The Syndicate

Also, I'm gonna do a little I'm busy rant. And this is not personal to you bea as a lot of people have been doing it.

Listen, we all get busy IRL. I don't expect anyone to live their life playing mafia. But if you sign up for a game and are continuously talking about how busy you are, and not addressing questions/concerns, not posting enough content to get a good read from, and similar play, then I get frustrated by it.

Why? because you signed up for a game and I do expect some participation from people that do.

End I'm busy rant.

Silverwolf wrote:

bea wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:Wow, I butchered the hell out of that quote.

Oh well, I think it's clear what I mean.

What's clear (to anyone who wants to really look) is that you completely avoided engaging with any of my points or questions, and moved right to your tired old schtick of "he's misrepresenting! he's discrediting!" But don't worry, I doubt anyone will bother looking.

as much as it pains me to say this, you might be on to sonmething here.

bea-In going through your ISO, I saw this post. You also made a lot of posts agreeing with Long Con or supporting him in some ways-telling him you were listening, etc.

So my question is, do you have a civ reading on Long Con and if so, elaborate on it please?

A lot of your comments are kind of offhand comments that make it hard for me to get a read of you. So if you elaborate on one of your reads, this will help me a lot and I imagine others as well.

bea-I just posted this today not that long ago. I don't know how you do catchups and I know you are busy, but I'm not sure how you could of missed it either, especially since you are responding to others. It disturbs me that you are not addressing my concerns.

Polo wrote: Look at the poll. a2thezebra is not an option.

Wow, I just looked and noticed this. Is it something new that happened with the secret role being revealed I wonder? Like they can remove someone from the lynch pool?

Dr. Wilgy-OK, looking forward to it.

Vompatti's ISO doesn't look as bad as I thought it would, he does put his opinions in there, nothing stands out as suspicious

Polo-You had metalmarsh as bad in your GTH reads-can you elaborate on that?

OK, Well looking at Bea and Black Rock's ISO's and they don't look that bad to me overall. They are both busy and that is apparent at some points but there are some good points in Bea's about people she's suspicious of and some scumhunting points in Black Rock's that look good so for right now, I'm gonna eliminate them as potential suspects for this day phase.

bea wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:Wow, I butchered the hell out of that quote.

Oh well, I think it's clear what I mean.

What's clear (to anyone who wants to really look) is that you completely avoided engaging with any of my points or questions, and moved right to your tired old schtick of "he's misrepresenting! he's discrediting!" But don't worry, I doubt anyone will bother looking.

as much as it pains me to say this, you might be on to sonmething here.

bea-In going through your ISO, I saw this post. You also made a lot of posts agreeing with Long Con or supporting him in some ways-telling him you were listening, etc.

So my question is, do you have a civ reading on Long Con and if so, elaborate on it please?

A lot of your comments are kind of offhand comments that make it hard for me to get a read of you. So if you elaborate on one of your reads, this will help me a lot and I imagine others as well.

I personally feel town hunting is super important if town wants to win more games here. Town need to recognize each other and work together on reads and lynches. I don't mean we have to all think alike. I mean, just try to figure out who is town and listen to them. Ask questions of each other and who you think is bad and post ISO's, cases, analysis. I mean my biggest pet peeve is inactivity and those who don't post much of substance. It's nothing personal, but this means I can't read you and will inevitably want to lynch you as scum going under the radar or town who isn't gonna help the game.

S~V~S wrote: This is a huge part of the problem the civs have on this site in general; everyone wants to flog their own suspects, and no one is willing to listen to anyone else. We have one guy going on about JJJ, and tbh, that is the worst possible lynch, imo. Everybody only cares about their own suspects.

This is why I asked everyone to picl their top three last night, maybe we can come to a consensus.

I think Wilgy is likely to be cylon. I thought IAWY was a cylon, the only person who has history with IAWY thought he was a cylon, and Wilgy is not acting like a civ. He is my primary candidate for a cylon.

I agree and am pretty much at the point of voting for Wilgy as my number one. I agree about civs not working together well here and I had a problem with that in Turf Wars and a lesser problem with it in Mafia Championship since no one agree'd with me about MP who turned out to be scum. MP was doing lots of ISO's and giving reads and defended himself well. I think JJJ is civ. The only paranoia I have is the fact he's acting like MP did there. I still think his ISO's are better though in that they end up with well developed reads that make sense and don't look fabricated. His case on nutella was good and his case on Long Con was good-if Long Con is bad then JJJ is even more civ leaning in my book. My other only very mild paranoia was I felt some buddying earlier but that could be he saw how frustrated I was in Turf Wars and is trying to work with me more as town here which is a good thing.

I'd also still be willing to lynch Long Con. Black Rock's support of him holds some weight and he definitely is showing a lot of effort and not knowing about certain things that'd I'd expect him too seems genuine but I have a bad feeling about him I can't shake.

ISOing Glorfindel he has a few good posts and explains himself well. I don't like his voting pattern and behavior around lynches however.

Wilgy seems just too unreadable for me and I didn't like IAWY so I guess that's my biggest complaint about him.

bea has just faded fast, I know she's busy but even her last catch up was basically a bunch of nothing, just kind of floating around here and there.

Matt wrote:Updated list of Non-Claimers
a2thezebra
DrWilgy
Epignosis
Glorfindel
OA
Ricotech
Sokoth
Vompatti

Off this list, I'm gonna vote for either DrWilgy or Glorfindel-I will re ISO Glorfindel. Wilgy, I'm not trying to force you into any certain style of play but answering my questions will help me read you better. Glorfindel asked about my suspicions and tried to address them. That's a point in his favor and a negative in yours. Again, I want to get the best read I can on you both because off the above list, one of you two are it, since sig claimed for real and likely isn't a good option now for today because he claimed today.

I'm not going to witch hunt off this list. I'm only gonna pick people on it I'm suspicious of. If the only nonclaimers seem town, then I'll leave them alone.

Zebra has posted content. JJJ seems like he's analyzing things similar to when he was town in Turf Wars. I'm not opposed to Glorfindel being another option outside of sig but I'd also be unopposed to Wilgy. I mean, IAWY had a scum game here where he was majorly lurky. He hardly posted here at all before he replaced. He supposedly, by people who know him, is a huge asset if he's town. Wilgy replaces, tells me he doesn't post much as scum and tries to fly under the radar, and that's exactly what he is doing here. I mean, come on people what has he done? He wants to do GTH.

Hey Wilgy:

Do it. ISO every JJJ post where he does GTH, quote them one at a time and do it FFS. It's not that hard. You also said you thought I was bad a long time ago and were gonna ISO me and prove it. I haven't seen that yet and I already asked you for it. If you changed your mind, that's fine but explain why then. What are your thoughts on me? Let's go. It's not that hard.

You say you trust Bea and Zebra-Why? You don't trust Rico and OA? Why?

You voted sig and Nerolunar and Epi. Why?

Well, we can still lynch sig. He argued long and hard about putting Epi in second place to force him to claim while at the same time not claiming until the start of this day phase and also not claiming at the same time. Per Golden, this didn't even count.

Second place can go to Bea or Wilgy as far as I'm concerned as I'm suspicious of them both. We don't have to all be robots and coordinate one second and the other third. Here people can vote on whoever they feel most sus about.

If someone feels more suss about someone else and wants them lynched like Long Con for example, I'm willing to listen. Or if there is someone else who hasn't been cased much but you are super sus about, by all means say so. I'd love to hear it.

I have a few I won't lynch at all no mattter what but I'm still willing to listen.

This is just my opinion and what I want to do with the vote today but anyone else can say what they think as well. I just don't want another scenario where the second highest vote getter is lynched and flips civ like Nero if we can avoid it.

Dex wrote:EBWOP

...a vote today FOR SIG is now wasted...

Yeah he claimed today so that gets him out of a lynch if he's cylon today.

I also feel like everyone should claim cylon but it's obvious there are some who are not going to-Epi, Sokoth, OA and I am not going to push to lynch people for having minds of their own. So in any case, I'd like everyone that is willing to claim, claim and if you don't, just tell us why as these 3 already have. Even if they get out of a lynch down the road and are cylon, I still don't want to force anyone to go along with group think. We are not a cult here. I'm o.k. with them saying no. I think we've wasted a lot of game time trying to convince people to do it who are not going to.

Sorry, town lost in that Championship game.

Epignosis wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:A few are suspicious of JJJ-what's the case? I'm genuinely curious because I see him doing a lot of gamesolving along with Rico which is why I have those two as town. If either, both of them are scum, I'm likely not gonna catch them at this point so I'd like to see some reasoning on why if you suspect them. I'm open to listening on anyone as I'm have a really hard time getting good reads this game. It's frustrating the hell out of me tbh. Maybe it's cuz I don't know the lore.

This is why you're going to be mopped up here many times over if you play long enough. "Gamesolving" is a simple thing to fake. I can turn it on when I want to. A number of people here can. Sometimes we're genuine about it and sometimes we're being bullshitters. I'm dropping 3J and Rico into the latter category. 3J to the greater extent, and Ricochet as a peripheral accomplice, if you will. No, I don't expect either one will be lynched today in the present climate. But if you take their names off the table because they're "gamesolving," you are giving them a pass and allowing their content to slide without scrutiny.

Good point. I went after MP who was scum in Championship despite his game solving-doing ISO's like JJJ and Rico are and posting heavily but no one listened because of his heavy posting. So I never got him lynched and town won. I see more town motivation in their posting that scum at this time but I am willing to listen to evidence on the contrary because I'm hard pressed to want them lynched.

Also as a side note to everyone. I would love to hear some points from Black Rock on SVS this day phase. It will help me read them both. I have SVS as town as of right now. But going against the grain on this, would have me assume she has some reasons and I'd love to see them.

Silverwolf wrote: My top suspects are sig, Long Con, D'Faraday-replacement.

I am also suspicious of Glorfindel and Wilgy. If D'Faraday replacement keeps posting, I can re-evaluate that read. I'd be willing to give him that chance.

Wilgy is based on IAWY not doing anything like his scum game in championship game and Wilgy even admitted he lays low as scum and he's def laying low this game. Sig and Long Con are obvious bad guys. The only thing I am hesitant on is that Long Con has a few good posts like his reachout to me and sig isn't playing like his bad game in championship where he looked pretty town by giving lots of reads.

linki-I think Sokoth is being pretty genuine this game and am not inclined to lynch him at this time

So say we all!

RIP Scotty, I feel like no one listens to the dead so let me break down your ISO and maybe we can get something out of it.

He heavily suspected sig and also suspected Glorfindel. He was a major proponent of everyome claiming cylon and suspicious of those who didn't. He believed Epi was town aligned and asserted that quite a few times in his ISO.

Did put a vote on nutella and suspected her. He also suspected Long Con, Rico, and D'Faraday. Laid out some decent points on D'Faraday early in the game and early on, thought LC was human before later mentioning he was suspicious of Long Con.

Had a townread on Zebra. Suspicious of Rico for the ika kill mostly.

Voted D'Faraday, nutella, and sig twice.

So, he was likely chosen for something here as there was probably a reason to kill him in this stuff. Either the killers don't like the plan on having everyone claiming cylon and took someone out supporting that and/or sig, Glorfindel, Rico, Long Con, D'Faraday took him out. Or they thought he was never gonna be lynched and wanted to remove someone like that.

My top suspects are sig, Long Con, D'Faraday-replacement. A few are suspicious of JJJ-what's the case? I'm genuinely curious because I see him doing a lot of gamesolving along with Rico which is why I have those two as town. If either, both of them are scum, I'm likely not gonna catch them at this point so I'd like to see some reasoning on why if you suspect them. I'm open to listening on anyone as I'm have a really hard time getting good reads this game. It's frustrating the hell out of me tbh. Maybe it's cuz I don't know the lore.

Also, glorfindel the tone of your posts is very appeasy like which I take more as a scum thing because town generally doesn't try to appease people for the most part and has a more hard-headed approach where you are trying to please and not taking any stances that are too harsh on anything.

Hope this makes sense as I have to go for awhile.

Glorfindel wrote:@SilverWolf: I think in the GTH, I recall that you indicated that you didn't have a favour able impression of me. May I ask why? If you'd prefer not to volunteer that assessment, that's fine but I'm curious whether you were influenced by the views of others or there was some reason you personally didn't like the cut of my jib

It's mostly your attitude towards nutella. You either dismissed the case on her or didn't offer a very strong opinion one way or another plus you didn't vote for her. It's also a little bit of a gut read. I'm not sure I've seen strong enough opinions from you to warrant any sort of townread either.

Having said that, I'm out most of the day today for medical reasons and I doubt I'll feel well enough to be playing later. Of course I could be surprised by this and feel fine but I doubt it. I'll be back when I feel up to it.

I wanted to get some last minute thoughts out there just in case I'm gone all night phase.

DrWilgy wrote: Sometimes silencing a common civ read can save them from NK and bring other players out of lurking. Perhaps forcing activity from others was the intention. Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure you are bad. ISO incoming.

Dr. Wilgy-What changed your mind on me here from bad to good? I expected you to ISO and case me.

bea wrote: Also I'm caught up! Yay!

bea-After catching up, what are your recent thoughts opinions, etc?

Also, Dr. Wilgy not reading but still posting he hasn't read could be town. Not sure. ISOing him doesn't do me much good trying to read him.

Is Drumbeats still playing or does he need to be replaced?

Regarding the GTH, I really think there are too many where everyone is saying good or everyone is saying bad to really get good stats on it. I'd like to question those that went against the grain on Matt for example or if anyone had a different opinion that the others on other people. Because those are the viewpoints that I'd like to hear from-people like this often pick up on things others didn't see and have good reasons for their suspicions or interesting perspective on a townread.

Black Rock-goes after me for my suspicion of Long Con, says I'm misrepresenting him but never follows up or engages me, I find this impossible to analyze.

Expresses lots of suspicion of LoRab and does a decent job of following that through to lynch a suspect. Expresses suspicion of Daisy but does nothing further to investigate it.

Vote for nutella looks good.

Seems determined that LC is good. Fair enough read here. I'd love to see more reasoning behind this as it would help me read them both but I'm not holding my breath.

Accuses LoRab and Nutella of being partners-looks good here.

Says Matt is buddying MM but really just one off-hand comment.

Business and not wanting to read large games and getting lost looks really genuine.

OK-goes into light townread pile.

OK, So 5 I didn't do:

Epi-good

Long Con-bad

Bea-bad

Black Rock-good

Vompatti-good

Sorry I'm so late on this but these were the ones I was gonna examine more closely-and still am gonna ISO bea and black rock first thing but this is just GTH right now.

I'm only classifying Epi as good due to good/bad cylon mechanic although I have liked some of his recent posts.

Long Con-I've had a baddie read on for so long it's hard to just change it to good because I feel like I was played.

Bea-has faded a lot in terms of post quality, def. suspicious of

Black Rock and Vompatti-most likely town due to the fact their posts lack baddie motivation and they don't appear to be caring too much about the game which usually comes more from town-I'd love them to be more readable but it is what it is.

Sorry to those of you who made charts but I wanted my GTH reads to be complete.

ObscureAllure wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

ObscureAllure wrote:I is trying so hard not to go do-do. Must.wait.for.EOD.post

Are you sure you're not squeezing one out with each syllable you marked with a period here?

I'm going to bed before this turns into another terrible night of ass jokes.

LOL NOT DOODOO! Do-do as in Fais do-do as in make sleep. You non-Cajuns and your silly English.

OMG, I thought you were talking about pooping also. I was thinking, you better just do it cuz Golden said it'd be late.

Spacedaisy wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:I'm a hell of a lot nicer and easy going IRL than I am in a Mafia game. Mafia makes me crazy but I love it cuz I'm crazy.

You don't seem not nice to me in mafia, only emotional and defensive. I'm sure you are quite lovely to spend time with irl.

Yeah, I can be that way in a game.

Also, ika comes off as very abrasive in mafia games but is one of the nicest, most caring people you will ever meet IRL.

Mafia just brings out emotions because we are all accusing each other of being murders. I don't know how it can not.

I admire those that keep their cool in games. I am working on it but nowhere close to being able to do that.

I'm a hell of a lot nicer and easy going IRL than I am in a Mafia game. Mafia makes me crazy but I love it cuz I'm crazy.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GUN TO HEAD GO:

ZEBRA

BEA

BLACK ROCK

good

meh

meh

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

DFARADAY / DEX

DRUMBEATS

DRWILGY

bad

good

bad

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

SILVERWOLF

SIG

SCOTTY

awesome

bad

bad

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:No MATT?

lol oops

GTH GO

MATT

good

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

LORAB

METALMARSH89

OBSCUREALLURE

bad

good

good

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

JAGGEDJIMMYJAY

JULIETS

LONG CON

good

bad

ugh

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

VOMPATTI

SPACEDAISY

SOKOTHQULTUG

No clue

good

good

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

EPIGNOSIS

GLORFINDEL

G-MAN

Please don't make me

Bad

Good

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:GTH GO

S~V~S

RICOCHET

POLO

Good

Good

Good

I see we are doing GTH reads which I enjoy but just signed on so I will be behind but will join in and do them all as quick as I can.

Juliets is someone I also am suspicious of due to very safe, under the radar play very similar to nutella. She seems too cautious to be town.

Glorfindel I'm also suspicious of for similar reasons.

Black Rock is way too null for me and that also makes me suspicious.

I've given up trying to figure out Vompatti-I'm indifferent here.

I don't know what to do with Epi and Long Con right now because they were big suspicions I pushed, and now I'm not even sure what to think so I'm not even gonna classify them.

Bea has disappeared and I know she's busy but while she looked town in the beginning, has faded considerably and I'm worried about as well.

D'Farady, Wilgy, sig, Scotty are all in the null-scum pile

Very, very light townreads on polo, drumbeats, Gman, Sokoth, Spacedaisy, SVS, Zebra, Gman

Stonger townreads on: Matt, JJJ, Ricochet, metalmarsh, ObscureAllure

Today's lynch: LoRab

OK, So I got a ton of null, null scum, light town. Only a few town and a few suspicions but noting super strong.

This makes me feel like scum is laying low this game and we need to look at inactives and people not posting much when they are here. Is also makes me feel like I need to ISO numerous people to try to figure them out and I really don't want to cuz I'm lazy and busy.

Oh you mean when someone is right for the wrong reasons. That's frustrated the hell out of me before as a baddie. I've also been genuinely frustrated as hell at being suspected when I'm good. Still trying to decide which one Long Con is. I will agree he is frustrated, no doubt. I will agree he's putting a lot of effort into the game. I agree he is addressing the concerns against him and not blowing people off. If he is bad, he's playing a good game. Similar to what MP did in the Championship game where I couldn't get anyone to go along with me to suspect him. All I had against him was his tone and a couple awkward posts, and a major gut feel. He got out of it by putting in a ton of effort and convincing other, falsely, that effort is indicative of alignment when it really isn't. So, I'm paranoid the same thing is happening here. However, my big suspicion has to do with something that I very well may have been for a fool over so that throws me for a loop as well. So fuck me if I now what the hell to make of Long Con right now. I do appreciate how he re-addressed my concerns and tried to make things right-that seems more civ like than not. I just don't want to drop my suspicion and find out I was right or get him lynched and be wrong when if he is good, he's an active and engaged player who would be helpful to the civ cause. So fuck if I know. Also, am I the only person besides ika who swears on this site?

sig wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:

sig wrote: I think any attempt to counter lorab is being done by her teammates.

Yes, because I'm an idiot.

No need to get nasty and defensive.

No need to assume everything is black and white and not read my posts either. And that wasn't nasty and defensive. It was pure snark. I'm starting to agree with others that you are bad. I haven't really seen you do much this game as far as game solving. I mean, yeah you want to get Epi lynched but what else have you really done outside that? The fact I'd have to go look at your ISO to find out means you are too unreadable for my tastes.

sig wrote: I think any attempt to counter lorab is being done by her teammates.

Yes, because I'm an idiot.

Also, D'Faraday cw is actually one I hope would give the most value in either getting him to post or helping others to see he needs to be lynched. I'm still supportive of a LoRab lynch.

Also, I have a townread on Zebra.

a2thezebra wrote: You see I'm a student of the School of Ika, and therefore I believe that it's grasping at straws to make a distinction between a moderately passionate read of mine and a confirmed player. There isn't enough of a difference really for me to use the word "confirmed" only in reference to players that are actually confirmed.

I'm highlighting this so he sees it when he checks the thread because it will give him a chuckle.

Ricochet wrote:I went to bad asking what others think of DrumBeats. What do others think of DrumBeats?

Any particular thoughts on Silverwolf, too, or are we all content with her game right now?

I have a light townread on Drumbeats due mostly to his early play and voting behavior around nutella lynch. That hasn't changed as of right now.

Polo wrote:I've said it about 5 times already, you guys should definitely look into Bea, DrWilgy, Glorfindel and Sig!

They have NOT claimed Cylon, they have NOT voted for Nutella on D2 lynch poll, they have voted for Nerolunar on D3!

In this order of most suspicious to least:

Dr. Wilgy I'd be willing to look into more. He hasn't done much since he replaced IAWY who didn't do much. At this stage in the game the low content posters should be looked at. I have no idea on sig, he's null to me. Glorfindel and Bea have had some townie looking posts but their voting history sucks I agree. So in order of most to least suspicious in this group is Wilgy, Sig, Glorfindel, Bea.

Long Con wrote:You can't imagine how frustrating it is to be accused of knowing what's going on with you and your Mystery Crew, but I have nothing to do with it. WHY do you all think that? Some sort of clue? Uh, it couldn't be someone intentionally misleading you maybe??? I don't know, I'm friggin blind here.

I'm starting to wonder about this. The other person I expected to go after you for this, didn't. So now I don't know what is going on with that. Yes, I'm being intentionally vague but it had a lot to do with my suspicion of you so now.

I guess I'll look at who agree'd with me that didn't know what I knew also.

SVS and JJJ come to mind right now but that's only if I accept the fact you are town and there is no way in hell I'm listening to anyone who calls anyone confirmed town in this game.

LoRab is a guarantee'd lynch so I want a cw. Marmot gave a good one in D'Faraday. He's produced literally 8 posts in this game and like 3 of them say anything worth a damn. It's day 4. He needs to produce or be lynched. I'd like something to be gained from this day so.

Vote: D'Faraday

Sokoth-although I don't know you that well as a player, your answers seemed genuine enough so I'm not really suspicious of you right now. Thanks for taking the time to help me out with that.

Ricochet wrote:DFaraday

Day Two [23rd vote out of 26, 4th vote for zebra, nutella was leading 7-5]

- one single post about not feeling it for either Long Con and nutella

Day Three [10th vote out of 25, 6th vote for LoRab, LoRab had not claimed yet]

- one single post about finding it agreeable that LoRab was spotted as a potential Long Con counterwagoner for nutella

Ugh. DF is reaching borderline Bass levels of vexating scarcity of posts and reasons for his votes. But if trying to squeeze this rock a fair bit, this could look unfavorable for him. His zebra sideline vote is position at a critical point of nutella slipping to her doom. LoRab vote is out of nowhere and close to LoRab being forced to claim to save her skin. I am not liking anymore how little DF is doing and how hard he's making it to be found trustworthy. Critical Wag of Finger.

I'd be willing to lynch D'Faraday.

Sokoth-I'm not trying to be rude, but is this how you always play mafia. Stay out of the action, come in with a post about the mechanics once in awhile, vote on the popular wagon-I can't blame you for this one this time-and then peace out?

How is anyone supposed to figure you out? Serious question.

Long Con, if I am somehow seriously wrong here, then I need to see town in you and I don't. I don't like mislynching people but with every rebuttal you make, you look worse because you get defensive and turn it around on me. If I was a civ in your place, I'd probably get frustrated but I'd be able to show it because it's almost impossible for me not to when I'm town. I'm patiently waiting to see even a sign of this from you. I am pretty good at picking out town. It's how I play. I find town and PoE scum or I go after someone blatantly scummy due to their voting or behavior or associations with flipped scum. If I'm wrong, there's things you can do to show it. I don't think I should have to tell you what they are. Figure it out and I'll see if I believe you by watching you play.

linki-You know too much about that stuff for me to be comfortable with you.