The Syndicate

Metalmarsh89 wrote:The only thing I've done behind the scenes is submit a nightkill for Epignosis and Silverwolf.

We all know that was Ika who scum claimed that he did it. You don't fool me.

a2thezebra wrote:Perhaps he is. I have town reads on both ika and IAWY, stronger town reads than Zexy I should note. ika always speaks with unwarranted certainty, in a previous game with him he actually made fun of me for insisting there be a distinction between a strong read of his and a confirmed town/scum player, I am not kidding. I'm not looking for teammate connections to IAWY only because I don't read him as mafia. If I'm currently speculating teammate connections then it's in regards to MM and Golden.

Oh ok, didn't see this before now. I get that about Ika, I assumed this was kind of his meta. There was a point where I town read him on D1, but I lost confident in that at some point, also maybe because Silver did.

a2thezebra wrote:My town read of ika partially comes from his insistence on his reads and his total lack of hesitance to call people out for any little thing, similar to myself.

I assume you read Golden as scum still. Who do you see as his teammates?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:^^ I do realize I am simplifying a lot of factors in that post, but I just wanted to throw that out there.

Lol, if you are town this game you have this tendency to be all pushing things behind the scenes, popping in and just throw some gasolin on whatever fire is burning. If you are scum, then that's your scum style I guess. Just an observation.

Golden wrote:In respect of ika, he comes across as very earnest - he did in Turf Wars when bad too, but in that case he knew he would appear town if lynched. I town read him in part because of silverwolf's death, and then when he honestly stated something like 'I would kill silverwolf' his honesty in that when he had no need to point it out made me feel good about him as well. On the flip side, ika getting fixated bothers me - not because it's necessarily a scum tell, but because it minimises his interactions significantly if he is scum. Overall, though, I just 'feel good' about ika right now. Not strongly good. Just, I don't get any feelings that I need to poke there.

Why? He already had said this D1. He woudln't be able to deny it.

a2thezebra wrote:As to the first question, I haven't been okay with an IAWY lynch ever since MP ISO'd him and provided no analysis that convinced me, but did convince quite a few others.

K, well I think he's scum. I think it's likely Ika bussed IAWY D1, he talked from a perspective that IAWY was confirmed scum. I think it's been mentioned already (by Ika himself iirc) that Ika would bus hard as scum, and if IAWY was scum doing nothing D1 it would not be an unreasonable tactic as he would be likely to get lynched sooner rather than later anyway. I can also see other people teamed with IAWY like Soneji, Golden and Matt. But that's my view.

a2thezebra wrote:His reads just seemed genuine to me. It seems (seemed? not sure to be honest) like he is trying to figure out things without being swayed too easily in any given direction. A legitimate effort to find the baddies.

That's fine as a read of his actions, but that is kind of what scum does though - try to come across as making a legitimate effort to find scum. He has not amazed me with his towniness at any point in this game.

Why was everyone ok lynching IAWY D1, but not today?

Why is Golden on the same wagon as IAWY who he apparently suspects?

Town needs to organize a lynch and not have too much EOD cray cray here.

a2thezebra wrote:Stop it, you're hurting my town read of Zexy.

I may have done something else stupid as well, but I don't care cause yolo. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't understand why people have him as a townread in general. He was active at the start, did some questioning, but not many conclusive thoughts. All null imo. And then he writes a catch up now and then and doesn't follow up for the longest time. Such skating wow.

a2thezebra wrote:I'm already caught up.

Oh ok. I sort of expected a bit more commentary, but I think MP has spoiled me. But that is good to know at least.

a2thezebra wrote:I'm not sure. Sometimes when I'm catching up after a lynch or night-kill I get impatient and skip to find out who died before going back to respond or comment on various things. It could be that mid-way through Zexy's catch-up they had to see the result.

Then why say "Ignore the parts about Silverwolf and Long Con/Epignosis, I guess." afterwards? Why not just take it out or do a disclaimer in the same post if he already knew who died?

The catch up post came first. Then the disclaimer. It read very much like coming off as him not knowing who had died.

Furthermore. He has written this catchup in the nighttime (pretty sure he said this, because he mentioned that you can't quote when it is night) - so for him to have seen the flips then he would've need to go back to the post and corrected the parts about Epig to "was" instead of "is".

a2thezebra wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Currently we have a four-way tie, how much time is left?

I think about 4 hours and 13 minutes.

Thank you.

Do you have the time to catch up before day end?

Conspiracy theory over analyzing activated:

Zexy wrote:Ignore the parts about Silverwolf and Long Con/Epignosis, I guess.

More later...

So Zexy says this after his catch up, implying that he wasn't aware of who had died yet. This would implicate that he is town.

However in the catch up I find examples that he uses present tense when he's talking about people alive - here's some examples:

Zexy wrote:Dizzy trying to push the zebra wagon after it deflated is weird. Unless he is scum with the top wagon of the time (MM) I don’t understand why scum would do that…

Actually, I said that I’ll ISO Wilgy but MP already did it for me. I agree that there is something scummish about him, also I don’t know Wilgy meta as much as MP does so I’ll trust him. Actually, were it not for Wilgy quirky meta, I would get a bigger scumread than what I currently have.

But past tense when he is talking about Epig:

Epignosis’ reason for voting Frog was bad. It was a very “easy” vote, they didn’t really analyze anything to get to that, just “I saw that single thing from a player with ~100 posts and it is scummy so here’s my vote”. I’ll excuse it since they only subbed in late in the phase, but it is not the kind of thought process I’d like to see anymore…
At 37 as of now.

He isn't talking about Silver by herself it seems.


What do you all think about this? Too detailed and paranoid? Or legit suspicion?
Had to point it out cause it's bugging my brain.

Golden wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

ika wrote:i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

I don't.

That's a response to the last sentence lol, not the first.

I can see MP doing something like that. I wouldn't necessarily call it 'careless'. Just... MP.

Eh, I'm not sure of what the moral of the story is here for you. My point was that I find it hard to believe that MP assuming it was a mafia vig is a "slip". He just assumed that. If he was mafia surely he would be more careful in talking about it. Is that what you're agreeing with?

a2thezebra wrote:Currently we have a four-way tie, how much time is left?

I think about 4 hours and 13 minutes.

Why is all this even a thing?

MM, that wouldn't be considered a slip. Neither would MP's presumptions. They are assumptions, not slips. By your logic my "I make no assumptions" is a slip too, and everyone else who is not openly claiming they know exactly what has happened.

What I pointed out about you end of D1 where you assumed at least two town had to be on Frog's wagon when he had 5 votes was a slip, fake or real. You never did comment a lot on that btw.

ika wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

ika wrote:i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

no i disagree entirely. i can see any scum player doing such thing.

in turf i let out intentional knowlgage that sloonie was a don based on the failed arrest trying to get him killed, people then went on to suspect me for it. i have seen scums slip over even sillier things.

i have seen people litarly go "this is my second scum game"

so yes i think tey are scum for that slip

A slip is one thing. Willfully saying you are presuming something is another one entirely. But ok.

I wish Zexy would show up. He's skating by so hard and I have questions for him.

PSI makes me cry.

ika wrote:i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

ika wrote:as for the rest, you really dont know me i make shit cases all the time, ts entirely why dotn to begin with

That does not excuse your from me suspecting you.

Where did Frog say this was IAWY's scum meta? Do you have quotes? I recall him saying his town meta was being a leader, and then IAWY objected this.

Inawordyes wrote:Haha so here's an example of someone with the standard IAWY thoughts.

I'm guessing you didn't catch up as thoroughly as you thought, because I explained why I was voting for Golden and why I disappeared (I went to sleep, kept the vote overnight since Golden didn't say anything about it before I left. I don't like the insinuation that I'm not doing anything or that I'm just out of touch with the game (I am, and I am not respectively), because that makes it easy to justify a lynch, especially if that's the main basis of your argument, which as written here is not that substantive.

Have you read the whole game thread?

Golden, Can you talk a bit about your reads on Ika dn Zexy, please?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Ummm, I think TMI in this case could also refer to a civilian power role.

Or VT making assumptions. Point is, it's a weak point for suspicion.

Scum the lot of you!

Why so many votes on Golden and Sloonei, and so few on IAWY and Ika?

Oh yes, and regarding the blantant PR hunting that is going on:



The setup will reveal itself with time when scum successfully kill PR. Let's not help them with that. The notion that MP or Sig TMI'd is such a stretch I can't even. Surely noone seriously believe that it is super likely that two scum would out themselves in such a blantant manner at the start of the day while having a whole night to prepare. The both gave account for their assumptions. The argument is weaksauce.

Caught up. Sorting my thoughts:

Ika: Your point about MP and Sig having TMI is really bad imo. Neither strikes me as players that would make that kind of mistake, why are you not taking this into account? In what world does it make sense for you for scum!MP who is on a team with a mafia vig to come out and start the day with "oh, must be mafia vig then"? If that was me I would sure as hell avoid doing exactly that and be super aware that I shouldn't be supposed to know what the extra kill meant, and I'm pretty sure this applies to MP too.

Furthermare both MP and Sig have accounted for what made them think as they did. Your attempt to play this off as TMI looks like an excuse to scumread someone and have something to argue, and I think you're smarter than that.

Question: Why did you say people had said this play by IAWY was his scum meta? Noone said that iirc.
What is your read on IAWY now?
What if there actually is a town vig in the setup?

---

Thoughts on IAWY: Is this guy trying to come off as scum? Seriously, there's so much that makes me go nooooo reading his posts. The point about MP giving reads on his ISOs is just so random to me. He accounted for that when he did it, it's all explained there. It's not very hard to understand. The cop redcheck comment is just wtf. His vote on Golden looks random to me as well, he says it's because he wants to dig into his null reads, and then he completely disappears. Is he even trying? I feel like he's not reading the posts in the game either. It's almost a too scummy to be scum situation to me here. Would lynch in a heartbeat.

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Marco: I don't know if it helps or what you are looking for, but for me I can fully see Golden's perspective regarding Frog, cause I pretty much shared it. Factoring into why I was fine lynching Frog was that he seemed to had stopped being productive (imo) and just came in and stated town should do such and such, this is the correct way etc etc, which didn't seem productive to me, and possible obstructive even - so that couple with the doubt is pretty much why I was fine lynching him over IAWY who hadn't said anything of value. Call it an error, lol.

I do see where you are coming from with your questions around Silver. I too thought Silver came across very towny, and had no problem with her intital MP vote. However, I can see town!Golden having a different view on this. It is also very different being the one in a two-way discussion like that and being someone watching it. I don't feel Silver was particularly easy to work with either if Golden is indeed town, and I think that might have intensified the situation. Your conversation about it and you calling it an "error" is just a matter of perspective and playstyle as I see it, and not very relevant. You see it as an error cause the "correct thing" is to go for scum and not town. Golden sees it as the "correct thing" because the right way to play is engaging with people to get reads, even if you are objectively wrong sometimes.

I feel Golden comes across as town in his conversation with Zebra and after. It all reads genuine to me. I don't know what else to say, but I can follow it as a town mindset. There is doubt in my mind, of course. I especially am puzzled by how Golden seems to avoid IAWY and not really giving a hard stance on him. It weirds me out a bit, but overall I think Golden is more likely town.

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Marmot is coming across more scummy for me for lighting fire under the MP suspicion without really owning it. Does he really believe that MP and/or Sig TMI'd? (See my response to Ika). He also furthered IAWY's "point" about MP giving slight leans on content he found mostly null. It's such a non-point to me, cause MP accounted for this and the whole point was obviously to try and get some kind of read on the lurkers.

---

Regarding Soneji I still take issure with his Sig read and how he doesn't seem to consider the motivation that Sig would have in trying to get him lynched. Furthermore I feel like Sig is not the type of person who would try to strongarm a Soneji lynch at EOD if he was indeed scum, and it also seems highly unlikely to me that Soneji really would be a lynch at that point when he finally had started contributing. In my mind there was no way Soneji would've been lynched at that point.

I want something else from Soneji, thoughts on other people etc.

I need to sleep. It's 6 am. What is life?

Inawordyes wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:Who is going to keep me sane this game?

Kittens. Always kittens.

Golden, I'm not sure I see how Sloonmatt is your strongest suspicion. I don't really find MM's initial argument against him very convincing, even after the revision (prompted but not intented by you lol). Can you sum up your suspicion or something?

Inawordyes wrote:Fair enough, I was going off memory so I knew I'd get at least one thing wrong haha.

I don't know what to make of it. It could be a slip up, but I'm more inclined to just see it as a genuine mistake. Haha I don't know, I don't have a strong reaction to it, sorry.

Hi.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Would you be able to rank your scum reads somehow?

What did you think of my Soneji ISO earlier?

I could, eventually. But I still feel I want to hear more from most of them (since they are all/most pretty quiet). It still feels unsolved to me in a way, if that makes sense. But IAWY is my prefered lynch, and my strongest suspicion.

I was so tired when I read the Soneji-ISO I don't really remember. Sorry. I do appreciate you putting in the work, and I will surely get back to it. Apart from that I've looked into his ISO on my own today to check up on things. I'm not convinced by him, he's a null I'm suspicious of. He could very well be teamed with IAWY if he is indeed scum. I don't feel his push on Sig is very good. Firstly because I feel Sig is a player that would be easy to push on (easy target, for various reasons), and two because the argument doesn't seem all that strong to me and gets a bit repetative. I don't think it makes that much sense for scum!Sig to push on Soneji of all people if Sig is scum. That being said, I don't think it's impossible for Soneji to be town doing all this either. So it's inconclusive atm.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I didn't; I said in other posts "assuming I survive the night" or something to that effect, just didn't add that disclaimer here. Seems I forgot. It was implied.

Yeah, I believe you. But you know:

Golden wrote:AtE?

Appeal to emotion.

The feelz. The feelz of mafia.

Golden wrote:No-one else should care about it enough to change their own decisions. There should merely understand that it will factor in to my decisions.

It's still AtE, because feelz!

MovingPictures07 wrote:Great minds think alike... but so do stupid ones.

Now imagine my face when Zebra calls me a liar for it.



Slightly exaggerated, maybe.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Dizzy, talk to me about Zexy.

Don't know if I have all that much to say. I need some answers from him. He's mostly in the unsure category. I'm always thinking I'm misgendering him.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Golden, if you're mafia and you said this, then I'm going to kick your ass after the game is over.

Slightly not game related: I thought the same thing. But then, one of my biggest mafia pet peeves is, there's nothing that should be more "ok" to say as town then as scum. That defeats the purpose of the game. It's AtE as either alignment, and if it is ok to do as town it should be ok to do as scum. Sometimes people excuse AtE coming from town, cause they really were town, so then it's ok. But if they turn out to be scum, then it's seen as "evil" or something.

Personally I don't care about Golden and his practicing agenda, and it won't factor in to any of my decisions in the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Soneji wrote:I've been reading IAWY as scum and sig as his potential teammate for his defense of him. MM I felt fine with at first when doing a quick ISO before the lynch last phase but hes said a few things that have pinged me, which I pointed out earlier:

Do you feel it makes sense for sig to try and get a EOD wagon on you as scum? It may makes sense if it was to save someone like IAWY, I agree, but still seems like a stretch to me. What is the reason you are voting sig over IAWY right now?

It's also not clear to me why you were voting Frog as the first person last day when you say IAWY had already pingen you? Can you elaborate what your thought process was? (I realize there will be hindsight to this, since Frog has already flipped).

MovingPictures07 wrote:Reading this conversation between Golden and zebra...

And this is me =

Yup.

Zexy wrote:Ignore the parts about Silverwolf and Long Con/Epignosis, I guess.

More later...

Zexy, Why did you include the stuff about Silver and Epig in your catch up in the first place?

Soneji, I'm totally not feeling your sig vote. What is your read on IAWY and MM? Which one of them if any do you think Sig could be teamed with?

MovingPictures07 wrote:There's a polls thread.

No cool graphs or anything like that though.

This is most helpful. Thanks.

Question: Is there any way to know how the votes looked at the end of day 1? Like, is it a chart saved somewhere or something? This poll takes some getting used to. o.o

sig wrote:I like this list, I'd bump sloonie up to null though. I believe Dizzy is town.

I like how I'm town once I agree more with your reads lol.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I put a smiley in the post because I was joking. I explained it again to Golden later that I was teasing him.

But yes, I have seen Golden scumslip before. It is a rare and amazing phenomenon.

Really? That emoji wasn't enough to convey to me that you were joking in any case. Especially considering your attitude towards Golden overall.

We do not joke about scum slips. Mafia is serious business. *is up at 4am and should really be doing a bunch of other things*

MovingPictures07 wrote:The sock is here!

MP! 1. Be town or I'll cry. 2. Keep me sane. 3. Load up on coffee and let's discuss reads, cause many of mine have flipped quite a bit.

Town: MP, Golden, Marco

Likely town: Zebra, sig, Zexy

Null: PSI (will he be replaced?)

All possible scum: IAWY, Ika, Wilgy, Soneji, MM, Sloonei

This is roughly where I'm at with my reads right now. Taking into consideration interactions and what other people say in my read on Sig. Zexy is not a strong town read, but I still feel it's more likely he is town. Obviously someone in the suspicion group is town.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:VOTE SIG

You're getting my vote sig until you respond.

Hopefully Golden this makes you feel more comfortable.

Linki: Hi! Well, I'm still voting you at least until you answer.

So, you think someone has scum slipped (Golden) and decide to vote elsewhere?