The Syndicate

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:39 am basically there's a lot of assumptions that would have to happen in the "tim got roleblocked" scenario and while I concede it's theoretically possible it always requires a lot of stuff to go haywire or act in odd ways.

and this is why you need to see that people are going to have to suspect you no matter what @Dyslexicon, there is no use complaining about how poor our logic is when you can't refute it, and going "I'm townie on play" when you've been slanking all game and "why would I make up such a stupid lie as mafia" when it seems obvious to me that for this gamestate to happen someone has to have made up a stupid lie (note: samu got caught because he made up a stupid lie) are just not good enough defenses to stop us from suspecting you when the POE is squeezes as tiny as it is.

also I don't know why you're so unhappy about being scumread given that you've self-admittedly not done much over the course of the game and there's a 50% chance we exe ted instead depending on night results anyway

1. This has nothing to do about me slanking this game. Using "you haven't done anything" against me is a non argument, and pure smearing. I've done what I can. I've tried to cooperate all I can. I used a track and tracked a roleblocker to Tutu.

2. I have refuted your "logic" up and down as far as I'm concerned. If you want to claim that it takes a lot of assumptions to say that Tim was roleblocked when I know for a fact that something happened to his block then right back at you times a hundred for your assumptions about me being mafia here. You have have to assume that 1) I'm an idiot that chose to lie for no reason. This IS a strong defence, and you shouldn't pretend it's not. 2) I chose to track Samu to Tutu and out the result because I hate my teammates. Notice also how hedgy Samu was about being clear about that result. 3) I'm an idiot who faked a role that gets verifiable results.

3. Why I care is if PoE is "You're about 50 % to be scum" then I know you're all about 50 % to be wrong about your PoE. I still hope you're not.

It's cool if it's Ted, I tend to think it's not. Sue me. Maybe it is. I trust Mac and Tutu to be absolute town, and I trust Juliets to be town. I don't know why SPF is town, but sure why not. You're probably town just due to the fact that faking cop is long term terrible. I have my doubts only because the claim just doesn't fit well to me. Whatever. Wilgy is town by your check. It might be Oddmerta tbh. Dya at least has a track. Mafia tracker, meh. I don't remember anyone else. LC. I don't know anything about him, I think maybe you checked him as well as Nanook.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:37 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:30 am You guys are making several mistakes in your reasonings

We don’t know “for a fact” that Tim roleblocked me.

Tim could’ve been roleblocked.

first of all there's no indication in samu's role that he has priority over tim's roleblock. if both roleblockers fire at the same time then tim would fire before samu's roleblock on him resolves. so unless there's a hidden rule that scum roleblockers go first, that doesn't hold water.

Where do you have this from?

I think a roleblock blocks another roleblock every time. ????

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:30 am You guys are making several mistakes in your reasonings

We don’t know “for a fact” that Tim roleblocked me.

Tim could’ve been roleblocked.

Hi. We're apparently supposed to thunderdome. We're confirmed scum to each other for some reason. I'm the godfather that lied about being a tracker, cause I thought that was very clever and I surely would get away with that. You're a strongman, but not one that kills. We are both lying, or at least one of us are. If you don't tunnel me, you're confirmed scum. But since I don't tunnel you, that also makes me confirmed scum. It's a scumundrum.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:29 am maybe dys just has a good tone as maf but im not really sring them

I have an excellent tone as mafia, but the whole reason I'm even here caring about this right now is cause I'm town. But whatever, I'll track Ted tonight, and if Wilgy can confirm me, we're all good.

And I have to go.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:55 amfrom ted's POV, knowing he was roleblocked, he would have to think that your track is a lie. you actually never tracked him anywhere but you falsely claimed he did to make tim look like a liar wrt his roleblock.

No. Because nobody believes mafia makes stupid lies that can be verified for no reason. This is how I came to see Tim in the end as well.

from your POV, knowing that ted went to tim, you would have to think that ted is a strongman who broke past tim's roleblock, since you know for a hard fact that ted went to tim.

No. That is possible, but more unlikely than Tim just being blocked or messed with himself imo.

I understand your argument, Alison. It's just a really bad argument. I can't make it any clearer.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:13 am Why do you care so much? If you're town we will find out.

Because I'm procrastinating work, which I really really shouldn't. AND because you use horrible horrible horrible terrible logic, that irks my very soul. It especially bothers me with Alison. AND I want to make sure that Alison is not scum here. It's so damn obvious that I'm town this game. There's so many things that makes me obvious town, from my claim, me outing Samu to Tutu, my whole play honestly, slacking as it might be. If I was in fact scum I would actually thunderdome Ted and be all shocked when he turned out town. Easy. If I was in fact godfather, I would obviously shut the fuck up about it and not give anyone reason to associate that to me, I'm not an idiot. There's a reason I win 90 % of my scum games. =p It just irks me. I'm not used to being in the line of fire as town. It only happens on syndicate, cause no matter how much I play here people just doesn't know me at all. But besides of me-things, it's really mind boggling to me that you think I would make up a verifiable lie as mafia. But go off and have fun. If you won't see my perspective, I can't do much more about it. I would say I'd find the last scum, but I don't have the time. So I'll just be making observations from the little I see and the interactions I have, which is what I'm doing now.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:11 am Dizzy is locked into targeting Ted. If Wilgy doesn't see him go to Ted and if Dizzy can't corroborate where Ted goes he's outed.

Deal.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:10 am One in Dizzy and Ted. One in Dizzy and Dya. Dizzy is in both must have scum pairs imo.

Ok. I'm ready to be Tim 2.0. It's pretty hilarious, cause it's extremely faulty. =p But it's ok. But don't cop me, cause I must be the godfather. Naturally.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:01 am Dizzy the reason it hasn't been cleaned up is because every day someone else has been a better yeet. We tried to clear it up with Tim. Herm got tracked to a mafia kill. Samu basically scumslipped. What day were we meant to have been going after you and Ted instead? The days we yeeted mafia or the other two days?

I'm not saying you should've been. I still don't see why we can't both be town. The conflict was more clear between me and Tim, and Tim was town. But somehow I for sure have to think Ted is outed scum, or else I'm like godfather specifically. Getouttahere. You're getting caught up in some weird assumption tunnel shit that doesn't make any sense fmpov. I'm town. I tracked Ted to Tim with Tim claiming a role block on Ted which I know didn't happen. I saw Tim flip town, which we all should've guessed because lol scum fake claiming a role block. So I know something happened with Tim. If the solution is that Ted has a "strong" action that isn't a kill, then great. Wonderful. I haven't seen such actions in a very long time if ever personally. You all can call it farfetched that Tim was blocked, but I don't understand why you say that. I also have confirmed information that Ted did indeed target Tim. If Ted comes up scum, then this is all moot. I would LIKE that to be the case, but it's not necessarily the case - and no, it "shouldn't be" fmpov.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:52 amif you and ted are both town then how do you explain the tim/ted/dizzy/wilgy conflict?

you claim that you tracked ted to tim. we know that tim roleblocked ted. if your track is right... shouldn't you be suspecting ted of being a strongman? like you bring up the probability that tim was roleblocked, but...

1) on N1, mafia know that tim is town and telling the truth about his role.
2) tim has openly claimed that his role is super useless on N1.

out of all the players in the game, you think samu chose tim to roleblock out of all people? okay, let's say 3P is a redirector and put samu on tim. or maybe samu had a bad feeling about tim and thought he was FPSing and secretly has a monster role.

do you weigh the % probability of this outcome being high? and if not why would you even be so uncomfortable with the idea that ted isn't town? we know the mafia have a strongman kill in some capacity. surely it would be a simpler explanation to assume ted is scum than to come up with a farfetched story about how samu roleblocked tim somehow, and then went first in the night action resolution order?

like if I'm town in your position I just go "ok flip ted then lmao". I don't have any fear because in my mind the simplest and most likely explanation is that ted is just strong. that was the conclusion that a bunch of people had and it's why we ran ted up.

You're making several mistakes here.
To your points 1) and 2) - I didn't know this.
Someone saying their role is useless isn't something I imagine mafia is going to blindly trust anyway. But whatever.

a) I'm not uncomfortable with Ted being scum. That would be great. Jeez.
b) Ted didn't use a strongman kill, cause Tim didn't die. Clearly it wasn't a kill. You can say a "strongman action that doesn't kill", but I've don't recall seeing any such action in any game I've played. Why is that (Ted having an unblockable action that is not a kill) more likely than Tim just being roleblocked? Cause that seems more farfetched if you ask me. And you are asking me.
c) There would be no issue of who comes first in the night action resolution. If Tim was indeed blocked it would resolve. There would only be an issue of order if two blockers targeted each other (though only theoretical, cause it would end up being moot). You can block a roleblocker.
d) What you're saying makes no sense.
e) Stop telling me what I should and shouldn't be thinking. If you thought this should've been so "obvious" to me, then it should've been obvious since like D3. I also believe Tim even thought he had info that "conflicted" with mine. Because thing is, any of us making a nonsensical, useless lie that accomplishes absolutely nothing made the least sense.
f) There are still unknowns in this game.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:38 amto be clear: we have strong reason to believe that one of dizzy and ted is lying. you're telling me dizzy has 0 suspicions on ted because "he's just not seeing it"?

also the mech reason to townread oddmerta is that oddmerta quoted some stuff from lotus flower which is possibly from the notification sent him by herm. herm only sends notifications to town people. so unless you believe that samu rolecopped herm and oddmerta is using that knowledge to whiteknight herm, you should believe oddmerta is town.

If you have strong reasons to believe "one of me and Ted is lying", then you should've had a strong reason to believe that for days already. Our claims has been out in the open for a long time. What are we even supposed to be lying about?

I need to check if it says in Herm's role flip that someone would be notified with Herm's song. If Odd is mafia, is there other ways he could know Herm's song? If Odd already knew Herm was town, it's not hard to go wink wink nudge nudge in thread. Blagh. I'm not clear on the details here, and I shouldn't even be here right now.

Also, I tracked Samu to Tutu, and Tutu was right that Samu was in fact the roleblocker. So I outed that, even if we didn't act on it immediately because of Dya's track on Herm. Tbh I don't even know why you yeeted Samu last day, I didn't read. But if that was a reason why, then give me creds lol.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:13 am Dyslexicon holstering on Oddmerta might be kinda outing too. If his claim is actually just fake or incomplete he might have just not been able to track Oddmerta at all?

God fucking damn it. Last time I checked the thread Oddmerta was mech cleared. My instinct was to think the opposite, then everyone told me how Odd was mech cleared town.

NOW I'm thinking that if Odd actually had the result of Herm checking his album and he was town, he should've fought way way way harder for Herm being town.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:31 amthere are mech reasons to townread oddmerta

but also why does it make sense for him to do it as town? why doesn't town dizzy just go "alright, I guess ted is the scum between us then, and poison's check will reveal he is lying"?

i mean, dizzy went on about how ted is probably town and that the thunderdome is "two town for the price of one". tell me again how town dizzy gets there on ted being town given the gamestate?

What the fuck? I don't know about Ted. I have no idea. I know he targeted Tim, and he said so himself. Tim at least didn't die. My opinion on Ted is a solid meh, but there's absolutely no reason why both me and Ted can't both be town. If I didn't think that I would've tunnelled Ted for a couple of days already. I think Tim was likely just roleblocked on N1, if that is possible. If not, I don't know. But me and Ted are not in a one off "one of us have to be lying" and haven't been at any point during this game. I actually know for a fact that Ted isn't lying about his target. So I don't know where you get that idea from.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:26 am I guess we'll find out after the game. anyways I want to hear your thoughts on the way dizzy suddenly went "this is bullshit. alison is scum" the moment it became clear that he was gonna thunderdome ted who was going to get checked.

I'm not saying you are definitely scum. I have no fucking clue, if that's not clear. But I severely dislike you saying "Mac says" when it surrounds something that clearly is very ill conceived, and I think you should know that. Clearly, I don't claim to be tracker, a role that can be verified in terms of the results it necessarily will give. And clearly I don't make up some useless lie about a track that couldn't have found place. You will have better luck trying to argue me mafia tracker or something. Do not claim I could have lied, cause I don't believe you believe that. And you didn't a few days ago. I don't see how that logic has changed for you. And I don't see why you need to see "Mac says".

I also absolutely dislike that you use the language of checking Ted to "get a better idea about Dizzy". You should check Ted in hopes he turns up mafia. Why are you ready to argue that I would be godfather for some reason, but anyone else who comes up town can't be? What I dislike is that this is very bad in the case that Ted is indeed town. I don't know though. Maybe he's scum, then great, forget I said anything. I've been riding rest of town this whole game, I've kind of had to. Sorryboutit. You all clearly have a better grasp on this game than I do. But I still have the right to call things as I see it and question when something doesn't sit right with me. And I still think cop is odd one out and a role that doesn't seem to fit this setup very much. I just do. Again, I might be wrong.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:20 amdyslexicon
- has openly done nothing, i was cutting them slack for this initially because i thought they would be trying harder as scum, but i am no longer giving towncred for that. if dys wants to be townread then he'll have to towntell like the rest of us

I'm definitely not going to be in a position to read this whole game and do whatever the coming days, but I've towntelled the whole game. You can read my iso, do whatever, consider my claim and find me town. It's very possible.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:13 amwhat is this tone switch the moment you realized you were thunderdoming someone who's going to get checked

Boo.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:12 amtracking ted is good. it means scum ted can't get away with roleblocking poison.

mac's point was simply that tim/ted/dizzy/wilgy are enmeshed in a fiesta of claims that involves at least 1 lie, maybe more. we know tim isn't lying as a hard fact, wilgy is checked green so he'd have to be exactly 3P or godfather. so on the balance of probabilities the biggest chance is that the liar is hidden between you and ted.

You just threw out I might be godfather, apparently cause I said you can check me. Oh wow, such godfather, such stealth, such smarts. Now Wilgy has to be "exactly godfather". Why is it more likely that I am and not Wilgy? I'm not saying Wilgy is scum, I'm just pointing out that you're fitting the facts to your narrative right now.

Also, why are you taking the route of "Mac's point"? What do you think about the claims and the action? What good would it do for any of me and Ted to make up a lie like that? Also, Ted "lying" isn't even a part of the equation. He did target Tim.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:07 am

Herm wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:45 pm Samusamu is one.

I don't really know about anyone else rn.

It would be one of Dizzie/Wigly. But Wigly was cleared by Poison.

@Dyslexicon are you the last mafia being a maniac?

I'm clearly town.

Honestly, I think the last mafia is Alison. I don't think we have a cop. You can all laugh at me, and we'll see in the end. It's not me.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:05 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:04 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:03 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:02 am Alison, why don't you cop me?

mac seems convinced there's a difference check between you and ted and ted is getting copped tonight so it seems like a waste

I don't understand what you're saying. Come again?

according to mac, either you or ted is lying. that means one person between you and ted is scum.

ted is getting investigated tonight by poison chan's lie detector.

therefore, if mac is correct, investigating ted is the same as investigating you, and there is no need to waste a cop check on you.

Why "according to Mac"? What do YOU thin, Alison?

An that is bullshit. Mac is a doll, but he's making fart noises there. I don't know Ted's alignment, but it's entirely possible that Tim was blocked that night and thus didn't perform his action.

Why is Ted getting investigated by Poison though? I mean, sure. But I'll also track him unless you want me to holster.

I want to know what you think, and not "If Mac is right", cause I'm town no matter Ted's alignment. This is a classic get two town for the price of one if Ted is town. Tell me why I've made the claims I have and gotten the results I have if I was mafia here. It's just a big nope. I don't care all that much, since we probably have time, but it's kind of just bad logic.

3p "townsiding" completely depends on what type of player, their play style and random circumstances. Nobody is a robot that plays an X percentage town or mafia siding as 3p. That reason is silly to me.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:03 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:02 am Alison, why don't you cop me?

mac seems convinced there's a difference check between you and ted and ted is getting copped tonight so it seems like a waste

I don't understand what you're saying. Come again?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:02 ampoison checks in the form of "is it true that X is the song Y", not a straight song cop. I'm not going to force oddmerta to out his claim since if mac is correct he has good town equity and might be soft cleared.

I disagree. And I also think he softed his song already. Why don't we just want the check? We don't even know if anything terrible happens if songs are claimed. Though, to be fair, they probably do lol.

Alison, why don't you cop me?

Yeah, maybe it's actually Dya. But she does have a tracker. If that is the case she got lucky with Herm targeting MR lol

Can't Poison check Oddmerta? He softed King of Limbs, so if he's a song from there, and that album has no scum according to Herm.

So we can check Oddmerta.
I can check Ted by tracking him.
Alison can check me if she wants.
Logic can check a fourth.

There are two songs on the Kings of Limbs album that reference flowers actually. Kind of.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:57 amSo from your perspective Tedxtr should be the lockest of lock right?

No? But he'll get tracked this night anyway.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:46 am The funny business from n1 with Tim roleblocking bs is you two. If Ted isn't mafia then you have to be imo. I don't see how you can both be town.

*intense fart noises*

I don't know how Tim got blocked or whatever, but I didn't claim that for fun, it's just what happened.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:43 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:42 am i would turbo ted right now if there weren't a pending mech clear on him, given the way he tried to push us off the samu exe lol.

Yes I'd say

1. Tedxtr
2. Oddmerta
3. Dyslexicon

Is the likely POE for the last mafia.

The 3p ... well I'm afraid it's me so I'll be winning as 3p here.

Putting me on this list is a disgrace. What have I ever done to you? =(

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:42 am

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:41 am any mech reason to clear odd?

Oddmerta softed Herm's role to him and it made Herm townread him.

If he got notified about the album check as described in Herm's role, should've he have fought like a hundred times harder against the Herm yeet?

Also, yes, welcome, Logic. Hi hi hi

You can post, but you cannot Hyde!

So we need to know Dyas role and then we have this game mech lock soon?

Nois.

This also confirms Poison as not mafia, I believe.
Shall I track Ted? Track will basically be investigation now.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:38 pm well daddy, im only being fair!

you asked for directions, and you were offered opinions

its completely fine if u disagree / have tinfoil / have a different PoE, but like, the original inquiry was you wanting directions right?

Sure.

I'll track Ted for no particular reason unless I change my mind.

I gotta teach my kids some manners. Scirrus also talked back to me today.

Actually, fuck manners. Just be mafia gods. That's more important.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:31 pmthen read the 178 pages of the game and tell us why its wrong

And thank you all for being the sweetest mafia players to ever exist. <3

What if the PoE is just wrong though?

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:43 pmdid you holster ur track on odd?

id track odd

but im not your big daddy mac that you want to be obedient for, im just a tutuu, so

I thought odd was cleared via Herm? Or semi-cleared? I didn't want to track him last night.

And no, but you are my daughter.

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:45 pmI'm so sorry to hear that

No worries. It's just life. <3

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:41 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:37 pm I'm putting my track on Wilgy for now. I think that's generally ok, if following consensus? Correct me if I'm wrong.

alison is getting her peek on him when the day ends so u should pick someone else

Oh. Oh. Ok. Ted again? Isn't Odd cleared? I'm so confusion. I want to say fuck it and track Alison tbh tbh =p

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:38 pmOMG your hair and your smile are like fused together to make the most beautiful person I've ever seen - I gasped when I saw you on the podcast.

This was 100 % me fishing for you to compliment me, because I've had a rough day. =p Thank youuuu <3

I'm putting my track on Wilgy for now. I think that's generally ok, if following consensus? Correct me if I'm wrong.

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:30 pmIs there anything we haven't discussed today that we should?

What are my best physical assets? My hair or my smile? Discuss.

dyachei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:51 pm

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:50 am Don't track me, try dyachei

i'm fine with that

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] Who shall I track?

Who shall I track?

How does town have 2 trackers, 1 tracker/watcher, 1 watcher and a cop? I know this is the question. I still feel like the cop is kind of the odd one out here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:53 am He tracks when he votes on a successful mafia wagon and if not he randomly watches.

Hm. Randomly watching sounds better tbh. =p

[mention]DrWilgy[/mention] Are you X-shot or no?