The Syndicate

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:56 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:54 pm What are the rolls for tonight btw?

At least 50 if 6 giant pandas left
At least 45 if 5 giant pandas left

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:47 pm DDL
Creature

Urist (Leaving this up to Nanook though)

Guillo (Main thing that is scummy about Guillo is how some of his posts feels so incredibly constructed. Don't know if I can find the right word for it, but it seems like rhetoric more than natural thoughts. Maybe it's just how he writes though. He did derp a whole lot in the beginning. Not sure here tbh.)
Daisy (I know Nanook says something else. I don't get her confidence on me at all. I don't know.)

Wilgy (Nothing towny. But maybe not teamed with Falcon?)
HK (Probably tried to buddy me idk.)
Falcon (Questions that goes nowhere. No town indicators from what I've seen. No drive.)

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:45 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:36 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:34 pm Ironically daisy is my only lock town atp

Can you please tell me why? I don't have a clear grasp of her play style.

Also, embarrassing, but earlier on I mixed up her and Juliets, and thought she was the one I was scum with in a game way back. And thought she was town because she was sassy and Juliets wouldn't be that sassy. But obviously, they aren't the same person lol. Just both OG Cindy Kate divas.

Uh hard to articulate really, sorry...I have a decent history of reading her and she feels the same as other games I've seen her town in. So meta gut read i guess

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:33 pm I don't have the energy or the will to write the exact same wall analysis for Dyslexicon as I had it, but a summary with all the main points will do just fine.

In an attempt to read a player whom most of time I have not been able to read correctly, I've approached the slot in thee ways.

1) Based on Meta

I don't think Dyslexicon is scum here based on meta alone, I've seen his scum game and he takes command of the thread, establishing his dominance over the playlist, pocketing players who are out of his league for a complete hypnosis lol and persuading them into chopping the players he consider threats. I don't see that in this game, granted, I've only played in 5-6 with him and spectated another, in three of those he randed scum, one was in a mash so I can't really count that one because Mashes are just different types of Mafia games.

I was a scum partner with him and Hally and we swept the hell out of the town, he was a powerwolf in that game.

In the other I was town and I had correctly grouped him with Alana and ... someone else from mafia café..it's hard for me to remember stuff but it was a mafia cafe game and I was night killed on night 1. Dyslexicon was a dominant powerwolf in that game as well.

In two of the town games I've seen him play he was a little less dominant, it was like he was laying low so he wouldn't be fear killed in those games but he outed reads moderately, unlike here where he is noticeably underwhelming for the lack of a better word (I don't want to keep insulting people unintentionally).

In the Team Mafia game at Mafia Universe, we randed town, he was in my team. I played a gambit that got us in trouble and when his turn to play came up, he powertowned the shit out of that game, finally getting us out of PoE, Ephemeral had done a solid job but the wolves had made a great job at keeping us in the PoE but that went away when Dizzy took over and that is the kind of play I expect Dizzy to have.

In other words, Dyslexicon is a dominant player, moreso as scum though, so based on meta and just meta, Dizzy is not scum here.

2) Based on behavior here

This is where it gets contradictory because based on behavior in this game, Dizzy could easily be scum. If I forget about meta, if I say you know what, fuck meta, meta is worthless crap, Dyslexicon has claimed that he cannot be meta read in past games and several occasions and every seasoned player can shift their meta, then Dizzy could be scum.

He is not committing to reads, he has outed some reads but they feel like he is leaving a way out? some of his posts look WIFOMy and he is playing the kind of game where he can remain in the middle you know? like not scummy enough to be immediate PoE but not townie enough to not make people wonder why he has not been night killed yet that kind of game that makes you think? Would a wolf draw attention to themselves playing that way?? and you answer no, only to tinfoil right after and say "well that is exactly why it would work", because that is the first think a townie thinks, that wolves care a lot about not drawing attention to themselves!
And I know you are gonna call me a narcissist for it, egomaniac whatever, but there are players like me whom don't give a shit about drawing attention to themselves when randing wolf, some of us are risk takers and that is why we win a lot of games when we rand scum and maybe that is Dizzy's case here even though he keeps telling me that I shouldn't judge others based on how I play, because I'm different (You know what I'm talking about).

Again, if we ignore Dizzy's meta, if I were to think he is playing this way to throw me and (those that know his meta) off, Dizzy has high wolf equity here.

Based on flips

Based on flips Dizzy does not look good at all. He also soft defended Michelle and Marmot highly suspected him, I know how Dizzy operates as scum during the night. He eliminates threats, he does not play the WIFOM game at night, he just kills threats to him or his teammates period and Marmot dying could mean that he had the ball in his hands when it comes to reading Dizzy.

I have not read NAA ISO yet, I'm sure most of you understand my reluctance, I'm not a fan of his playstyle, so I don't know what what his read on Dizzy to cross reference that too but just based on Michelle and Marmot, Dizzy is likely to be scum here.

Side note: Why is this not applicable to fingersplint's death pointing to DDL as possible scum?

Pretty simple. Marmot also had other suspects so it is easier for scum!Dyslexicon to try to hide behind those other people if they are town, while fingersplints had 6 posts? and their only vote is DDL, there is wolf that would kill someone whose only read is you, it's suicide, it draws too much attention to yourself, a wolf gotta kill threats yes but like fingersplint is just too in the face to be true, I hope you know what I mean. I believe more in my doc dodge belief and I could even entertain DDL getting set up by scum there.

Bottom Line

The bottom line is that Dyslexicon is in my PoE. In my analysis two vantage points overrule the first one and if I combined all three in one (Meta, Behavior, Flips), Dizzy is still scummy. Maybe he is town waiting for something, maybe he is scum waiting for something but I will not just wait for the game to be too late to pressure him when based on my analysis, Dyslexicon is scum.

[VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:51 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:39 pm I guess there is a lesson to be learned about finding an "optimal" mathematical solution that disregards the social aspect of the game and ignores that the game is designed with much higher winning odds for the mafia faction, which town can only overcome through social cohesion.

There should also have a mechanism solution that allows town to attempt to save other players besides the Red Panda. Like, the Marmot and NotAnAxehole kills were pretty predictable and someone could've saved them. I guess I might leave this discussion for postgame because I'm not sure how beneficial it is to talk about it right now.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:35 pmI'm pretty sure "I only get lethargic as town" isn't actually true lol

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:34 pm Ironically daisy is my only lock town atp

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:28 pm This game feels like freelo for wolves because of the level of apathy. All I can do is try to figure out who is wolf taking advantage of it and who is town underplaying.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:30 pmI think posturing in the sense of raising post count without really contributing anything to the game. It made you look like you were doing something when you weren't.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:19 am guillo if you and creature can stop fighting we can form a towncore plz and thank you

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:04 am I'm still at hollowkatt + Dyslexicon + Spacedaisy. I think roughly in that order.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:18 pmIts not locked in, probably gonna shoot in like

Idk 50 minutes or so

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:41 pm Those Dizzy votes look really shady to me. Again, so not a shock. Dizzy is like the only person I fully trust right now. Those votes make zero sense.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:10 pm Yeah ok, so I'm taking DDL and Creature out of the PoE. That's a start.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:17 pm I don't have a POE but I do have a do not shoot list:
dizzy
DDL
NAA
Falcon
Marmot

These people make me feel good about the solving they're trying to do and how they're going about it.

Guillo I think is probably town tbh but his push on me is ego driven more than it is anything else, that's bad guillo stop doing it.

Creature sheeped it, that was wonky, I'd shoot him.
Sig, Wigly, Urist, Spacedaisy I guess would be my POE by virtue of not town reading them.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:02 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:59 pm I have decided this: Creature is town. I did not expect to decide this.

Was it before or after nanook announced hes not killing Creature

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:12 pm Alright, I've cooled my head down so I have a disclaimer to make.

Since NAA and Urist have stated they do not intend to scumhunt or interact with people in a way related to scumhunting or solving alignments, and since, as they have pointed out, I cannot vote or kill them myself, I have decided I will not interact with them whatsoever for the rest of the game.

This forum doesn't have an user blocking function afaik, but I'll be acting like it did. As far as i'm concerned, NAA and Urist don't exist. They have decided they won't give their time to the game, so I'm not giving them my time either. I hope Nanook sorts their alignment out orthe mafia kills them (if they are town), and if those things don't happen, there's nothing I can about that.

I also announce I will disregard Urist's table when deciding my night actions, because he does not deserve the satisfaction of telling me what to do after announcing his intent of being antisocial with me. I don't care if this ends up being suboptimal: I'd rather lose this game than play it in a way that invalidates the main reason I play Mafia in the first place, which is socializing with other people. Some things are more important than winning or losing.

This policy currently applies to this game alone, and no other places.

Thank you players, and mods, for your patience. I will now resume reading the game's posts and trying to solve the alignments of the people who came here to play mafia.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:09 pm Marmot is probably my most confident townread.

NAA is next.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:55 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:32 pm

sig wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:17 pmBUT, the dizzy thing is more iffy since if they have TMI this would be the perfect time to throw in the post dizzy did. Have michelle flip mafia and maybe get some quick civ points.

What town cred would I be getting? I still don't agree with shooting someone who has 4 posts. Seems like a missed opportunity to get more spew, because Michelle can be spew-y. But she was mafia, so that's a little bit nit-picky I guess.

Who would you have shot instead?

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:33 pm I don't have the energy or the will to write the exact same wall analysis for Dyslexicon as I had it, but a summary with all the main points will do just fine.

In an attempt to read a player whom most of time I have not been able to read correctly, I've approached the slot in thee ways.

1) Based on Meta

I don't think Dyslexicon is scum here based on meta alone, I've seen his scum game and he takes command of the thread, establishing his dominance over the playlist, pocketing players who are out of his league for a complete hypnosis lol and persuading them into chopping the players he consider threats. I don't see that in this game, granted, I've only played in 5-6 with him and spectated another, in three of those he randed scum, one was in a mash so I can't really count that one because Mashes are just different types of Mafia games.

I was a scum partner with him and Hally and we swept the hell out of the town, he was a powerwolf in that game.

In the other I was town and I had correctly grouped him with Alana and ... someone else from mafia café..it's hard for me to remember stuff but it was a mafia cafe game and I was night killed on night 1. Dyslexicon was a dominant powerwolf in that game as well.

In two of the town games I've seen him play he was a little less dominant, it was like he was laying low so he wouldn't be fear killed in those games but he outed reads moderately, unlike here where he is noticeably underwhelming for the lack of a better word (I don't want to keep insulting people unintentionally).

In the Team Mafia game at Mafia Universe, we randed town, he was in my team. I played a gambit that got us in trouble and when his turn to play came up, he powertowned the shit out of that game, finally getting us out of PoE, Ephemeral had done a solid job but the wolves had made a great job at keeping us in the PoE but that went away when Dizzy took over and that is the kind of play I expect Dizzy to have.

In other words, Dyslexicon is a dominant player, moreso as scum though, so based on meta and just meta, Dizzy is not scum here.

2) Based on behavior here

This is where it gets contradictory because based on behavior in this game, Dizzy could easily be scum. If I forget about meta, if I say you know what, fuck meta, meta is worthless crap, Dyslexicon has claimed that he cannot be meta read in past games and several occasions and every seasoned player can shift their meta, then Dizzy could be scum.

He is not committing to reads, he has outed some reads but they feel like he is leaving a way out? some of his posts look WIFOMy and he is playing the kind of game where he can remain in the middle you know? like not scummy enough to be immediate PoE but not townie enough to not make people wonder why he has not been night killed yet that kind of game that makes you think? Would a wolf draw attention to themselves playing that way?? and you answer no, only to tinfoil right after and say "well that is exactly why it would work", because that is the first think a townie thinks, that wolves care a lot about not drawing attention to themselves!
And I know you are gonna call me a narcissist for it, egomaniac whatever, but there are players like me whom don't give a shit about drawing attention to themselves when randing wolf, some of us are risk takers and that is why we win a lot of games when we rand scum and maybe that is Dizzy's case here even though he keeps telling me that I shouldn't judge others based on how I play, because I'm different (You know what I'm talking about).

Again, if we ignore Dizzy's meta, if I were to think he is playing this way to throw me and (those that know his meta) off, Dizzy has high wolf equity here.

Based on flips

Based on flips Dizzy does not look good at all. He also soft defended Michelle and Marmot highly suspected him, I know how Dizzy operates as scum during the night. He eliminates threats, he does not play the WIFOM game at night, he just kills threats to him or his teammates period and Marmot dying could mean that he had the ball in his hands when it comes to reading Dizzy.

I have not read NAA ISO yet, I'm sure most of you understand my reluctance, I'm not a fan of his playstyle, so I don't know what what his read on Dizzy to cross reference that too but just based on Michelle and Marmot, Dizzy is likely to be scum here.

Side note: Why is this not applicable to fingersplint's death pointing to DDL as possible scum?

Pretty simple. Marmot also had other suspects so it is easier for scum!Dyslexicon to try to hide behind those other people if they are town, while fingersplints had 6 posts? and their only vote is DDL, there is wolf that would kill someone whose only read is you, it's suicide, it draws too much attention to yourself, a wolf gotta kill threats yes but like fingersplint is just too in the face to be true, I hope you know what I mean. I believe more in my doc dodge belief and I could even entertain DDL getting set up by scum there.

Bottom Line

The bottom line is that Dyslexicon is in my PoE. In my analysis two vantage points overrule the first one and if I combined all three in one (Meta, Behavior, Flips), Dizzy is still scummy. Maybe he is town waiting for something, maybe he is scum waiting for something but I will not just wait for the game to be too late to pressure him when based on my analysis, Dyslexicon is scum.

[VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:46 pm But yeah I'm likely shooting dizzy today since they never showed back up

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:33 pm I don't have the energy or the will to write the exact same wall analysis for Dyslexicon as I had it, but a summary with all the main points will do just fine.

In an attempt to read a player whom most of time I have not been able to read correctly, I've approached the slot in thee ways.

1) Based on Meta

I don't think Dyslexicon is scum here based on meta alone, I've seen his scum game and he takes command of the thread, establishing his dominance over the playlist, pocketing players who are out of his league for a complete hypnosis lol and persuading them into chopping the players he consider threats. I don't see that in this game, granted, I've only played in 5-6 with him and spectated another, in three of those he randed scum, one was in a mash so I can't really count that one because Mashes are just different types of Mafia games.

I was a scum partner with him and Hally and we swept the hell out of the town, he was a powerwolf in that game.

In the other I was town and I had correctly grouped him with Alana and ... someone else from mafia café..it's hard for me to remember stuff but it was a mafia cafe game and I was night killed on night 1. Dyslexicon was a dominant powerwolf in that game as well.

In two of the town games I've seen him play he was a little less dominant, it was like he was laying low so he wouldn't be fear killed in those games but he outed reads moderately, unlike here where he is noticeably underwhelming for the lack of a better word (I don't want to keep insulting people unintentionally).

In the Team Mafia game at Mafia Universe, we randed town, he was in my team. I played a gambit that got us in trouble and when his turn to play came up, he powertowned the shit out of that game, finally getting us out of PoE, Ephemeral had done a solid job but the wolves had made a great job at keeping us in the PoE but that went away when Dizzy took over and that is the kind of play I expect Dizzy to have.

In other words, Dyslexicon is a dominant player, moreso as scum though, so based on meta and just meta, Dizzy is not scum here.

2) Based on behavior here

This is where it gets contradictory because based on behavior in this game, Dizzy could easily be scum. If I forget about meta, if I say you know what, fuck meta, meta is worthless crap, Dyslexicon has claimed that he cannot be meta read in past games and several occasions and every seasoned player can shift their meta, then Dizzy could be scum.

He is not committing to reads, he has outed some reads but they feel like he is leaving a way out? some of his posts look WIFOMy and he is playing the kind of game where he can remain in the middle you know? like not scummy enough to be immediate PoE but not townie enough to not make people wonder why he has not been night killed yet that kind of game that makes you think? Would a wolf draw attention to themselves playing that way?? and you answer no, only to tinfoil right after and say "well that is exactly why it would work", because that is the first think a townie thinks, that wolves care a lot about not drawing attention to themselves!
And I know you are gonna call me a narcissist for it, egomaniac whatever, but there are players like me whom don't give a shit about drawing attention to themselves when randing wolf, some of us are risk takers and that is why we win a lot of games when we rand scum and maybe that is Dizzy's case here even though he keeps telling me that I shouldn't judge others based on how I play, because I'm different (You know what I'm talking about).

Again, if we ignore Dizzy's meta, if I were to think he is playing this way to throw me and (those that know his meta) off, Dizzy has high wolf equity here.

Based on flips

Based on flips Dizzy does not look good at all. He also soft defended Michelle and Marmot highly suspected him, I know how Dizzy operates as scum during the night. He eliminates threats, he does not play the WIFOM game at night, he just kills threats to him or his teammates period and Marmot dying could mean that he had the ball in his hands when it comes to reading Dizzy.

I have not read NAA ISO yet, I'm sure most of you understand my reluctance, I'm not a fan of his playstyle, so I don't know what what his read on Dizzy to cross reference that too but just based on Michelle and Marmot, Dizzy is likely to be scum here.

Side note: Why is this not applicable to fingersplint's death pointing to DDL as possible scum?

Pretty simple. Marmot also had other suspects so it is easier for scum!Dyslexicon to try to hide behind those other people if they are town, while fingersplints had 6 posts? and their only vote is DDL, there is wolf that would kill someone whose only read is you, it's suicide, it draws too much attention to yourself, a wolf gotta kill threats yes but like fingersplint is just too in the face to be true, I hope you know what I mean. I believe more in my doc dodge belief and I could even entertain DDL getting set up by scum there.

Bottom Line

The bottom line is that Dyslexicon is in my PoE. In my analysis two vantage points overrule the first one and if I combined all three in one (Meta, Behavior, Flips), Dizzy is still scummy. Maybe he is town waiting for something, maybe he is scum waiting for something but I will not just wait for the game to be too late to pressure him when based on my analysis, Dyslexicon is scum.

[VOTE: Dyslexicon] aubergine

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 8:08 pmDyslexicon was pretty quick to sheep my bad read on sig.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:34 pmDyslexicon I started to suspect because it feels like they were just raising their postcount and posturing to look like town.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:19 pm Ok, I just did a complete read through again to get my feet under me.

I feel confident that the following are town
NAA
Guillo
Dizzy

I feel somewhat confident in these as town
Urist
Marmot

I have no read on wilgy

I believe the wolves are among these:
Creature
HK
Falcon
DDL
Sig

I’d probably include Wilgy in a PoE simply out of principle. No real read so I can’t eliminate him from a PoE.

Sorry I can’t get it down to just four yet Nook, but that is where I’m at right now.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:30 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:28 pm Wait wait wait.

Marmot also assumed that I was mafia last game.
I don't think I corrected him, maybe I did.

But did you all talk about this in mafia chat, thinking how I was mafia last game? Cause I wasn't.

NAA/Marmot tinfoil has begun.

For real for real.

Honestly, I picked up on what Marmot said because I didn't see you correct it. I haven't read the other game and all of my knowledge about the other game is from stuff that was said in thread.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:29 pmYeah, I can only speak for myself: If you don't have a read on me there's only one reason - you don't know how to. It's got nothing to do with how the game is being played / progressing.

I think where you have a point is there are few associatives, but I think that's a healthy exercise even of itself for improving individual reads.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:27 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:04 pm This setup seems so weird now. I feel like last time, it was super easy to get reads and discussions going. Maybe because Nut had the gun and jumped on everyone and everywhere.

Now I'm just like waiting for whatever Nook is going to do and in a general meh mood.

If we need it later, maybe infuse this with a whoever gets the most votes gets shot or something, to make something more happen. Or at least pretend. Dunno

I'm not stopping you from playing normally lol

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:24 pmAlso, the reason it's different is that there are probably fewer players that you're comfortable reading - and - weren't you mafia?

If so I think this post makes little sense / I think you're also mafia here - but you know that based on my shot list

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:14 pm I'm going to break silence - I was lurking to maintain 69 posts - because I feel like it's required.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:04 pm This setup seems so weird now. I feel like last time, it was super easy to get reads and discussions going. Maybe because Nut had the gun and jumped on everyone and everywhere.

Now I'm just like waiting for whatever Nook is going to do and in a general meh mood.

If we need it later, maybe infuse this with a whoever gets the most votes gets shot or something, to make something more happen. Or at least pretend. Dunno

Last time town lost.

I don't understand the vitriol that's been directed my way, I think Nanook should take a shot to end the day, everyone take 24hrs to rest and think things over.

DDL, I've interacted with everything that a) wasn't playing against my own win condition b) wasn't a direct attempt of someone reading my alignment.

I will continue to not interact on those points, and I cannot play against my own win condition by explaining certain mech éléments, even if people get upset over it. I don't prevent you from interacting with other players, and I don't actively try to prevent people from making plays with their night actions (even though I think it's suboptimal). So, I don't understand why I can't play my game and you play yours without the threat of not following an objectively good night plan that has no relevance to daytime discussion.

That's all I'll say on the matter.


My reads are largely unchanged - I could play with the order, but it's still the same 5 for me.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:09 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:04 pm This setup seems so weird now. I feel like last time, it was super easy to get reads and discussions going. Maybe because Nut had the gun and jumped on everyone and everywhere.

Now I'm just like waiting for whatever Nook is going to do and in a general meh mood.

If we need it later, maybe infuse this with a whoever gets the most votes gets shot or something, to make something more happen. Or at least pretend. Dunno

Looking at it now, I pity nutella. Being conftown and in complete control of the lynch probably sucks.