The Syndicate

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:20 am Dizzy does too like being scum

Lately, I've liked neither. I get more fatigued being mafia. I only like it after it's done, when I have won. Mostly.
I still like town rands many, many times better.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:13 am Here Dizzy, have a cat to pet

Thanks!

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:15 am It's funny that Dizzy think's he is more in his scum range now than Days 1-2. I think the opposite is true.

Well, I know myself better lol

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:17 am I can't justify my Boq townread right now and I have questionmarks but I don't think he's actively teamed with JJJ.

I think they can be teamed.
I earlier mentioned Jimmay's early buddying of Boq. This is something I can't quite make fit. I should go back to look at it, but would appreciate eyes on if it looks weird that Jimmay is mafia and Boq is town, given Jimmay's emotional buddying. I tend to think Jimmay wouldn't aggressively buddy like that if that was the case, however this might be naive AND I don't actually remember exactly how the buddying went anyway.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:11 amHEY!

Why havent you pat the cat?

I don't own a cat and I haven't been outside yet today to find one.

I should go outside and mull things over.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:10 amkeep reading. I was baiting to see if anyone would jump on you with me but nothing happened. Doesnt mean you are in the clear but it shows me that no one here right now thinks you are wolf or is willing to try to make it look that way.

Weird.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:03 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:00 am "I'll stop my Marmot tinfoil now"

*Contemplates whether I should bother to meta dive to look if Marmot asks a million billion questions more as town or mafia, because holy shit every other post is a question about clarification or explanation*

Would you like some game links?
Town or scum?
Or both perhaps?
Would you like coffee with that?
Do you think it'll help?
Would you have fun?
Have you pet a cat today?
Why'd you drop the paranoia finally?
Why are your reads so AHHHHHHHHH?
What do you think of Rond's lazy read?
Have you played mafia before?
What's your take on determinism?
Can I buy you a coffee?
What do you think of this Day 3 thus far?
Do you feel you're in your scum range?
Do you feel I'm in my scum range?
Do you feel JJJ is in his scum range?
Where do we come from?
Why are we here?
Where do we go when we die?
Is this enough questioning?

Yes.
Both. I've played with you a ton so shouldn't be a problem. But like, I feel like I've been mafia against you a ton lately.
Yes.
Maybe.
No.
No, sadly.
No idea.
Because the game is AHHHHH and no mafia are dead.
Rondo is lazy.
Yes.
TBD.
YES!
I think we are closer to chopping mafia than we were the first two days and that it's important that we do so.
On D1 and D2, I wasn't. This day I probably am.
That is what I'm struggling with while I feel I shouldn't.
Yes.
Moms and dads.
To play mafia.
To spec. Bless.
Yes.

"I'll stop my Marmot tinfoil now"

*Contemplates whether I should bother to meta dive to look if Marmot asks a million billion questions more as town or mafia, because holy shit every other post is a question about clarification or explanation*

I think Fingers is probably town.
I'm done tinfoiling Marmot.
Rondo town.
Ender AHHHHHHHH, still want to say town. I have a really hard time walking from this.

Nate and Lucy are independent and looks town, thought I guess there's a chance I'm wrong.

Creature is not inspiring. Still think maybe not with Alison or Jimmay, but I had a different view on D2. I don't know.

Alison/Jimmay/Boq left - there's definitely something rotten here. But Alison/Boq probably not.

My reads don't make sense.

Sigh. I'll come back to all of this later.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:52 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:50 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:49 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:44 amEnder said it too.

Yeah, and it's not an unreasonable thought to have imo. I also thought Wilgy could be teamed with Both Alison and you, and I didn't quite trust either of you.

If Ender is mafia you need to be punted into the sun.

You just answered me that Ender/Dizzy are not aligned when I asked for anti-alignments. Did that change right now?

I don't care much if I'm punted into the sun if Ender is mafia and flips tbh

My mistake @JaggedJimmyJay
You said me/Marmot, not me/Ender. I stand corrected

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:50 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:49 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:44 amEnder said it too.

Yeah, and it's not an unreasonable thought to have imo. I also thought Wilgy could be teamed with Both Alison and you, and I didn't quite trust either of you.

If Ender is mafia you need to be punted into the sun.

You just answered me that Ender/Dizzy are not aligned when I asked for anti-alignments. Did that change right now?

I don't care much if I'm punted into the sun if Ender is mafia and flips tbh

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:48 am ALSO I PASSED ALL MY AP TESTS

Congrats tbh

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:44 amEnder said it too.

Yeah, and it's not an unreasonable thought to have imo. I also thought Wilgy could be teamed with Both Alison and you, and I didn't quite trust either of you.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:45 am Also why were you pleading for me to townread you and work with you Dizzy, and then asking why I dropped my paranoia of you when I chose to?

We didn't even have any interaction between those two statements from you.

Because I'm struggling a lot here. I want you to town read me if you are town. I want to know if I'm just being stupid by having creepy feelings, which I'm pretty sure I am. Us not having interaction is not relevant for what's going on in my head though.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to land on dropping my tinfoil here. That's really what I'm working through, I think.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:43 amWhy do I have a high chance of being mafia?

How am I breaking out of my mafia meta?

Because both kills kind of indicates you. You could fit with any of Boq/Alison/Jimmay. Ominous game state things.

Your depth of analysis is good, and you have said specific things I don't expect you to as mafia.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:40 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:43 am I think his point was that he was worried that you were teamed with Wilgy. I think Marmot made a similar point. They will correct me if I'm wrong, I hope.

Is this a good reason to vote out Wilgy?

No. But he also did not say that was the only reason, which is quite obvious. He said it was quite the waffle vote iirc.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:34 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:13 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:11 pm @Marmot Sometimes I feel you should be at least three times more paranoid of me than you seem to be. What do you think?

Never mind. I don't know why I struggle. Game state, you have a high chance of being mafia. Meta wise, you are breaking out of your meta if you are mafia. Does that make sense?

No not really.

What about it doesn't make sense to you?

@JaggedJimmyJay Do you think Boq's ego is big enough/can handle things like "I was mafia, I would win here" on D2?

I still think Jimmay is probably just mafia, and that view hasn't changed.

I'm almost certain the three of Boq/Alison/Jimmay contains at the very least 1 mafia. I do not see team combinations or individual scum reads enough outside of those that would work.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:13 am If I wanted I could theorize about a pretty clear-cut mafia agenda for Dizzy right now.

He doesn't feel like mafia. I'm still chewing on that. There may be nobody better at projecting the right vibes when in the wrong alignment than this guy, but the feeling is still there.

Was going to ask you about this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:10 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:02 am What are your possible teams and worlds right now?
Do you have anti-alingments?

Do you think Ender/Boq is a team for example?

Who would be likely to kill Sean when he just had led a mischop on Wilgy?

This reflects a difference of approach between us right now. After an 0 for 2 start to the game, the only thing that matters is eliminating mafia right now, and as such I am operating less in a world of interactions and less in a world of POE and more in a world of direct solving of individual people to make the single best vote I can.

Off-hand given recent material, these are some dissociations that may work (I have not dug with this in mind since the chart):

Dizzy/Marmot
Ender/Alison
lucy/Marmot

Off the top of my head I wouldn't discount Ender/Boq. The former essentially ignored the latter as a candidate when he opened this phase with me at the center of his suspicion.

I think it would be easier for me to answer your last question as a "who would not" -- I really don't think the Wilgy chop has to be a huge deal in that kill dialogue. The levels of wifom are elevating a bit much here anyway. I don't think Creature is likely to endorse a Seanzie kill. Maybe lucy wouldn't.

It's basically the same as your interaction analysis, and one can potentially reasonably clear people from it. But sure.

I think I agree with your point on Creature wrt Sean kill

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:09 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:07 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:04 am Ender has 30 minutes before I slam on his wagon and go to bed

You're wanting to vote Ender? Why?

I dont want to vote ender. But he said he would provide a list by now. I will not likely have time to vote tomorrow morning so if he doesnt follow through with his reads and cases so I can gauge if he is town. I am more inclined to shoot first ask questions later. He would do the same to me if I promised something and didnt deliver

I think that's bad idea, because I think you're both town. And we need every vote on deck. But I can't decide your vote for you. I just think that is a very weak reasoning to vote at this point. We need to hit mafia.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:04 am Ender has 30 minutes before I slam on his wagon and go to bed

You're wanting to vote Ender? Why?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:00 am As a general statement: I think that some of the broader game state concerns connected to the Seanzie kill may be disrespectful to Seanzie's town game. He was broadly town read by most of the field, and he was a firecracker. Sometimes that's all you need to explain a kill. I do think there's room for some morphing of the game state, and my current posture on Boq reflects that I sense a problem of some kind -- but I don't really have the view that it's a kill that must change everything.

What are your possible teams and worlds right now?
Do you have anti-alingments?

Do you think Ender/Boq is a team for example?

Who would be likely to kill Sean when he just had led a mischop on Wilgy?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:56 amI don't recall an instance of seeing that in a past game from fingersplints. As a policy that's not something I tend to allow to move any needles, and I can't think of a good reason here.

I think it's a form of AtE that can be town indicative for her, because I don't know if she's the kind of player who bothers with that kind of AtE if she really is mafia getting a lot of heat. I don't think she'd care to. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

@Boquise Why are you always waiting so long before you place a vote? Is that normal for you?

I'm a little bit worried that Creature and Fingers are both town, and making themselves huge targets.

At the same time I really need and want a lot more from @Creature

I'm also worried that @NateTheLesser is holding onto a PoE of LHF that I don't really think is correct.

So that is some game state worries.
If we are to have a chance at all this game, we probably need to vote off mafia today.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:53 am I haven't been able to complete other reviews, so that's it for now. I'm not sure that time will permit me to do more this phase, but we'll see.

Do you think Fingers urge to self vote is meaningful to her alignment?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:47 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:21 pm Here are some anti-teamings I plotted down while reading. Ask if they are weird

Finger/Alison
Finger/Creature
Boq/Alison
Ender/Jimmay
Marmot/Finger ?
Creature/Ender EoD1?

can you point to specific examples? Still trying to figure out forum anti pairings? Or is it exactly what I think?

People I don't think are pairs.

Alison went hard on Fingers. (However, I later noted that Alison could easily bus Fingers, though I think she'd generally prefer to keep numbers intact, so the anti-pairing is still pretty valid.)

Finger voted Creature instead of Marmot, when she was in contention for a chop with Marmot. So she actively tried to start a wagon on Creature, and the suspicion has continued. So I don't think these are really paired.

Boq followed my suspicion of Alison and even voted her closer to EoD 2. I don't think he'd be willing to go that direction if they were both wolves. Alison is a strong player and she wasn't around either. Maybe not as strong, but I think it dissociates them.

Ender/Jimmay are obviously not teamed. Jimmay tried to get Ender killed D2.

I don't think Marmot defends a LHF mafia!Fingers if they are teammates. Especially since it looked like Fingers could very well be chopped at that point.

Creature tried to make a wagon on Ender D1. I don't know how much danger that would really be to Ender, but I don't think it looks teamed.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:46 amNo I mean follow him in voting Lucy.

Sheep

Ah, I see, thanks.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:34 amWell I’m resisting the strong urge to do a personal/self vote atm; hopefully cooler heads prevail.

Where does this urge come from btw?

@Marmot What are your full thoughts on Jimmay?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:38 am

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:14 am I wish I had tried to force people who ignored that exercise to do it tbh
I dont think you have been pushed hard or a lot for the cop thing so "I'm sick of hearing" is quite strong language tbh

The exercise was nice because I think it for one shows where one's mind is focused, for two it does show some associatives tbh

The dialogue leaves me rather titled.

Separately, you had said that my choice for a "cop check" on Wilgy played into your decision to vote for Wilgy. That doesn't sit right with me. As I said before, eliminating someone is very different from a hypothetical cop ID, and treating "let's literally flip the player's role card" as a substitute is both opportunistic and it transfers some weight of blame to me for an elimination that I did not vote for.

I think his point was that he was worried that you were teamed with Wilgy. I think Marmot made a similar point. They will correct me if I'm wrong, I hope.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:34 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:22 am

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:20 amYea but you have been getting “more of no content” because of continued posts like this you have made.

Who are you most suspicious of right now?

Do you agree that the Sean kill says something about the game state, or do you glean anything from it at all? You mentioned still reading J town.

Well I’m resisting the strong urge to do a personal/self vote atm; hopefully cooler heads prevail.

Creature.
Cold follow Marmot on Lucy.

I don’t know about the Sean kill. Kills always have some meaning but not necessarily obvious. What a mean by that is Sean is a solid player but not necessarily one who can easily sway the entire thread or one who can be relentless with a suspicion (like Mac) so that kill might not be from someone who he was suspecting. Plus be a set up to look like that. Don’t know.
I do agree it’s interesting choice of kill over the more obvious town, and as I said I do understand the suspicion and paranoia there now just not sure I’m ready to vote there yet

Are you saying Marmot is suspicious here, after Creature? I thought you said Marmot was town just then?

If we don't get mafia today, we likely won't get mafia at all this game.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:35 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:28 am It's hard to keep defending Fingers at this point.

Have you been defending me?
Mentioning, yes.

No, but I have been leaving you alone. I was talking in general terms.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:31 amBut I keep seeing posts like this. How are the things she is doing meaningless and yet she is confusing you too. I dont think there has been a single person in this game that hasnt been thrown by her weirdness at some point. Maybe I am just not in a compassionate mood to give anyone the benefit of the doubt but my god.

Yeah, she's weird. Her observations seems counter to what is actually happening. I don't see how that is AI though.
I town read her for her opening regarding how she was glad she randed town, because she would be a liability as mafia. That seems to invite scrutiny as mafia. Unless she is so confident in her abilities as mafia that she thinks she can fool us all, but that seems counterintuitive then this is her second forum mafia game and the players here are strong. I also liked the persistent interest and questioning of Marmot and Jimmay, it really seemed to come from somewhere. The way she makes reads largely based on how other people are treating her seems towny to me. Her being off beat or weird doesn't seem AI to me, that just seems like her.

Also the Sean thing is meaningless for her alignment for me, because Sean was viewing the thread at that exact time. I almost wrote something to Sean too, but decided not to.

I had a dream that Jimmay + Marmot were mafia, or rather that I read the thread and that become obvious to me. So I guess I feel that at some level.

Jimmay/Boq/Fingers
Jimmay/Marmot/Alison

^Constellations around this. Creature is somewhere in there too, though I worry he's bait. But I do not like his play.
Marmot/Fingers seems unlikely.
All other combinations with the five, I think works?

So unless I'm just wrong and have egg on my face from town reading Ender, this is where I'm at.

It's hard to keep defending Fingers at this point.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:16 am Am I the only one seeing Lucy trying to @ seanzie? I can't tell if its a huge dumb tell or a fake dumb tell. I feel like I am constantly insane when reading Lucy's stuff. Someone stop me from tunneling her because I am getting mad

Nah, that's meaningless. Sean was viewing the thread.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:52 amI want your words on this town list.

Will have to be later

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:20 amYea but you have been getting “more of no content” because of continued posts like this you have made.

Who are you most suspicious of right now?

Do you agree that the Sean kill says something about the game state, or do you glean anything from it at all? You mentioned still reading J town.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:51 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:23 pm One of the teams that would make the most sense and be beautiful right now is Jimmay/Boq/Finger, however I have a reason for town reading Boq that I think is strong, and I also don't really think Finger is mafia.

Jimmay + Marmot also makes a lot of sense, however I town read Marmot.

I'm wondering if Creature is so called threadspewed from Alison and Jimmay. Not sure about this.

That sounds like you're scumreading both Alison and JJJ? Talk me through that.

They are both possible mafia. And if either of them are, their read on Creature reads more like buddying and TMI than partner-y. Probably.

Alison might be ok. Pending on Fingers alignment, her direction for this game has not been a good one. I struggle because her vibe and how she interjects herself in thread is not what I associate with her mafia play. I probably don't have a great sense of her meta though actually.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:48 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:03 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:00 pm I do think you are favouring his logical consistency and state in thread a lot more than I am

I think he would break his scum range hard if he's mafia here tbh

Wut?

He feels like he's out of his scum range to me.

Your tone towards me here is a little weird. You seem more stressed than happy that I'm viewing the game pretty much the same way you are rn?

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:59 amFtr it was how you town read Marmot. It felt very sudden on the wall and I think scum are more prone to dance around/have a sort of progression when they town read a partner

I get that. I'd town read a partner if they're posting well.

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:55 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:32 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:21 pm Here are some anti-teamings I plotted down while reading. Ask if they are weird

Finger/Alison
Finger/Creature
Boq/Alison
Ender/Jimmay
Marmot/Finger ?
Creature/Ender EoD1?

Alison would bus Finger probably

I'm sure there are more anti-alignments, and I'll take suggestions.

Lucy/Marmot probably one

Alison/Nate?

Why do you think this?

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:49 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:24 pm I have gripes with Alison again. Unless Fingers is mafia, she is way off.

@Boquise You're pointing out that you think there's mafia between you/Alison/Jimmay, yet I don't see you go hard in figuring out which one (or both) of Alison and Jimmay that is. What gives?

See it as "Boq has limited time and stressing and also a bit of a coward because what if he is wrong he needs to analyse more aaaaaaaa"

Why should I see it as that? That leaves me very unsatisfied. I'd expect you to dig way more into Jimmay and Alison. You have the chance. You don't seem to have that much time constraints that you can't follow the game. I hear you on the coward thing, but please uncoward yourself if you're town here.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:12 am What the hell is with all this poop talk? What is poop gate?

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

That's a wide enough PoE, that he would still probably work from it. However, he would adjust upon new information/content.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:49 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:21 pm Here are some anti-teamings I plotted down while reading. Ask if they are weird

Finger/Alison
Finger/Creature
Boq/Alison
Ender/Jimmay
Marmot/Finger ?
Creature/Ender EoD1?

Why are Finger/Creature unpaired?

Because Finger chose to vote Creature close to EoD 2, when she was a leading wagon with Marmot. I think it, maybe mildly, makes them unteamed.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:51 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:17 pm I'm not going to tinfoil Marmot anymore. He just sounds awkward when he responds to me sometimes, and that is ok.

I'm not even responding to you right now, what do you mean lol

I've felt like you've sounded awkward sometimes, is what I mean. It's not a very useful comment. Maybe like buddying, but you "should" be more suspicious than that? I don't really think it's useful for me to explore this though

Going to sleep. Will be around tomorrow as well.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:41 am I want to townread Jay's mounting frustration that nobody seems to be reading his walls. (Specifically that he wants people to engage with them, rather than frustration that he's not earning townreads for doing them)

Anyway, catching up on the last few pages since I was last here.

That is an extremely low bar to town read J for. That is completely NAI for him.