The Syndicate

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:51 pm i wont vote ender tbh

Why not?

The second best outcome today, after a mafia flip, is Ender town flip imo

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:46 pmYour top two suspects are me and Jay. Me and Jay are both serious contenders for today's exe. You should be feeling that wolves are under threat and eager to snap at misexes; what makes you think that they'd discount Creature as a way out?

I don't think either of you or Jay will be chopped today.
And neither of you can vote Creature considering your previous stances on him.

I'm not sure what I think of anything tbh.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:46 pmWelp do you think the falcon and DrWilgy mislynches happened without wolves' presence?

Falcon, not really, cause there were ton of votes there. But mafia doesn't tend to flock on crowded mischops necessarily.
Wilgy, perhaps. Since I town read both Fingers and Ender, who were alternatives.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:44 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 pm @Alison I feel like if you truly were very worried I was mafia, you should've went many times harder on me and dug into me and challenged me. I've felt nothing of that sort.

I have three people I think are more likely to flip mafia than you, maybe two depending on how you count finger. There is no thread support for your exe. If you are mafia I nab you by catching your teammates (ex. by flipping Ender red) or by showing that you are pushing horrid world views (ex. by flipping Jay green). And the two pushes I am most interested in today are... Jay and Ender.

I am fine with where you are. I think your alignment will become clear by tomorrow, honestly.

I think my alignment is already clear.

I think it's obvious Jay and Ender are not w/w.
Do you think there is at least one wolf among them?

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:42 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:39 pm @Creature You got to realise that town will be sussing you and voting you considering how you are playing this game right now. I would be much, much, much more suspicious of those who are town reading you if I were you. This includes Jay, Alison and Ender tbh. Just my take. "Wrongly voting me" is not a good reason imo

I look a lot like a juicy mislynch right now and a good parking slot for wolves to put their vote on without being questioned.

If you're town, I don't think wolves have to do even that. Pending Ender's alignment.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 pm I'm still hesitant to touch Alison today because I believe Mac is a good Alison reader and Seanzie immediately caught Alison in the Rave Master game. Mac had Alison as town and I don't remember Seanzie going after Alison this game.

Hmmmm

@Alison I feel like if you truly were very worried I was mafia, you should've went many times harder on me and dug into me and challenged me. I've felt nothing of that sort.

@Creature You got to realise that town will be sussing you and voting you considering how you are playing this game right now. I would be much, much, much more suspicious of those who are town reading you if I were you. This includes Jay, Alison and Ender tbh. Just my take. "Wrongly voting me" is not a good reason imo

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:36 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:33 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:32 pm Feels a lot like the falcon and DrWilgy mislynches which happened because of a seemingly lack of any other option.

Why don't we consider one of Alison and Jay then?

Ok who is most likely wolf between them?

I've been asking you the same thing lol.

I don't know. Right now I'd say Alison. An hour ago, I'd say Jay.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:33 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:28 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:25 pm Dizzy, what do you think about Ender generally following your vote pattern?

I don't feel any particular way about it. It doesn't make me feel bad about him.

I was just thinking that if Ender is actually mafia, one of the only people I could see with him is Nate. Like maybe Boq and you. I don't think he is with Alison or Jay, and I don't think both of those two are town.

That makes sense.

Fwiw, I did try to lead a wagon on him EOD1.

Oh right, so not you either. I kind of town read you for doing that at all.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:33 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:25 pm @Alison Who were the wolves who did the saving of whom? Is it me and Ender, the popular duo?

Ender and finger are the most likely saved people. You and Ender are my top suspects for doing the saving, yes.

Why did I not know you were suspicious of me before now? I'm holding hands with Ender this game as mafia teammates? Meh

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:32 pm Feels a lot like the falcon and DrWilgy mislynches which happened because of a seemingly lack of any other option.

Why don't we consider one of Alison and Jay then?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:25 pm Dizzy, what do you think about Ender generally following your vote pattern?

I don't feel any particular way about it. It doesn't make me feel bad about him.

I was just thinking that if Ender is actually mafia, one of the only people I could see with him is Nate. Like maybe Boq and you. I don't think he is with Alison or Jay, and I don't think both of those two are town.

@Alison Who were the wolves who did the saving of whom? Is it me and Ender, the popular duo?

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:20 pm Okay, spreadsheet stuff:

Day 1 Votes:

Spoiler: show

Day 2 Votes:

Spoiler: show

Waterfall:

Spoiler: show

EOD Wagons:

Spoiler: show

I need this

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:20 pmWhat do you think went on D2, if Wilgy wasn't meant to be a save? Do you think the other candidates under threat that day (finger, Ender, to a lesser extent myself) are all town, mafia felt comfortable with the gamestate, and then a wagon comp of primarily townies rushed through a last minute exe on Wilgy? That doesn't feel like what happened to me.

Yes, I see both Ender and Fingers as town.
Maybe I'm wrong.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:15 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:11 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:09 pmDon't ask me to vote for Jay if you can't deal with the pressure of forcing that wagon

I don't really know what you're saying here.

I'm frustrated that you seem to tinfoil me when I'm trying to entertain your desires in this game.

I love you and I am not voting you and I might vote Alison.

Out of Creature and Ender, who do you most like to see DEAD

@Alison Why is the wagon on Wilgy suggestive of a save? Sean called for votes there, and he was town. I voted after him, and I am town. Why was it a save?

@Boquise Not sure how you got that though. Because Creature was calling Falcon possible mafia while at the same time complaining that the direction was off. He was also entertaining Wilgy as possible mafia, while at the same time whining that town was not chopping mafia. I don't understand Creature's play at all at all if he's town here tbh.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:09 pmDon't ask me to vote for Jay if you can't deal with the pressure of forcing that wagon

I don't really know what you're saying here.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:06 pmAre you even trying to entertain my perspective?

Yes. I also feel like it's kind of outrageous for me to tinfoil you while doing it. Maybe I should stop

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:59 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:21 pm @Marmot Actually, what are your recent town and scum games?

Town Games:

Champs Game 4
Rave Master Mafia

Scum Games:

GOC 2021
Danganronpa V3 Mafia


The scum games weren't that recent, but I haven't actually randed scum in 6 months.

Thanks. Scum game link doesn't work, but I'll find it

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:59 pm i am not asleep

can anyone talk to me about my creature things

But what are the things? I can't draw any conclusions about it tbh

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:59 pm Dizzy, why did Boq's catchup make you say he was town?

I didn't read it properly since I was on the tram. I read it later, and retracted it tbh. I don't know anymore. I'm scared and all alone and I miss Sean

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:51 pm Give me a second. I am grabbing breakfast and am answering on mobile. I'm trying to juggle getting my food and paying attention to the game.

Ok. Understood. Enjoy your breakfast tbh. Mafia isn't that important, it just feels that way sometimes lol

@Alison You really have to answer how the hell you thought it made sense that Ender/Jay could be wolf theatre, when clearly it is not. Jay tried to get Ender killed on D2, and he does not do that if they are teammates. Clearly. So what gives?

@Alison Who do you think Ender is more likely wolf than Jay?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:47 pm I see I'm coming close to being the flip for today.

It's going to be a great time.

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:38 pmlets say jjj, alison, ender, fingers are town, also i am town so like tbh
who's scum iyo?

Well, I highly doubt all of those are town. So that's not really a question I care to answer.

I've official gone insane. But I'm happy or unhappy to note that the amount of questions Marmot is asking in this game does not deviate from what he does as town, it seems.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:28 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:19 pm

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:50 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:46 am

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:34 amWell I’m resisting the strong urge to do a personal/self vote atm; hopefully cooler heads prevail.

Where does this urge come from btw?

frustration and the smug self satisfaction that comes with ultimately proving someone wrong

@Alison Then you probably think this is scummy too. But I don't think it is for Fingers tbh

Surprisingly I have mixed feelings about this. The self vote doesn't move me, and I actually think it is a little scummy. The line about smug self satisfaction is not quite AtE in the sense that I use, and I don't think it's scummy. Specifically I think mafia doing AtE are more likely to bitch and moan about how they're being bullied and picked on and how it's making them feel awful. I associate the feeling of smugness from the grave specifically as a town sentiment, because they know their flip will vindicate them, and it's not one that mafia often bothers to replicate.

I don't know if I'd clear her for this. It's pretty easy to fake, especially if she has someone in scum chat coaching her. But I am willing to give her a tentative pass for it.

"Coaching" like this in scum chat rarely happens. It's something players refer to in game, and it really rarely happens ime. I think for Fingers, that she doesn't care enough to win as mafia or to dominate, to do this kind of emotional appeal. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I'm thinking.

My reasoning for thinking Ender is town is actually similar. I just don't believe he is worried at all about being flipped. This is probably more loose and vague for people. I also don't think any of his posts are scummy.

In fact, You, @Creature and @JaggedJimmyJay Can you summarise your case on Ender for me?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:17 pmMy read on Boquise is deeply spiritual. I gleaned it from the garnet crystal I keep next to my bed. Boq and I have a somewhat unique experience to draw from, and it's a single game (champs, season 7, semifinal 3). Boq had less than a good time in that game, and it kind of became a standard bearer for him as a descriptor of his "town self-worth". Just given what happened in that game and the conversations I have had with Boq since, I have a decently developed mental concept of what town Boq ought to look like in our next game. And I think he is starting this one in decent alignment with that mental concept. He seeks to put his turbulence behind him and solve the cot-damned game. At least that's my initial impression.

This is some time after the initial Boq town read, and this is what's been hunting me in thinking that Jay w and Boq v seems weird. Unless "deeply spiritual" is just a way for Jay to shamelessly pocket. It's funny how I have resistant to think it is, when I shamelessly emotionally pocketed Illario in Fleabag. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and it's just more of a joke, which the second line would imply tbh.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:20 pmI see the exchange. I generally think JJJ is one of the less likely players in this game to break down under pressure due to a flashwagon, and I also think it's less likely to happen if he explicitly calls out what he's doing. To that extent, I doubt this is an effective strategy, but insofar as it seems Marmot as tried this as town before, I don't think the act itself is NAI.

I think Boq has take more heat than me, but that's a quibble. I have a bigger concern about the broader idea that the person who takes the most heat out of the three of us is likeliest to be innocent; town has a bigger influence on the thread by definition, and sometimes suspicions are simply right.

However, I do not think that this associates Marmot and Jay. He is adding to the pressure/momentum on his partner, while framing it as being enough of a reaction test that he doesn't get much credit if Jay flips mafia. I would be more inclined to read this interaction as potential TMI-ing Jay town than partners protecting each other; if Marmot simply wants to shield Jay, there are less convoluted ways, I think.

I'm more so wondering if Marmot didn't know how to handle the suspicion on Jay. And when I at a later point noted and asked him about why he voted Jay when he clearly didn't want to (which was my words, and not Marmot's), that is when he explains it as pressure. Actually, he just explains it as "fleabag", which was a wildly different situation afaic.

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:18 pm when it comes to flipped players, Creature has been 100% correct so far

And 0 % on unflipped, if Lucy is town. So... that's yikes tbh

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:19 pm

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:50 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:46 am

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:34 amWell I’m resisting the strong urge to do a personal/self vote atm; hopefully cooler heads prevail.

Where does this urge come from btw?

frustration and the smug self satisfaction that comes with ultimately proving someone wrong

@Alison Then you probably think this is scummy too. But I don't think it is for Fingers tbh

Because I don't think she cares enough to be dishonest in that way

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:50 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:46 am

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:34 amWell I’m resisting the strong urge to do a personal/self vote atm; hopefully cooler heads prevail.

Where does this urge come from btw?

frustration and the smug self satisfaction that comes with ultimately proving someone wrong

@Alison Then you probably think this is scummy too. But I don't think it is for Fingers tbh

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:14 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:10 pm @Boquise How did you go from null reading Jay the whole game/early game to town reading him now after two town flips? What made you not town read him when many others were, also with meta on him? And what is towny about him now?

you should read my jjj town post, it is pretty cute tbh

I was kinda scared to make a read out of JJJ earlier because I felt like I could be pocketed. I did an attempt at D1 and someone, idr who, immediately said "scum JJJ could do that too". So I stopped. I read his posts and kept thinking "this could be written by any alignment". Your post some day ago about how he is emotionally town reading me early and you didnt think he'd do that as scum made me think a bit. Then the read evolved after his and mine interaction tbh

Yeah, I should double check the buddying part.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:10 pmWhat makes you think Jay/Marmot are aligned specifically? And why does the Ender read anchor the rest of yours?

I'm having weird inexplicable creepy feels about Marmot, a player I should town read if he's town. I think he might be out of scum range, but at the same time, I can't shake the suspicion. I also dreamt that I read the thread and was convinced Jay/Marmot was mafia. Yes, this is real. Marmot voted for Jay when me and Ender asked, but imo he's been hedgy about a read there and I felt that he didn't really want to vote there. I was not happy with the way he made it to be a reaction vote when I asked him about it later. He also said Jay is taking a lot of heat, when in fact, it was pretty much just me and Ender. Doesn't seem real. Jay's read on Marmot also feels like it could be on a teammate.

Boq/Jay interaction is also weird. Boq null reading Jay in spite of the thread is something I didn't notice, but it is striking to me now. Then Jay makes a whole case and a scum read on Boq. Boq ends up town reading Jay. Jay votes somewhere else.

Ender is the town read where I have probably made the biggest leap of faith. I don't see anything scummy in his posts really. I don't see who he would be teamed with. He doesn't seem concerned about being caught as scum at all. I just don't think he is. If this is wrong anyway though, my reads would obviously be a lot different.

@Boquise How did you go from null reading Jay the whole game/early game to town reading him now after two town flips? What made you not town read him when many others were, also with meta on him? And what is towny about him now?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:43 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:35 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:34 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Fleabag

What does that mean?

No, I'm really asking.

There was a point in Fleabag where Jay took multiple votes at the end of a day phase in the form of a flashwagon. I took the opportunity to support it to make it look like it had some serious momentum, both to gauge Jay's reaction, and to gauge the thread's reaction to seeing him as a wagon.

Jay's reaction at the time I found townie. I already thought he was town (which I was right), so perhaps I had conf-biased myself, but I thought it was a potentially useful exercise nonetheless. I don't remember much else from that event.

Seeing momentum here, I thought it could be useful to try said tactic again. Jay does look like he's had momentum building on him since mid Day 2 or so. I however think he's still performed just fine under that pressure.


Also, as I've said before, I think Jay is turning into the fallguy for the heat being put on the towncore, and I believe that makes it more likely a miss.

Wat.

That was a complete meme wagon, and Jimmay was never going over in that game.

Whereas here, the suspicion on him is very real.

Do you expect him to perform bad under pressure as mafia more?

Why do you have that feeling, that he's the fallguy? Ender and me have pressured him, Alison to a lesser degree.

I mean, someone who isn't caught up and peaks at the poll doesn't know that

I've already explained it. Boq/jjj/Alison keep getting mentioned as a group, and Jay is taking most of the heat of that group

Boq had taken some.

Alison has taken next to none.


What do you think about that

@Alison I'm getting really bad feels from this whole exchange in regards to Jay/Marmot

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:01 pm This vote count looks atrocious. It's three hours to EOD and we have four different wagons with two votes each. I would like some consolidation.

My preference order for these wagons is Ender --> JJJ -> Creature -> myself. I am surprised fingersplints has received no pressure. Was she incredibly townie while I was gone?

[VOTE: EnderWiggin] aubergine

She did a AtE. You would probably not call it townie.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:57 pm Good morning. I apologize for not being around; I had a terrible migraine that made it difficult to focus, and went to bed early in the hopes of recovering from it. I feel better now.

I realize it is only a few hours to EOD, and I am not caught up yet. If someone could fill me in on any major happenings, or ask me any urgent questions they have on their mind, now is the time.

So many questions. So much pain.

If Fingers is mafia, why are you not killed, why Sean instead? Can you ISO her? I think she's town.

Which makes your direction this game very questionable.

I've gone insane and my PoE is basically Jay/Marmot/Creature/You, with a side of ? maybe Boq with Jay, but Boq not with you.
Is that insane? I know I'm asking you and you're in it.
I really have a heavy feeling that Jay/Marmot could be two in the scum team, but at the same time I think it's kind of wild that I think this. They are certainly playing well if they are. Wanted to go hunt for past Marmot games. I already feel I should read him well, so it's a bit weird.

If I'm wrong about Ender, everything goes to shit in terms of my reads.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:51 pm I have given it some thought, and I believe it's most likely that Dizzy is town. I don't recall seeing him go into this kind of tunnel mode as mafia (indeed, my memory of his mafia games is that he's more agreeable and more turbulent). Regardless, if I do go over today -- he needs to be held accountable and answer to every shred of dialogue that he has discarded from me today. Likewise, in a world where Ender is mafia, Dizzy's equity skyrockets. We're too far along for vibe reads, so make sure you take on the task appropriately, town.

:cri

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:45 pm trying to figure out Dizzy's wolf agenda in being so openly flip-flopping with me

maybe it is a hope that if dizzy flips before me i would look bad?
But my impression of Dizzy is that Dizzy does not play wolf to get yeeted.

so like this is also not helping their case in pocketing me.
Therefore the need is to uh look like they are fake concerned about me? I guess?

Or they really are paranoid about me
Is hard when I dont have much to work with there :wowee:

I'm very flip-floppy as town, if that helps.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:46 pm I should be around toward the end of day, but I do have a lot of things pulling at my attention and it's possible I end up in a work call.

Please join me and Lucy for some openwolfing.

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:43 pmhelp me help you tbh

Well, I was just going to go hard on the ego tell tbh. "I'd never lose at wolf here" etc. Hardly ever see wolves say that when there's stakes. It's boasting and a lot to lose. But then you said specifically that you'd do it as either alignment. So unsuuuure.

You have some weak reasonings regarding
- Why me and Marmot are not teamed
- Why Ender is town (being stubborn)
- Why Fingers is town.

Which is fine. I probably have tons of weak reasoning too.
What would potential teams look like for you? Is it possible for you to state a PoE right now?

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:41 pmwho of the players are you referring to?
What posts exactly?

It's me. I'm openwolfing.