The Syndicate

I will have to replace out of this game, unfortunately. Life hit me in the face, and it wasn't pretty. I hope I'll return when things have calmed down. Have fun!

thellama73 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:47 pm I voted to protect Dylexicon, because I like Dyslexiscon.

*blushing like a virgin bride*

Daw - I totally forgot to vote, but I would OF COURSE have voted to protect you, since you're so sweet and fun and I'm all about the alliances.

Serious question - Flips don't show alignment and role? How am I supposed to make sense of this game? Is this normal? o.o

I will catch up for real when I'm not hungover anymore. Rawr.

Wazzup?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:35 pmIf you are trying to claim your innocence by presenting me with a skeleton key regarding how you play when you're good and how you play when you're bad, as though you aren't capable of emulating the former in the latter situation, I'm sorry:

That's fine. Call it NAI then. Or call it scum. Call it whatever you like. I'm trying to level the best way I know how. You decide what to do with that, obviously.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:27 pm I need to go to bed.

Before I do, I need to get this off my chest: Epi, if you happen to care about what alignment I am - If you try to fit me in the form of what YOU think is logical to do as a player you will fail to understand how I play and therefore fail to read me. When I left the thread you had thsi accusation that I should've waited for Nut to respond (I'm assuming that's what you're picking at) because I said I wanted to see what happen. I DID want to see what happened (the reason I chose Nut was because then she would be the biggest wagon which might've been fun), and then I wanted to see what happened when I voted you instead. I have many many many town games where I'll change my vote within minutes (and probably seconds) because I just change my mind or have many ideas/directions I want to go. This may not be the way YOU think or approach the game, but if you're trying to find a straight line in my play on D1 you will fail. I'm actually way more "consistent" when I'm mafia, cause then I actually care about that stuff. I feel I've had this conversation before on this forum. If you happen to be town in this game, and we play in a later game and a similar situation appears, I will be sure to remind you of this time. Clearly we have very different approaches, cause I can't wrap my brain around how you would ever find that actually suspicious at all - much less call it a straight out lie. You're not inside my head. But you could try, and I'll try the opposite. So that's what I have to say about that.

This could also just say: I'm fickle. Get over it. Plus - shouldn't that be obvious by now?

I need to go to bed.

Before I do, I need to get this off my chest: Epi, if you happen to care about what alignment I am - If you try to fit me in the form of what YOU think is logical to do as a player you will fail to understand how I play and therefore fail to read me. When I left the thread you had thsi accusation that I should've waited for Nut to respond (I'm assuming that's what you're picking at) because I said I wanted to see what happen. I DID want to see what happened (the reason I chose Nut was because then she would be the biggest wagon which might've been fun), and then I wanted to see what happened when I voted you instead. I have many many many town games where I'll change my vote within minutes (and probably seconds) because I just change my mind or have many ideas/directions I want to go. This may not be the way YOU think or approach the game, but if you're trying to find a straight line in my play on D1 you will fail. I'm actually way more "consistent" when I'm mafia, cause then I actually care about that stuff. I feel I've had this conversation before on this forum. If you happen to be town in this game, and we play in a later game and a similar situation appears, I will be sure to remind you of this time. Clearly we have very different approaches, cause I can't wrap my brain around how you would ever find that actually suspicious at all - much less call it a straight out lie. You're not inside my head. But you could try, and I'll try the opposite. So that's what I have to say about that.

Oh, it's night already? Lol.
Was Wilgy town? His character should be town? Don't alignment show here?

Who wants to vote Epi with me? \o/

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:51 pmIt's a balance of things known versus things unknown. Because of my role PM, I know the word civilian is there and that INH used it. But I have never to my knowledge played an INH game, and people keep saying they are different, and if I can be quite honest, I don't know if I've ever played a Heist game, either, so the balance of those last points is that I do not know what terminology INH would use for bad guys. Would the word baddie be there? Or just bad? Or mafia? Or mafioso? It's a bit more grey, thus I put less weight into the idea that LC just somehow missed the word civilian in his role PM because there is at least a chance that the alternate words (especially if he is a true LMS indy type role!) may not be as traditionally eye-catching for someone who is skimming.

Alright, that's fair I guess. Since we shouldn't really quote exact words from PMs I'll just remain sceptical of one small technicality that you are mentioning. I have my role PM as well to map out LC's mistake from - all in all I think it's very hard to speculate about what a different person would or would not make as a mistake. He certainly would not knowingly as scum go out and say the game is LMS - maybe as a true neutral or lone role since he already assumed it to be LMS from the signups. Most likely I think he's telling the truth about not knowing his role - which doesn't say all that much about what it actually is.

@Timmer, I meant to ask you - You earlier said you found it hard to believe that LC would miss his "civillian" from his role PM. But dt if you think he'd not miss the civ, do you think it's likely that he would miss that he is mafia with X, Y and Z? Someone else brought this up (can't remember who), but haven't seen you comment on it.

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:37 pm@Dys, I'm a product of my age, so I'll go with male pronouns as a default until corrected, then?

Sure.

I think Nut is town. Sue me.
Dharma seems ok.

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:19 pm Oh, and special bonus marks to dys for posting a Latrice gif... brings back memories of the greatest laugh in the history of television!

Yay - someone gets me! Also, I'm whatever gender you'd like me to be, you can just pick one.

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:18 pm Ok, so a few things. I'm intrigued by the fact that dys generally disliked the fact that I had made comments about LC but had placed my vote on him in stead (or are you a she? a ze? ) but meanwhile he talks of liking to move his vote around to get reactions. Why not see that my vote was for a similar reason? Why dislike a vote that has been made in the same spirit as your own gameplay? It's interesting.

I actually don't think I disliked it specifically and don't think I've said so? I asked you cause I was curious, it didn't make sense since you seemed to think LC was explicitly non-town. You said for reactions and lulz which is honestly fine by me. I will expect your vote to end up on the person you argue as the least likely town in the end anyway.

As for being mentioning that something is good enough for Day 1, I don't like that that was taken as a dismissive statement. In a game where votes can be moved, and in the midst of someone seeming to stumble, me voting early and then saying that is a good enough reason for that moment is fine, I think?

Sure - but there should always be an interest in digging deeper and clearing up - that is my point.

Whoever is posting only in haikus or whatever, I'm not reading your posts, so I hope you aren't actually trying to play that way for realz.

Haikus are lovely.
But sometimes they don't make sense.
Refrigerator.

Lol, I didn't even notice Timmer posting. Was distracted by being mind blown.

Wtf, are you kidding me with this? Nut didn't show up, I don't control that. It's in any case not just about Nut. Maybe someone else will hop on her wagon, or comment on it, or whatever. And then I got an idea to vote you instead, so I did, cause frankly I was bored. I'll move my vote around all day, and it's not A-B-C cause and effect style in my brain in case you haven't noticed.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:48 pm Why did you vote nutella and then vote me?

Because I like to move my vote around a lot to see what happens. Especially D1. I don't feel I have a very clear place I want to place it atm actually. Why does it matter?

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:23 pm I think this has been a good Day 1 so far.

I have like waaaay many null reads, and lots of people aren't talking - so meh.

G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:27 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:20 pm
How presumptuous of me. See, Dyslexicon, I am but a casual player here and thought you joined only recently. I can see from your member profile that you joined back in autumn. That's possibly long enough to get accustomed to many of the regulars you now find yourself sparring with. It actually makes me trust you less now.

Yeah, I know a few. I've played about 4 games here I think. Can you clarify what your distrust is about? Your points were very abstract/loose. I'm obv!town btw.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:04 pmDunno. Wasn't paying attention to the timing.

K.

Dunno.

Mh. Would make a difference.

Someone said he wouldn't vote for me. It's hardly an offer.

Alright.

What are you hoping to learn from this line of questioning?

More about LC and how seriously you're taking this "deal" stuff. You seem to take it seriously for me/LC even when we never had any "deal.

---

@LC, Am I right in assuming that you offered the deal to Epi before you knew this was not an LMS game? Or no?

Apart from this one question I'm pretty done with the deal stuff. Seems based on a lot of different misunderstandings. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Epi - LC gave you a deal offer not to vote you until the final five, and you said "works for me" or something like that. And then it all went to shit in thread. Is that right?

Did LC offer the deal before or after he was made aware that this is not an LMS game?

Why did yu accept the offer in the first place?

POPPY!

Sing me a song about LC and Epi - it will be a hit!

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:31 pmSecond, Dyslexicon followed DH's vote against nutella quickly, and then, when LC made a move against me, joined his vote. Dyslexicon doesn't give me the impression of effort toward finding mafia. Neither does LC. He voted for me because I'm apparently a hypocrite (who still hasn't voted for him). I think he got spooked that I was going to come after him. And as for the being a hypocrite part, I criticized people making deals with a truck ton of people, not making deals in general. And frankly I don't give a shit if I'm a hypocrite. I do as I please.

1. I am very much trying to find scum, whether or not it's in the way you recognise or not. I will contest I'm one of the player having actually engaged with people for that exact reason.
2. I move my vote around a lot. I like it. It's a tool to find scum. It will end up on who I think is the best lynch.
3. Did you get that I never made any deal?
4. Can you clarify your correspondence with LC?

Third, Dyslexicon just witnessed Long Con's vote for me and apparently there's something between them now. I maintain there was something between them all along.

You really can't take a joke, can you?

Fourth, the new Power Rangers movie was ass garbage.

I'm not surprised.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:02 pm Lots of drama coming out of Day 1. i don't know whether to feel sad that I didn't really have a hand in most of it.

It wasn't my fault, I swear! *holds back inappropriate joke*

G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:32 pmHeh. Already working on that.

Of the two, I feel less inclined to trust Dyslexicon. LC's gaffe doesn't fit his nature if a baddie but he's a wily one and could easily be an indy that done goofed. To me, it looks like Dyslexicon is stumbling through all the new faces and the methods and biases that come with them. The punchy factor doesn't help Dys's cause but I don't know Dys at all (or his/her gender), so I'm forced to work with generalizations.

I'm totally trustworthy, just like Llama. Can you clarify the outlined? Cause but I know me and my gender, and maybe we could have a heart to heart about us two in this game.

thellama73 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:44 pm I'm trustworthy. Everyone trust me.

Of course you are. A Llama would never hurt anyone.

I'm going to sheep LC's vote instead, because we're bffs and I'd like to hide behind his vote since Epi is giving me so much pressure. Wink wink.

thellama73 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:29 pm Oh isn't open BTSC fun? I have a deal with someone, but I'm not saying who. Yet.

The devil?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:08 pm Voted for Nutella.

Sheeping.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:04 pm No thanks I know what you do when people PM you stuff

Have drama happen?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:57 pm Well I got bad news INH

I already solved your game and know exactly who the baddies are.

PM them to me, and I'll send them gifs of angry cats.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:49 pmIt's "something I'm taking note of on Day 1" because Day 1 reads are generally just preliminary. I do not have a fully formed read on you or anyone else, but this is a thing I've observed which may indicate scumminess on your part. It is not a cop out. I am embracing and pursuing it as an avenue for questioning right now.

Fair enough. And to be semi-hypocritic, the wording of it is just of note for me too, since Timmer mentioned the same. My point is more I don't personally agree with a "oh well, good enough for D1"-attitude (but I get from this post that was not your intention). I of course understand that D1 reads are preliminary.

What does this mean?

Just that our dynamic is very different from how I remember it in the past, don't think I've ever gotten much suspicion from you, so I need a new map to read that and the intentions. I don't see how me getting into discussions with people and drawing attention would suggest scum for me, but you said it came across hyper defensive. So I guess I'll wait for others perspectives if they are offered, cause I can't see it myself.

And really, everyone is of interest to me.

@Nut, I don't want to lynch Llama?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:00 pmYes. Your responses to Epi seemed to scream "Don't look at me! I don't like this!". It is similar to how I responded to early pressure in my one and only scum game on this site. You are not me, but it's something I'm taking note of here on Day 1.

What have you got out of your questioning of timmer?

Huh. I will be interested in hearing other people's perspective on this, since I am me and can't see myself from the outside. I'm not a player who's shy, I've played a hundred mafia games and am not afraid of "pressure" as town or scum, though I tend to blend more as scum. I can be intense and vocal for sure. Additionally, with Epi specifically I think we have quite different thought processes, which is something I've noted in the past. I've wanted to understand where he was coming from, and would actually like to hear more from him.

I don't particularly like your "something I'm taking note of here on Day 1". It's similar to Timmer's "good enough for Day 1". I think it's a cop-out.

What I got from Timmer was that I had a hard time follow his thought process of how LC was guilty based on his LMS comment (something you also contest). I also don't like what seems to be disinterest in going deeper into the situation to understand it or exploring other possibilities. Refering here to both the comment about that he will probably vote LC later, and the general standoffish "you know what I mean" vibe. I don't know Timmer as a player. That said I'm suspicious here. I'm also waiting to see more.

And you've caught my interest with this.

Most players have not made an impression so far, but I think there's still plenty of time before day ends.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:56 pm LC's LMS slip indicates to me that he's not scum. It is least likely that he'd misunderstand a rolecard that says "You are mafia, and your teammates are A & B." He could be a true LMS role, but this is a Heist, we can only have 3 non-vanilla roles. Would INH use one of those 3 slots on a LMS rogue? Genuinely asking.

I'm reading LC as town. Dizzy as an early suspect. Wilgy also made an early post in which he asked who or what we were hunting this game. I wanted to follow up on that.

Do you have thoughts on Timmer and his thought process on LC?

*scratches Speed behind his left ear*

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:50 pm I'm all caught up. I do not like the way Dyslexicon went into hyper defense mode at the first hint of pressure from Epi. It reminds me of myself in Watchmen.

I was out all weekend, worked all day yesterday, and will be working all night again tonight. I'll be a quiet person for most of this phase, unfortunately.

Hyper defense mode? Really? I don't think I've been defensive at all. It turns out I made a joke I forgot about that I cleared up. Otherwise I've been focusing my actual energy into questioning Timmer and being impatient for players to join the fun.

What do I have to do with one of your scum games? I've had both town and scum games on this site, and you've been present at least for one town one.

This puzzles me a lot.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:43 pmI'll reciprocate this action.

It could've been a beautiful marriage, or at least a summer flirt. Now it's all ruined. =(

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:30 pmYour post was all jokes.

Imma vote you!
Also, write many words please. I'm impatient and stuff.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:51 am Hm. I believe LC and Dys are telling truths.

Hai, Nut! \o/
Any other thoughts? Any alignment leans?

thellama73 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:33 am ALl in favor of voting to lynch the most annoying player?

I'm so dead. o.o
Also - Llama! \o/

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:24 am
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:05 am
I am confused by this.

If you think he actually IS an LMS role, then he would not have baddie teammates. So why are you voting for Dizzy?

At this point, mostly for the lulz. If nothing else happens I'll more likely vote for LC.

Do you have thoughts on anyone else?

I've actually played a game where everyone was VTs on D1. I kind of don't want to think about it... but. o.o

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:38 pm This is mafia, homie. Everything is serious (and also not).

Well, it was a joke from my side ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you're saying everything in thread can and should be considered into figuring out alignment, then I agree.

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:32 pm @Dys:

I think LC has played mafia long enough that the word civilian in a role description is not something that he would have missed. So I surmise that it is possible that his role does not have the word civilian in it. Also very possible is that LC actually IS an LMS role. Whatever he is, he may legit be what he thought the game was. His role could say "must be last one left" or something, and thus he thought that was everyone's boat because that is what he thought the game was.

Either way, NO, I do not think LC knew he was anti-town and chose to play like this. I think he just missed that he is not civilian and/or is an LMS role and goofed in thinking that that was the norm.

As for why my vote is on you? Because it seems to bug you.

That makes more sense than what I have gathered earlier, the fact that he would miss the civ out of it all.

Still. If he is an LMS role the action he took does not make sense to me. The natural response to being an LMS role is not to assume that everyone is. This leads me to conclude that whatever LC's role is he just didn't know before he posted and assumed he had no role so all was up in the air. The point that his eyes should've recognized the civ is the fairest so far.

What's bugging me is trying to figure out people's mindset. I've played enough mafia games in my life to have be voted before. Some people here would know lol.

So in case this is still unclear - Deal-gate:

- I was offered a deal by LC when he said he thought it was an LMS game.
- I declined and said it's not an LMS game because I'm towm.
- LC says he didn't read his role properly and then claims town and role, and asks me what role I am, which I don't answer.
- I make a joke in thread saying I lurv LC and let's totally not vote each other.
- LC takes this seriously and says he won't then.
- I forget about it because I thought it was so clearly a joke, but it seems LC and Epi took it seriously.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:29 pm When I have the time to read this shit I'm sure it'll be fuckin' dope.

I'm entertaining for all the wrong reasons.

@LC - Why run with that offer? The paranoia is not with you, man.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:22 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:30 pm [snip]

I lurv you, btw. Let's be friends and never vote each other before Day 5. \o/

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:38 pm[snip]

I did PM a couple of other folks, with basically the same offer. But those offers are not really valid anymore, because it's not a LMS game. I do like Dizzy's friendly attitude about it though. I guess I'll refrain from voting Dizzy for the first five days. (Although my offer was more like "until we're in the Final Five"... a concept that isn't the same in a regular Mafia game).
Well, Dizzy, here's the exchange. It's not a "thing about me not voting you", so much as you saying "Let's be friends and never vote each other before Day 5. \o/" and me saying "Sure, why not". What part of our earlier exchange is giving you trouble? Why am I the one "clearing it up"? You were there. You clear it up for me.

Oh, loooool. Fuck, that was clearly a joke based on our PMs. Or, "clearly", I thought. I forgot about that entirely. To be clear: I make jokes! This was not a serious offer.

@Epi - I see where you got the deal thing from now - I apologize. I thought it was clear that it was a joke, and I didn't remember saying it.

Wtf with these deals?

@LC - Now would be a good time to clear up that thing about you not voting me for however long. Why? You claimed town to me.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:10 pmI love defending civilians when I'm bad. It grants so much mileage.

Should I descipher this as you thinking I'm scum and LC is town? Or is it something else?

I can't vouch for LC, but I see no reason why he would go into the thread assuming this to be an LMS game if he knew he was anti-town - do you?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:08 pm My thing here, LC, is that you make these deals, but you can't honor them. Already Dys has two votes and you have one, but you won't vote to save yourself, I imagine (although I think you would).

My point is this: You two advertised early that you have a deal between you. If this is an LMS game, then I have a motive to break up that public deal.

If this is an actual Mafia game, then I have a motive to break up that deal (given my previously stated suspicions).

I have not advertised that I have a deal with LC - gurl plz.

I don't have any "deal" with LC - his offer was moot to me since this is not an LMS game.

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:54 pm @Dys, I think you understand me fine

No, I don't. That's why I'm asking.

Here's the thing based on what you've said:
- I take it that you assumed LC to know that he was anti-town.
- With this information LC chose to go into the thread claiming this was an LMS game.

My reaction to this is, why the hell would LC go into the thread claiming such a thing that would obviously draw attention if he didn't believe it to be the case?

I think there's very little chance that LC was lying about not knowing his role. I think he assumed this to actually be an LMS game, what would be the benefit of claiming it otherwise? Unless it was some sort of weird instigator/reaction fishing (which honestly I could see myself doing because lol).

This, however, does not say much about what role LC actually is after checking it. It just says to me that he thought it was LMS and was mistaken.

What I'm getting from you is that I have a very hard time understanding your thought process here. You seem to think LC basically willingly gave himself away as anti-town at the start of the game. This somehow makes you vote for me, and you claim this to be for reactions. You also seem evasive in my questioning.

If you are town, where am I mistaken in my reasoning?

@Epi - I'm not concerned about getting voted, I'm concerned about what processes are behind that. So thanks for sharing that. Obviously I don't know what goes on behind the scenes and who PMs who, that is all new to me in a game. So you're saying LC PMed you with a LMS-type deal after he offered one to me? Cause to me he said that he now can see that he is town and that he missed it first time around. So he denied the LMS thing altogether to me.

What I'm wondering is what this all really has to do with me? I didn't choose to get a PM from LC, I responded how I saw fit. He first wanted to make a deal. Then later sent a PM that was like - oops, didn't read my role properly, I now see I'm town. I shared everything I learned in thread. Why does your opinion on LC depend on my alignment?

What I'm questioning is what intentions LC would have if he knew he was not town to go out in the thread and say it was an LMS game and then go back on his word? What would he gain from that if he was scum? That makes no sense to me. This is why I'm questioning Timmer's thought process on this.

What I'm not getting a sense of is what LC's offers and PMs has to do with me, other than that I got PMs and shared them in thread?

/I agree LMS games aren't mafia games. I have a town role and I assume there are mafia or the likes to find.

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