The Syndicate

@lucy You should read my case on you. It's really good. =p You played well though.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:19 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:17 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:14 pm I tried to make this a fun kinda silly game, hopefully you guys enjoyed it and it wasn't too frustrating for anyone!

Cool setup. Lots of action and the right amount of silly imo.
What did my and Rico's N1 action do?

I found out I should continue my mafia break =p
But that was not because of the game or the players. That was all A+ tbh tbh

You made tsp's action strong for the night

He didn't act tho

TSP getting a cop role that we boost and taking no action is the fantasy I'm here for =p

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:14 pm I tried to make this a fun kinda silly game, hopefully you guys enjoyed it and it wasn't too frustrating for anyone!

Cool setup. Lots of action and the right amount of silly imo.
What did my and Rico's N1 action do?

I found out I should continue my mafia break =p
But that was not because of the game or the players. That was all A+ tbh tbh

Good work, town. We got it together in the end lol

Well played, mafia team.

Thank you for the game, Nook and mods. <3

Gg I was Dizzy lol

Violet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:35 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:53 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:50 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:47 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:45 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:40 pm fine I'm being unnecessarily contrarian and you did drop Ruri's role
I'll drop my tinfoil

I do not understand nor did I expect this reaction.

All I'm saying is that if you are in fact town, and if that should have any weight on me, you need to actually show it and put in the work. Cause I really could not give two shits about losing the game to a weird w!Daisy world if you're not willing to do any leg work or communicate.

how clear is violet/daisy to u, give respective percentages and I'll case accordingly

I mean. Honestly. Violet about 99 % clear and Daisy about 89 % clear. So it's tough if you're town here.

ignore everything that came before, u all joined in on voting me/rico and I got no credit for voting rico bc I was asleep, a super logical conclusion I'm mafia because of that eod lol, super annoyed at that and idk what happened since I still haven't read it

Just in case <3

Oh. So that is how your action works. I get it lol

Well then. Looks like Lucy has given up anyway. So let's hope this is right. Ready to be surprised

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:59 pm I think Rico is a terrible Day 1 elim, frankly. He's a strong player and if he is town, he's worth having around.

Started to read in Daisy's ISO and found this from pretty early D1. And I don't think she says this about a teammate so early into the game. It's very risky and would come back to bite her, and I don't think she's the type of player who sticks her neck out that far and plays high risk.

There's also other reasons to town read Daisy that I have, and her claim her and her plan with it seems believable to me.

So if I'm right about Violet too and that Rico TMI-ed Violet, it's just Lucy.

I should probably have more confidence in myself. I did catch Rico on D2 actually, and for good reasons that nobody cared about. I don't think many will care about my reasons for Lucy either, but I bet many of them are pretty good actually. So that's a distance to fall if I'm completely wrong here =p

I'm feeling decently ok about this. Especially since Lucy hasn't showed up to do any hunting. I still stand behind my cases on Violet being town and Lucy being mafia. Could've looked more closely into Daisy still. If I feel inspired, I might later. But it probably doesn't change anything anyway

Violet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:03 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:55 pm Whatever, I'll just claim since we can't get to N4

I'm a limited parity cop essentially. I don't get my result until N4, so it's not useful until D5. I have a check out on whether lucy and rico are the same or different alignments. That's why sleep was my choice. But now Violet's claim about their role makes it pointless. I don't fucking know who the last wolf is for certain, but I would have tomorrow, which is why I am so annoyed right now.

That's really unfortunate :/

Still, I think the risk would have been too high if I had not brought it up as we could lose if a) I don't loverize the last wolf and b) me or the the target dies (2/3 odds).

Yeah, I think so.

I mean, you could've claimed that your role was optional. However, that would just be a huge risk and I understand why you didn't.

Now I'm thinking maybe one of you are actually 3p with a hostile wincon, and we randomly lose even if Lucy is mafia. Buuut, literally nothing to do about that.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 3:37 amDesign note:
All roles were written pre rand. The mafia team was randed, then roles were randed. There is one and exactly one role in this game that could only be town aligned, the rest of the roleset is not ai.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:49 pm@MartinGG99 has died. They flip town. Their role was discarded:

Ragequit

Once per game, at night (no earlier than n2), you may rage quit the game. You'll be announced as having left the game (you will not flip) and you won't be allowed to vote or to post in thread and/or any hoods you may be in. After two cycles you will return to the game as a mod confirmed innocent child, but you will only return to the game for one cycle--at the end of the cycle you will die and flip. Is this a fun role? Fuck no its an angry role, embrace the aggro!

You are town

I'm guessing Martin's role is the one role that has to be town.

I was asking myself what mafia would do with a parity cop. But then, TSP also flipped 1-shot cop, which also wouldn't be useful for mafia, so.

Daisy's claim seems pretty believable to me

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:55 pm Whatever, I'll just claim since we can't get to N4

I'm a limited parity cop essentially. I don't get my result until N4, so it's not useful until D5. I have a check out on whether lucy and rico are the same or different alignments. That's why sleep was my choice. But now Violet's claim about their role makes it pointless. I don't fucking know who the last wolf is for certain, but I would have tomorrow, which is why I am so annoyed right now.

I see. I think I kind of believe this.

But I'm a very gullible person also. Who has your targets been so far?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:46 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:40 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:39 pm This is really fucking annoying. Now I come down to whether or not to believe Violet here regarding their role.

You can also both read what I've said about Violet and why I believe he is town, and also do your own investigation into it.

I've read everything you put and I feel like you apply certain logic inconsistently.

Because I'm too tired right now and too annoyed to think anything of it. What do you want me to say? Most of the people who have read me as town were in fact town themselves. So what is your point? I've expressed at various times worrying about it, but I'm past that at this point.

I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to salvage the usefulness of my role before claiming.

I probably do.

My point is just to see how you react, and if there's anything to glean from the last hours here. Not that I think it matters.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:40 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:16 pm @Spacedaisy What do you make of being town read so much in this game?

I don't make anything of it.

Why?

Is it not surprising? I thought you said start of the game that you usually come across as suspicious to people?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:39 pm This is really fucking annoying. Now I come down to whether or not to believe Violet here regarding their role.

You can also both read what I've said about Violet and why I believe he is town, and also do your own investigation into it.

It probably is just Lucy though. Believeee

@Spacedaisy What do you make of being town read so much in this game?

Violet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:12 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:07 pm

Violet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:39 pm After considering things, I think we should elim today. I used the wording of my ability to avoid being loverized last night, but I won't be able to do it today. This would mean that wolves killing me next night results in town losing. If I miss my shot as loverizer and loverize a town, this would also result in a world where town loses if wolves kill the loverized target. This is a too high risk. Now that this info is up, we should definitely kill today.

Is it possible for you to share how your role can work some nights and not others? Or can't you share that?

It doesn't much matter. Just confused me a bit.

I choose the target during the day, not during the night. Yesterday I targeted Rico, so I did not get paired. If we vote Sleep, I cannot do the same trick.

I see. That makes sense.

Well, I'm positive that you are town, at least. So win or lose together ig.

Have you looked over any interaction with the dead mafia and Daisy, or Daisy's posts?

Anyway. We all need to agree on someone. I'm planning to go through ISOs on everyone shortly. But as it stands now, I'd vote Lucy too. Wouldn't be all too surprised if it is Daisy though, as I thought Lucy's reaction to me was kind of towny tbh

Violet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:39 pm After considering things, I think we should elim today. I used the wording of my ability to avoid being loverized last night, but I won't be able to do it today. This would mean that wolves killing me next night results in town losing. If I miss my shot as loverizer and loverize a town, this would also result in a world where town loses if wolves kill the loverized target. This is a too high risk. Now that this info is up, we should definitely kill today.

Is it possible for you to share how your role can work some nights and not others? Or can't you share that?

It doesn't much matter. Just confused me a bit.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:20 pm Dizzy, I haven't caught up with everything you said yet. I've got some writing to do, but this is the thing that I am stuck on.

Epi's vote on Dizzy
My vote on Rico
lucy came in and voted Dizzy
You voted Rico

If lucy is Rico's partner, why wouldn't he just vote Dizzy here? It would automatically have clinched them the game if Dizzy was chopped. And he could do it under guise of self pres vote.

It makes no sense that he wouldn't have done it in a world where lucy was his partner. It could have potentially won them the game.

Well, yes. Potentially. However, there would be no guarantee that Epig would’ve stayed on me, and that I would go over in the end. Certainly not without risk. Plus, he did in fact vote me when he got desperate, and pinged you and Epig to change your votes.

There’s more problems though. Because even closer to day end, you, Epig and Rico were all on Lucy. I was between Rico and Violet. Lucy on me. When Violet comes in he argues against the Lucy chop and think Rico is the better idea. He even thinks chopping me/himself is better than Lucy. In a world where Violet is teamed with Rico, this definitely doesn’t make sense imo. I do not at all see why he would need to do that.

I also agreed with Violet that we should go Rico and even me/Violet over Lucy, which was my preference most of the day. So I also vote Rico and ask you to join us there. This is also not something I would have had to do in a world where I’m teamed with Rico, cause you, Epig and Rico were still content on Lucy.

And then we get to you. You did distract away from Rico first, by voting Lucy. You then changed back when I asked you to, closer to EOD. In the end, you could have switched to me last minute, as Lucy didn’t show up and mafia decides tie. So in a world where you are mafia, that would just be a win. However, you were at work at the time, and probably wasn’t able to be around at last minute.

But however you see it, the mafia arguably played suboptimal to somewhat of an absurd degree.

It’s conceivable that Rico and Lucy had planned a bus. Maybe Lucy even asked for it, since she wouldn’t be present. Maybe Rico thought that voting me was too obvious and possibly outing for him and Lucy if they weren’t able to mischop me. It’s not really an easy thing to do, and Epig had proved to be flippant and you didn’t support it.

It’s also conceivable to me that you felt trapped into voting Rico since I asked you, and you couldn’t vote me since you had openly stated that you didn’t want to.

It’s much less conceivable to me that Violet just jumps in to bus their teammate in MYLO when that didn’t have to happen.

Something a bit strange happened, and mafia probably made some sort of a mistake or weird play.

Beyond that, we do have two flipped mafia and a lot of interaction in this thread, so solving should be possible. But then we actually have to do it. And I don’t see a lot of it right now.

I hate this, cause I felt sure. But then there was this creepy gut feeling about Daisy and now I have to entertain it, and I don't like it.

Anyway. Going to bed.

@Spacedaisy If you are the town, please show it and solve and post yourself clear. Thank you.

@Violet Halp

@Spacedaisy I think it's best if you role claim. You are the only one who hasn't at this point.

I also want you to go through EoD3 and what went through your mind at the time.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:55 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:51 pm I mean. If you are really convinced that I am the mafia, it's also me you should case ig

I don't win this world, and I get buried for casing wrong or right person, optimal play is still seeing if violet/daisy r it

Fair ig. I have been at the tipping point of "I don't win w!Daisy world". As I said, it would just be a delayed win for Daisy who could've just picked the win last day. Instead of me wasting hours here lol

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:56 pm also u said rico derpcleared himself, now he derpcleared other townies lol

I said that. But I grew out of it.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:53 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:50 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:47 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:45 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:40 pm fine I'm being unnecessarily contrarian and you did drop Ruri's role
I'll drop my tinfoil

I do not understand nor did I expect this reaction.

All I'm saying is that if you are in fact town, and if that should have any weight on me, you need to actually show it and put in the work. Cause I really could not give two shits about losing the game to a weird w!Daisy world if you're not willing to do any leg work or communicate.

how clear is violet/daisy to u, give respective percentages and I'll case accordingly

I mean. Honestly. Violet about 99 % clear and Daisy about 89 % clear. So it's tough if you're town here.

ignore everything that came before, u all joined in on voting me/rico and I got no credit for voting rico bc I was asleep, a super logical conclusion I'm mafia because of that eod lol, super annoyed at that and idk what happened since I still haven't read it

Ok. Well, if you are town, I encourage you to figure it out. And it's pretty much only you who can figure out that and have that perspective.

I find it super weird that either of Daisy and Violet was hesitating this day. I went into the night after Rico's flip being convinced it had to be either you or Epig. But then I realised that Epig also could've just flipped his vote to me and saved the day for mafia, so it just had to be you.

The Epig kill is also super weird. And what is extremely unfortunate about it is that it may be a kill that Daisy makes. I don't think Violet ever makes it.

I still think it's likely I'll end up voting you. But you know, regardless of your alignment here, that I'm one who can always change my mind.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:50 pm early rackets host which there are only 3 (disputed)

Ok.

Well. I outed the information earlier, because I brain farted and thought that Epig's role would be updated at that time. (It was about 12 pm, and I thought that was the half way point. But 12 am is the half way point). Anyway, I did that because if you as mafia inherited Epig's role and he flipped as your role, you would be 100 % outed to me.

However, Epig flipped as Rico's role which is ??????

I mean. If you are really convinced that I am the mafia, it's also me you should case ig

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:47 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:45 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:40 pm fine I'm being unnecessarily contrarian and you did drop Ruri's role
I'll drop my tinfoil

I do not understand nor did I expect this reaction.

All I'm saying is that if you are in fact town, and if that should have any weight on me, you need to actually show it and put in the work. Cause I really could not give two shits about losing the game to a weird w!Daisy world if you're not willing to do any leg work or communicate.

how clear is violet/daisy to u, give respective percentages and I'll case accordingly

I mean. Honestly. Violet about 99 % clear and Daisy about 89 % clear. So it's tough if you're town here.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:46 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:32 am Before the flip is updated, I have role info.

Lucy’s role is based on early Rackets on TS. It’s offensive and defensive.

Epig’s role is based on culture clash regarding posting volume. It’s also offensive and defensive.

my role sucks, I gave u more posts on n1 for d2, but nook raised post cap from 100 to unlimited, and on n2 for d3 I could steal posts from a player which literally did nothing so I didn't use it because unlimited post cap, I have a n3 ability that idek what it does, I don't have any n4+ abilities

That sounds more like the role Epig should've had. The one that was based on culture clash regarding volume. Was your role based on early Rackets on TS?

To be clear:
The role I inherited from Ruri was a limited role cop. I could target someone and learn what inspired their role and something about the nature of it, but not the actual role.

I targeted you on N2 and Epig on N3. And the results are in the quoted post above.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:43 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:37 pm Violet is not mafia based on Rico TMI-ing him town and how Violet initiated the Rico train on D3. Do you agree?

I think Daisy isn't mafia because she could've literally won D3 if she had just voted me. It's conceivable she didn't think about it that way, that she was nervous or whatever else to make a strategical error. I find it hard to believe though.

if it isn't you, I will try to find you
I'll look at daisy & violet tonight
(not in the headspace to do proper analysis rn, haven't even read ur case on me)
but I know this means nothing, but I am not mafia here, that's not the solve

Ok. Please do that when you're in the headspace and before day is over.

I will ISO Daisy myself at a later point. I need to sleep now.

I'm very confident it is not Violet myself.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:40 pm fine I'm being unnecessarily contrarian and you did drop Ruri's role
I'll drop my tinfoil

I do not understand nor did I expect this reaction.

All I'm saying is that if you are in fact town, and if that should have any weight on me, you need to actually show it and put in the work. Cause I really could not give two shits about losing the game to a weird w!Daisy world if you're not willing to do any leg work or communicate.

@lucy If you are town, the communication is on you. I don't give a shit about your whining of "Dizzy should know better" because YOU should know better. Do the solve. It is very possible to find my alignment here.

Violet is not mafia based on Rico TMI-ing him town and how Violet initiated the Rico train on D3. Do you agree?

I think Daisy isn't mafia because she could've literally won D3 if she had just voted me. It's conceivable she didn't think about it that way, that she was nervous or whatever else to make a strategical error. I find it hard to believe though.

I have many clearing factors for me. It is simply not true that "that doesn't matter because it's Dizzy" cause that is not how this shit works. I made a strictly pro town vig shot when I had other choices. I gave up the vig role. I cased Rico on D2. Me and Rico's interactions in general should be enough to understand we aren't teamed. I argued for Rico being killed instead of you on D3 and asked Daisy to vote there. It was literally MYLO and all a me/Rico team would have needed was to just let you go over. How is that hard to comprehend?

And if you do not answer this AND is town, that is completely on you.

Does anyone have any idea how Epig flipped the same role as Rico?

My only guess is that he chose himself to copy the role.

@Violet Is your action compulsory?

Devil's advocate for Daisy.

Because when I went through Dolby's and Rico's posts, I noticed that nothing was clearing for Daisy. And in fact, it didn't look very good.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:57 pm I'd ask everyone townreading Daisy on why they're townreading Daisy.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:00 pm Halfway D1 list

Town lean
Martin - effort and read depth vibe best of all right now; slightly not sure what to read into his hesitancy to judge some players based on previous games/previous errors of judgement; blank vote on a low-player out of a generous basket thus far, but claims he is looking into something, fine

Daisy - effort and read depth vibe second best of all right now

Dizzy - not quite on best behaviour early on (banter opening statements, including being maf, blank Moon vote), but can get (or simply wouldn't overthink it atm) behind the rallying sentiment for activity and the scrutiny shown in others' reads

[cut]

This is one example. Rico asks why people are town reading Daisy, but quickly after puts her in the town reads.

I don't think Daisy ever commented on my Rico case on D2. She also moved the train from Rico to Lucy at a point on D3.

HOWEVER, she did in fact end up voting Rico on D3 when I asked her to. She wavered quite a bit. But she could in fact have just voted me instead and used the rule where mafia decides tie to have both me and Violet chopped.

So in the case that Daisy is mafia, she made an extremely weird and unstrategical play on D3. It's not impossible that it happened. But in that case I would more see it as a delayed win we assume Daisy as town because of it. Because a Rico/Daisy team could've just won there and then. Daisy was busy at the moment and seemed quite stressed, so it's thinkable that she just didn't think clearly and went with the bussing strategy, since she had already said she thought I was town, she was playing the role of not voting me. Or maybe she was afraid of mechanics or weird actions that would out her, or that me and Violet was lying about the lover thing.

Daisy has felt good to me on several points in this game. Especially the moment she found Epig, is something I really liked.

From Dolby and Rico's play, Daisy is quite compatible action. From Daisy's play and especially her voting of Rico, I'd say no.

Especially since I think there's many compelling arguments for Lucy mafia.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:10 pm because I'm town this is outing for dizzy

If you are in fact town, then the last mafia is actually Daisy. I was about to do a devil's advocate. If you are town, you should HELP.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:36 pm @Ricochet flips MAFIA:

**Actually The MS Wiki Defines Jailkeeper As…**

There are people from a few different places and eras here. That's pretty cool. It also means role names can be confusing, and sometimes two people have wildly different ideas of what roles with the same name do. You know the best way to avoid that? Clearly worded role PMs (good luck), and clearly worded claims! Every night you may submit a post made at any point in the game that contains a claim. If the claim is accurate (or reasonably close to accurate) you will receive a rolecop result for that player (rolecop results do not return factional abilities, if any).

You are mafia

Night actions due in about 22 hours.

Spoiler: show

@ Dyslexicon
@ Epignosis
@ lucy
@ Spacedaisy
@ Violet

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:33 pm Flavor? In this economy?

@Epignosis flips TOWN. Flip will be updated with role in about 23.5 hours.

Updated flip (role was NOT inherited):

**Actually The MS Wiki Defines Jailkeeper As…**

There are people from a few different places and eras here. That's pretty cool. It also means role names can be confusing, and sometimes two people have wildly different ideas of what roles with the same name do. You know the best way to avoid that? Clearly worded role PMs (good luck), and clearly worded claims! Every night you may submit a post made at any point in the game that contains a claim. If the claim is accurate (or reasonably close to accurate) you will receive a rolecop result for that player (rolecop results do not return factional abilities, if any).

Deadline will not be adjusted for the late start, apologies for any inconvenience.

Day ends November 23, 6pm eastern

Spoiler: show

@ Dyslexicon
@ lucy
@ Spacedaisy
@ Violet

Ok but wtf

Why Lucy is mafia

Edit: I know this is a lot. And some of the points are kind of detailed. Sometimes when I take as alignment indicative doesn't make sense to others. I'm leaning on my experience, and the points here are quite clear to me. If it's not clear to you, please ask for clarification. I don't know how well I'm able to explain myself.


Lucy

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:28 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:25 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:24 pm

Moonwink wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:23 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:22 pm hey moon, do you post reads lists, if so do you mind posting one?

I'm not good at posting reads lists, but I'll give it a shot!

Actually, wait, I don't want to do that yet. Maybe in 24 hours or so.

Dizzy still top town though. <3

Followed by, like, you and maybe Ricochet, maybe.

I also tr you, Martin dying over boq/dizzy/me feels weird

also I assume that the ruri kill was done by town, serial killer has no incentive to kill an inactive, mafia killed Martin because he was widely and strongly TR, the question is why the kill wasn't in me/boq/dizzy

More of an aside, but here Lucy is saying the Ruri kill would be done by town, almost like she is perfectly able to understand the exact implications of that kill in spite of having tried to argue against it later when she had to pretend to mafia read me.

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:45 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 3:49 pm @lucy You should probably catch mafia today, or tell me if I already did. Or else I'm probably going to tunnel you before you can tunnel me.

on d1 i could tell there was one in u and chet, but that wasn’t a read to put put into the thread since bad news if i was wrong i’d get less influence late game, so i’m very inclined to follow u on chet since my confidence is fairly strong, although unfortunately it’s not a god read where i’m 100% right

why do u suspect violet

also boq/epi/moon town
idk about anyone else because i’m not looking at playerlist

and i know u have many years of experience with twinks, but as a twink or with them?

This is when Lucy first mentioned the read on there being mafia in one of me/Rico. I agreed, because I thought Rico was mafia, and I followed this read from Lucy up later:

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:35 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:54 pm @lucy More words about why you think there's one in me and Rico would be appreciated. And also your own view of Rico's game and what it says about his alignment rn

any words would be lies or rationalizations for something that's in my gut, I'm looking at your play and comparing it to his
I didn't trust my intuition that poked at the fact in sabi game there was 1 scum in wisdom/boq and sabi/bk, others found one in prince j and princess neon, so I'm trusting the one in 2 players thing here completely, any rationalizations or arguments would be supplementing what my gut says

When I ask her about her read regarding me/Rico, and especially Rico, the response is basically vapor.

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:06 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:02 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:01 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:59 pm Most of the things Boq says, I just find very strange. Don't know if that should tell me something

I caught boq very easily last game we played, 99% chance he's not scum here

Comforting. But are you? CAUSE IF SO I CAUGHT YOU AND DOLBY ON PAGE 1 AND YOU CAN'T CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE

1) if I am mafia with Chet you're forcing me to bus or tunnel me
2) i considered this and you set this up intentionally
3) I don't mind dying d3

but otherwise your methods are pretty obvious, if I was mafia or town I'd have the same reaction (mostly because the trap is obvious), if I was mafia I'd probably tell you to go elsewhere because we both know you aren't as confident as you come off as

This is very interesting and adds to her outing. So, me and Lucy has some interaction mid D2. I ask her if she is mafia (because I'm feeling worse and worse about her), and I'm adding on this that if she is indeed mafia, I want it on record that I caught her and Dolby on Page 1. Referring to this post:
However, Lucy doesn't interpret it like it's meant. Instead she interprets it as me trying to trick her into bussing Rico. This is not an interpretation that comes from town - it is a guilty mindset. There's several instances of guilty mindset in Lucy's posts, especially the ones where she interacts with me. She says that I'm trying to stress her and reaction test her (which I truly have not done specifically). She also says I'm a good player and even says it's good with players like me, because either I get NKed or I catch mafia, and this is shortly after I have cased Rico. I think she is genuine in saying I'm a good player and she's spending energy trying to play around me.

TL;DR: I think Lucy has a crush on me, and the feeling is mutual.

lucy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:34 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:24 pm I kind of lost motivation from how I was feeling D1 and especially after D1 this game. Sometimes I feel like nobody really is good at being town - or rather, nobody is really good at reads or have a high read accuracy over time. Being town is of course about other things than being right. Being mafia is much easier. But I also find it very stressful, so I rarely enjoy myself when I'm mafia. This is probably not that interesting nor relevant, but in short, video mafia is cool and you should all play when it happens =p

I've only had 3 mafia rands in 5 months after 20 games in that timespan, I find town to be repetitive, it's nice playing with someone like you who as town you're either an auto NK or you'll catch mafia, easiest players to deal with (with my read accuracy I'm in the same box atm)

Yeah. So here we are and I cased mafia on D2, caught mafia with some other cool folks D3, and what have you done, my little dove?

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:37 am 3 town kill powers...

This is before I claim the Ruri NK. And it's just a slip. So that's nice.
It's also dripping of what I like to call factional detestation, to get fancy.
It's a pretty good tell when this leaks through in posts, either town detesting mafia or mafia detesting town, like in this example. The implication here being that it's unfair that town has three kills to work with.

lucy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:06 amshit analysis

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:15 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:09 pm Mafia are between Violet, Rico and Lucy. I'm quite confident here. It's ok if I'm wrong, but it will take some convincing to get me off this view. It just a matter of what constellation.

question: if epig/daisy are town, why did mafia shoot boq, who TR me and rico

that's what I'm thinking about

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:29 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:24 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:00 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:59 pm Guess I have to do a meaningless buss vote then.

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Spoiler: show

As in town on town

6-2 at best and you want to lynch town. Unbelievable.

@lucy Is this a town post?

what was rico's previous read on tsp, that might've been a slip but I'm not convinced

This here is subtle, but I believe very telling. There's two important components in these posts:

1. Lucy is thinking about Boq's town reads on Lucy and Rico following the Boq NK.
2. Lucy does not remember Rico's stance on TSP in spite of her having a discussion with Rico about it on D2.

This is the complete wrong focus to have. It shows that she is more concerned with specific details of the NK than solving the players she interacts with. Or to put it another way: She is getting to a point by using (hand picking) information ("But these town reads by Boq") instead of using information (naturally) to get to a point (Which would be to actually remember interactions and have a natural map of the game and it's players. But Lucy doesn't need to solve Rico, so there's no point in remembering what Rico's stance on TSP was, even thought it was a pretty contentious point in the thread and if Lucy was town she would definitely consider it and consider if Rico had TMI on TSP.

But instead she focuses in on her and Rico being town reads in Boq's list.
Boq was in fact killed as a function of his role, given his flip.

As an aside, she also completely misses my point in calling out the Rico post ("6-2 at best and you want to lynch town. Unbelievable.") in question. My point was not that it was a possible slip. My point was that it was possibly the single most awkward sounding post I've ever seen playing mafia. It was over acting to the point of me calling it outing in an instant. If I wasn't me, but someone like Mac or something instead, I would've pounced on Rico so hard the following day that Nook would give me a vig shot just to shoot Rico just to make me shut up. I have a lot of regrets in this game. But I'm maybe not as bad at mafia as I think. (Except we all are bad tbh. It's impossible to actually be good at this game.)

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:39 pm Lucy
daisy

violet

epig
trebuchet
twink

After making a point of the Boq kill clearing Rico in her eyes, and after making it clear that she now mafia reads me, because she still think it's one in me and Rico, but she now thinks Rico is town, she still puts both me and Rico in her mafia reads/PoE. This is just disingenuous, and she is again showing that she is not actually solving.


*I forgot to quote the post, but Lucy simply saying "Shit analysis" to Rico's analysis of Dolby interactions is also very indicative of how w/w interactions go. It's the same energy as Rico saying that Dolby was boasting. "If we are kind of mean to each other in thread, they will never suspect us together!"

---

Dolby

Dolby wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:49 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:45 pm

Dolby wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:44 pm 1/4th of the way to Dolby (4)

what's your experience, read accuracy, and strengths/weaknesses as mafia and town

are u gonna lowpost?

eh i do stuff and can pretty meticulous when i want to put the effort in to be meticulous

but i don't really anymore

probably gonna lowpost tbh

I see moonwink doesn't get a question about her mafia play, she fool you recently or something?

This is such a picky question from Dolby, which is very typical of w/w interaction.
Here's some posts where Dolby is talking about Lucy and puts her in the bottom with Moon and TH. He also announces twice that he will likely vote TH, when Lucy is the other option.

---

Rico
This case is long. But here's a bunch of post that is Rico on Lucy. It's actually what would give me the most pause, because Rico takes a pretty consistent anti-Lucy stance throughout the game. He doesn't push it a lot, and not when Lucy is in danger. He also doesn't vote Lucy on D1, but rather is the sole vote on Moon. But he does vote Lucy eventually both D2 and D3. It would probably have to be planned distancing. I don't think Lucy was in much actual danger of being chopped on D2. The D3 vote would have to be a planned bus. I do think it's strange that Rico didn't just go at me. But maybe he was self conscious about doing that when Lucy was the one leading the charge. (He also did go after me in the end when he got desperate.)

Here's something from his analysis on Lucy that I find very w/w indicative:

If wolf/if town scenarios don’t reveal too much nuance, I think. If town, this is overall a weird play, with less-than-promised aspects of case-making, and I concede that I will have more to learn and reflect on this gameplay of hers post-game. If wolf, it would be a sort of float around play, lynches would align in same way Dizzy’s would i.e. cleaning town.

He is basically saying that if Lucy is town, she's basically playing like a goose and that he will have to "reflect on this gameplay post-game". Lol. This is not mafia talking about town. This is mafia talking about mafia. There is nobody to offend here when he knows Lucy is not town.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:59 pm @Epignosis
@Spacedaisy

I'm going to write a case on Lucy, but Rico is outing her here as well.
Rico tried to survive to last minute, saying bye to town and saying he hopes the kill gets blocked (he was aware that it was MYLO). Here he pings Epig and Daisy to potentially change their mind. If any of Daisy or Epig switches to me, then me and Violet are chopped instead since mafia decides between ties. He outs Daisy as town by pinging her, and he outs me and Violet as town as well by trying to get the last ditch effort in for a fail on town's part.

Starting with how Violet is not mafia.

As I pointed out already last day, Rico showed TMI that Violet is town.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:58 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:52 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:38 pm Forgot a third point I was gonna make, but it came back now: your slankvig shot is the only night-only vig shot that you ask of us to interpret assuredly as town. As in, mafia arguably only nightkills, all confirmed town vigs did it during the Day, yet yours is night-bound, but also confirmable town. How?

I don't act as if I'm not listening, if that's what your feeling, so try not to take it that way.

Roles factor in, for sure. If I were to go the exoneration path entirely and clear you and Violet, I would be left with only two viable candidates. lucy and Daisy. Can we work on that?

Roles factor aside, I cannot clear you for your gameplay. Emotional-tinged as claiming "you tried to solve the game" may be, I don't see clearance in that since both Days you wagoned lynches with no belief in being mafia.

Mafia wouldn’t get a multiple shot vig, no matter how conditional. And if they actually did, they wouldn’t let it go. That’s the end of my argument. It being not totally unthinkable to plural you is not something that makes me a good vote. Forget about confirming. Is it likely. Beyond that, I’m still not mafia. If people still want to vote me, that is their prerogative, and they can argue for how it was like totally a rational choice with the information on hand after the game.

I’m not exonerating Violet based on role. In my game, game 3, mafia had exactly a loverizer role. (Although in that game roles and alignments were random).

I addressed the end of your argument. This role, as mafia, could have been dropped in light of witnessing that under-5 and over-150 post count are extremely unlikely to occur in this game.

"I'm not exonerating Violet based on role"

So, if Violet is mafia loverizer, and Violet's description of the role is genuine, Violet would explode upon mafia killing them. Aka their teammates.

Make that make sense. Make the role make sense as mafia role, as per how Violet described it.

You are also not addressing that VIolet does not confirm your loverizer take. (#977)

This is genuine confusion as to how Violet could possibly be mafia with their claim. There's two big problems with this:
a) Rico does not realistically consider the possibility of Violet just lying about their claim, but instead discusses Violet's role in the same way he discusses my role (which is mod confirmed) and more importantly
b) He's not able to imagine how Violet's claim could be true, while the actual alignment could be the opposite. He doesn't consider the scenario that Violet is telling the truth about loverizing, but did it as mafia instead of doing it as town.

This is yet another thing that ticked me off to Rico and why I wanted him over anyone else.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:18 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:13 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:10 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:10 pm

Violet wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:32 pm Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.

@Ricochet Is this the post you are referring to?

Yes.

And you can’t see how that possibly can be a mafia role?

If Violet did not lie about the role description, then... no?

I'm smelling the mafia TMI off of him and is pressing him about it. And he confirms it.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:38 pm Dizzy and Violet blowing up as lovers hinges on Dizzy and Violet having been loverized which Dizzy claims and Violet has called it "mistaken".

This is also genuine confusion as to what actually happened between me and Violet.

All of what you see here is textbook TMI.
It's the same TMI that Rico showed regarding TSP. He could genuinely not understand how TSP was not confirmed town by recommending to shoot Dolby.

---

Violet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:22 pm I'm now caught up. I do not think Lucy is the right kill here, so I will put my vote on Rico.

Honestly, I would prefer blowing up both me and Dizzy over chopping Lucy.

This is Violet coming in 40 minutes before EoD, and there are three votes on Lucy. I do not see any realistic reason to just come in and decide to bus your teammate when the numbers are 4/2 and it's MYLO. If we had mischopped yesterday, we would have lost, baring some night actions saving us.

But there is no reason in my mind for Violet to come in and suggest a chop on the teammate, when in that world, town was fully engage in chopping Lucy. It would be better for Violet to chop me in that world, as at least that would get rid of one town. However:

Violet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:33 pm

Violet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:22 pm I'm now caught up. I do not think Lucy is the right kill here, so I will put my vote on Rico.

Honestly, I would prefer blowing up both me and Dizzy over chopping Lucy.

Order of preference: Rico > Me + Dizzy >>>> Lucy

This is Violet's preference that he is acting on.

---

Violet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:15 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:53 am

Violet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:29 am
Can anyone more familiar with the site confirm if violations against AtE policy are brought up in the thread like this? At first I didn't think about it, but considering the theme of the game, this might be related to a some in game ability.

Dunno how Nanook enforces AtE policy in other games, but it's probably ability-related, given the theme of this game.

Town, wolf, indy ability, though?

This reply does raise concern as it is quite clear the ability is related to the "staff" ie. the wolves in this game. Town has AtE as their theme, so if ou had a town role, you'd know the power belongs to wolves.

As wolves you would also know the power belongs to wolves though. However, as a wolf you could miss that town could easily figure out to who this ability belongs as you don't actually have to do any of the figuring out.

Earlier in the game we also had this very specific accusation about how Rico read a role flip. This is not a mafia on mafia interaction. This may be harder for me to explain, but I'm quite sure of this, as the type of "you're not aware of the town theme and therefore you are mafia".

---

I've had some concerns earlier about Rico/Violet being possible, mostly just because of an offhand comment Rico made in our prize chat on D1, about Violet being totally out of the loop, or something akin to that. I didn't understand his reasoning for treating Ruri and Violet different, or what made Violet more out of the loop than Ruri. However, this was an offhand comment when we discussed who we would target with the unknown action we had. He didn't prefer to target any of the lurkers.

I think the evidence for Violet being town greatly outweighs that. Especially Rico showing TMI of Violet being town and Violet choosing to advocate for chopping Rico when he strictly did not have to do that.

In the off chance that I'm wrong about this, and somehow Rico managed to fake the confusion and taking Violet's claim as a town claim for granted, and Violet somehow decided to bus his teammate in MYLO for lolz, then ok, sometimes you do roll a 20. But it's extremely, extremely unlikely imo.

@Spacedaisy Please read and consider this.

I think there is a risk to sleeping and not anything to gain from it. This is not a mystery. The game is solved afaic, and we have the whole day if there's any doubt left. We don't know what roles are in play and what will happen with night actions. So that is my concern with sleeping.

In fact @Violet if we somehow live in a terrible world where Lucy is not mafia and it is in fact Daisy (or me from your perspective), then it would actually benefit us to not sleep, as your action will will still be able to save us.

If you both vote sleep, that is what will happen. But I think it's an unnecessary risk without gains.

Before the flip is updated, I have role info.

Lucy’s role is based on early Rackets on TS. It’s offensive and defensive.

Epig’s role is based on culture clash regarding posting volume. It’s also offensive and defensive.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:03 am https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... .57_AM.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... .39_AM.png

Lol

Votes are locked in champ.

Votes aren’t locked here. All me, Violet or Daisy would have to do to chop you over Rico would be to not initiate the switch.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:05 am it was obviously optimal for mafia to bus lol, nobody is conf

dizzy why are you acting like you don’t know this

Why would that be optimal? It was presumably 6/2. That would make it mylo and auto loss for town if we missed.

Why are you acting like it’s remotely possible for me to be mafia?

It’s a no for me.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:51 am I think sleep is the right choice here, personally.

I don't believe it's Dizzy. I think it's either Violet or lucy, personally.

It's not Violet, because he literally came in late D3 and was like "No, I don't think we should go Lucy, we should go Rico". There's no need to do that in a world Lucy is town and Violet is mafia. He could've just waited and let town hang themselves. It was MYLO at the time, so if we had gotten it wrong, mafia would've just won. I followed Violet on Rico, as I also thought that was better, and I asked you to change too. Everyone except Lucy is clear, and it's just Lucy. So turns out it didn't matter if we changed it from Lucy to Rico anyway.

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:28 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:26 am

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:10 pm [VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine

yeah dizzy/violet last one, probably dizzy
not daisy
gg's

Lol

I don’t think this was the angle to take

how so? the game is solved from my perspective, daisy is thread spewed town, I'm town, eg one in you dizzy and I don't particularly care who because you're lovers

We’re not lovers anymore.

Choose who you want to case. It will be interesting