like a great first lynch.

DrWilgy did the exact same thing in Monkey Island, so I'm taking Snow Dog's post as a jokey reference to that. On no planet is there a person who's seriously played a game where they haven't checked their role. If they're bad then it's a massive kick in the teeth to his/her teammates. Same to any alignment, really.

I find this all to be reasonable.

However, your assertion that nobody would ever do this for realzies stands in stark contrast to Zebra claiming that not reading one's role pm can be a useful for cutting off pressure and causing a townie to not choke, an assertion I find to be quite silly.

Putting SD back on mostly neutral terms unless Zebra ends up flipping mafia.

Now, maybe Zebra has been playing mafia in Opposite Land where lying as a townie to the point where several players consider a policy lynch on you is good strategy but lying as scum is simply not done. I'll reserve full judgement of if this is scummy behavior or just really jarring culture clash until later. It's only D0 after all.

Generally, though, when I see what I consider to be an illogical defense of another player, I assume reasons other than pure logic are at work.

Scotty wrote:

Quin wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:You're watching a guy throw pretzels in the water and a) assuming he's fishing and b) assuming that throwing pretzels in the water will lead to catching fish.

I'm watching the same guy and saying he's not contributing to solving our food shortage.

This guy is gonna give Scotty a run for his money in the metaphor department.

Nah, my job security is airtight. He can do the metaphors. I'll handle the shitty similes. (And the alliterations, aight?) i know that was assonance, you ass

Deal.

@Epi

Hi, there.

Snow Dog wrote:First of all..

a2thezebra wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.

In this game, I will defend Snow Dog to the death.

Second....Wow! My claim to have not read my role certainly has stirred up things around here. My little homage to Dr Wilgey's claim in Monley Island has sparked some lively debate. So what happens now? If I claim I was joking can you believe that? Am I forever tarnished?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:You're watching a guy throw pretzels in the water and a) assuming he's fishing and b) assuming that throwing pretzels in the water will lead to catching fish.

I'm watching the same guy and saying he's not contributing to solving our food shortage.

Snow Dog wrote:What is vigging?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Snow Dog has no alignment. All attempts to read him are pointless. There is no way to call him a civ or bad, because he has no winning condition. He has no intention to win for either side. He is not playing the game.

Why should he be kept alive?

Every lynch is a policy lynch. We take down people who don't contribute to town's cause, for reasons we decide at the time. This guy is the least contributive a player can possibly be.

a2thezebra wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I'm okay with policy lynching Snow Dog.

Or rather, policy vigging him. A player who doesn't know their alignment is a waste of a lynch.

I strongly disapprove of this post with all due respect.

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey gang,

Sloonei and I are going to cooperatively serve as MoDs in this game. If you have any concerns at all or become frustrated, angry, or otherwise miffed, please shoot one of us or both of us a PM and we'll talk it through with you. I'm sure it'll be a great game and I look forward to following along.

Hello folks! I am indeed the other member of your RYM MoD Squad for this game. Ditto everything Jay just said. This is a great looking crew and I look forward to watching the game unfold.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I could get behind splitting the difference with alignment only flips. While no janitoring is more comfortable to me, I'm big on trying new things.

Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.

This seems like a terrible idea.

If you're being truthful and you're town, this only hurts your performance.

If you're being truthful and you're scum, maybe you don't accidentally give yourself away with a scumtell.

You could also be scum and lying, using this as a shield. "Anything scummy I say can't actually be scummy cause I don't even know my alignment."

I'm with the marmot. You seem like a great first lynch.

Glorfindel wrote:I've just had to endure a week of near heat-wave temperatures and as a consequence of my now oft-repeated threats to move to Tasmania to escape this intolerable Queensland heat, I'm voting south!

LoRab wrote:What is VIG and what is janitored?