The Syndicate

Golden wrote:I really wish I had a better idea of why people were vouching for sig. I'm relying on it, without understanding it. Yesterday's vote for gleam was, for me, just as much about not lynching sig because of the vouches (zebra and TH, but mostly zebra), as it was about gleam actually being lynched.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:\_(T:)_/

I think things are progressing well, and I'm the one with 3 votes

I mean, it's not perfect, but it's not too late to start pulling the threads through and getting some good lynches in.

Thats how I feel too, quin. I really do. It's not time for 'omg, worst civ performance ever, lets throw out baby with bathwater'.

Silverwolf wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Silverwolf and indi both stood out to me because they've both been around all the bandwagons. I think Silverwolf has voted for the person who was ultimately lynched every day. She is credited as starting the Fuzz wagon, but that, I think, could also be a chance to bus a teammate. The credibility that would come with it is great. My mind is not made up, but this is not something I'm willing to dismiss.

I imagine I'm not the only one on all the bandwagons. And even so, what does that prove? That I was right on Fuzz and wrong on the others. Much like a lot of other people this game. I don't blindly bus for no reason and there is no scum game out there from me where I call out a team mate for a bad vote and start pushing a CFD on them out of the blue and actually move my vote off another major wagon to lynch them. It just does not happen.

I am usually in the thick of things voting wise. That's just how I play. I don't try to hide my intentions. I also did not agree with the sig wagon or the quin wagon and tried to get the vote on Draconus and Soneji who I wanted pressured and who I suspect. I am much more suspicious of people hiding out this game like I've said repeatedly. I feel like the active people are all town and scum is hiding out. It would be nice if I could get others to agree but maybe they will now.

Just because gleam was town and I was wrong is not a good enough reason for you to change your townread on me you had up until this lynch. That would mean you have to change your townread on ika for moving over to the gleam wagon today. Why did you leave him out again? Or Scotty who also voted gleam today to see how it goes? And instead picked out myself and indiglo? It really doesn't make sense and I'd be very interested in seeing your eventual reasoning on this when you ISO.

Turnip Head wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Black Rock wrote:I still am a pro TH lynch. The one thing that has not changed my mind, is he has not said anything that he regularly says to me when he is a civ.

I'm ignoring you because, at the moment, I'm not sure I believe that you actually suspect me. And if you really do then fine. I'm civ and eventually you'll see that or you won't, I'm not sweating it.

That's fine TH, you trying to ignore it is what makes me suspect you more. As a civ, when I suspect you, you are more likely to tell me I'm wrong, you are civ and then you go ahead and try to get me lynched. I see none of that here. In fact I do believe, hold on I'll find it...

Well that strategy doesn't always work out. I am trying not to make a rash decision about you.

Black Rock wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Maybe lol. You know me so well.

I got this joke post. This was in response to me asking if he was worried I liked him too much. I almost dropped my suspicion until this post. This post bugs me, a lot.

I have to admit, I have questioned my suspicion of you this game. I did today. That's why I haven't pushed that hard, I just can't make it go away. Every time you make a decision, I think it's the wrong decision. That bull shit with the LC lynch reminded me of a more dastardly Turnip Head. I also feel like you usually have a better gut read on players, better than I ever can and you are (no offense because I love and respect you) suck this game. I know that can happen but with everything else it doesn't feel right. Then you put me in the middle of your rainbow list. Well close the book! Turnip head has gotten to day 4 without pegging me. If you are indeed civ, like you say, then why can't I see it?

Yeah, I know I suck this game. It happens. I don't have a fucking clue what's going on atm. But I don't think all my gut reads are wrong. I still think sig is civ, I think Quin is civ, those are unpopular opinions but it's what I think. You probably can't see that I'm civ because I've been wrong about a few things. If I could change that, I would. I hope I do.

My post above that you quoted was not a joke post. I was questioning you because, after the Fuzz lynch, you immediately said it changed your mind on me, and I thought you were giving me too much credit there. So I started pressing. And then you called me on the exact reason for why I was pressing you. And then you started suspecting me again :P

indiglo wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I am not sure how to feel about these bandwagons. I've never seen a game that's had two such dramatic swings at the end of days. I do not doubt that there are a few townies who are simply not afraid to change their votes, as I am in that boat myself, but I also can't shake that there's some nefariousness in these votes. Scotty, indiglo, and Silverwolf stand out to be me first.

I would first go with Scotty out of the 3. I know my role, and I have a strong townread on SW. (Obviously, my gut and pinger are fallible.) I understand taking heat for heading the charge, and am happy to answer questions or just be berated for it.

I really felt Gleam was scum. I know others agreed, so it's not like I was wayyy out in left field. Still feel bad about it though.



Linki with myself~ yay for multiple tabs!

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Quin wrote:

Scotty wrote:What do we think would be an ideal role the undercover cop would choose? I mean, it wouldn't be the traitor, surely?

Someone with BTSC. Maybe a lover.

Why? The BTSC partner would point the possibility out immediately.

Mm. But if that partner wasn't the best looking civ they would likely be lynched.

And them being lynched would immediately make it clear the person wasn't a seemer... I would think the seemer would want to stay hidden.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Quin wrote:

Scotty wrote:What do we think would be an ideal role the undercover cop would choose? I mean, it wouldn't be the traitor, surely?

Someone with BTSC. Maybe a lover.

Why? The BTSC partner would point the possibility out immediately.

Scotty wrote:What do we think would be an ideal role the undercover cop would choose? I mean, it wouldn't be the traitor, surely?

sig wrote:I think we should look at Day 1 and 2 and the people who pushed his wagon then, I'd bet we would see a scum among them.

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:What do you mean by 'cultural differences"? I'm fairly sure my opinion hadn't gone into that territory. Correct me if I'm wrong, by all means.

You said it. What did you mean?

sig wrote:

Nerolunar wrote:I think we should stay on the Sig lynch. You guys can always build a case on Gleam later, but right now Sig needs to go.

Nerolunar wrote:Are the cops at work here? Its rubbing me the wrong way that several votes are shifting now.

Do you really want the Sig discussion to continue for a another day?

These two posts are pingy. Keep on the Sig lynch don't even look for someone else who might be scum build their case later. Then the cops are at work? That would be the top posters who everyone thinks are civs? This seems like fear mongering to me. IF Gleam/Quin is mafia then so is Nero. My predictions have been off this game though. I've not posted much today for two reasons one I thought I was done and two I was worked up. After thinking about it my suspicion of DDL seems a little OMGUS. However, I still think Sloonie could be mafia. Golden is most likely a civ as is SVS.

So for Gleam I did defend him hard day 1, however he seemed to have faded out and flew under the radar I don't like that for Quin it is different. On the surface him giving me votes looks good. However, with the amount of vote changing he might not have suspected me of living. This could have easily been done to build civ credit. Not to mention keep me alive another day and occupy the thread. This and Nero saying we should focus on me today is odd. I don't know if the mafia would be so obvious and I might just be being paranoid, but Quin seemed to flip on his view of me quite quickly. I'll reread it, but he if I'm correct called for my lynch today? I'm unsure if both Nero/Quin are mafia, but I believe one is. Gleam is an unknown I wouldn't be opposed to his lynch today and would vote for him though I'd rather see Quin/Nero lynched.


linki: Okay true Golden, though before today he didn't really call for my lynch and the build your case on Gleam later post was off putting.

Silverwolf wrote:I get frustrated not being able to read players far more as town than as scum. I mean as scum, why would I care? I guess I could fake it but I usually don't bother with that. As town, it frustrates me to no end when someone has been in the game all along and is posting so little or saying so little with their posting that I can't figure out their alignment. I usually just want to lynch them and if they are scum, great. If they are bad town, they aren't being helpful anyway so meh. Sounds harsh but it's always been my style.

indiglo wrote:

Quin wrote:I just got up and I'm seeing all the gleam votes - what happened?

Well, I'll figure it out.

ISO my last few posts, if you're low on time. The case is in there. Then you can think about it as you catch up.

Epignosis wrote:I wanted to go over the Long Con voters yesterday, but I had other stuff to do.

Turnip Head (12), Silverwolf (13), sig (18), a2thezebra (19), Serge (23), Quin (25) 23%

Turnip Head first became suspicious of LC here and enthusiastically encouraged people to lynch him. I don't get the impression that that enthusiasm was phony.
In contrast, Silverwolf's vote was, for my tastes, weak and decidedly unenthusiastic.
a2z admitted to voting to save sig (and accused Silverwolf of being bad in the bargain).
Serge likes "emergency sig," whatever that is.
Quin admitted to actually saving sig, but the vote for LC was cast begrudgingly.

ika
9
Quin (5), Nerolunar (6), agleaminranks (11), Soneji (12), Serge (14), RadicalFuzz (16), Enrique (23), Long Con (28), sig (29) 31%

Only Quin and Serge from the earlier list voted to lynch ika Day 2.

As far as I can gather (some of the quote tags are messed up), Quin voted ika for what he later decided were cultural differences (a change facilitated by sig), and then voted ika again because ika was being arrogant and not giving Quin anything to work with. Correct me if I'm wrong in that assessment, but if that's the case, I don't know what to make of it.

Serge's post I'm going to quote rather than link:

Serge wrote:I like thellama73's in-depth post about why he thinks Luffy is a cop. I don't necessarily agree with it but that amount of perception doesn't reek of scum to me. If he held on to just the "this game is hard to win for cops" thing, I may have voted for him.

I think ika is acting like a very naughty deer caught between the headlights. I honestly don't remember the case against gleam anymore, and the one against Epignosis half-built on his meta, which I don't take stock on.

Um, someone tell me how to vote.

ika

Does that work?

Serge: You characterized ika as "a very naughty deer caught between the headlights." I won't give you an A for figurative language (what the hell does that even mean?), but what I want to know is this: How is "emergency sig," which you liked, different or similar to "very naughty deer caught between the headlights ika" Day 2? In more detail than strange similes, what led you to vote ika Day 2 and LC Day 3?

Because if sig is bad, I think you should be next.

Sloonei wrote:Why are yoi voting for draconusgoose?

Sloonei wrote:Why are people voting for Draconusgoose?

chaindeath wrote:Chaindeath would like to thank those who have created rainbow lists and he hopes you all will keep them updated. He feels that ones opinion on others will greatly help his opinion on you. That being said however, He would like to address those who have said they don't trust him or feel suspicious of him:

Why do you feel that way? What makes him seem like a baddie? How can he help show you that he is indeed a civi going for a civi win con?

He hopes it is not merely his post count. Yesterday (in game) he felt like he made a good amount of high content posts (quality over quantity with 300+ posts per day on average, or thereabouts). He even presented his first case in a mafia game with quotes and everything. Its frustrating to see people say He's a low poster when he truly is trying his best to contribute in meaningful ways.

He would like to conclude with his suspicions and his feelings on the game state at this point in time. TH and Scotty is sending some major baddie vibes. Nero still makes me uncomfortable and chaindeath would like to draw attention to him. Llama If he were to make a list you would likely be in the yellow-orange category and Zebra fall in there too.

Sig and quin.... He feels torn with you two. He would like to say you're both town but could not do so with a clear conscience. He is going to say you're town leaning baddie. Hopefuly he will be able to say otherwise by the end of this day phase.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:Do it then.

You may find this ironic, but I actually don't want to rush into my decision about where my vote actually ends up.

thellama73 wrote:In all seriousness, I see this all the time, and I regard it as a legitimate baddie catching technique. I ask someone if they are bad, and instead of saying "no" they make a joke out of it.

Why? I think there are still an awful lot of people who are subconsciously uncomfortable lying in the face of a very direct question, so they dodge instead. They don't mean to, but it is their instinct. I trust my methods, and it's why I'm voting Quin today.

Golden wrote:Yes, I did ISO them. You can tell very easily from starting a thread read from this point:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 95#p242395

Here are the key points...

Silverwolf

Silverwolf wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

Literally the only post that you can be referring to as SW making a case. Also the only one that can be referred to as SW putting Fuzz's name into a CFD pool. After that...

Golden wrote:Serge and Fuzz votes both opportunistic, I'd be open to either of them too.

I put Fuzz in the CFD pool.

S~V~S wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

I kind of agree. This is his last postmentioning ika:

RadicalFuzz wrote:Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

SVS makes the case...

And after both of those things...

Silverwolf wrote:

Golden wrote:Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

I don't like this. I never like the idea of a last minute flash wagon at the end of the day.

Your latest posts are not really sitting well with me.

Radical Fuzz, Golden need to be looked into more tomorrow IMO.

Silverwolf is clearly not even on board with a CFD at that time, even.

thellama73 wrote:Why aren't people voting Quin when he basically admitted to being bad?

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:Like, at least DDL's case on me has a little merit in that you can say I just went with the target. SVS didn't go with the target. She made the case and effectively selected the target.

Silverwolf created the case. ISO them both for their respective posts and you'll see that.

No. Thats simply not true. It's entirely false. Very similar to DDL saying silverwolf put Fuzz's name in the pool for possible CFD too, which was actually me. Neither of those things were silverwolf.

Golden wrote:Like, at least DDL's case on me has a little merit in that you can say I just went with the target. SVS didn't go with the target. She made the case and effectively selected the target.

Golden wrote:What were you talking about?

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote: To the very end she refuses to discuss anything.

Cool. Someone tell me this is normal behaviour. I don't get it.

My advice from personal experience. SVS is a mystery that cannot be understood. But it doesn't make her any less awesome (regardless of alignment).

In this case, I think you should really take note of her role in the Fuzz lynch. I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

I could say the same thing about my role in the lynch to her. She's definitely barking up the wrong tree.

But you see where that becomes counterproductive, I trust.

What role did you have in lynching any baddie? How can the two be compared?

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote: To the very end she refuses to discuss anything.

Cool. Someone tell me this is normal behaviour. I don't get it.

My advice from personal experience. SVS is a mystery that cannot be understood. But it doesn't make her any less awesome (regardless of alignment).

In this case, I think you should really take note of her role in the Fuzz lynch. I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

S~V~S wrote:

Quin wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Quin wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I did ISO you. I stand by what I said.

If you did, you cannot stand by what you said. An entire night phase and a day phase was spent establishing those points.

Yet I still do

Great. Then I guess we've got nothing left to discuss if you're going to be so closed-minded.

But you aren't discussing. You are No U-ing me big time. I said my piece about why i suspected you, and you start saying things like "lynch SVS". I read your posts, and I obviously interpret them differently than you do, and I standby my interpretation. I will have more time for a post on your posts in the AM, I am doing this, but also other stuff right now.

Linki @Zeeb~ I know you don't

Linki @ Indi, Linkapalooza

S~V~S wrote:

Quin wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I did ISO you. I stand by what I said.

If you did, you cannot stand by what you said. An entire night phase and a day phase was spent establishing those points.

Yet I still do

S~V~S wrote:I did ISO you. I stand by what I said.

S~V~S wrote:

Quin wrote:...Are you really going to argue that? What do I gain by pretending not to understand? What do you gain by refusing to elaborate on your point?

Please lynch SVS.

You think I was Fuzz' teammate? Really?

You on principle refused to vote for Fuzz (in a Mafia game) becasue the lynch on him came out of nowhere. Not becasue you thought the reasons for him being bad were wrong, but becasue it came out of nowhere.Not cause you thought he was civ, but on principle. Un hmm.

See, this proves that you haven't read my posts. I didn't oppose the lynch because it came out of nowhere, I opposed it because there was not any evidence I agreed with. No, I will not go through every point again, you can ISO me and find them.

Then you say you saved sig by voting for LC. YOU said this,not me. You. You said this means something; what does it mean, that you are a baddie? Then when this conversation started to get real, you tried to bring up Llama. Fairly classic deflection,no?

I did say this. There is zero point in admitting that I saved him if I was scum. I also directed the conversation to Nero just now. Because I am not going to follow one train of thought and ignore other potential suspects. The fact that you would expect this is scummy enough.

In the ruckus over defending Golden I had forgotten just how much you pinged me hard. So I think you for that Rainbow. It reminded me.

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:...Are you really going to argue that? What do I gain by pretending not to understand? What do you gain by refusing to elaborate on your point?

Please lynch SVS.

So, you are saying when TH called for a CFD, and SVS figured out the case on Fuzz, she was going out of her way to bus?

I mean, SVS would bus a teammate if she had to, but I can't see her ever going out of her way to choose her teammate as the target when they weren't before.

Silverwolf came up with the case on SVS. Makes sense that SVS would jump on a bandwagon waiting to happen to look better.

The EoD2 situation wasn't even a contributing factor, but thanks for helping me establish my case.

What are you talking about? Silverwolf came up with a case on me?

Turnip Head wrote:

Quin wrote:

Nerolunar wrote:I believe we should lynch Sig.

Right now lynching Sig is almost the only thing we are talking about. Are we going to talk about him next cycle too? It feels like we are not getting anywhere, and I would much rather get the paranoia out of the way asap. I think we can have a more clear approach to things once we are not as occupied with lynching Sig.

Will keeping Sig alive solve any problems? In my opinion, no. Rather, if he flips bad we can probably clear Golden and that would be really beneficial.

Let's talk about this post.

To me, it screams 'Look, it doesn't matter if sig is civ or scum. We should just lynch him because then people will stop talking about whether he's civ or scum.'

Well I can't say I disagree with him. This is getting old and no one is changing their mind. Some people refuse to move on until this happens.

Nerolunar wrote:I believe we should lynch Sig.

Right now lynching Sig is almost the only thing we are talking about. Are we going to talk about him next cycle too? It feels like we are not getting anywhere, and I would much rather get the paranoia out of the way asap. I think we can have a more clear approach to things once we are not as occupied with lynching Sig.

Will keeping Sig alive solve any problems? In my opinion, no. Rather, if he flips bad we can probably clear Golden and that would be really beneficial.

Golden wrote:

Quin wrote:...Are you really going to argue that? What do I gain by pretending not to understand? What do you gain by refusing to elaborate on your point?

Please lynch SVS.

So, you are saying when TH called for a CFD, and SVS figured out the case on Fuzz, she was going out of her way to bus?

I mean, SVS would bus a teammate if she had to, but I can't see her ever going out of her way to choose her teammate as the target when they weren't before.

thellama73 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Quin wrote:What do you all think about llama right now? Do you think his sudden declaration of activity to be a bit convenient given Silver's decision to start looking at inactives? Or is llama prone to these bursts of inactivity/activity due to work?

The latter.

I was legit in Cincinnati for the weekend working. You can check. There is video and photo documentation.

Here is a photo of me working, doubters.

S~V~S wrote:

Quin wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Well, I am happy with my Quin vote as my final vote. He was the last LC voter, he was an ika voter. Most of his posts got my Scooby senses tingling.

Linki, You did not read all of my posts then if you think that, Quin.

I did not miss them. However, you are missing mine. I was the first ika voter. That means something. I admitted to saving sig and went between voting LC and Nero. That means something. Hell, I was the first to discuss creating rainbow lists. THAT means something. I feel like you are ignoring everything for the sake of an easy follow up lynch. You need to address these points. Until you do, all I can see in your posts is scum.

OK, lol.

I am not missing yours.

Shortly before the Fuzz lynch ended:

Quin wrote:

no one ever voiced anything about fuzz until know.

This is what I am struggling to understand. It's why I am on principle refusing to vote for fuzz.

BAM, that wipes out your "first vote for Fuzz"

And you yourself seem to be saying your LC vote is suspect.

I have no worries going up on your list

S~V~S wrote:Well, I am happy with my Quin vote as my final vote. He was the last LC voter, he was an ika voter. Most of his posts got my Scooby senses tingling.

Linki, You did not read all of my posts then if you think that, Quin.

Black Rock wrote:I'm switching my vote to Sig, spread out votes aren't helping us this game.

I don't really understand the Llama suspicion. He seems rather neutral this game. Quin, can you tell me why you have Golden in red?

Linki Golden, Zebra is a cop? That's the only thing that makes sense to me right now.