The Syndicate

S~V~S wrote:And publicly disagreeing with you is something only baddies do? Epi just did it and I see you think he is a baddie, too.

I speak my mind, son. Always.

S~V~S wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Spoiler: show

Polo wrote:ObscureAllure, how in the heavens is sig a confirmed Cylon?

____________________________________________________________________

Going back a bit:

The Glorfindel/G-Man interaction smells artificial and fishy to me, and not like a red herring. I have to ISO G-Man because he appears to be trying too hard to look neutral. He could be mafia too.

G-Man wrote:As I see no reason not to, vote = Glorfindel

Burning bridges on your way out is considered poor form.

Is this you trying to burn the bridge that leads us to you, G-Man?

____________________________________________________________________

Very well, my post on S~V~S.

DISCLAIMER: I am working with the hypothesis that S~V~S is mafia, and possibly John Cavil. I will explain here why I think she's mafia and why I think she's Cavil, and all commentary will be made with the assumption that I am correct.

Should I convince you to lynch her, there could be two outcomes to this:

> S~V~S is civ: I will gladly accept to be lynched on the following day if this is the case, which I doubt it will be.
> S~V~S is mafia: We'll be much closer to victory.

Therefore, I am playing this move like a poker player going all in with the entire stake; and I only do this in poker when I truly believe I am going to reap the rewards.

Let's begin:


Day 1: S~V~S voted Ricochet:

She voted Rico near the closing of the poll, even though she suspected G-Man, because she "didn't want to spread the votes", and Rico's insistence on the importance of saying "so say we all" was making her suspicious. This is a lame excuse for a vote, IMO. But it is after all Day 1, and it doesn't matter much.

Day 2: S~V~S voted nutella:

Nutella was Number Four, and according to show lore, the #4 aboard the fleet was reluctant to support the Cylon cause. The other #4s were all evil.
If this game's Simon O'Neill was mafia, then I can see this vote being S~V~S throwing one of her own under the bus in order to escape any suspicion, for her survival is vital to the Cavil faction.
If this game's Simon O'Neill is based on the good #4, then this is S~V~S eliminating a nuisance.

She said if Nutella flips bad, then Spacedaisy is bad too. Spacedaisy was NK'd on N5. She wanted Daisy gone and some players even began to read her as bad, e.g. Dex, but it didn't work out and mafia decided to nightkill her.

Day 3: S~V~S voted Lorab:

S~V~S was the 5th vote on the Lorab bandwagon. If D'Anna Biers was civ, then this is mafia attempting to eliminate a target. If D'Anna was mafia, this could be an attempt to make oneself's vote record clean to the eyes of investigators. Other than this, nothing much suspicious on this day.

Day 4: S~V~S voted Lorab:

S~V~S was extremely certain at Day 4 that Long Con was Admiral Cain. At such an early date, in which no one could have amassed enough material to narrow down people to their roles, this kind of certainty is abnormal - and it leads me to believe that her rolepower (or the rolepower of some mafioso with whom she has BTSC) is to discover her target's role. Nonetheless, she jumped on the Lorab wagon, and was the 10th person to vote for her.

On this very day, JaggedJimmyJay decided to get everyone to do GTH reads. Here are S~V~S's reads:

red = mafia
black = good

a2thezebra (now Rabbit)
bea
Black Rock
Dex: dead
DrWilgy (CYLON)
Drumbeats
Epignosis (CYLON)
G-Man
Glorfindel: dead (CYLON)
JJJay
juliets: dead
Long Con: dead
LoRab: dead (CYLON)
Matt
Marmot: dead
ObscureAllure
Polo
Ricochet
Scotty: dead
Sig
Silverwolf
SokothQultuq
Spacedaisy: dead
Vompatti: dead

____

On Night Four is when I started to suspect S~V~S.

This exchange jumped to my eyes:

S~V~S wrote:

Polo wrote:I'll repeat myself: I'd rather go after Cavil and his pack before doing anything with regards to Cain.

Do you know who he is?

Let's do it. Give me a name.

S~V~S was the only person here who argued with me on this. It's a major red flag in my book. By showing confidence at asking me to give her a name, she wanted me to forget any possibility of her being Cavil, but this little trick was her big mistake.

She somehow KNEW Long Con was Cain, she had suspected him before and definitely had him checked before convincing everyone he was Cain and that Cain should die before Cavil, thus freeing her and her mates from the disadvantages of martial law.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 64#p279764
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 50#p279750
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 55#p279755

By being the only person to actually confront me on this, she revealed 3 things: 1. She was dead certain Long Con was Cain, and this must have required the act of a rolechecker; 2. She showed how martial law was against her interests; 3. She revealed that it would be more beneficial to her to lynch a Cylon-hating human than to try to find and kill a Cylon before doing anything with regards to martial law.

Martial law could only be bad to the civ team if the civ team decided to go after the good Cylons. Nobody in this game had an intent to lynch the good Cylons like Epignosis, so martial law could have been ignored until we had killed the Cavil faction, after which we could lynch Long Con.

S~V~S needed Long Con gone ASAP more than anyone on this game. She is part of the Cavil faction; more than simply that, she is John Cavil.


Day 5: S~V~S voted DrWilgy:
I believe Dr. Wilgy is civ, and that he's either Caprica Six or Leoben Conoy.

Day 6: S~V~S voted sig:
Sig is someone I've read as mafia before but who I've begun to read as a civ.

Day 7: I don't know who she voted for on day 7 - I forgot to add that day's votes onto my spreadsheet. Can anybody give me a hand on this?

S~V~S is John Cavil. She did things because she is John Cavil. She bussed a teammate or two because she is John Cavil. She wanted Long Con gone because she is John Cavil. Therefore she is John Cavil.

That's what I got from this.

Don't forget the part where I disagreed with him.And the other parts where I disagreed with him.

Linki @ Polo, no, I read it, and that is exactly what I got from it. You totally disagree with where my head is coming from, therefore I must be bad. And if Epi, OA & I were a baddie team together, we would have won already

S~V~S wrote:@Polo

I voted Glorfindel, and I said repeatedly that I had no info on LC. I have been playing mafia with LC since 2009, though. So I just *knew* something was up with him before Cain was revealed, and once Cain was revealed, I knew what it was.

Sorry if you disagreed with me that Cain was a priority, but it is harder to the civs to win if they need civ cylons dead. And I am sure he had another kill or something up his sleeve that he held back for a night or two so people trusted him.

I disagreed with you, so I am bad? I confronted you becasue I thought you were dead wrong, and still think so.

And you know what, I believe Wilgy is civ now, too. But on that day I did not. And you think sig is good, so I am bad becasue I suspect him?

Basically your case boils down to "SVS disagrees with me, and had the nerve to confront me in the thread about it, she is bad."

ObscureAllure wrote:And there are two number 8s.

G-Man wrote:As I see no reason not to, vote = Glorfindel

Burning bridges on your way out is considered poor form.

S~V~S wrote:

Polo wrote:I'll repeat myself: I'd rather go after Cavil and his pack before doing anything with regards to Cain.

Do you know who he is?

Let's do it. Give me a name.

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:Vompatti has been shot for treason.

May he rest in peace.

So say we all.

Do Polo next.

S~V~S wrote:

Polo wrote:"Christ, what an asshole".

I hope he's either mafia or vanilla.

Please don't say that, it is not nice

Ricochet wrote:

Polo wrote:I'm voting S~V~S because I think she's mafia. Post coming in the next hour.

Wait, didn't you do this thing on Day Seven, ie voting early, promising case l8er, as well? Tunnelling and punching the vote card early? Hmm.

S~V~S wrote:

Polo wrote:So say we all!

I finally have some time to contribute. I've got a really sore throat and I coughed blood a few minutes ago, but I'm going to the doctor today to get that checked.

First, I need to quote this again.

Golden wrote:

Hello my lovely sortie finishers; GOOD LYNCH ; my pings: 1)bea, 2)Rico, 3)Drumbeats, maybe Polo, BR, and 3J too; ask me anything, I’ll try to answer.

Nah, all of those people (including me, of course) look civ to me. This could be the work of a deceased Cylon (like nutella) trying to divert attention from the actual danger.

Based on mentions of the sorties & the custom smiley, I am thinking this is not Nutella. I think Epi hit the nail on the head here, this is Indiglo.



I need to get back to work.

Vompatti wrote:I suspect:

1. rabbit, because LC and zebra can't both be civs.
2. SVS, because she tried to prevent me from sinking the Klingon submarine.
3. myself, because I haven't been modkilled yet.

Golden wrote:

Hello my lovely sortie finishers; GOOD LYNCH ; my pings: 1)bea, 2)Rico, 3)Drumbeats, maybe Polo, BR, and 3J too; ask me anything, I’ll try to answer.

Golden wrote:

Thank goodness for the Wills of the Dead Act because Epignosis is not who he appears to be!

Living an unnaturally long life, the Great Deceiver will arise and vanquishing her fairer twin, on the octave, lead the people in error to calamity.

Golden wrote:

Been generally keeping up. Why exactly is Bea still not lynched? And, really, that’s a bad cylon you lynched just then.

Golden wrote:

Indiglo was probably Roslin. The prez only picks from small list of laws. Do not kill rabbit, Elmer Fudd. Kill sig kill sig kill dog!

Golden wrote:

Im very much alive, but not evil - kill John Cavil asap. Im not keeping up with the thread, so I have no suspects.

S~V~S wrote:

Polo wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Well, thanks, I guess. I still see you in here now, so no time like the present, but if you want to keep waiting, OK

Your last post was 6:24 AM, it is now 7:27. I would think an hour should be enough. That must be one hell of a dossier.

I usually leave this browser tab open when I leave home, and almost never reboot my PC. Sorry

Our tray reboot is set to 30 minutes. I don't know that anyone else would know that but MP & I, though. So now all of you know it too For future reference.

If a person shows in tray as being here, that means they could be showing up to 30 minutes after leaving. Not an hour. I am just really looking forward to it, you have been talking about it for days. So don't blame me for being impatient. A word of advice, the bigger the build up, the better the denoument should be. Waiting too long, you lose your momentum, and your revelation risks looking anti climactic.

S~V~S wrote:Well, thanks, I guess. I still see you in here now, so no time like the present, but if you want to keep waiting, OK

Your last post was 6:24 AM, it is now 7:27. I would think an hour should be enough. That must be one hell of a dossier.

S~V~S wrote:So say we all. Just in case, Lol.

Dex wrote:The Defence of DrWilgy

I'm going to try this one last time before the votes start to fall in earnest

1. I am as certain that Wilgs is a civ cylon as I was the LC was Cain. You'll recall that I pushed hard for an LC lynch. Now that Cain is dead, everyone's life is better. Particularly civ cylons.[/i

2. My belief that Wilgs is a civ cylon is not a hunch or gut-based. It is a logical deduction that follows from his posts. The only question is rather or not Wilgs was being honest. I think in context its quite apparent he was. I'd say he's been perfectly honest ever since he declared.

3. For those posting that Wilgs can't be a civ cylon because Caprica 6 is the last one and the math doesn't work, you are incorrect. Leoben is also a civ cylon.

A. He sided against Cavil in the cylon rebellion, along with D'Anna, Caprica 6, and Athena. He also aids Roslin during Gaeta's mutiny, and has a Starbuck connection. He is not part of the Cavil clique, group, faction, or whatever you want to call it.
B. It makes more sense in terms of game balance that this role be civ.

Since Wilgy never claimed to be Caprica 6 and has frequently pointed this out, I'm guessing he is Leoben. The only people with an interest in killing Leoben are Cavil's faction and any humans who still want to kill all cylons.

Remember this conversation, Polo? You were part of it. Maybe your hyperfocus on me made you forget it.

Let me ask you again; is it everyone who wanted to lynch Cain, or is it just me?

Link I, yeah, could I get that dossier please?

bea wrote:

Polo wrote:

bea wrote:I thought just dovel and cavil?

By Dovel you mean Doral?

And isn't Conoy mafia?

Yes - doral - I'm sorry - it's the very end of a very long and and emotionally stressful day.

By conoy I assume you mean Cavil? Yes. Evil and mafia are the same thing to me. Are they not to you?


OK - I'm going to bed if I'm making this many mistakes and such.

bea wrote:I thought just dovel and cavil?

Polo wrote:So, only 3 Cylons alive, right? Gaius, please check S~V~S!

Epignosis wrote:

Polo wrote:

Epignosis wrote:What distinguishes a bad Cylon from a good one, and how do you determine that?

A bad Cylon is a Cylon whose win conditions should be incompatible with those of the good Humans, who need Cavil's faction dead.

A good Cylon is a Cylon who shares win conditions with humans and/or who need Cavil's faction dead.

You only answered the first question. I've underlined the part you've missed.

Epignosis wrote:What distinguishes a bad Cylon from a good one, and how do you determine that?

Glorfindel wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:All that being said, I'm gonna have a hard time not voting for Glorfindel today. Yes, I think there's a very good chance he's Caprica Six, but there's still some definite ambiguity as to her motives, and I have some doubts that they line up with the civilian ones.

Also, I think that lynching Glorfindel would be the most educational move at this point. He's the new hot topic around here, and revealing his ultimate orientation would definitely shine some light on some personal motivations.

And THIS is EXACTLY the reason why I have little hope that we can win this game The closest thing we have to a confirmed Townie in this game (in my opinion) doing EXACTLY what I've been warning against Can you people not read anything I say?

Somebody wants to lynch you and therefore civilians can't win?

How is INH the closest thing to a confirmed civilian?

If you are good, can you not find a way to prove your point without breaking the rules?

My suggestion would be to stop with the five page essays. I guarantee you most people aren't reading them.

Lunch is over Epi so I will have to answer your questions later (on the way home or tonight). And by that, I mean answer them to the best of my ability. I am so constrained here by what I feel I can't say, it's ridiculous. I have a question for you though - how does me being good help me get around the rules? I'd love to know, it might help me lots, thanks!

Tell us who needs to be lynched and why.

That's all there is to it.

My previous No. 1 suspect (Black Rock) appears to have given up the ghost. Without a substitute, I expect it's pointless to pursue that lead as after an appropriate period of time, I assume she will just be modkilled.

I confess that I'm highly conflicted about DrWilgy. Originally, I suspected him on the basis of my interaction with my good Buddy IAWY early in the game - it was clear that something was up. After he came forward as a Cylon EoD5, I figured that it was just that he was a Cylon that was the reason for my initial suspicion and dismissed him as a fellow Cylon and went cold on my suspicion of him. On it's own, I'd be prepared to almost leave it at that. But then there is the bizarre interaction with our friend Polo at EoD5 that I raised the following Night phase. Polo who until then appeared to be on top of his game seemed unduly rattled at that point. Following EoD6, I accused Polo and Dex of being Mafia buddies plotting my demise in the hours following my non-lynching and they were quite adamant that they'd both vote for me this Day phase. Dex does (gotta admire a man that sticks to his word <insert eye-rolling smilie>) but Polo goes off and votes S-V-S? It just seems rather odd behaviour to me - although by Day 7 in this game, nothing should surprise me...

I have said this before and I agree that something is up with Drumbeats. If you look at his early posts (although he's not been playing on this site long) he clearly has a good grasp on how to play these games. The thing that first made me suspicious of him was the GTH reads that he posted hours after 3J went through that exercise early on Day 6. It looked to me like his reads were a 'knock off' of what the majority were saying.

The most suspicious character to me though is ObscureAllure. It's a bit hard to follow her many insanified posts but she claimed a connection between DrWilgy and I for which there is no basis in fact as far as I can see (when I was saying he was suspicious for much of five Day phases) Then there was this post:

ObscureAllure wrote:I Have been right about Nutella, LoRab, Wigly all being cylons and was right about LC being bad and you have NO meta to go off of for me and I'm a top suspect.

Firstly, Zebs thought she was bad and that carries some weight with me. Again, she is another of the anti-Cylon clique yet I don't recall that she ever claimed? I'm happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong about that. At the time all Cylon claiming was going on, I was satisfied with her explanation but in retrospect and looking at her attitude towards Cylons, it all seems rather odd to me.

I know I'm sounding kinda useless here but I don't know with any certainty the identity of the Mafia team other than the suspicions that I've voiced. I'm fairly certain though that if there are a couple of Cylons that ARE Mafia, they'll be driving the gullible amongst us on a campaign against all the remaining Cylons (Town aligned) to distract us from them and that to me, looks exactly like what ObscureAllure is doing.

Epignosis wrote:I don't believe Polo reasonably thinks he's getting S~V~S lynched today, which makes me question the sincerity of his vote and his "I'll talk about it later" business.

I also don't believe this:

Polo wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Dex wrote:

bea wrote:Dex - again. Explain it to me like I'm dumb
Cuz I really . Why Wilgy civ and not glor? What am I missing?

My Wilgy case is here.

My case against Glorfindel has three legs. 1) His repetitive but generally contentless posts. 2) He was the last non-declarer to declare before the law was repealed, and did it to save himself, a cylon attribute. 3) By process of elimination. I believe I know who the last two anti-Cavil cylons are. They're not Glorfindel.

Ricochet wrote:In non-specific words that you are able (or allowed) to express, how are we to interpret the notion that you've "ID'd" specific roles / players?

From posts in the thread I believe I've deduced the two roles mentioned above. It's just a personal belief. I have no info or role power.

Question: Is Wilgy on the good side and within the margin of those two anti-Cavil roles, in your process of elimination?

Question 2: Wilgy and you had a small banter a while back on the use of the word "God" in certain context. Should I look into interpreting anything out of this, in your opinion?

Polo wrote:Folks, Glorfindel's survival by claiming last day is enough to warrant his lynch. There is no plausible way he's not a Cylon.

S~V~S is mafia Cylon and we need her lynched ASAP.

That's pretty generic, though. What makes Glorfindel to you a bad Cylon?

Also, if SVS is mafia Cylon, do you think she would have bussed nutella Day Two the way she did?

Because we've come to know who are the civ Cylons: Epi and Wilgy.

Yes, she would; because doing that would rid her of ANY attention whatsoever - exactly what a mafia boss needs. I believe she's John Cavil.

S~V~S and I share very few commonalities, both in real life and when it comes to approaching Mafia...

...however, she and I do share this: We are loath to divest our team of numbers, abilities, and personality. She may correct me if I am wrong, but, while we don't disagree that it's a valid tactic, we both view it as a diminishing the challenge of the game and depriving teammates of a chance to flex their muscles, thereby becoming better players themselves.

Again, S~V~S, correct me if I am wrong on any of that.

I don't see S~V~S chucking nutella out of airlock. If she is bad and did do this, I don't think she did it intentionally (i.e., I don't think she knew nutella was bad with her).

Some big named int'l law fellas from the Swiss Prosecution Service came to my town this weekend for a conference on international money laundering and my professor asked me to be his translator.

bea wrote:

Polo wrote:I am standing by my word and I'm going to vote now: vote S~V~S.
I
I'm perfectly fine with a Glorfindel lynch and I endorse it too, but I'll try to convince you all to vote for S~V~S.

I have to say wait wot?? You just mention that you find her evol at the start of the day - you give NO reason for thinking it - vote her and say "I'll come back later and explain and hopefully convince you."

Sir - I'm sorry but the burden of proof is on you here. From where I sit the way to do this at the beginning of the day phase is to actually present a case - then vote.

From where I sit - you can comfortably endorse or not endorse a glor lynch at this point depending on what the wind says - and also - maybe make a case that svs is bad and no matter how weak said case is - you can say "well I stood by my beliefs before I stated why I believed them." I can't possibly be bad for that.

THIS right here makes me suspish of you. Not that you suspect svs - that you said you thought she was bad, made no attempt to make a case on her- maybe promised it later - and expect that maybe you will convince the rest of us. like less than 12 hours into a 48 hour cycle. This at BEST implys you have info and are doing it the wrong way. By my standing at worst it means you are trying to throw shade and hoping eveyone will gloss over and roll with it.

Please tell me where I'm wrong because tbh, I dislike both those scenarios.

Ricochet wrote:You've voted very early throughout a number of cycles, Polo. Is it in your nature or is there any other impulse for you to do so?

Ricochet wrote:

Dex wrote:

bea wrote:Dex - again. Explain it to me like I'm dumb
Cuz I really . Why Wilgy civ and not glor? What am I missing?

My Wilgy case is here.

My case against Glorfindel has three legs. 1) His repetitive but generally contentless posts. 2) He was the last non-declarer to declare before the law was repealed, and did it to save himself, a cylon attribute. 3) By process of elimination. I believe I know who the last two anti-Cavil cylons are. They're not Glorfindel.

Ricochet wrote:In non-specific words that you are able (or allowed) to express, how are we to interpret the notion that you've "ID'd" specific roles / players?

From posts in the thread I believe I've deduced the two roles mentioned above. It's just a personal belief. I have no info or role power.

Question: Is Wilgy on the good side and within the margin of those two anti-Cavil roles, in your process of elimination?

Question 2: Wilgy and you had a small banter a while back on the use of the word "God" in certain context. Should I look into interpreting anything out of this, in your opinion?

Polo wrote:Folks, Glorfindel's survival by claiming last day is enough to warrant his lynch. There is no plausible way he's not a Cylon.

S~V~S is mafia Cylon and we need her lynched ASAP.

That's pretty generic, though. What makes Glorfindel to you a bad Cylon?

Also, if SVS is mafia Cylon, do you think she would have bussed nutella Day Two the way she did?

Dex wrote:I'm off to the ballpark to catch a game and won't be back before game-dawn, so I just wanted to make an if-I-die-before-I-wake post.

My intention is to look to players particularly hostile and aggressive towards anti-Cavil cylons, Epi, LoRab and Wilgy. It looks to me like the Cavil cylons have a particular interest in killing them, like they may not need to kill all the humans, but they definitely need to kill them.

There were technically four non-claimers when the Cylon Amnesty law was repealed, but practically only two. Epi doesn't count because why bother, and Vomp doesn't count because Vomp. That leaves Rico and Obscure, both of which I am highly suspicious of. Rico wouldn't declare because it was somehow not in the best civ interests for him to claim unless he was the last one to do it, which was never going to happen. Obscure wouldn't declare out of fear of punishment for triggering an event, which is balderdash.

My strongest civ reads are Insert (based largely on Silver's play), S~V~S, and the Marmot. Protect and nourish them.

I would add Matt to that list, but some of his ideas, for example that sig/glorf = Gaius/Cap 6 are unhelpful. I don't think he's being malevolent; I just think he likes coming up with ideas. I would include Polo except for his focused insistence that we should kill Cavil before Cain, even though we have no idea who Cavil is and even after Cain was already dead. And I'd have included Drum except for his Ahabish need to kill Wilgy.

Finally, please do not let up on lynching Glorfindel tomorrow.

Dex wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:You keep saying anti-Cavil -- do you literally mean "not aligned with Cavil" or "on Cavil's team"? You called Glorfindel anti-Cavil too.

I'm trying to come up with replacement terms for civ and mafia, which I think are murky in this game. We have two sets of cylons, though; the Cavil faction (mafia), and the anti-Cavil faction (civ).

Glorfindel is Cavil faction.

S~V~S wrote:

Dex wrote:

Matt wrote:

Ricochet wrote:What are you seeing? We already have two potential Cylons playing the good game card. Begin your sentence with "I think" and then lay it out for us.

I see sig and Glorfy town reading the eff out of each other when looking through their ISO's. With the exception of sig "questioning" Glorf early on, they have been mutually strong town reading one another. Multiple times.

People now seem to think sig is Gaius.

Derp.

Gaius doesn't check for alignment, he checks for cylon, if that's what you're implying. I seem to be talking "near certainty" a lot in this game, but Glorf is Cavil faction.

Yeah this.

Ricochet wrote:

Polo wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:So what are you waiting for in this whole claim drama, Rico?

In the drama that was? For the plan to be fulfilled and everyone (relevant i.e. besides Epignosis, I guess) to have claimed.

In the drama that is? Nothing, seems irrelevant now.

What the frak, man? Just claim tomorrow

You guys still want me to claim for an amnesty act that's been repealed? Such quality drumming.

Can't wait for Matt to drop by and demand me this thing himself.

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:So what are you waiting for in this whole claim drama, Rico?

In the drama that was? For the plan to be fulfilled and everyone (relevant i.e. besides Epignosis, I guess) to have claimed.

In the drama that is? Nothing, seems irrelevant now.

Dex wrote:

Polo wrote:I get your point; at the moment, removing Cavil from the game was contextually optimal. But imagine this: wouldn't it be better to kill the mafia (Cavil's faction), who nightkills civs and has other maleficial powers, and then go after Cain in order to eliminate martial law in order to restore wincons back to original? We've been set back one day because of that, at least, because Cain could have had a night power that is bad to cylons.

Theoretically, yes. Non contextually, yes. Hypothetically, yes. Practically, no.

Did you prefer things when martial law was in effect?

Dex wrote:You asked me the same question and I gave you the same answer as did S~V~S. The finer points of the debate deserve more attention. You seem to only regard the Cain or Cavil first question non contextually; in a vacuum, which is the greater evil, Cain or Cavil? You are dismayed when anybody answers anything but Cavil. But S~V~S and I were coming from a context where we were fairly certain who Cain was - and we were right - and had no idea who Cavil was. It could have taken us all game to find Cavil; we had Cain in hand.

And I'm not sure what you mean by the mafia boss "being more dangerous to mafia than to civs". That may be true per se, Cavil wants all humans dead (I presume) and Cain didn't want any humans dead. But you overlook the fact that Cain made civ victory twice as difficult by requiring twice the number of lynches to win. And that's just the numerical disadvantage. Martial law was depriving us of half the cylons as aliies, and denying us whatever powers they had that might be of great usefulness to the civ cause. Possibly even, for example, finding Cavil.

What you are apparently preferring here is that we spend an indeterminate amount of time prioritizing a search for a particular role with half the chance to win the game than to take out first a known target that will double our chances of winning.

If anybody had even the slightest inkling who Cavil was, we may have answered you differently. Taking out a target who we had pretty much identified who was having a serious negative effect on a civ victory was a far, far better choice.

Ricochet wrote:Ok, what the frak happened?

S~V~S wrote:

Polo wrote:I'll repeat myself: I'd rather go after Cavil and his pack before doing anything with regards to Cain.

Do you know who he is?

Let's do it. Give me a name.

S~V~S wrote:

Polo wrote:I don't. Do you think Cain is a bigger threat to town than Cavil?

I think Cain is a threat, yes, Martial law is not a good thing. Trashing peoples win cons is not a good thing. And I *think* I know who he is. Which is the salient point.

S~V~S wrote:

Polo wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Thanks for the reminder.

Polo wrote:I'm not ever going to give people a civ pass for claiming, but be damn sure that the evil Cylons aren't okay with losing their first lynch immunity.
Most people have already used up their claim; do you want to let Cavil and his toaster pals get the upper hand? Frakking hell.

If I were an evildoer, I'd be perfectly okay playing ball. Why? Because it buys me credibility with people like you. You are operating under the assumption that the people who aren't claiming must be bad because...well, they didn't claim! Even if you say you are not walking that path, you are. And your enthusiasm here sounds forced to me.

Say, tell me more about this "first" lynch immunity.

Here:

Golden wrote:A new law has been passed.

Cylon Amnesty Act: Any person may publicly admit to being a cylon and, if the declaration is true, they will have immunity from the lynch for that day. Once a person has outed themselves as a cylon, they cannot do it a second time.

They'll be immune to being lynched on the day of the declaration. That's what I meant; on the next day onward they'll be lynchable.

S~V~S wrote:

Polo wrote:The Amnesty Law can be ignored if everyone claims Cylon.

What does that have to do with we all now need Epi dead to win?It isn't fair and it's wrong.

I don't want Cains win cons, I want the win cons I had back. I want to defeat Cavil, and I want to do it free from a dictator. Who probably has other things up her evil sleeve, tbh.

Lynch Cavil and then we lynch Cain. I said nothing about lynching Epi.

And do you think you know who Cavil is? You say this like it is a simple thing. Did someone forget to send me the "Who IS Cavil" memo?

Lets see what happens in the night; if the win cons changeback I will back right the fuck off (see SIlver! I said "fuck" ). If they don't then as far as I am concerend, a bird in the hand etc. becasue Cain has to go since who knows what she will do next under martial law.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dex wrote:Except we can't lynch him. How the heck do we get off New Caprica?

We can't lynch Glorfindel? Why not? His amnesty expired on Day 6 and the act is repealed anyway.

That he didn't die actually confirms him as a cylon, so the only question is which type -- We have about 800 people in this game that appear to be near-confirmed cylons to include the dead and there's no way they're all good, so I think he emerges from the non-lynch looking significantly worse.

sig wrote:Polo has been a main pusher of the lets lynch no claimer thing, which can be a scum move to lynch people. He also repeatedly asks people certain questions.

Polo wrote:Bea, what do you think of sig, Glorfindel and DrWilgy?

Polo wrote:Rico, what do you think of Bea, Glorfindel, Sig and DrWilgy?

Polo wrote:What do you folks think of Sig, Glorfindel and DrWilgy? I think they may be mafia.

Here are a few examples and it has been the same three for awhile, then after Wilgy's claim he 180 on that and drops Wilgy to push Zebra, however the day he wanted to lynch Zebra she was off the poll. Today he did a safe vote and didn't go for either of the end wagons even though he suspected both myself and Glorfindel.

I believe he's a potential teammate of either Wilgy or Zebra and was distancing.

I really want to lynch the outted cylon who is most likely evil tomorrow Wilgy however, would be fine with a Zebra/Rabbit vote because of reasons I've already stated.

JJJ pinged me awhile back, but I can't recall why. I also still subscribe to my Daisy was killed for pushing Wilgy idea and it should be noted Gman tried to make me sound crazy for thinking this as well as for thinking I could've been the kill target.

linki: WAAAAT!!!!!! Wilgy trying to throw shade on the POTC who he is saying could be mafia. Like seriously? That is super scummy Especially Considering he is saying he is a good cylon

DrWilgy wrote:I still can't find where Glorf has the lead. Can someone please explain it like I'm 5? after then I'll actually dip, need to go get food.

Polo wrote:I think Glorfindel received the most votes.


Glorfindel:

Silverwolf (3), Dex (8), insertnamehere (20), Matt (21), G-Man (24), sig (30) + Vompatti

Vompatti wrote:vote 2: glorfindel.

Silverwolf's vote is invalid because she was replaced. Total votes for Glorfindel = 6.


sig:

a2thezebra (2), Metalmarsh89 (19), S~V~S (25), JaggedJimmyJay (26), DrumBeats (27), rabbit8 (29)

Zebra's vote is invalid because she was also replaced. Total votes for sig = 5.

sig wrote:

Polo wrote:There is absolutely no info in any of Golden's other posts that explains why Gaius is now POTC.

WHy would there be?

Vompatti wrote:vote 2: glorfindel.