The Syndicate

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:22 pm the thing that concerns me the most about the arete/dya stuff is that arete didn't really mention dya much at all until they became the center of conversation, and i don't really see a clear thought process for how arete's read on dya shifted as the game went on

arete voted for dya on https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 03#p803603, but all of arete's thoughts about dya up until that point were: "null/no stance". i don't understand why arete felt inclined to vote someone that they presumably didn't scumread just to get them to answer a question faster - that doesn't really feel like arete's style as a villager from what i've observed from them

i have a similar issue w/this post https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 07#p803607 - arete says that amy being tracker doesn't influence their read on dya even though their read on dya was totally non-existent up until this point. if this post is implying that arete was wolfreading dya, then where did the wolfread on dya come from? they seemed perfectly neutral about them in every post leading up to this point

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 24#p804124 - this post from dya's side of things is really weird too - dya accuses arete of "trying to find reasons to keep them as a wolf", but arete literally did not explicitly wolfread dyachei at any point. their vote on them wasn't even a wolfread, presumably. so why does dya react like that?

arete's progression on dya gets even more confusing when they state a reason to townread dya on https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 68#p804868, and then ends up voting them again on https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 48#p809148 because of their read on vulgard being wolfy "in hindsight"

i dont really feel like arete authentically tried to figure out dyachei's alignment from an uninformed perspective at any point in this game - their wolfread on dya appeared and disappeared out of nowhere, and their overall read on dya seemed to fluctuate with the thread consensus

im still exploring and thinking things over, but i wanted to get these concerns out of the way now

This convinces me some, also because I noticed Dya not talking about Arete, then having them very low on read lists anyway.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:12 pm i still just..... dont think its arete

i think their treatment of dya wasn't teammatey, i think they genuinely hoped syn would end it, i think they made a good solve with good insights on things that look villagery for you/zack/etc, plus marl's legacy is that theyre town

maybe you're right and you can lolnutella postgame but neither i nor dizzy felt like going there today

I think I changed my mind.

Tbh I haven't paid much attention to Arete in this game in general. There's a few things I want to look into.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:37 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:32 pm i think my thing with your dya stuff is like.... in a way it mirrors my own a lot, in that we were both pushing them pretty hard all game but had moments of doubt

but if you were to graph it, my moments of doubt were more frequent but softer, while yours was a sharp 180 and part of me wonders if that extreme-ness was performative
see this is a reasonable query i think

i can def be performative as a wolf but the question is: did i need to be performative?

what was the purpose of me being performative there. i was already treated as lock clear by everyone in the game. all its done is increased doubt on my slot, and i didnt need that to survive as i could kill you and zack and people arent going to go well obv nl is still alive he has to be a wolf because people also v read both you and zack

frankly, if im a wolf the game is v close to a win if i just ride the dya credit train to glory

and i dont do unncessary shit like that at this stage of the game, i am a clinical wolf, i do the most i can with the smallest amount of effort lol. theres no way i would play it up for no gain. there has to be an endgame to everything i do as a wolf and this has zero purpose given my state in thread. if i was being wolfread at the time, i think you being worried over this would be more fair cause i could do that to try and appeal to absuirdity

but i was lock clear and treated as such so...

I kind of want to buy this.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:29 pm mmmm im convincing myself that spf and arete both look ok from dya spew and want to vote in c4/visor

How does Arete look good? I didn't read from D3 out, but early on Dya barely interacted with Arete, but still put them really low in the read list. I should check if Arete had any reaction to this.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:50 pm ya got a similar vibe too

i tried reading the cov game but that thing was basically a mash

unusable

I think Dya used this game to town read c4 quite early. If the game was very different in nature, that's weird. But it probably says more about Dya's alignment than c4's lol

*Thank Sunbae

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:07 pmEvery time you say "Dizzy doesn't bus", and every time I say "but that's not bussing", we explore no new ground. Is there some nuance here I'm not picking up? Like I said, my hand is yours to hold.

That's not what either me or Nut have been saying though. I do bus if it puts my team in a good position. But I don't connect a widely town read teammate to a widely scum read and likely to go down teammate for absolutely no reason when I don't have to. That is outside of what I would do as mafia. The read is just genuine, and in fact a very typical discovery for my town game. I think Sunbae to actually dare to go for it more than I did at the time.

I don't understand why you're voting me or what problems you have with me exactly. So let me know what more I can do, if anything, about that.

bronana wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:06 pm arete hard-defended and "godread" vulgard town, which they've never ever been wrong on before, has otherwise been thoroughly underwhelming (I can't recall them doing much other than talking about vulgard, casing tangy a bit d1, and popping in to call people town)

d3 they instantly voted c4 when marl claimed JK, then when sunbae CC's and accuses vulgard in a way that makes zero sense ever coming from a wolf, goes apeshit accusing him of being a wolf and declaring vulgard a "99% villager" despite being effectively redchecked, which is just insane regardless of any townread you have on him? Then once people started townreading arete for their reaction, and it became clear vulgard was going down, arete starts backtracking and vulgard starts trolling.

all arete can talk about is why all these villagers are villagers

what am i missing here folks?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:49 pm-i accidentally included amy on two tiers on one of my readslist on d2. does that mean that i'm partnered with amy? what is my wolf motivation for putting vulgard twice on the same list by accident? that doesn't even make sense lol

I mean, this is a super nit pick detail thing, but do you know why it happened at all?
I've seen people accidentally put a name twice in different tiers before. It surprises me a bit from you, because I see you as a pretty systematic player.

Arete wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:15 pm anyways

I also have no idea what to look at to figure it out beyond 'reading people's posts' which is super vague

so if anyone has something in particular that they want someone to look into but don't actually want to look into themself, let me know and I can try to look into it?

um also I won a 'single post in day phase following death' prize back on night 1 so if I get voted out then tomorrow if people have any questions for me you can post them in the thread and I'll do my best to answer them

Some things I wanted to look into:
- What went down with the Dya/Alison chop. I remember c4 being on Dya all day (I think). So would be interested to see if he argued for a Dya chop over Alison hard. Come to think of it, I do think he argued Alison was PT and shouldn't be chopped. And I also think that is towny.
- I'm also interested in what happened around Vulgard-gate on D3. Particularly if someone had TMI that Vulgard was caught mafia. I don't actually expect mafia to hard defend Vulgard there.

Maybe these are vague. But it's stuff I hope I'll look into myself, but it depends on if I get the time. I barely have time to even life these days.

Right now I'm going to catch up on this day, and I also want to look into Visor on Dya interaction.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:38 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:27 am @outed wolf and @staypositivefriend Do you have a conclusive read of me? I feel like you should have some thoughts that aren't nebulous and idk, but maybe that's unreasonable for me to expect. So I'm interested to hear.
your presence has been low enough in the most recent days that my brain doesnt really have a confident solid impression of you, even though there's one post from particular from you on d1 (where you bring attention to the idea that vulgard/dyachei could be teamed) that i think looks villagery for you

Well, I think my presence shouldn't be that relevant. But maybe I'm wrong.

Also, it will continue. I'm currently at work, so bye for now.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:30 am not particularly

i havent played with you for like 5 years

so metas no help, and its hard for me to be confident in your posting this game - there are things i think are villagery about you, but not enough or that i have enough belief in that i feel i can clear you

I'll list out what I feel are things that I wouldn't or even can't do as scum:
- I actually thought Gavial was highly likely mafia when I entered the game, but I felt it was a mistake to wagon him when he had like four or five posts. I have just played a game where me+Gavial was the scum team, and he was extremely obvious in how he spewed me as a teammate. So I felt that if he was mafia, it was unironically worse for town to just shut him down immediately. I wouldn't have this approach as mafia. I also think this thought process can be tracked in my post.
- Pointing out a very specific word usage read, connecting Dya and Vulgard is, as Nut points out, strictly outside my wolf range and strictly within my town range. I'm actually pretty good at reading interactions specifically, and I've had many similar finds in other games. (Also, re Syn slot who I thought was obviously not teamed with Vulgard from interaction, and it's even more apparent in Dya's ISO. But that is moot.) In any case, I would never bring up something that nobody else would ever notice about that pairing just to do it. Vulgard was a consensus town read at the time. I also town read Vulgard, mostly directly from that consensus and from Arete. Dya, however, was likely to go down either that day or soon. There would be absolutely no need for me to tie Vulgard to a wolf soon going down if they were on my team. It's not a matter of if I bus or not. I bus if it's necessary. But I would never needlessly put shit like that on my teammates that would just hurt us in the long run when nobody else has noticed the same thing.
- The day the jailkeep happened, I thought I had really solved that it must be Marl or Vulgard as one of the scum. I solved that forgetting that scum would not be free to kill Amy as they pleased, which I didn't think about. That in itself you can call a derp moment, but I'm fine if people want to wave that off as NAI. What is AI imo is that I had a real reaction to thinking this and then realising my mistake. I also had a real reaction to Marl going off at me and immediately realised that Marl was not it. The thing is that I wouldn't have a reaction to this in real time if I was scum and already knew. And then there's the discrepancy between my inner experience and what I express. But I think my reaction can be traced with how I post.
- I have never ever phoned in or not read part of a thread in a scum game. I'm super neurotic as scum and plan everything and need to know everything my teammates are doing etc. If people are ticked off by me being a bit here and there and everywhere, then that is just more signs I'm town.

So these are some of the strongest town signs imo.

I'm currently considering if it could just be Arete. Their interaction with Vulgard is very over the top and bizarre. I think if they are wolf, it would be a case of deciding to town read each other and hard defend each other, given their (apparent???) history together in reading each other. I gather that they are friends outside of mafia perhaps?

The thing is that I've seen Arete jump to Vulgard's defence in ways that are just absurd. "Being wrong is NAI for Vulgard" is one example. Because being wrong is obviously NAI for anyone.

Hopefully I can do work to clear others. Nut spoke about Visor going after Dya in our night chat, and I'm pretty ok to follow on this. I haven't read those parts yet. Tbh, there's still much I haven't read.

@outed wolf and @staypositivefriend Do you have a conclusive read of me? I feel like you should have some thoughts that aren't nebulous and idk, but maybe that's unreasonable for me to expect. So I'm interested to hear.

dyachei wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 9:23 pm
bronana wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 9:20 pm why is it weird that dya is saying the same thing about alison now?

they went hard after alison d1, alison is still alive and has not really changed in any significant way since then so ... ?
exactly

The most interesting find I had last night, imo, is this. I think this kind of interaction is basically never w/w. Dya is piggy backing off of a (reasonable) defence of them that Zack has. I think this kind of "exactly" is wolf using a town voice. So that strengthens my belief that Zack is town.

Nut is also highly likely town. I think Dya also had posts that spewed her town at the start of her ISO, like the other two scum. I don't know why Dya was so mad at Nut at times, which had pinged me previously. Buuut, I feel Nut should just be town here, so I'm landing on this too.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:02 pm I don't see where to go other than [VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine
This will probably start another messy argument that I really shouldn't be starting rn

Not really. But if you have questions, I can try to answer.
I don't know if it helps, but I can point out that those who have had suspicion against me are the exact players who have not played with me before, and those who aren't worried are the ones who know me. This has happened in many games already. So let me know what you're struggling with still, if you care to do so.

I’m gay

Arete probably town. As is Syn.

And Marl. And looks like c4 too.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:16 pm this game not having hammer enabled is *extremely* dumb

This would help

But really, it’s not Syn though. So I don’t know how surprised people should be about that or if there’s any interest in going a different direction, and what that would be.

Ok, let's say it's Syn then. Syn and his prices.

bronana wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:28 am why do you think syn is town?

I have already said. I don't think the interaction I read from Vulgard points to Tangy/Chloe being scum. It's such a hard town read that is so detailed, it just reads TMI, especially considering how Vulgard treated other teammates. And I also don't think Vulgard and Dya both lolcats if Syn was the last mafia there, cause that is doom.

I mean, I hope I'm wrong and am missing a bunch of context, which I am.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:27 am re: vulgard

ppl mightve believed he was a villa but they didnt trust his reads, theres no point killing a guy nobody is gonna listen to until later in the game. (i expected sunbae or spf to be shot much earlier - i imagine the hally kill was pushed for from dya)

re the dya stuff yesterday: a bunch of it was fake to drum up some action tbh, but i did end up panicking and going with it because i had been pushing dya all game and we were getting close to finally killing dya and i hate pushing dya because of fear of being wrong (despite being right on their alignment with regularity over recent games) and i had already been badly wrong on amy and nobody was really talking as we were all (understandably) locked in on dya dying. i basically just panicked for silly reasons.

i'm not going to pretend i was only joking about it lol, i do dumb stuff occasionally like play ww :P

Aight.

Bolded: This is your first mistake.

bronana wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:26 am if only bronana had pointed out this stuff about Chloe days ago :P

this game has been weird in that it's day 5 and every day so far, including this one, it's been fairly obvious who would be yeeted shortly after the day started (except maybe d2 but it was still very clear Alison would be a top candidate at least)

Then Syn flipping town would be quite exciting

But I really do hope it's just Syn and that I'm wrong on that.

bronana wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:09 am and then tried to push marl over vulgard d3

am I crazy or are both of those things that could easily be seen as powerwolfing

You got to get over me suspecting you on D1 lol.

First of all, I never defended KZA. I had literally no opinion on KZA, nor had I read their posts (except the ones you pointed out).

Also, I've explained the Marl thing several times now. I immediately changed my mind once Marl reacted and I realised that scum were not free to kill Amy if they wanted to because of the jailkeeper.

And also, no, that is not what Nut meant with powerwolfing, I think.
What she meant is probably what she also said: Mafia would be in a better position right now. =p The sass tbh

Too many words.

Two things I thought about this morning:
- Visor was very vocal about how no scum team would ever kill Vulgard above other players the night Vulgard was caught. I think he said it was because Vulgard had been so wrong. This did feel a bit mocking, and also imo a bit out of touch with thread. Cause Vulgard was highly town read at the time before that, so I don't see why it would be so obvious. And I also think the mocking tone could be mafia on mafia rather than a town who doesn't know if he's mocking a town or not.
- Visor freaking out last day felt pretty fake to me tbh. In fact, I was assuming that he was just playing it up to try and create some drama or see who would follow off from Dya. When he came into the day today apologising for it, I guess he meant it. But it felt fake.

[VOTE: Visor] aubergine

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:14 pm dizzy i just don't really agree that that's not vulgard talking about a teammate re: tangy there, imo it seems like he goes in and finds reasons to call her town like "a wolf wouldn't put in the effort of that readslist" etc that's actually fairly weak. he had previously kinda shaded her for not making an impression and when prodded goes in and "finds" reason to call her town

idk, i can see it either way but i think there's a lot that looks bad collectively for the slot over the course of the game more than anyone else atp

I don't think both Vulgard and Dya lolcats if Syn is the last wolf.
Vulgard calls Tang/Chloe 100 % town later too. It reads very tmi to me, and he hasn't treated his other teammates like that at all.
So yeah, I don't think it's Syn.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:12 pm reminder that this post is fairly strong evidence for c4 not being the last wolf unless you want to ultra mega wifom read it lmao

Vulgard wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:38 am c4, dya and KZA are in the "no impressions made" club and I would like them to play the game. I do not townread c4 for a carefully voiced scumread (?) on SPF. That's in any average wolf's wolfrange and I think SPF is too quick to clear them regardless of alignment.

dya and KZA just haven't talked about the game much yet. Dya got offended based on a single accusation if I read that correctly, and KZA 5-posted and dipped.

I mean. Devil's advocate.

1. He already did put 2 of his three teammates there.
2. Dya brought it up as evidence themselves.
3. Earlier, Vulgard made a reference to a past scum game of his where he purposefully treated teammate Alison in a way that made her go deep. So I don't think it's out of his range to plot in exactly that way.

But otherwise sure.

Syn wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:09 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:41 pm @Syn I think you are town. Can you please point me to the direction of the last wolf? Please share your wisdom.
it's unhelpful but I have no idea beyond gut

I am pretty solidly set, I think, on you, zack, and marl town

Alright. Why me as town btw? I thought you said you had some reason to suspect me earlier, or was maybe last game day?

Interested to hear if you can articulate your read on Zack

Nutella town, SPF town, Arete town, Marl town, Syn town.

Two of Visor, Zack and c4 are town. Please let me know who.

Vulgard's posts are too long. But I don't think he talks about Tang or Chloe at all like they are partners. Really just reads to tmi them town. I have found no clearing and in same cases awkward interaction between Visor, Zack and c4 and Vulgard.

I'll continue this later.

I don't really get the sureness on Syn at all here.

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:23 pm I'm finally on my PC and can look at Tangrowth's ISO.

Early on, she seems withdrawn from the game. She hasn't stuck her head out for anyone. She hasn't been involved in a controversial argument. Nothing. She's just been off by the wayside, doing her own solving. She adopted the role of thread moderator in a notable part of her ISO. I don't MIND that, but it's something a wolf can easily do because it doesn't force them to take stances.

A good thing is that her tone has been super friendly, but I'm trying to look past that. This playerlist is stacked, which is why I'm not giving anyone easy townreads/clears. And when I look past her tone, what I see is someone who hasn't taken any notable stances early on. Aside from easy posts like "nutella town," "why is Amy town."

This ends with her readlist and that's why I townread said readlist. Not only is there a read on every player in the game, some of them are very well-reasoned. There are also takes I consider contrarian. For instance, hard town on Dizzy back when nobody knew what to do with them and how to read their attitude. The reads she feel the strongest about have believable-looking reasoning behind them. Dizzy and Nutella reads in particular.

The Dizzy read especially looks like something you wouldn't bother with as a wolf. If Dizzy's your partner and they're inviting people to vote them... Hard shielding doesn't seem like the best of ideas. If Dizzy's town, they're misyeetable if they continue playing like this. In that case, shielding them isn't advisable, either.

I also townread the fact Tangrowth has Dizzy as "strong town" but uses language like:

"the read is subject to volatility"
"light town read"
"not worried even if I should be"
"the read is self-centered'

These parts imply different strengths / qualities of the read. A wolf wouldn't bother. Even if they wanted to fake nuance, they wouldn't decide to make their read so all over the place. It's your fake top townread, just label them as strong town and move on. What Tangrowth does instead is simultaneously express doubt and comfort. This isn't an agenda read, whether whiteknighting or townreading a partner. If the wolf goal was "pocket / defend Dizzy for townpoints," the read wouldn't need to be this way. If the wolf goal was "shield my partner Dizzy," the read STILL wouldn't need to be this way.

The introduction to the readlist also looks very hard to fake from a wolf POV. It goes on about far more things than it needs to. If Tangrowth is a wolf, she decided to produce a high-quality wallpost for no reason. The only suspicion she faced at that point was a weak push from Arete and nobody asked for a readlist.

Tangrowth wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:35 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:33 pm
Tangrowth wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:26 pm I'm perhaps not going to come close to matching a fair portion of this playlist through sheer reads and/or solving methods. That's not really my strength, especially this early on, and even more so with people I don't know and entering a tense environment with an intimidating playerlist that I felt and feel more so on the outer edges of for the most part. I understand why people are explaining pleasantries as things I do, and I appreciate the kind thoughts that underlie such an association, so thanks, really. It is very important to me that people are having fun, particularly with such an enamored group of players, but I do think I may have been less concerned about the discordance in such a way that it would be easier to find my footing if I had TMI right now, even if I'd still try to put everyone at more ease publicly. As it stands... I just sort of feel like I'm dipping my toes in the pool, trying to get a feel for things, and if that means people are going to be hesitant to town read me because I'm hurling softballs or whatever, that's fine I guess, but I just don't feel like waiting for me to produce is a good way to find me as town. I guess I don't know where I fit in with this town at all yet, and that's not a comforting spot to be in... I like feeling like I have a specific purpose. I realize someone could just say well, make reads, do your own thing, but I am not going to force reads that I don't have (hence the questions), and I don't function well in a corner. I'm not expecting anyone to help me with that, it's my place to try to optimize how I can help win us this game, just musing aloud about it. I'm probably >rand in terms of being a self-oriented person, and I'll try to keep such perspective to a minimum and let you all figure me out or find me however you'd like, but I have a direct responsibility to make myself easier to find from my end too, and I wanted these things said nonetheless because I feel like at least some players will struggle to find me based on what's been said already. Anyway, without further ado, a reads list.
this is SO MANY words and i dont have a GODDAMN clue what it says
????? okay, that's fine I guess. You don't really have to. If it's helpful to someone, great, if not then whatever.
This looks genuine. Genuinely deflated. Doubly so when you consider the context. Nutella had been one of Tangrowth's top townreads, and here she's mistreating Tangrowth. Or rather, doesn't seem to be taking Tangrowth's content very seriously. Instead of wolfreading her for it, or changing her read, Tangrowth just seems sad. ...This isn't a wolf reaction. Because it doesn't look fake. Tangrowth looks genuinely hurt by this post.

I'm not continuing with this ISO, I don't need to. Tangrowth is a villager.

Needless to say, I take back my earlier comment. Her posts didn't leave an impression on me because I didn't really look at them.

This really does not seem like someone talking about their teammate.
Vulgard was leaning the way of distancing and critical questions towards his other teammates (and then didn't vote them when it came down to it). He was riffing more and longer and detailed about his correct town reads, like his read on me.

@Syn I think you are town. Can you please point me to the direction of the last wolf? Please share your wisdom.

[VOTE: Arete] aubergine

I started reading all scum's ISO. Haven't read most of Vulgard's posts for example. And then, lol, I think his first post also point towards Nut as town pretty heavily, so... But I really wanted it to be Nut.

Anyway. Lettuce see what comes up as I finish the readings at some point, which a lot of people if not all already have done, but I want to do it myself as well.

But maybe it is /shrug

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:12 pm and how they treated me too

they pretty clearly had tmi on me

I will look into it.
I’m not convinced it’s Syn though.

I haven’t done much thorough reading, but my feeling is that it isn’t Syn.

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

I’m not like other mafia players.

I think it's just Dya/Nut tbh. Dya towards Nut today has felt to me like "Cool distancing. Nobody will suspect anything."

And I can't really get convinced about anyone else being mafia with Dya, but I'm pretty sure Dya is mafia.
Haven't really considered Visor, but I know I've had reasons to find him town throughout the game.

I thought Visor just got bored and wanted to create some waves and be cool tbh.

I think I've liked SPF this day. And she also had the Alison/Dya idea and felt similar about it to me (that it was dumb, but she still had it). So I don't think I'm about to tinfoil SPF very hard.

Ok, so.

I think Dya is just mafia.
- I still think I had a real catch in Vul's posts about Dya. Those were:
1. Vul saying "The read Dya has been repping for a while", showing that he knew it was not a real read.
2. Vul saying something that read to me like "I've seen Dya react this way as town as well", which read to me as TMI that Dya is mafia.
- I completely agree with Arete that Vul dancing around the Dya/Alison wagons was weird as well. I remember thinking that when I read it back then as well, but I don't remember if I said it. But he was acting real awkward about it, and I agree with Arete on that pointing towards Dya as mafia.
- I don't feel Dya has ever tried to figure out my alignment in this game.
- Dya didn't feel like a villager who was expecting a scum flip at all when we chopped Alison.

If Dya is not mafia, game is exciting.

I expect Dya to be mafia, and I have thoughts beyond this. But I'll surely be alive next day to expand.

I'm not at all convinced Syn is mafia with Dya. I don't know what's with the attitude. He could be town who's just wrong and defending Dya for some reason.

Dya joining in on the lolcats could point to the solution being a little bit trickier.
I don't want anyone, and especially not Nut to freak out about it, but I still had a pretty strong feeling about Dya/Nut distancing on D2 or whenever it was. Nut was a consensus town read, however Dya did not town read Nut and accused them of not doing things Nut normally did as town. As mafia, I think it would be strange for Dya to take this position on a universally town read town!Nutella. But they have more incentive to do it if Nut is their partner. It's also much easier to see how a partner is not acting up to their town self when you are teamed. It also wouldn't be as bad to lolcat with Vul if Dya felt safer in their last partner having a better position in thread.

This said, I do think Nut has been generally towny, and I've also shared many of her thoughts tbh.
I haven't revisited this, but wanted to just put it out there.
There will be plenty of time to discuss this and other theories, assuming Dya flips mafia.
If Dya doesn't flip mafia, I don't really know right now, and I'd rather cross that bridge if I have to later.
But I firmly want to go for Dya here.

General warning: The last few days I was on a work trip and extremely busy. I have not read most the end/last half of D3. I do miss context in the thread.

bronana wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:20 am thread has the mouthfeel of a bunch of villagers fighting over pointless crap cause they're bored

"Why is no one talking about the mouthfeel."

Marluxion wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:24 pm My gut pre backread says there is one in Nutella or Dizzy for how they tried to push me as a wolf yesterday before resigning to the Vulgard yeet

I've already tried to explain this, but I'll try once more. Please listen.

I did not try to push you as wolf, I actually thought you were the likeliest wolf for a second.
The reason I thought this was actually based on a mechanical misunderstanding/I forgot something.
Here's what I thought: The only reason scum wouldn't kill Amy was if they were sure to hit another better PT instead of her. And the only way they could be sure was from your chat with Vul, and you believing his claim. And so that all made sense to me, how you would block and kill Vul instead.
However - and I think I began to realise this before your big reaction to me - this doesn't track, because there is another obvious reason why scum wouldn't kill Amy, and that is they thought she'd be jailkept, so they didn't target her. Which made it likelier to me that anyone could've targeted Vul, and not just you. (And I was leaning Vul being town at that time.)
Also, your big reaction to me immediately made me reconsider hard, and I think that shows.

Last day you criticised me for trying to make the situation a false dichotomy between you/Vul. If I was trying to do that, it would be dumb as shit if I was teamed with Vul, and dummer to be going for you while at the same time creating that dichotomy.
That dichotomy existed for me because I didn't understand how else scum would not just kill Amy, cause it should be a free confirmed PT kill.
But again, I forgot about the jailkeep.
So when that dichotomy no longer existed for me, I understood why everyone was voting elsewhere, and I was leaning on voting Dya. I thought you were town for how you reacted to me, and I thought it was possible both you and Vul was in fact town. At some point when I came back, Vul's posts had deteriorated and I followed others onto him instead. I had also not read much at that point.
The reason I thought Vul was town is probably not the best as it was both a consensus read and honestly felt that regardless of Arete's alignment, her absurdly strong defense of Vul would mean Vul was likely town. I didn't pay much attention to him myself, mostly sponged, as I don't know him from before.

This was a lot. But I hope it makes sense and clears up my perspective.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:33 am kill c4 with me dizzy

No. But do your thing. I'm not D1-me.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:57 pmIf we want productive discussion, we could just go back to:

Why is Dizzy town?

This has literally been answered already. I've talked about it. Nut has talked about it. Others. If you choose to ignore it, so be it. But this is your job to figure out.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:22 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:20 pm I think this is dumb. I don’t think it’s that hard.

I literally town read Vul. My observation was in spite of that. Not concerned with making up a story that would make sense or be coherent. If my motivation was getting cred or something I’d make it a big thing.

You’re asking the wrong questions. You don’t know me.
You're missing my point again. What if maybe, just maybe, there was no motivation? Is it really that far out of your wolf range to just say random shit about your buddies?

Yes, actually, it is. As wolf I overthink and plan everything. The mentality I have as wolf is completely different from when I'm town, which is why I hate playing as that alignment. I would never say random shit about teammates as wolf without it being thoroughly planned.

Correct me on any of the below assumptions.

1. Anyone with a third neuron knows that dya, Syn and I will all be dead by D7.
2. You think the game will end once dya, Syn and I are all dead.
3. You care about what I'm saying about you right now.

1. Probably true if you've followed the game closely and have an overview at this time, but I didn't. Haven't been able to read much at all the last few days. I want Dya to be chopped today, and haven't thought much past that.
2. No, I have never said that. In fact, if you used 10 % of the passion you have whining about me not being in most people's PoE on actually reading my posts, you would know that I came into the game with a PoE of Dya + c4/SPF/Nut. This is before I had really considered stuff. I also completely forgot about Syn at that time.
3. It annoys me and I don't understand where it's coming from. So yes, I care in two ways: 1. Why is this important to you and can I get an AI read off of it? 2. Fucking annoying.

Do you see the conflict here? Why should what I'm saying about you now matter to you if you'll win whether I say it or not?

What the fuck are these words?
Your assumptions are all strange and wrong. I'll get annoyed as fuck when people don't understand me, don't even try for a second to listen or actually understand where I'm coming from and is coming at me with dumb shit when I don't understand why. Like, you seem real passionate about wanting to drag me for some reason. If you use some of that passion actually listen to me and listen to what other people say about me, or like actually figuring out my alignment, I think that would be a lot more productive.

Am I town or scum to you?

I can think of a scenario where me saying what I'm saying now could affect your win condition. Guess what that scenario is?

This is the sort of phrasing that is fucking annoying. "Guess what that is hmmmm???"

Your problems here are several:
You are complete ignoring what I'm actually saying and you're making shit up that isn't real.
You are also ignoring what others are saying about me. They know me and you don't. So maybe you should listen.
For some reason you are only considering the angle where I'm wolf. It's like "Do you see how I think you might react this way as a wolf, hmm?" Which first of all, actually no. And second of all - can you get out of that perspective and see how what I'm doing is coming from town?

And I have no idea why you try to make me reacting to your posts a wolf thing. "Why would you care unless you're a wolf, hmmm?"
Cause we all know no villager ever gets annoyed at wrong assumptions and shit thrown at them and will just bypass it and not care. Please. I'll react to wrong takes on me. Take some time and listen. I don't understand why you're so passionate about getting this out, when you have zero passion for getting your concerns answered and taking that in.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:46 pm something feels a little off to me rn - it might be because syn's indignation about dya being town is difficult for me to wrap my head around, but it also makes me feel doubtful that the solve is as easy as exactly dya/syn

I feel this.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:44 pmcool but like. marl is not even worth looking at rn

convince me it's in c4/syn/spf and i might spare you a day

I feel this.

bronana wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:54 pm thread seems super dumb rn

nothing is going to get done if people are so needlessly hostile, the best towns are cooperative

I feel this.

That feeling when Safari no longer is able to open Cindy Kate, but if you use Chrome, it's fine?

I'm back from my trip, and I'm going to read this day. Probably.

I...

I’m going to sleep.

Lol some of the things right now.

Dya for president.

Good night!

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