The Syndicate

Nice job.

Gavial wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:11 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:09 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:04 am I'm about to head to bed.

GTH Miz/Gira/LC/Tess?/Nanook? contain at least 2 scum.

Tess and Nanook were townreads but now I wonderin
I’ll probably sheep this, cause it seems similar to my overall impressions. Unless tinfoil lol. Not really actively suspicious of Nanook, though he shouldn’t be ok chopping me as town here, I feel.
You act as if your obvious town.
When I don’t even think your town.

Link me an example of one of your town games

I think my last town game was Bluey (Heist) a while ago.
Last scum game Fleebag (The previous Heist)

Good luck.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:05 am Waht do you think of the great Wisp Wars

Their vote on me is terrible. Mixed feelings otherwise. Gut says they’re town for how they react to Alison. But I have no idea (in general in this game, sorry)

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:04 am I'm about to head to bed.

GTH Miz/Gira/LC/Tess?/Nanook? contain at least 2 scum.

Tess and Nanook were townreads but now I wonderin

I’ll probably sheep this, cause it seems similar to my overall impressions. Unless tinfoil lol. Not really actively suspicious of Nanook, though he shouldn’t be ok chopping me as town here, I feel.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:00 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:56 am @EnderWiggin Kind of feel you should be able to tell I’m not scum here, but I fully may be asking too much lol
I ain't voting you chief.

I have a random side theory but it's all tinfoil

I feel friendless and abandoned. Which isn’t that weird probably =p

@EnderWiggin Kind of feel you should be able to tell I’m not scum here, but I fully may be asking too much lol

Sure. Chop Mizery if you want to. I’ll self pres if I’m here and I still have a woweewagon.

But probably explore other options as well.

Don’t forget my Alison/Lucky connection in case that becomes relevant at some point (if one flips scum). But also probably don’t think too much about it lol

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:33 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:17 am I’m going to vote Tess because I don’t mind having a vote there.

I’m chosen as scapegoat target for people who don’t know me quite often. Don’t know if this is what’s happening here. And I realize this vote probably doesn’t have impact as I also haven’t actually read any other of her posts. But at least I don’t feel bad about voting there.
Just vote Mizery please.

Yeah I think Tess read on you is a bit shallow but it's hardly wolf indicative and no one else will go there anyways.

I’m not really feeling it only because of that one post I saw that seems like only town would say. But I might be wrong. But I’m voting Tess for now.

Why are people setting up there’s scum in me/Alison? Because SEtHHHh?

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:31 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:02 am
Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:57 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:32 am Did anyone come up with anything great?
Mizery probably wolfing, don't really understand your votes.
What about my votes? I don’t really feel like I have much. Also am not at all caught up and might not get there today anyway
I mean the votes on you, not the ones you've placed-- although that is i suppose interesting too

Just make people explain themselves. If Tess is justifying her vote in the way I think she is, I think it’s directly scummy imo.

Just to be clear: I’m at work now and I have plans afterwards. So it’s not like I’m bailing this game.

Wait. @tessepia Is your “meta” your using on me the recent game on PerC where I literally didn’t even read the thread? And you sell this read of yours off as a rationale?

I wish I had time to slap you all. I wish I could see if there’s people here who actually know me who cares to offer any insight from their perspective. And I really wish I had time/energy to get into the game to get a firmer solve of this today. But I likely won’t. So good time to mischop me before I do. I recommend it. \o/

@Wisp You will need to explain with your own words why I’m the most likely scum to you.

I’m going to vote Tess because I don’t mind having a vote there.

I’m chosen as scapegoat target for people who don’t know me quite often. Don’t know if this is what’s happening here. And I realize this vote probably doesn’t have impact as I also haven’t actually read any other of her posts. But at least I don’t feel bad about voting there.

tessepia wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:36 am I may as well explain why I didn't like dyslexicons entrace

I've seen them town once (didn't read a single post from them in team mafia) and their general approach was "I don't care lol do what you want"

As a wolf they were much more eager to get on people's good sides

They were obv slanking in the town game pretty hard but I think that kinda mindset is still transferable and their town reads early on didn't feel like real reads and the interactions with the people they town read felt like "look, I'm town reading you, we're all townies isn't that nice" in a weird way

That's what I remember from my attempts to read yesterday, at least

Lol, you don’t know me at all.
So please don’t pretend that you do.

I work on instinct, but was (pretty obviously) not dead serious about my first reads and a lot of what I say. Which is normal. I’m trying to dive in and get a feel. Sometimes that gets me somewhere. This game just made me shut down because so many of the dynamics were just so unpleasant or annoying to me. I also am not quite able to look past that or work through it (although I tried a bit actually). All in all I didn’t really feel good about the game or got strong read impressions when I tried to solve the game for real (me not feeling good about the game may have impacted this, or the game just feels a bit hard to me now).

Your reasoning is bad.
Nothing of what you mention is in any way scummy for me.
Why are you basing your read on me on what looks like meta you have constructed yourself? If you’re honest, do you know me well enough to make this call?

If the criticism I receive is that I lack direction or whatever, then I understand that. But I don’t understand how that’s scummy for me. Cause it’s just not. So anyone voting me should spend time explaining exactly why I’m a good vote and I’m scummy. Currently the people voting me don’t know me at all. Except Nanook, but he doesn’t vote me because of a read.

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:57 am
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:32 am Did anyone come up with anything great?
Mizery probably wolfing, don't really understand your votes.

What about my votes? I don’t really feel like I have much. Also am not at all caught up and might not get there today anyway

I just learned Mizery is Illwei. Which makes their posts more scummy. However, I did see one towny post too, about how her village range got scummier and scummier. Illwei has been an easy town read for me in games I’ve specced and one I’ve played. But here she’s not. However, not discounting the new environment factor. Overall don feel better about this slot after learning they are Illwei.

Wisp wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:10 am [VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine
remember when I said alison might be town?
im scratching that for now
but im voting dizzy because meta, and I am also sheeping Seth's case

The fuck is this lol

You don’t know me.

I have nothing to say to Seth.

I see I’m a popular option for president. So that’s cool.

Did anyone come up with anything great?

Gira wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:13 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:58 pm I don't feel like I have that person to bounce off of. @Gira Can you be that person? I don't know what I think about most things.

Also @EnderWiggin
hell, sure

i agree with your two big townreads so far, and i've been feeling good about you over these last few pages

this game is my re-acclimation to mafia, had to take a break because i was mentally fried (which i think was evident in SCI), but i don't have much stability still, i work better when i can act as a foil to someone

i only have about an hour before i have to dip for a while, but let's talk. give me some structure, give me something to work with

Since when did you town read Falcon btw?

I was considering Lucky/Alison as a possible team, maybe a bit tinfoily, but I felt their interaction was a bit typical teammate-ish. How Lucky asked me why I was clearing Alison and got really hung up on that, and then Alison going at Lucky and then changing her mind for what I think are kind of loose reasoning. But then I don't know if I really scum read either player individually. Probably not tbh.

I have very little structure in this game lol.

I'm also going soon. Hope I can get my head more into this game tomorrow.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:11 pm @Dyslexicon I want your insight into my spat with Luckybox. Am I off base?

Honestly I had a hard time focusing on that.
I think your gripe was that Lucky is non-committal a lot of the time and doesn't push suspects?

I'm just in a state of I don't know myself now, so I don't really have much interesting to add.
I think I'll have to return to this game in a better state to actually do something constructive here.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:06 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:02 pm Like, I don't think it's great for town to have a lot of antagonistic behavior plus a lot of detached players. I don't do well in those kinds of environment. So I'm tired of it.
I'm just trying to have some fun in an otherwise annoyingly aggro game

Yes, but that fun of yours is making the game more annoying for me. =p

I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on Wisp, among other things. If you have any.

Like, I don't think it's great for town to have a lot of antagonistic behavior plus a lot of detached players. I don't do well in those kinds of environment. So I'm tired of it.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:00 pmWhy so serious my friend?

More impatient.

I would need Hally to be in this game.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:57 pm Kinda sketchy angleshootey read. Confidence level low but something I thought of.

In Smilies Mafia DVC, Gavial was complaining about how if everyone just sheeped him every time, town would always win because his reads were so great. Nanook was there and objected to it on the basis that his reads were inconsistent in quality and often contained wild leaps of logic.

I could see nanook deciding it would be funny to give Gavial what he wanted and hard sheep him, reasoning that either Gavial is wrong and has to shut up about asking to be sheeped or Gavial is right and he gets a free win.

Well, I'm Gavial's chosen scum read of the game, so he's wrong.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:58 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:56 pm [VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

Because he doesn't have any investment in helping town which is sad.
Sheeping gav's incredible reads IS helping town. If we just follow his reads we'd win like every game, haven't you heard? Just ask him, he'll tell you.

funnycool

I don't feel like I have that person to bounce off of. @Gira Can you be that person? I don't know what I think about most things.

Also @EnderWiggin

[VOTE: Nanook] aubergine

Because he doesn't have any investment in helping town which is sad.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:50 pmThat is for real im farming all my reads out to seth this game, hes my reads master

Wow you're so funny and cool and unique.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:48 pm 1) What reasons are there to townread Wisp beyond the AtE?

2) Even if you believe that Wisp could believably react this way as town, what makes you think they're doing it genuinely rather than faking a reaction they know they'd have as town? Shouldn't the AtE be NAI at best?

1) I think it's AtE that got me in the first place tbh. He already did seem meh about the game and also like he didn't understand or cared for how people played with quick meta reads and town reads he didn't agree with or understood. Yeah, I realise you could frame this as him being scum. Overall, I think he didn't really try to cater to anyone. And how he talked about often being hated for play style kind of got me. This probably seems very weak to you, but it's how I felt when reading through. It wasn't even a strong impulse tbh.

2) Sure.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:45 pmI believe that Wisp is demoralized and has lost interest in the game. I don't think that equates to giving up or abandoning their team. I think it's perfectly plausible that they don't really want to defend themselves against a push today so they go for the laziest way of getting out of pressure, which is to just AtE a bunch and hope people townread you for it.

That makes more sense, though I'm not convinced that is what's happening.

But again, I don't have any other strong or better ideas at the moment so cheers.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:43 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:42 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:41 pm But yes you're right I should say you get mis pushed a lot
What would be your judgement on his alignment right now?
Idk whatever gav says is what id say

No, for real, please.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:42 pm LIke let's look at what is going on with this supposed Wisp breakdown.

Wisp is saying that they don't feel interested in playing the game any more because...

because what?

Because I'm aggro and tunnely? They didn't seem to have a problem playing when I was tunnelling Gira and Luckbox. It's only a problem when it's on them?

Because there's a lot of meta reads flying around?

Which ones? I've outed exactly one new meta read, which is the read on Luck. Are we to believe that a town Wisp can't handle one person meta townreading another person?

Then there's the whole "oh, woe is me, nobody has meta on me so I will die in ignominy" crap. They have 2 votes on them and it's halfway through the day. Dizzy has said that he thinks Wisp is town. A townie has no reason to be this dejected and accepting of defeat here.

I think it's a bullshit narrative intended to sell the idea of Wisp being town who has deflated and knows they're innocent but feels helpless to defend themselves from it. Problem is, Wisp has no reason to feel that way as town, so the story doesn't hold water to me.

Maybe it is.
However, Wisp expressed unhappiness with the game before this as well, afair.

I don't like the fact that someone who doesn't play often on this site has an experience where they would rather just give up on the game regardless of what alignment they are.

This in turn affects me, as I also feel worse about the game as a whole.
Which is not constructive to town's success.

I mean, I'll deal and I'll be practical about it.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:41 pm But yes you're right I should say you get mis pushed a lot

What would be your judgement on his alignment right now?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:39 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:37 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:36 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:35 pm Yeah, I don't think Wisp is scum with their reaction, so sue me.

Also sad that they lose interest in the game. =/
AtE is scummy.

"Fuck y'all I feel bad, and now I will not solve for the rest of the day phase" is scummy.
I don't know if it is. I don't know if you just leave your whole known team behind because someone is tunnelling you. You know I certainly don't.
What do you mean leave your whole known team behind?

If you're mafia, you know your whole team. You already have a relation to them. So it feels worse for most people to give up, because other people are depending on you to do the job. (This is of course also true if you're town, that other people depend on you, but you don't know who it is, and usually the same feelings doesn't accompany "giving up" as town, because you can easily place the blame elsewhere.)

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:37 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:35 pm Yeah, I don't think Wisp is scum with their reaction, so sue me.

Also sad that they lose interest in the game. =/
Who is scum if Wisp isn't?

I actually have no idea.

Is Wilgy still town to you?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:36 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:35 pm Yeah, I don't think Wisp is scum with their reaction, so sue me.

Also sad that they lose interest in the game. =/
AtE is scummy.

"Fuck y'all I feel bad, and now I will not solve for the rest of the day phase" is scummy.

I don't know if it is. I don't know if you just leave your whole known team behind because someone is tunnelling you. You know I certainly don't.

Yeah, I don't think Wisp is scum with their reaction, so sue me.

Also sad that they lose interest in the game. =/

Alright, I guess those answers are good enough for me to not vote Alison.
The thing she has going for her is finding it important to identify and defend Falcon and Gavial.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:28 pmWhy are you nervous?

Because I'm not in the mood for you to start screaming at me because I'm questioning you, but I also need to question you.

Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:29 pm Meh Alison still makes me not want to play the game, idk how to handle all these meta reads. Feels like I should just accept that nobody knows me and die and flip town.

People do know you though.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME What can you tell me about the Wisp/Chad?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:21 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:53 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:11 am I'm sheeping Ender on nanook. Gira is probably town and just throwing a tantrum.

If we assume Luckbox's meta makes him town (which I'm okay to right now, especially for the purposes of building this world) then the non-clears are Carousel, MIzery, tess, Wisp.

Not sure where Dizzy stands in this situation. I'll take a look after class.
What about Lucky's meta makes him town to you?
Ender and Lucky both claim that Lucky is a chronic busser and finds it awkward and difficult to push townies. Lucky is also quite proud of his ability to get there on me when I am town and knows that there will be an expectation that he will defend me if he is town.

Both of these characteristics make it unlikely for scum Lucky to pick a fight with me early when I am going full aggro mode.

Mmk.

What if I considered if you two were teamed mafia?
Would I be crazy?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:19 pmI meant everyone I scum read in the thread disagreed with me/townread in the thread agreed with me.

Yeah, but this isn't really true? You said yourself that Wisp, who you scum read, actually did agree or at least not object to your other reads.
And for me, I don't even have solid reads now, except Falcon and Gavial.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:18 pmI don't need people to "deal with" my pushes as town. I push someone because I want to figure out their alignment or because I want to get them killed. I am well aware that I can be a freight train when I push people and that is intended. It helps with rattling them and making them give me AI reactions for the former purpose, or getting them killed with the latter.

I've already gotten two reads that I wouldn't otherwise have gotten to through conflict.

What reads are these and how exactly did you get them?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:51 pmNo the atrocious thing was that I pressed him hard about the logic behind his thought process and he deflected. It is still atrocious and the only reason I am not pushing him is because I don't think he would act this way because of his meta.

What meta are you referring to here?

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:50 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:20 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:54 am
Wisp wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:30 am @Alison
why do u think I have TMI on Gira's slot?
I don't. I'm playing around the possibility.
Uh. You don't? But you think Wisp is scum with a high degree of certainty?
I think Wisp is likely scum in either world. It was unclear to me at the time whether they were TMI-ing Gira, or protecting a buddy.

They would have TMI in either case, but I gets that's just technical.

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