I've changed it so all roles flip and I'm adding another civilian. At some point the max number of players got bumped to 20 so yay
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I've changed it so all roles flip and I'm adding another civilian. At some point the max number of players got bumped to 20 so yay
Quin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:32 pmA game for 19 players
THE ‘END’ CLASS (CIVILIANS)
Must eliminate the mafia team to win. All students (minus Karma, Kaede, and Nagisa) begin as vanilla until their latent abilities are unlocked.
Karma Akabane: A sadistic and skilled member of Class 3-E. His aptitude for leadership allows him to control the vote of one player each day. However, Karma is so manipulative that the player will not be aware that they have been targeted. *Secrets*
Yuma Isogai: The male Representative of Class 3-E. The true nature of his relationship with Megu Kataoka is rumoured among his classmates. Their mutual positions as class representatives will strengthen the power of Isogai's vote by 1 if they vote together during any day phase.
Hinata Okano: An agile classmate who specialises in close range combat. Targets that she visits on odds nights are disabled and become unable to act.
Megu Kataoka: The female Representative of Class 3-E. The true nature of her relationship with Yuma Isogai is rumoured among her classmates. Her closeness with Isogai provides them with BTSC for as long as they are both alive.
Kaede Kayano: A well-beloved classmate. For every lynch in which she takes no votes, her vote will be worth two the following day. *Secrets*
Justice Kimura: The fastest runner out of all of his classmates. Kimura can attempt to outrun those who would vote for him with a 50% chance of evading the first lynch attempt on his life.
Nagisa Shiota: The figurehead of Class 3-E with a deep level of respect for Koro-Sensei. During each day phase he may help a student unlock their latent ability, in which case the respective player will no longer be a vanilla civilian. *Secrets*
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Sosuke Sugaya: He is the most artistically inclined student in the class and has shown the ability to work well under intense pressure. Each night, Sugaya can protect a player of his choice by substituting them with a well-crafted dummy.
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Ryunosuke Chiba: The best long-distance sniper in the class. During one night phase, he has a 90% chance of killing the player of his choosing. However, Chiba's accuracy will drop by 20% for every night action used on him the night he takes his shot.
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Ryoma Terasaka: Easily the most durable member of Class 3-E. His physical strength and endurance allows him to survive the first non-lynch attempt on his life.
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Rinka Hayami: A sniper with less range and accuracy than Chiba, but one who can take down any moving target. During one night phase, she has a 75 percent chance of killing a player who received votes in the last lynch. If her target is also targeting her, she will fire with 100% accuracy.
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Yuzuki Fuwa: She has a knack for solving mysteries and is able to identify strange aspects of any situation. If a lynch does not go as expected, she will be provided with a lynch poll that reflects all vote manipulation.
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Toka Yada: Yada has shown incredible skill in negotiation and persuasion. She has the ability to redirect a players night action onto a target of her choice. If Toka uses this role on a mafia member, she will redirect the players secondary ability as opposed to the night kill.
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Taisei Yoshida: An independent member of class 3-E with a knack for mechanics and engineering. He carries a stun-gun that he can use to role block a player every even night.
ASSASSINS (MAFIA)
Share BTSC and a nightly kill. Must outnumber the civilians in a scenario where the assassins can no longer possibly be killed in order to win.
Smog: An assassin well-trained in the creation and use of various poisons. In addition to the night kill, Smog can use one of his poisons to paralyse and role block one student each night.
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Grip: An eccentric assassin who takes pride in the strength of his grip. In addition to the night kill, Grip chokes out a player each night, silencing them during the next day phase.
Gastro: A seasoned veteran who loves the taste of his gun. His incredible skill as a marksman prevents his night kill from being interrupted by any means (with the exception of Koro-Sensei’s protection).
Akira Takaoka: A trained soldier who once served as the P.E teacher of Class 3-E. In addition to the night kill, his time spent training the class to develop their talents as assassins allows him to determine the role of one player each night.
INDEPENDENT
Koro-Sensei: The absurd homeroom teacher and unkillable assassination target of Class 3-E. His ability to travel at Mach 20 speed prevents him from being lynched, night killed or targeted by any other actions. Each night, he will nurture a student’s talent, in which case the respective player will no longer be a vanilla civilian. He takes roll-call every phase, and will receive a list of all students that are still alive. *Secrets*
Alright. This is one of the fun things about hosting when your time zone is out of whack with everyone elsejuliets wrote:In that case Quin I suggest you push your end time back as far as you can so it will be later in the evening american east coast time. People who work will have to review the whole day when they get home and then determine who they are going to vote for, else they will have to vote early in the morning before anything has happened in the mafia day.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think you'd have an easier time, and it'd probably be fairer, if the shots resolve at the end of the phase. Immediate shots have more strategic intent (i.e. "I think this guy is going to say something bad in a few minutes and I want to prevent that") which can only be realized if you're online at all times. You won't be, and I think it'd be better to just allow the civvies with guns to know their strategic limitations from the start.Quin wrote:1) Would it be better to have gunshots by civvies revealed at the end of a phase as opposed to as they happen? It may more efficient to do it that way, because it brings to question how quickly I'm able to respond to it, and given that I'm from a different time zone to most people, that might be a risk. I still think they should be able to kill either day or night. During the day, if someone is shot, their vote won't count, and during the night, they're liable to be protected.
I agree. I'll make it so shots are revealed at the end of the day.
Any time a role is targeted instead of a player, the ability is more powerful -- so it's good that you're mindful of that. Whether it'd be "overpowered" is dependent upon what roles are being unlocked. If you feel those powers may be significant enough to influence the way players are read publicly, and that the game could easily be decided based on these unlocks -- it might be a better idea to switch to player targets instead of role targets. The alternative is to incorporate a mechanic which does in some way facilitate role misuse (maybe a percentage chance of success, or the slight potential for a negative result instead of an unlock for a student who isn't receptive to the teaching -- a lost vote or something). Between those options I would favor player targeting, since almost any element of unpredictability favors the baddies by default.Quin wrote:2) Currently I have Nagisa and Koro-Sensei able to unlock the powers of specific characters and NOT specific players. For example, Nagisa would unlock the role of Justice Kimura as opposed to the role of [PLAYER X]. Is this better suited, or does the fact that there's no potential for role misuse overpower the role slightly? Also, should it be revealed in the thread when a player has had their latent ability unlocked, or should that be only revealed to the player benefiting from it? If you prefer the former, should Nagisa and Koro-sensei be kept in the loop so they know which roles have or haven't been unlocked by the other?
One of the things I wanted to see was how the two roles would prioritise the unlocking of specific roles - what's more important, a lie detector or a roleblocker? So ideally, I'd like to keep the idea of role targeting. I'm not an experienced host by any means so maybe I'm throwing out the balance by doing so - and I'll take the brunt of that if it in some way is detrimental to baddies. I do have a few ideas in my head about how I can compensate for this.
I think that generally these sorts of "find player X" BTSC roles are underpowered just because it's so hard to find those people. It's almost random guessing. At the same time though, when BTSC is achieved it is very strong. Perhaps a better compromise in the only-one-is-activated scenario than one-way BTSC would be to allow both parties to participate under their ROLE NAMES instead of their player names. That enables cooperation and dialogue without confirming anyone.Quin wrote:3) Should my BTSC civvies be able to establish BTSC even if only one of them have had their ability unlocked? That is to say, if Isogai can search for Kataoka, but Kataoka can't search for Isogai, should it be required that they both have their abilities unlocked before they can communicate? Alternatively, there could be a temporary one-sided BTSC where one could send a message to the other each night, which would evolve into full BTSC once the other is unlocked. In writing this, I feel like these roles are slightly underpowered because first, they have to wait until at least one of their abilities are unlocked, and then they have to search for eachother. I'll have to revisit them.
I could create a chatzy group for the two of them to use, and after one of them has had their ability unlocked they could use it under their role name. If the second player then gets targeted, they can swap out for their actual player name. That removes the whole 'find player x' scenario, which I agree is kind of underpowered. I'd just have to stress that they make no hints about their actual identity, and I'd moderate the chat.
I honestly don't like lie detectors period. I don't think players should have to concern themselves with that kind of thing every single time they make posts. A simple alignment checker is usually better, and in a no infodumping setup it's rarely overpowered. The value of that role depends heavily upon whether you intend to reveal the roles of nightkill victims. If you DO, then the killed alignment checker can be back-analyzed for crucial information (very strong). If not, then their information dies with them and players are still making inferences. This obviously doesn't apply if the role is lynched.Quin wrote:4) I think having a lie detector amongst so many powerful roles (3 secret roles, vigilantes, etc) overpowers the game in favour of the civs. I'd ideally like to change it to something less powerful that still sort of fits that investigative role. Maybe a cop?
I considered this again and found a way to maybe balance this out alongside the Kayano/Kimura thing, which I'll mention in a sec.lol no that didn't work
For the record, I don't intend on revealing nightkill victim's roles.
I think the biggest issue to consider with any vote manipulation is that it changes town's control over the tally -- even when it's a town-based power that can be a problem for the faction. If these are roles that must first be activated though that lessens their power nicely. I do think a limited use version would be better though, because every day could potentially turn multiple lynches over. If you make them 1-shot or 2-shot, it forces more strategizing.Quin wrote:5) In regards to both Kayano and Justice's powers, is having a vote counting for two and a -1 vote each day overpowered? I wonder if I should nerf it slightly to be a limited use power.
I think it makes sense to nerf both of their roles to probably about 2 uses each. As for the lie detector, I want to scrap it and possibly replace it with a one-time use to see the actual tally of a specific day phase. I'm talking myself out of this idea already because of the low chance that this will actually reveal any 'actionable' information. This character doesn't really have much going for her beside the 'investigator' trope so ideally I'd like to scrap her, but I can't because it'd break the entire point of this themeI still need to think about this role some more, I think.
My dos pesos.
So you're saying that (during the day) I could restrict target options to those who have more than one vote? That sounds like a neat idea, but it does make confirming relatively easy depending on how many people voted for the person. I could instead make it so they can only shoot at night, but I'll mull the options over for a while.JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Another thing to consider with your two civilian gunmen is that if they fire during the day, they cannot be roleblocked or prevented at all. This means that firing at night would be nigh pointless, as far as I can tell (because at night they can be blocked). One idea I've just had to offset that imbalance could be:
If the gunmen fire during the day phase, they may only target a player who received a final vote from someone else that day phase (specifically someone else so they can't confirm themselves by voting alone and shooting the same person). That way there's a drawback both ways: at night there's the chance of a roleblock, and during the day the options are more limited.
Just one idea though, and it only matters if you're concerned with the problem. It looks like a neat game.