The Syndicate

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:59 pm I'm sure the arbiters had to shift gears after falcon flipped, but the thing is that if they intended to send someone to go deep, it would likely have been Rico, who apparently went so deep that he got NK'd lol. Unless that was just a super good vig shot.
Cause I'm guessing they didn't really expect Rico to die before Lemon, and as I said earlier, I thought Rico was one of the most ignored players from the West Facility because almost nobody was talking about his slot. I feel like it would be weird to also have Delta in that position, where Rico was mostly townread and Delta was mostly scumread, but both were treated as if they were background characters in this thread.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:54 pm I guess my biggest question is, how likely is it that all of the Arbiters decided to avoid interacting with their last partner?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:11 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 2:15 pm Anyway, dumping the first batch.

Wagoners*

* given the VC at the time of submitting this
NB: not sure the poll reflects the vote chronology as well, but I'll just roll with the names as they appear

falcon

Monroe
-- seems to have parked on falcon just now, despite all their posts being bark back at Epignosis. I suppose it counts as self-pres?
-- just to add to their read, minus point for their recent post aimed at Epignosis, tone still aggro defensive and not the most respectable wording towards Epignosis, either

sig
pyxxy connection: labelled it as unlikely
much of what I've noted down from sig's activity is in fact case-making on falcon, arguments being that falcon is within wolf range and that the Western night kills could show pattern of clean-up in his aid. also admits mindmeld with leetic on the night kills angle. seems fine

Master Radishes
-- for someone from East, therefore info-less on falcon, vote drop was sudden, without hint of inquiry or reading into others' takes and a bit of "nuh-uh" retort to falcon calling it opportunistic (even prodding him to vote back). not ideal elements. later more elaborate, dismissing falcon's "exasperation" as outweighed by poor tone, something I do meld with.
-- had a good impression of him otherwise - active in developing reads and opinionated on enough players and events - but this on its own is a mixed bag

Windward
-- noted her more of a Lemon wagoner for much of D3; falcon switch comes down to disliking falcon's "opportunism" rebuttal at Radishes, it seems. bit cheeky to word it as "happy to join the opportunistic train". later camps reactive attitude, in principle, towards mafia lean. again, had more interest in others, but I can see how the view on falcon might have soured in time and treat the gameplay as wolf-likely
-- activity-wise, I'd rate Windward towny. ample material, not gonna develop full read at this time.

Long Con
pyxxy connection: labelled him sussworthy
-- it is accurate that LC has suss on falcon throughout West period
-- it is also accurate that his waffle on falcon came from trusting Abigail's tone/meta read, true both during West time and during D3 here
-- as far as coming back on falcon wagon, late on seems to make a read - not agreeing with his towning claim, finding his counter-suspicions omgusey. think it's adequate
-- didn't note down any pings from LC today tbh, though overall I find him a bit puzzling. his D3 is probably the better-looking phase of his activity thus far, engaged and opinionated more on the topics, but at times I also he's tagteaming others (much "starting to see this" responses), quite the buddy dynamic with Epignosis, lighthearted banter and focused replies in equal measures. ech, probably wouldn't focus on deciphering this for now

leetic
pyxxy connection: labeled him unlikely
-- pretty much wagons falcon for the nightkill angle; dismisses falcon's defense on that as wifom; don't recall him tackling any other point about falcon
-- really conflicted about leetic overall: was my topwolf pick and vote D1, the aggro-tone was prevalent; Abigail (in West) and Dizzy (in here) mentioned that this is normal leetic; then D2 he shifts into a Pyxxy Scientist (ISO'ing interactions), drop most of the prod and poke tone, a solving attitude I shared and in turned like;
-- now? I'm seeing way less of D2. announced ISOs from West D2, did not deliver; had to defend a bit re: gifting a player who flipped wolf, don't know if that's a topic of suss. informed the merged group of his Pyxxy Science findings, that's fair. couple more reads (Nanook for instance), no definitive wording. still, really slowed down performance. puzzling.

DrWilgy
-- seems to base and bank his falcon vote on lack of townspewing alone. I'd label this a tad narrowing
-- no developed read on his activity atm. word that came to mind, upon quick scroll, was "scrambled". perhaps within expectations.

Ok so here's the first thing. Rico hedged a LOT on leetic here, but in fairness, I don't know what happened in the West Facility so I'm missing a bit of context from earlier. His read on me is here too, if either of you want to look at it. He wrote no such readlist including Delta, but he wrote an earlier one before this including Lemon and falcon so I'm gonna compare it below.

Spoiler: show

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:10 pm So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.

Wagons

Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.

Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.

So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon

falcon

West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment

Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.

Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.

tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply

Distanced/bussed falcon and hedged on Lemon. Note that it was probably easier for Rico to slip out of reading Lemon because they were split for two days. He did the same to DM, who was town in the other thread.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:32 pm Epignosis wrt Delta pauses me a lot toDay.

He was chief detective on case-making Delta D2 wrt pyxxy interactions (lifelining him intermittently and starting what proved pyxxy's counterwagon chance). The thing about too many townreads was also a point.

Then the Delta wagon fizzled through.

And now Epignosis comes into the merge with just that one point about the townreads.

Rico has this side mentioning of Delta by way of focusing on Epi's treatment of them, and without directly giving a read on Delta here. It's like Rico is gearing to push Epi on the basis of not following through on Delta, which I kind of think could go either way on Delta. The next mention of Delta is more direct, though.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:51 pm I'm le tired.

I didn't even process Delta toDay.
Only note I had was that they noted Davos's drive-by vote on Lemon. No input.

Delta was my main pyxxy teammate profile, though. In that regard, I melded with Epig's D2 case. Signs of lifelining pyxxy into playing better and creating a cushion for a feasible counterwagon, till it proved too late. Could be.

"I didn't even process Delta toDay" is a very odd thing to say about a teammate. I mean, yes, it can be faked, but the wording is more specific than that because Rico is saying he forgot about Delta, but still hedging on the slot. This comes more often from wolves on town, than wolves on their partners.

Spoiler: show

Ricochet wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 5:56 pm

wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:42 pm Delta - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

Delta wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 3:27 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:48 am

Delta wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:39 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:06 am I'd beg people to get off falcon but my thoughts on falcon are confusing and jumbled and I don't want to hurt town by pulling votes off a wolf if I'm wrong ugh


That said I'm rarely wrong on falcon. But Caitlin got me doubting myself...

What got you to your v!Falcon read to begin with?

I had something similar to this yesterday with people pushing Porscha ;_; so at least let's run through why you townread him to begin with and work from there? If you're rarely wrong on him, walk me through how you read him to begin with?

\o/

I read falcon entirely off vibes and D1 I hard town read how he was vibing lol

ah, got it

Delta wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:43 pm of our thread, I feel most confident in LC/Abbi/Sloonei/Ricochet town, Epi/Leetic/TSP to a slightly lesser extent. Leaves question marks around Falcon/Sig. if there's town in either would go back and look at those I'm not as confident.

From the other side of the thread, I think WWA/DrWilgy/MR/Nutella have all seemed fine to me, nothing sure due to being first day back w both threads but that's my gut read for the opposing thread. Off of pure gut read I dont really think DM's reactions today feel wolfy, more in line with what I've skimmed from town games, but without seeing other thread there's only so much I can say on that. The rest have kinda just been white noise, Cape slight town ping but nothing huge.

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I'm more comfortable voting within my facility today, as I mentioned earlier, so \o/
glgl o/

wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:02 pm member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

Emoji post ^
And interestingly enough, the first time Rico interacts directly with Delta in the thread is when he's (supposedly) under post restriction. I'm not going to try to make sense of it right this second because I have a headache and trying to decode emojis isn't really helping, but it's some food for thought.
How much did Rico interact with Delta in the West thread? It sounded like there was a push there, but what about direct interactions?

Spoiler: show

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 3:46 pm

wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:42 pm leetic - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:21 pm So Seanzie was mostly tunneling Porscha D2 but he also suspected falcon and Sig.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:30 pm Looking at Caitlin's EoD, she was also suspecting falcon. When two nightkills in a row point to the same person, I simply can't ignore that. [VOTE: falcon] aubergine

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:24 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:33 pm Has nobody stopped to consider that scum falcon killing players who SR him is about as subtle as a brick?







Fur reelz, I have way more panache than that

WIFOM

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:51 pm Anyway, I'm fine with a falcon vote.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:44 am

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:26 pm

Sig was CW to Porscha. I'll have to reread everything though. I didn't expect the Seanzie NK, so might have to look over his reads.

Who did you think would be NK'd?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:41 pm There's min 2 wolves on my wagon IMO, and it's between leetic/sig & MR/Abi







Apologies if you're all town, but I highly doubt it

wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:02 pm member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

And another emoji post, this time reactions to leetic. Again, it's the first time Rico has interacted with leetic directly in this thread. How did it look over in West? (I feel like a broken record, repeating questions like this, I'm sorry lmao)

Spoiler: show

Ricochet wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:55 pm

wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:42 pm WindwardAway - posts
falcon45ca - posts - Stanley Yelnats IV (Mafia)

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:22 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:20 pm I am curious
to hear the case on Delta
that has been mentioned


Curious that sig
and falcon are both suspects;
had early good vibes

I suspected both sig and falcon in the N0 thread lol
maybe it's time I should do a little backreading but I'd like to hear the cases on them too

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:55 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:47 am Wait, there's art






Imma check it out

The submissions are great

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:37 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:04 pm Of the voters on my wagon, Abi & MR look the most opportunistic









[VOTE: freon] aubergine

who's Freon?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:38 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:07 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:05 pm Your vote on my wagon feels opportunistic.

No it doesn't.

I like MR's response here

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:48 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:44 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:34 pm "Opportunistic"
is such an overused word
never good reason

It's the cheapest and easiest go-to reason for a Wolf to use as (part of) a reason to cast a vote on someone.

Town probably use it sometimes as well, it's an understandable way to feel when you're feeling besieged.

But mostly wolfy.

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine I do not feel like this is opportunistic, since I've made a case on you in the past, and have you in the red zone of my rainbow list.

I use the word more when I'm town, but regardless, I'm happy to join the "opportunism" :P

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

don't think falcon's doing himself any favors right now.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:41 pm

Falcon hasn't shared any townreads?
@falcon45ca is this true?

wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:02 pm member of the Arbiters of the Rose Empire

wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:42 pm WindwardAway - posts
☆Princess Abigail☆ - posts - Turtle on a Log (Mafia)

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:47 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:11 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 12:57 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 12:56 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:32 pm

These people could all be overestimating their own abilities.

I'd personally love to know who these people are

You're one of them.

I rescinded cause Caitlin than rescinded my rescind cause me again

Vote: DM

ah, I see it now (Abbi back to townreading falcon)
hmm

wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:02 pm member of the Landlords

Man, this is so tedious
Here's Rico's emoji reactions to me in case you guys wanna see it. He did talk to me directly before the emojiposting, though, when I asked him to give reads and he spit out those readlists I quoted earlier.

I think from Ricochet's ISO I lean slightly more town on Delta, because of the way it seemed like Rico tried to keep suspicion on the slot more consistently than on leetic, but he didn't push to yeet Delta the way he openly advocated to kill falcon. That sort of backhanded pushing is more likely on town.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:47 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:38 pm Yeah, WWA was quite quick to take Delta's offer of casing me without slowing down to also consider Delta. It looks like a wolf that wants to take the most convenient path to survival, so that's another point against them.

That's incorrect, I didn't comment on the falcon post because falcon had *no* interactions at all with Delta. Rico on the other hand mentioned Delta a couple of times, mainly in context of their wagon in the West. I'm trying to rewrite and requote what I had, but I'm on my phone so sorry for the slowness.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:22 pm

Delta wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:21 pm it doesnt take into account everything, just to highlight a disparity

can both of you run through the flipped arbiters' posts here and try case the other off of them? I'll do so myself as well but I do want to focus on partner interactions since this was a team that came into the thread with every wolf alive, so there is more there

Yes sure
I believe leetic already cased me off the arbiter interactions today btw

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:27 pm Falcon

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:44 am

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:26 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:24 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:22 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:18 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:16 pm Was porscha nked or voted out?

from the order i
guess spacedaisy was the yeet
porscha and sean night?

Spacedaisy was modkilled or day vigged, Porscha was the lynch

oh huh alright then
was there counter to porscha
anyone look bad

Sig was CW to Porscha. I'll have to reread everything though. I didn't expect the Seanzie NK, so might have to look over his reads.

Who did you think would be NK'd?

This is falcon's only interaction with leetic

Delta wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:15 pm the issue is if I disregard a mech standpoint:

I came into this thread townleaning WWA & I pushed you D1 in our thread

so while I feel like speculation around mech leads me to WWA, reads wise I feel like I should lean you?

which is why I want to be thorough with this, try build a pros/cons kind of thing for both

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:13 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:07 pm The more I think about it, the less likely a significant disparity of 3 vs 1 wolf in one thread seems. I'm glad Delta seems to be stepping up here, I was a bit worried the game might already be lost due to them not showing up.

But there's a disparity no matter how you frame it. Landlords already had one more in one thread. Mech discussion has been closed, and I believe the arbiters had some form of mech compensation since they didn't have a puppet.

Delta wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:09 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:07 pm The more I think about it, the less likely a significant disparity of 3 vs 1 wolf in one thread seems. I'm glad Delta seems to be stepping up here, I was a bit worried the game might already be lost due to them not showing up.

;_; I do apologise, been a series of unfortunate events & other things that are my fault

this is the first f3 ive been part of and being handed hammer - its not really hammer but theres the cross there so it does feel like it comes down to me - is terrifying so I want to be thorough, both from a mech standpoint and a reads one

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:25 am Doing a quick skim of yesterday and I just feel no urgency from Delta to solve
I mean yeah it could be easily explained by Wilgy being pretty much guaranteed to flip by popular vote
Which is why I said yesterday it felt like Delta was just sitting back and letting things happen. But I don't know if that's a wolfy approach. I guess Wilgy was right and we were in LyLo yesterday too meaning if we'd landed on town, town would already have lost and we would've been picking which wolf we wanted to win, lol

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 7:02 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:59 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:18 pm

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:02 pm I could see whatever mafia team killed Nutella to have a member in the East than the other team to have someone in the West.

This would mean WWA/Wilgy still have mafia potential.

Epi doesn’t make sense as mafia for either team right now given that he’s encouraging we look at both areas.

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:09 pm I’ve got that end of game certainty now that the final two mafia are Wilgy and Leetic. I’ve got very little solid reasoning to back this up, but it just seems like the most logic thing, having said that I will be reading up on those two before eod and hopefully everyone else also, but it just doesn’t seem viable that both mafia are West with only 2 West players left

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:09 pm [VOTE: Leetic] aubergine

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:11 pm Or I guess it could be delta, but they read very genuine as a lost civ, Epi seems to have been hunting both team evenly, and I guess that leaves WWA.

Now the big reason to suspect Leetic is they seem to have really slowed down and take a back seat. I also find the way they’re pushing Nutella read post death to be a bit scummy.

I’m open to hearing other thoughts, buuuuut given I literally don’t have a town core anymore I prob won’t listen

I've been reading through D7 again and Sig's reads caught my attention again
I said yesterday that I didn't see Wilgy making the Sig kill except maybe for one post above these quotes, where Sig said Wilgy was pretty towny but also probably was a wolf anyway.
But looking at these reads again, they also point to the possibility that leetic could've killed Sig. I'm certain Delta couldn't have killed Sig because of their missed votes, and I think Sig's leetic take is notable, given that leetic and Wilgy had been pushing each other all day. Of course this still could've been a Wilgy kill, but either way I think leetic/Wilgy being wolf vs wolf in the thread is a pretty striking take. I said that I thought it *could* be two wolves consolidating on the Davos wagon just before eod, and it wasn't Epi, and it also wasn't me.

What I said in my observation that day, when Wilgy and leetic were going back and forth, was that leetic seemed to be focused on pushing whoever was about to perform the next night kill, while Wilgy was pushing whoever he thought was wolfiest. I still believe Wilgy was genuinely wolfhunting at that point in time, because I thought at least some of his case against leetic made sense, but I shelved it because I believed Wilgy was simply more likely to flip wolf, and Davos was going to be a key flip (and I was right about that). I believe that leetic pushing on the basis of "who performed the kill on which night" is a pretty convenient way for a wolf to hunt a wolf on the opposing team, because they can genuinely focus on it while knowing already which kills were theirs.

I was Wilgy's secondary push that day. Wilgy said I probably wouldn't flip town, but didn't put any casework into pushing me until the next day when it was very blatantly OMGUS. Feel free to go through his case on me from yesterday and tell me whether you believe any of it was valid, btw. The tone of it was nothing like how he cased leetic the day before. And when I look at leetic's response to being pushed by Wilgy, I see that they drop their push on me to start pushing Wilgy back. Suddenly their case on me takes a backseat to Wilgy, and notably I'm not really pushing leetic at all there. I fence-sit for a while, say that I think leetic is wolfier but Wilgy is more likely to flip wolf, and that I think we need the Davos flip first. What I think now is that Sig saw how leetic shifted gears when being pushed, and correctly determined that it was the last two wolves pushing each other.

There are a couple of holes in this case. Number one, Epi died tonight, and he couldn't have been killed by the landlords. If I'm the arbiter and kills are alternating I could not have killed sig.

Wait a second
If kills are still alternating despite the landlords being dead, then if we no-lunch today, you're claiming that nobody would die tonight as a result.
That seems super weird because then this is MyLo and not LyLo.

Delta wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:51 pm I feel like I've asked before so sorry if I have

do you have a wolf game I could skim? could be here or offsite

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:18 pm

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:02 pm I could see whatever mafia team killed Nutella to have a member in the East than the other team to have someone in the West.

This would mean WWA/Wilgy still have mafia potential.

Epi doesn’t make sense as mafia for either team right now given that he’s encouraging we look at both areas.

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:09 pm I’ve got that end of game certainty now that the final two mafia are Wilgy and Leetic. I’ve got very little solid reasoning to back this up, but it just seems like the most logic thing, having said that I will be reading up on those two before eod and hopefully everyone else also, but it just doesn’t seem viable that both mafia are West with only 2 West players left

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:09 pm [VOTE: Leetic] aubergine

sig wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:11 pm Or I guess it could be delta, but they read very genuine as a lost civ, Epi seems to have been hunting both team evenly, and I guess that leaves WWA.

Now the big reason to suspect Leetic is they seem to have really slowed down and take a back seat. I also find the way they’re pushing Nutella read post death to be a bit scummy.

I’m open to hearing other thoughts, buuuuut given I literally don’t have a town core anymore I prob won’t listen

I've been reading through D7 again and Sig's reads caught my attention again
I said yesterday that I didn't see Wilgy making the Sig kill except maybe for one post above these quotes, where Sig said Wilgy was pretty towny but also probably was a wolf anyway.
But looking at these reads again, they also point to the possibility that leetic could've killed Sig. I'm certain Delta couldn't have killed Sig because of their missed votes, and I think Sig's leetic take is notable, given that leetic and Wilgy had been pushing each other all day. Of course this still could've been a Wilgy kill, but either way I think leetic/Wilgy being wolf vs wolf in the thread is a pretty striking take. I said that I thought it *could* be two wolves consolidating on the Davos wagon just before eod, and it wasn't Epi, and it also wasn't me.

What I said in my observation that day, when Wilgy and leetic were going back and forth, was that leetic seemed to be focused on pushing whoever was about to perform the next night kill, while Wilgy was pushing whoever he thought was wolfiest. I still believe Wilgy was genuinely wolfhunting at that point in time, because I thought at least some of his case against leetic made sense, but I shelved it because I believed Wilgy was simply more likely to flip wolf, and Davos was going to be a key flip (and I was right about that). I believe that leetic pushing on the basis of "who performed the kill on which night" is a pretty convenient way for a wolf to hunt a wolf on the opposing team, because they can genuinely focus on it while knowing already which kills were theirs.

I was Wilgy's secondary push that day. Wilgy said I probably wouldn't flip town, but didn't put any casework into pushing me until the next day when it was very blatantly OMGUS. Feel free to go through his case on me from yesterday and tell me whether you believe any of it was valid, btw. The tone of it was nothing like how he cased leetic the day before. And when I look at leetic's response to being pushed by Wilgy, I see that they drop their push on me to start pushing Wilgy back. Suddenly their case on me takes a backseat to Wilgy, and notably I'm not really pushing leetic at all there. I fence-sit for a while, say that I think leetic is wolfier but Wilgy is more likely to flip wolf, and that I think we need the Davos flip first. What I think now is that Sig saw how leetic shifted gears when being pushed, and correctly determined that it was the last two wolves pushing each other.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:50 pm

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:27 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:53 pm

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:48 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:44 pm

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:39 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:36 pm Lemon I think has been lurking quite a lot.

I've not lurked, I've been absent

because I was busy

Fair
Have any of your reads changed since the falcon flip?

haven't sorted them yet but I like Epi's case posts

ig leetic's were not bad either

Ok, thanks for sharing.
Do you have any thoughts as to whether someone on falcon's team bussed him or if his partners stayed off of his wagon?

with so many people on him, yeah, they probably bussed

I mean, if he was going to go over anyway, why not get the cred?

even though there were two other wagons as options (DMs and yours), and at that point none of falcon's team had flipped yet?
or do you mean more of a late bus when it seemed like he was almost definitely going over?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:51 pm

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:31 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:55 pm

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:52 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:45 pm

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:40 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:36 pm the fact that she went back to low engagement

you mean "no engagement" (this is assuming you haven't yet read my most recent posts)
this kind of feels like you're making stuff up

I said "low" because I couldn't remember any and I skipped a chunk of posts in my catchup. The last time I accused someone of "no engagement" they had actually posted but I didn't see their posts, so I'm not doing that dumb thing again.

Anyway, I thought you townread me? What's with the hostility?

oh
that's fair ig

I thought you were making up some BS reason to scumread me out of nowhere
which now I know was my mistake

carry on

??
you're the one who pointed out that I had actually sussed you in the East Facility thread before. it wouldn't be a reason I pulled out of nowhere as an excuse to scumread you, for sure.

I don't think I said anything of the sort
iirc the reason you sussed me in the first place was because I had you consistently at the bottom of each of my read lists (which I explained were unordered) and also due to my low activity, which was fair enough

but saying I had low activity when I in fact was not actually in the thread makes me think you made up your suspicion on me because it reads to me like you are acting as though you've read my posts when you haven't
and it's an easy breezy way to start scumreading someone artificially
hence my reaction

all right
it would be stupid for me to lie intentionally about your activity to push you if it's easy enough for anyone to look for receipts in the thread, though

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:59 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:52 pm

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:07 pm how are y'all not seeing this?
am I the crazy one?

I'm good with Cape or DarlingMonroe dying today.

I'd rather Cape than DM
but why not Lemon?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 1:54 am

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:12 pm I'm thinking DM/Wilgy/Nanook as my top SRs

DM/Nanook on one team
Wilgy on the other

only there's a wrench here because DM and Nanook have just been sitting on my wagon for the last 2 days and I don't think partners would do that
it'd be too obvious

Isn't that like, all the remaining lowposters from East Facility? Lol

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:26 am

Cape90 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 3:53 am legit dunno how people push lemon when imo they have put in a good deal of effort sorting people out despite post count

I still need to finish reading her wallpost
I will say that she makes posts like that more as town than as scum, though

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:41 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:10 pm So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.

Wagons

Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.

Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.

So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon

falcon

West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment

Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.

Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.

tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply

Falcon hasn't shared any townreads?
@falcon45ca is this true?

And actually, the way Lemon said she expires D3/D4 made it sound more like she might die from a mechanical effect and not just because she might get lunched. I could be reading into it too much, though, and I know she can't confirm or deny it.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:22 pm anyone wanna discuss the Lemonfairy and DM wagons yesterday that were the alternatives to falcon's wagon? I would not be surprised if we had all remaining landlords (including Abbi) on falcon and the Arbiters on the counterwagons.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:54 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:00 pm Who is trying to sabotage the team?

Poll ended at Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:00:00 pm

Cape90
0
No votes
Voters: None

DarlingMonroe
6
24%
Voters: falcon45ca, Master Radishes, TonyStarkPrime, Epignosis, Sloonei, Lemonfairy

Davos
0
No votes
Voters: None

Delta
1
4%
Voters: nutella

DrWilgy
1
4%
Voters: Cape90

Dyslexicon
0
No votes
Voters: None

Epignosis
0
No votes
Voters: None

falcon45ca
9
36%
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, sig, Delta, WindwardAway, Ricochet, Long Con, leetic, DarlingMonroe, DrWilgy

leetic
1
4%
Voters: Dyslexicon

Lemonfairy
2
8%
Voters: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Davos

Long Con
0
No votes
Voters: None

Master Radishes
0
No votes
Voters: None

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
0
No votes
Voters: None

nutella
0
No votes
Voters: None

☆Princess Abigail☆
0
No votes
Voters: None

Ricochet
0
No votes
Voters: None

Sabiplz
0
No votes
Voters: None

Scrappy Doo
0
No votes
Voters: None

sig
0
No votes
Voters: None

Sloonei
0
No votes
Voters: None

TonyStarkPrime
0
No votes
Voters: None

WindwardAway
0
No votes
Voters: None

Unvote
0
No votes
Voters: None

Coaches/Spectators/Other
5
20%
Voters: Seanzie, JaggedJimmyJay, Caitlin, S~V~S, Scotty

EOD3 votecount.

I think falcon's vote on DM is *probably* indicative that he also may have had teammates on DM and maybe Lemon trying to save him, depending on whether they spread out or tried to consolidate. The one thing about his vote on DM that gives me pause is that he kinda worded it like he was just voting to self-pres, and that's still a move a wolf can make on a teammate, but DM arguably had a sizable wagon on them.

I really question why Davos the sock was voting Lemon rather than falcon, though. And I don't see Scrappy's vote, but at least they've been more active than Davos. I don't know where Davos's reads even come from because all they ever say is "Arrr!" which doesn't really tell us much.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:45 pm

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:40 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:36 pm the fact that she went back to low engagement

you mean "no engagement" (this is assuming you haven't yet read my most recent posts)
this kind of feels like you're making stuff up

I said "low" because I couldn't remember any and I skipped a chunk of posts in my catchup. The last time I accused someone of "no engagement" they had actually posted but I didn't see their posts, so I'm not doing that dumb thing again.

Anyway, I thought you townread me? What's with the hostility?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:11 pm I'll bbl for more discussion
hopefully Lemon will be able to reply to me again before I'm gone for the day

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:08 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:06 am [VOTE: lemonfairy] aubergine

In an atmosphere of groovy solving energy, these posts stick out:

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:50 pmfirst

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:51 pm actually, I'll come back tomorrow

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:52 pm it's nice to have everyone in one thread again but at the same time, it feels so disorienting and I can't remember half of you

she was doing that a bit in the East Facility thread, too
she did come back a couple times to engage some of us who had questions on her reads, but I feel like she wasn't very energetic about solving.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:21 am [VOTE: Lemonfairy] aubergine

I'm fine with this wagon

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:54 am

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:39 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:08 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:06 am [VOTE: lemonfairy] aubergine

In an atmosphere of groovy solving energy, these posts stick out:

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:50 pmfirst

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:51 pm actually, I'll come back tomorrow

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:52 pm it's nice to have everyone in one thread again but at the same time, it feels so disorienting and I can't remember half of you

I agree with this
I made an early hipster
light push on Lemon

She would fit as wolf
from her general vibe in thread
blending in just right

She was active ish
on day one posting readlists,
but almost too nice

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:12 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:08 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:06 am [VOTE: lemonfairy] aubergine

In an atmosphere of groovy solving energy, these posts stick out:

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:50 pmfirst

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:51 pm actually, I'll come back tomorrow

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:52 pm it's nice to have everyone in one thread again but at the same time, it feels so disorienting and I can't remember half of you

I agree with this
I made an early hipster
light push on Lemon

She would fit as wolf
from her general vibe in thread
blending in just right

She was active ish
on day one posting readlists,
but almost too nice

actually, yeah. she had a defense for her reads but wasn't trying too hard to push it as the correct worldview.
in my experience, she's more willing to engage as town, but i've been giving her the benefit of the doubt because i can sympathize with not having a lot of time for this game. but then again, over half of our thread was slanking yesterday and they can't all be scum.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:12 am I quite like that my
and Sloonei's vibe reads match up
so sure, [VOTE: lemon] aubergine

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:21 am [VOTE: Lemonfairy] aubergine

I'm fine with this wagon

and from being tired and too nice

kind of a weak case

All right, @Lemonfairy, if you think the cases against you are bad, do you think that any of us voting you are pushing you in bad faith?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 5:50 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 5:44 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 5:30 pm @Master Radishes talk to me about lemonfairy and their five votes.

Lemonfairy started D1 in the East Facility fairly talkative. Did her own thing and didn't really get mixed up in any larger arguments or discussions. Probably a few individual posts I'd lean 'town' on, but nothing I'd call unfakeable. Readslists seemed a bit questionable (e.g. the quieter Nook and Dizzy higher up, someone chatty like Windy unsorted, a sudden drop of Dizzy, etc) though they all were given explanations. Big drop off D2.

Feels like a slot worth pushing, but not a definite hit.

Haven't really paid attention to the individual votes on her.

I'll chime in here since I think it's a worthwhile discussion.
she sorted me as a townlean later on but I'd have to recheck her reasoning on that.
she didn't really seem to be too interested in my vote on her and acknowledged that I've been questioning her since sometime on D2, so I guess that lines up at least.
I feel like if she's one of those players who loses motivation after losing 2 partners on D1, she probably would flip wolf here, but the 5 votes on her are kind of interesting. I felt decent about Sloonei and nutella voting Lemon, then I voted her too, and then Dizzy and Nook went back and forth on each other but both ultimately landed on Lemon. I'd be curious to hear their reasoning, in their own words, because they're also both from our thread, so I feel like they might have substantial opinions even if they're testing the waters first.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:34 am

Cape90 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:09 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:05 pm

Cape90 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:01 pm

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:12 pm side note, I also agree with whoever proposed we each vote for the scummiest within each facility to make w/w wagons
I think each side has better reads on their own facility than the other and even if we paraphrase, a lot of context can get lost

while we did have N0, it almost feels like I should start over with reads on the West
maybe have 2 separate reads list and then combine them together later

i immediately see this and really question if pushing Lemonfairy is actually a good idea like this just buries lemon more I think, esp when i scroll up and see a bunch of votes on them already

i'm not sure I follow your thought process here.

it's almost like lemon is saying "yeah i agree that i should be shrugyeeted here" like the consensus was here at this time. Like Lemonfairy saying "I also agree with whoever proposed we each vote for the scummiest within each facility" WHEN BY CONSENSUS RIGHT NOW THEY ARE THE SCUMMIEST FROM OUR FACILITY seems rather LMAO to me

I didn't really think of it like that
isn't that a kind of easy thing for scum to fake, though?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 3:17 pm I feel like cape isn't solving with the intent to root out the other mafia team, and not to win the game for town. I think it's very likely his confidence in his reads comes from knowing who he's not teamed with.
And I don't remember him mentioning Ricochet much before suddenly putting them in townreads? I'll try to check again but my flight is boarding soon.
I'm going to move my vote just in case I don't make it back again before eod.

[VOTE: Cape90] aubergine

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:32 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:30 am

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:34 am Weekend laze tis real and hit hard. I wanted nothing but study and sleep and cats and muvis tbh.

Hi ho.

Caught up to page 7 in the last hour. Gonna find another hour, later, to read the rest.

@Ricochet i know it's been a while since you last popped in, but when you catch up, I'd like to hear your take on the current wagons.

I'm curious what your thought process is, and tbh I keep forgetting you're in the game because I haven't seen anyone from West Facility mention having a read on you.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:41 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:10 pm So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.

Wagons

Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.

Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.

So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon

falcon

West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment

Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.

Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.

tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply

Falcon hasn't shared any townreads?
@falcon45ca is this true?

And actually, the way Lemon said she expires D3/D4 made it sound more like she might die from a mechanical effect and not just because she might get lunched. I could be reading into it too much, though, and I know she can't confirm or deny it.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:26 pm why are there two people with supposedly the same post restriction? sig and ricochet
could be one of them faking it, i guess

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:01 pm Maybe I'll look at their ISO more in depth later, but for now I'm fine with just saying WWA isn't an arbiter. They were on Lemonfairy early and only left to vote falcon.

leetic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:01 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:32 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:30 am

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:34 am Weekend laze tis real and hit hard. I wanted nothing but study and sleep and cats and muvis tbh.

Hi ho.

Caught up to page 7 in the last hour. Gonna find another hour, later, to read the rest.

@Ricochet i know it's been a while since you last popped in, but when you catch up, I'd like to hear your take on the current wagons.

I'm curious what your thought process is, and tbh I keep forgetting you're in the game because I haven't seen anyone from West Facility mention having a read on you.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:41 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:10 pm So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.

Wagons

Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.

Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.

So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon

falcon

West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment

Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.

Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.

tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply

Falcon hasn't shared any townreads?
@falcon45ca is this true?

And actually, the way Lemon said she expires D3/D4 made it sound more like she might die from a mechanical effect and not just because she might get lunched. I could be reading into it too much, though, and I know she can't confirm or deny it.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:52 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:43 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:22 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:20 pm I am curious
to hear the case on Delta
that has been mentioned


Curious that sig
and falcon are both suspects;
had early good vibes

I suspected both sig and falcon in the N0 thread lol
maybe it's time I should do a little backreading but I'd like to hear the cases on them too

Suspects falcon from N0

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:48 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:44 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:34 pm "Opportunistic"
is such an overused word
never good reason

It's the cheapest and easiest go-to reason for a Wolf to use as (part of) a reason to cast a vote on someone.

Town probably use it sometimes as well, it's an understandable way to feel when you're feeling besieged.

But mostly wolfy.

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine I do not feel like this is opportunistic, since I've made a case on you in the past, and have you in the red zone of my rainbow list.

I use the word more when I'm town, but regardless, I'm happy to join the "opportunism" :P

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

don't think falcon's doing himself any favors right now.

Surprisingly has like fifty posts after without mentioning falcon, but does vote them when their wagon is starting to pick up momentum. No stated reason beyond vague "don't think falcon's doing himself any favors" and presumed continuity with N0 read

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:27 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:26 pm all of the people who claim to be good at reading falcon, dead and alive, think falcon is town

didn't Abbi change her mind?

Finally, some significant Abby interactions! Speaks on Abby's behalf here while refuting part of a falcon defense

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:48 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:22 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:06 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:33 pm Has nobody stopped to consider that scum falcon killing players who SR him is about as subtle as a brick?







Fur reelz, I have way more panache than that

Ugh I hate that I town read this

Unvote

If it's multiball, then the kill may not have come from him.

To be fair, if it's multiball, then Caitlin dying early to nightkill doesn't clear you either.

I've seen wolf!Abbi kill town!Caitlin on N1 in a game before so I'd never clear her off of that
I think Abbi's been ok so far, though, and judging by what I've heard from her progression in the West Facility, she's probably town

Says they would "never clear" Abby based off the nightkill, still I think Abby was more depending on the bus. Otherwise townreads Abby

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:41 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:10 pm So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.

Wagons

Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.

Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.

So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon

falcon

West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment

Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.

Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.

tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply

Falcon hasn't shared any townreads?
@falcon45ca is this true?

And actually, the way Lemon said she expires D3/D4 made it sound more like she might die from a mechanical effect and not just because she might get lunched. I could be reading into it too much, though, and I know she can't confirm or deny it.

Asks falcon to respond to one of Ricochet's arguments. Otherwise, stays parked on falcon

oh yeah, falcon never replied to me there lmao
so i was happy to keep a vote on him if he wasn't going to counterargue with anything except that he was "towning his ass off" which he wasn't

I think I'll stop here. Yeah, unless Ricochet and WWA had this coordinated bussing effort on falcon, they're not partners.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:43 am

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:22 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:20 pm I am curious
to hear the case on Delta
that has been mentioned


Curious that sig
and falcon are both suspects;
had early good vibes

I suspected both sig and falcon in the N0 thread lol
maybe it's time I should do a little backreading but I'd like to hear the cases on them too

Suspects falcon from N0

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:48 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:44 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:34 pm "Opportunistic"
is such an overused word
never good reason

It's the cheapest and easiest go-to reason for a Wolf to use as (part of) a reason to cast a vote on someone.

Town probably use it sometimes as well, it's an understandable way to feel when you're feeling besieged.

But mostly wolfy.

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine I do not feel like this is opportunistic, since I've made a case on you in the past, and have you in the red zone of my rainbow list.

I use the word more when I'm town, but regardless, I'm happy to join the "opportunism" :P

[VOTE: falcon] aubergine

don't think falcon's doing himself any favors right now.

Surprisingly has like fifty posts after without mentioning falcon, but does vote them when their wagon is starting to pick up momentum. No stated reason beyond vague "don't think falcon's doing himself any favors" and presumed continuity with N0 read

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:27 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:26 pm all of the people who claim to be good at reading falcon, dead and alive, think falcon is town

didn't Abbi change her mind?

Finally, some significant Abby interactions! Speaks on Abby's behalf here while refuting part of a falcon defense

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:48 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:22 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:06 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:33 pm Has nobody stopped to consider that scum falcon killing players who SR him is about as subtle as a brick?







Fur reelz, I have way more panache than that

Ugh I hate that I town read this

Unvote

If it's multiball, then the kill may not have come from him.

To be fair, if it's multiball, then Caitlin dying early to nightkill doesn't clear you either.

I've seen wolf!Abbi kill town!Caitlin on N1 in a game before so I'd never clear her off of that
I think Abbi's been ok so far, though, and judging by what I've heard from her progression in the West Facility, she's probably town

Says they would "never clear" Abby based off the nightkill, still I think Abby was more depending on the bus. Otherwise townreads Abby

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:41 pm

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:10 pm So I'll work my way from the wagons to others, within my capability.

Wagons

Overall, I'd favor a falcon lynch over a Lemon or Monroe one. Grouping bias is a factor, cuz I've played and judged falcon down in West, whereas I know less on why the other two are wolfread or didn't catch all the details from others' cases.

Between Lemon and Monroe, I'd place Monroe within question marks, both in regards to why they've become a D3 wagon and what they've done in response.

So, falcon > Monroe > Lemon

falcon

West - pyxxy connection: none that could have been established, because they interacted with / mentioned each other a total of zero times
West D1-D2 judgement: ended D2 with a low opinion on him and down on my would-vote list; excluding pyxxy connections I considered (Porscha, Delta), he was the lowest ranked de facto. West gameplay resembled current gameplay: brief intervals of engagement, much of which was spent prodding others (with a degree of randomness, never focused) or reactive-toned defending when voted/wagoned
D3 judgement:
-- pretty much the same, tone and grasp of play have not improved.
-- noted him hitting back in rebuttal form at most of his wagoners (Sloonei's characterisations, calling MRadishes opportunistic, bark back at nutella), plus placing three others (leetic, sig, Abigail) within wolf pairings with no reasoning. so pretty much a kind of "you're all bad" howl.
-- parked defense into two main ideas: that the Western nightkills are a frame and that he is towning like mad and we fail to see it. Former boils down to wifom, as leetic also said; latter is not something I can agree with, based on what I've judged. I've read or remember no strong meta read from others on this gameplay, as it stands, being town!falcon indicative
-- meanwhile, withheld to offer townreads (apart from not wanting to vote LC and Epignosis).
-- of his votes, Abigail and Monroe were/are without discernible cause. Monroe isn't even the counterwagon to self-pres on, at the moment

Monroe
D3 judgement: only 3 posts, of which their essence is an aggro response and vote on Epignosis (for their vote / case on them); other reads (Delta ping, wouldn't wagon Lemon) all vague. It doesn't look great, of course, to drop and omgus upon the very first interaction with a player from the other group. But also not the deepest material to make a solid case out of. Hence the question mark status.

Lemon
D3 judgement: I'd structure 3 phases, thus far, of activity.
-- first phase (posts 1-3) in which she mentioned postponing activity and also a statement on the merger being a sensible disorienting moment. I think some wagoned her starting for as little as this and, without proper context if this would classify as a pattern from wolf!lemon (that I can remember), I felt it was undeserved.
-- second phase (pre legacy post), with a first wave of rebuttals (at nutella and Windward). something about wanting to sit more on it. at worst, could display nerviness in face of pressure.
-- third phase (the legacy post): quite a shift from small bites to extensive reads. rebuttal-wise, argues more than the cases on her are not solid or convincing, then also tiers the wagoners based on individual performance. if this alone (or more of this throughout D3), without suss pressure, would have been Lemon's activity, I'd probably read it well. given suss and wagon pressure, I am missing meta info on whether Lemon would as to go steroids, from feeble to opinionated, as wolf. also, a bit funny to have labeled it as "legacy", as if the lynch is a done deal.

tldr: falcon suss (with no prevailing meta info that he towns this way), Monroe who knows (startled by bad form, but tis all so far), lemon no real ping on her elaborate reply

Falcon hasn't shared any townreads?
@falcon45ca is this true?

And actually, the way Lemon said she expires D3/D4 made it sound more like she might die from a mechanical effect and not just because she might get lunched. I could be reading into it too much, though, and I know she can't confirm or deny it.

Asks falcon to respond to one of Ricochet's arguments. Otherwise, stays parked on falcon

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:36 pm Ctrl+Fing "Delta" in falcon's ISO gives 45 results... Of which like 90% of them are from one of Epi's quoted posts. falcon asked Delta for reads D1, asked for the case on them D2, seemingly agrees with Epi's case that Delta was partnered with pyxxy, and pushed them once over it. At least you can't say that falcon never interacted with Delta

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:32 pm Going to try to finish up what I did yesterday but I'm not in the mood to go in as much detail for the explanations.

Cape - Generally vibed with reads. Feels like they have been reading my posts. Similar to town Cape I've seen in the past.
Sabi - Never really vibed with Sabi's reads. Didn't pay much attention to them either. Skimmed through ISO and think they could be wolf. I did think their post about thread being boring and hoping someone will stir the pot was kind of towny but it's not something solid I can lean on.
Master Radishes - Hmmm Radishes is actually OK. Next.
DrWilgy - Wilgy's ISO is not as bad as I thought it would be TBH. The frog noises tickled me. This is more of a tone read though.
DarlingMonroe - Not a lot of reads. Not feeling the tone either. Could be wolf.

Would probably order like so:
Cape
Master Radishes
Sabi
DrWilgy
Darling Monroe

If I added everyone else:
Cape
Windward
nutella

Dyslexicon
Master Radishes
DrWilgy

Nanook
Sabi
Darling Monroe

IDK how I feel about this but it is what it is.

Lemonfairy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:46 pm Quick ISOs. This list is alphabetical btw.
Delta - Cheerful and cutesy first impression. Posts have mostly neutral/even tone. Will put them at mid now and change later after I've seen everyone. Could be scum.
Epignosis - Couple of takes. Feels alright.
falcon45ca - Couple of takes. Too many spaces. Feels alright.
leetic - Strong focus on pyxxy wagon and what happened. Feels alright/mid.
Long Con - Likes some posts. Probably first slot I feel OK putting in towns.
☆Princess Abigail☆ - Fighting for wolf pelt means this is probs town Abigail? Can see a few takes from rest of posts. Might be being a bit too generous.
Ricochet - Now that I've seen these wallposts, I've realized how obnoxious mine was. Sorry. ISO feels alright/pretty good.
sig - Not much there. Feels alight/mid.
Sloonei - It's kind of alright. Although the bar is set pretty low at this point. A bit wordy.
TonyStarkPrime - I remember Dyslexicon calling Tony town at least twice (not relevant but thought I'd mention it). After ISOing, feels mid.
Scrappy Doo - Definitely better than whatever Davos is doing. Towny tone. Feels alright.

Ordered list:
Long Con
Ricochet
Princess Abigail

Epignosis
falcon
Sloonei
Scrappy Doo

leetic
Tony
sig

Delta

Something like this.
I skimmed a lot so take it with salt.

Delta wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:40 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:39 pm

Delta wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:35 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:34 pm Delta, why didn't you vote Day 7?

I froze up because I wasnt sure if voting Davos was the right move but thought Windward towntold near EOD so I was stuck kinda. decision paralysis I guess

& it's silly, I shouldnt have, but it caught me because i thought their final posts EOD were townie

Pretty sure you didn't vote in a couple of days before that

I think only other day was 6? And that was because I got caught up talking ab mech & time caught up to me ;_;

Delta wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:35 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:34 pm Delta, why didn't you vote Day 7?

I froze up because I wasnt sure if voting Davos was the right move but thought Windward towntold near EOD so I was stuck kinda. decision paralysis I guess

& it's silly, I shouldnt have, but it caught me because i thought their final posts EOD were townie

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:13 pm Wait, why do you say unfalsifiable?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 7:06 pm I *still* think Davos's vote didn't count, regardless of what the OP says about ties
You can get on my case for it, it's fine, but I don't believe that was randomized