The Syndicate

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:23 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:21 am Is this the part where we turbo jjj?

I mean, he would unvote to appease Hally as either alignment, I don't think it's ADDITIONALLY indicative. The fact that he didn't offer to unvote IS wolfy though, I think normally as town he's like yeah, I don't mind... But let's just see if other people are ok with it.

Here he was like YEAH IM FINE WITH IT

OH, other people aren't... Ok.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:18 am

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:16 am someone unvote alison please

If you wish.

[VOTE: NotAnAxehole] aubergine

Alison is my preferred chop.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:22 am like how much can I actually elaborate on a read I made from skimming a guy's 9 post ISO? do you want me to break it down character by character?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Feb 26, 2022 12:19 amit's 9 fucking posts, why is the burden of proof on me? people are >rand town by default so the burden of proof is not on me.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:52 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:51 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:49 pm I am unconvinced that Alison is this convinced about me.

same

it just reads like she picked a random lhf villager to try to ram through and inflated her confidence in it to hide that there’s no substance to her push

You guys are talking like I am deathtunnelling Radish.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:50 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:47 pm alison, convince me that radishes is a dastardly villain please

it can’t just be that post dizzy quoted, right?

His entrance was bad. c4 made a case against him if you care about that. I don't, but maybe it sways you. Then he came back into the thread and sort of acknowledged the suspicion on him but skated by. (He was top wagon when he returned to the thread. But he did not do anything townie. Now he is not top wagon. This makes me wonder why.) His wagon position relative to mine makes me suspect him more.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:43 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:42 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:41 pm I have done more solving in the few posts after I came back and didn't read than multiple slots have done all game. Voting me is the wrong move.

Your solving is trying to take away a consensus town read (it's not really) from a town so no

Also, no.

That's because you don't deserve the consensus town read. Maybe you are town. You are not a prime suspect. But I saw you do practically nothing before I went to bed and then I woke up and you were hard pushing me so I don't think you deserve the consensus town read at all.

Also, my solving is presenting a flowchart that has a 60% chance of winning the game on the spot. That's pretty good for like, half of Day 1.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:41 pm I have done more solving in the few posts after I came back and didn't read than multiple slots have done all game. Voting me is the wrong move.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:36 pmPerhaps you have done townie things in the section I didn't read. Feel free to quote them to spark discussion in advance.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:33 pm I don't know what to make of Dizzy's suspicion of me so I'm going to ignore it.

Dizzy is POE'd for other reasons (mainly doing nothing townie), but he is not a prime suspect.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:33 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:32 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:27 pm We probably only get two mischops in this game. I suggest we eliminate the top suspect every time without regard for who it is. The game is unlikely to offer a wealth of time and chop resources to sort itself out. This might be speaking the obvious, but I don't think it's obvious in practice.

wait actually?

Yeah

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:28 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:22 pm Name 6 townies not including yourself. Get it right and you win the game. Anyone fancy a try?

c4
marmot
dizzy
you

honestly not sure who else, but maybe radishy because he’s my mason

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:26 pm Alison is 0% chance to be mafia. Anyone who thinks otherwise is objectively wrong.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:24 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:23 pm Whoops time to sleep Alison is here

Why does this mean it is time to sleep?

I have not read anything since my last post. I'm not sure if I feel like reading. Sometimes I do but this time I don't. I'm probably going to alternate between slowly reading and talking in thread.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:23 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:19 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:17 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:14 pmi’ve been the main one saying she’s probably mafia the entire day lol

Ugh. I know that. Just

Nevermind

Last time you listed suspects or who you wanted to vote, you didn't include Alison, pretty sure. And your response here was pretty much a joke. It was just weird. Are you afraid of being wrong or are you an alien shapeshifter.

But still never mind

i’m just not sure i actually want to kill alison D1 because if she’s a villager i think she can clear herself over time, whereas i find it less likely NAA or wilgy would if v

but i do think she’s a wolf and i may end up just voting her idk

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:22 pm Name 6 townies not including yourself. Get it right and you win the game. Anyone fancy a try?

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:18 pm the team is actually mac/alison because they aren’t villagery here and both of them have acknowledged the other is not villagery yet neither of them have actually done anything about it and if either of them were v and wolf read the other they would make it their mission to push it

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:19 pmSure, im just saying its pointless to run people up if there's no threat of hammer, not that you shouldn't say it, cause you're right we all know there are like...3, maybe 4 people in this game that woild d1 hammer lol

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:18 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:16 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:14 pm Outside c4, there's a general view forming that Alison is a lead suspect. I would say so too.

If so, what implications does this have for the other players? I am sensing a little bit of discord in the consensus beyond this point (not an unhealthy amount, but an observable amount), and it might do us well as a group to sort that problem if it is a problem. Who fits with mafia Alison? What happens to your view of the game if she is town?

You are like actually very scummy with these posts. Have I just forgotten how to play with you. I'd vig you over most others in this game rn tbh tbh

So that was my reaction.
But to answer your question like a good citizen. Alison scum means town wins. Alison town means I look at you/Mac/Nanook/NAA probably.

I really don't know why you feel that way but okay

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:17 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:14 pmi’ve been the main one saying she’s probably mafia the entire day lol

Ugh. I know that. Just

Nevermind

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:14 pmi’ve been the main one saying she’s probably mafia the entire day lol

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:14 pm Outside c4, there's a general view forming that Alison is a lead suspect. I would say so too.

If so, what implications does this have for the other players? I am sensing a little bit of discord in the consensus beyond this point (not an unhealthy amount, but an observable amount), and it might do us well as a group to sort that problem if it is a problem. Who fits with mafia Alison? What happens to your view of the game if she is town?

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:11 pmi just think he’d be making his life unnecessarily hard as a wolf by correctly clearing wilgy off a highly specific meta read that nobody will ever expect him to make

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:05 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:00 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:18 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:15 am Wilgy is obviously town who next, Alison?

I don't think he is

I re-read MR though and some stuff pings me (specifically the flat-sounding attempt to sound like an egoistical townie angry that people are assuming they're out of their scum range, and the repetition of "witty opening post" making for a kinda stilted entrance). So I [VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine.

Orange just reads like such bs.

This is the post in question:

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:47 pm Screw you I can be mafia still

Which is an obvious joke. I don't think town!Alison reads this as a "flat-sounding attempt to sound like an egotistical towny angry that people are assuming they're out of their scum range". Too many words anyway.

Alison was super awkward in the spat with Hally as well. And the "never mind I town read you now" is classic Wolfison.

So I think I'm just going to tunnel here until she be dedded.

i actually forgot alison is the one who is on record saying she hard pushes villagers as a wolf and then “reevaluates” them to pocket them

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:06 pm @Dyslexicon I have dissonance about you, because you're only sort of here. I could vaguely say the same about MR. It's not an emergency, and I only sort of care -- but it does technically mean to me that y'all would be less challenged to produce your current post histories as mafia.

It's further dissonant because I am the same guy right now. Sometimes we just don't feel like doing all kinds of shit. That's okay.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:01 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:54 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:51 pmEntirely for that one post? Big meh.

It is that, and I just feel it.

I have more success reading town from micro tells (one off posts)
But not a lot of success reading scum from micro tells (cause town says weird and scummy shit or stuff that is insincere all the time)

Town read micro and scum read macro or something.
This is a rant that's not really relevant, but just something I thought about today.

Anyway, I still think Wilgy is town so sue me.

This is a big part of my MO too so I get that much, but this specific kind of read is one I've turned my confidence in way, way down over time because of how frequently it's been wrong

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:18 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:15 am Wilgy is obviously town who next, Alison?

I don't think he is

I re-read MR though and some stuff pings me (specifically the flat-sounding attempt to sound like an egoistical townie angry that people are assuming they're out of their scum range, and the repetition of "witty opening post" making for a kinda stilted entrance). So I [VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:47 pm Screw you I can be mafia still

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:54 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:52 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:41 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:12 pm I will ask. People who have correctly read Dizzy before. Why aren't they scum rn?

I find that I'm just bad at reading them.

This is like super towny for Wilgy for me. Wilgy says this and other stuff he's said by now as town.

@Hally I don't think Wilgy ever cares about wanting to read me correctly as scum or asks around. He usually slaps a scum read on me or just doesn't care at all. You could say "But pretending", but nah. I just think he's town and I've decided. His thoughts are weird, but that is not uncommon.

really? i feel like asking the thread for their read on someone is so easy to fake as a wolf

also i gave a lengthy reply to him that he ignored, which makes me think he didn’t really care about his question

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:51 pmEntirely for that one post? Big meh.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:41 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:12 pm I will ask. People who have correctly read Dizzy before. Why aren't they scum rn?

I find that I'm just bad at reading them.

This is like super towny for Wilgy for me. Wilgy says this and other stuff he's said by now as town.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:18 pm Town reads
c4e5g3d5
Hally
MacDougall
Marmot

There's some dissonance here, but gun to head town
Dyslexicon
Master Radishes

Not town reads
Alison
DrWilgy
Nanook
NAA

At 9 vs. 2, an ordinary set of roles would call for a POE pool of 5 players (2 mafia + 3 mischops). The arrangement of this game's matrix provides the likelihood (certainty?) of a mischop being lost to an extra mafia kill or beloved princess, so reduce the POE to 4. We'd then need 6 town reads to square the game away, which for the moment does seem like a genuine challenge. I have a theoretical POE built above, but I would like to be more confident about it than I am.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:11 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:19 pm This seems kinda Alison 101 lmao

Also I think the main reason for my Alison tr is presentation, still having trouble describing it but there's an efficiency to it, she gets to the point quickly and bluntly in a way that looks designed to hit harder when you read it
Just makes me actually believe she's trying to stir the thread, and I also think it describes what I've seen of v!Alison better than what I've seen of w!Alison

And generally she seems to not have any kind of schedule for who she pressures and when but these reads are always wrong from me so take that one with a grain of salt

I'm revisiting this per your request, c4. What you describe in orange is, to me, Alison rather than town Alison or mafia Alison. I am not sure I have seen Alison present her views of a game "inefficiently"; that is perhaps one of her core values as a player. I think it's plausible that she has tried to "stir the thread", and that such a description can be associated with some specific posts she has made if they are viewed with the most favorable available interpretation. Things like the elongated process of "reaction testing" Hally apply. To me, the important question is not "is this stylistically a town Alison action?" but rather it is "do I believe Alison is doing things for the reasons that she says she is doing things?".

An example: I am not sure Alison's treatment of Hally can really be described as a "reaction test" or that I believe her when she claims it as such. There are certain motions in the general consensus that can be placed over Alison's handling of Hally like a stencil, and I think the fit would be close. Alison's read changed, abruptly and strongly, in a stage of play in which Hally's general stance of being threatened by the player base at large was concurrently waning outside of Alison's influence. I might be convoluting my explanation, so let me know if this doesn't make sense. I don't have a ton of confidence in this stuff, but I am trying to articulate why I might doubt Alison's play to this point. The Hally example is just one among a couple or a few that I could babble on about had I the time or inclination.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:44 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:11 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:30 pm correction naa's entire iso is townie

this post reminds me of how i caught mac in GoC when he declared sabie was lock v for no reason

like idk how anyone could think this lol

I read his iso and it was townie... explain how it wasn't? first 9 posts.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:42 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:12 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:04 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:26 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:25 pm Btw running people up is kind of pointless if you're vocally unwilling to hammer lol, the whole point of running people up is to see what happens when they get close to a hammer, but there's no tension to it if everyone knows there are only two or three people in this game whod actually hammer lol

Who is vocally unwilling to hammer?

Literally everyone saying things like "I don't want a hammer" lol

Who has said that though?

Alison Jay you hally dizzy radishes I think have said some form of it

Idk I'm not fact checking right now that's just offhand

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:20 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:12 pm I will ask. People who have correctly read Dizzy before. Why aren't they scum rn?

I find that I'm just bad at reading them.

i’m not sure

i agree with where his head’s been at generally but i feel his vibe/presence is off in the sense that as a villager i feel like tries not to care but then gets sucked into it anyway whereas here i feel like he’s almost overplaying how little he cares in a way that might actually be wolfy for him

i’ve seen wolves lay on the idc vibe too thick because they think that if they’re so blatant about it people will actually level themselves out of wolf reading them for it (w!alexa does this for example)

but i don’t know actually know if that’s the line dizzy would take here as a wolf and it’s entirely possible his mood is off and it means nothing

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:12 pm I will ask. People who have correctly read Dizzy before. Why aren't they scum rn?

I find that I'm just bad at reading them.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:00 pm nobody has any thoughts on this?

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:02 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:46 pm Can I get a tldr on Axe that doesn't revolve around "not towny"

- treatment of alison is wolfy - opens saying he wants to sheep her while not yet having a read on her then v reads her for a weak reason that doesn’t really apply to her and makes no effort engage with/understand the suspicion surrounding her i.e. what villagers do when someone they v read is getting wolf read a ton. just don’t see any critical thought or drive to figure things out in his treatment of her and it reads more like he’s just trying to ingratiate himself to her.

- treatment of his nonconsensus suspects is wolfy - keeps throwing you out as a wolf read but does nothing about it. again, not what villagers do when someone they wolf read is getting widely v read. i think at one point he even threw out you/jay/dizzy as his suspects and you’re all being cleared pretty much, meaning from his pov town’s consensus is way off, yet i don’t see any of the concern in his posts that villagers have when they think everything is upside down.

- i find his treatment of me wolfy too but obviously biased there. just don’t feel like he’s been trying to solve me in a good faith way.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:06 pm also he and nanook know each other well afaik + nanook has been getting a lot of heat, but NAA has largely ignored him i think

i dunno, just not feeling the villager in the way he’s approaching anything but i’ve never played with him so maybe i’m backwards here

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:30 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:38 pmThe fact that Wilgy says the "team" could be actively avoiding it when a wolf MR could only have one teammate is actually a little townie imo, because I think scum!Wilgy would be more aware of the fact that there could only be one teammate which is not much of a team.

I thought the same thing, and this is the Marmot analysis I subscribed to. Thank you.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:38 pmThe fact that Wilgy says the "team" could be actively avoiding it when a wolf MR could only have one teammate is actually a little townie imo, because I think scum!Wilgy would be more aware of the fact that there could only be one teammate which is not much of a team.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:31 pm Simply this:
if MR flips RED, I don't think these are wolves
c4e5g3d5, Alison, MacDougall, NotAnAxehole

I think there's a likely chance MR is red because of them not being hammered for what, a 10-12 hour period of floating 4?

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:05 pm also if for some reason you think wolves will just do that and they haven’t, the fact that the haven’t would make MR a wolf right? but your not concluding that? or are you?