The Syndicate

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:26 pm Why are there votes on all the standarx potential day 1 mischops except Abigail? Therefore I conclude

Can you define what you mean by "standarx(sic) potential day 1 mischops"?

Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:24 pm i think tsp is town now for reasons that are not related to how other people are reading him. i also think mac is town.

Elaborate on both of these please.

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:20 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:19 pm [VOTE: Abigail] aubergine serious read
Do elaborate.

Wow, that formatting is broken. FIFY

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:19 pm [VOTE: Abigail[/unvote] serious read] aubergine

[VOTE:

Do elaborate.] aubergine

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:17 pm I do find the tedxtr wagon a bit weird, none of the three voters on the wagon are particularly inspiring. Can someone reiterate the case against them?

Well, pyxxy is the only voter who might have a "case", as RDB seems to be simple OMGUS and Bereft just seems to be roleplaying. It is a little concerning that a wagon with so little substance is ahead however.

I do find the tedxtr wagon a bit weird, none of the three voters on the wagon are particularly inspiring. Can someone reiterate the case against them?

Also, Abby seems to be the only player who isn't voting anyone. They never struck me as the kind of player to be particularly prudent with where they're voting, so this does strike me as a little odd.

[VOTE: RDB] aubergine stands out as the person with the least reason to townread them (besides the supposedly "self resolving" Bereft). Looking at their ISO, it's just a bunch of "notice me MacDougall" and a OMGUS vote with no further elaboration.

Although I should note that I probably won't be here at EoD, or if I am, it'll be sparingly. I'll be hanging out with a friend, and there's a game I'm hosting that I'll need to update at the same time (fortunately that should be the last update for that game). Thus, I'd like to get at least some stuff accomplished now.

Sure, every player is self-resolving. We just have to wait for a wolf sweep and then we'll know everyone's alignments!

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:42 pm I hate that I feel like one of the players generating lots of discussion or at least contributing to solving must be a wolf
I don't think someone actively contributing HAS to be a wolf every single time
I just have an unsettling feeling that this is the case, with no grounds to back that take
And no, it's not me.

What makes you feel that? If you have no leads, why post that?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:30 pm Mac Towned gira and it’s day one so I’ll be looking to move

What's your read on Mac?

pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:28 pm [VOTE: ted] aubergine btw

Why?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:06 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:05 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:53 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:36 pm I've caught up and retained almost nothing I read this is bad

But I'm starting to think Dyslexicon might actually be town lol
I don't buy that Dyslexicon is incapable of making that long post as mafia. It was perhaps slightly towny, so I buy you placing too much emphasis on it though.
Can you elaborate on what you found "slightly towny"?
Effort level. The Gira read was okay. Their treatment of you lacked agenda.

If you find that post "slightly towny", why are you still voting for Dyslexicon?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:53 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:36 pm I've caught up and retained almost nothing I read this is bad

But I'm starting to think Dyslexicon might actually be town lol
I don't buy that Dyslexicon is incapable of making that long post as mafia. It was perhaps slightly towny, so I buy you placing too much emphasis on it though.

Can you elaborate on what you found "slightly towny"?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:46 pm I should probably objectively be near lock town. Very few people will make this read, while many can.

Leetic and Gira are town. And that is basically all I have.

Anyway. I'll give at least something to chew and spit.

Why are you voting robyn right now? Also, why does your attitude towards me seem to differ from last game?

pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:45 pm im gonna need a bigger pocket

Nice try there buddy.

I guess with pyxxy, the one thing I noticed is that they acted like a suckup to me D1 of the previous game where they were a wolf but don't seem to be doing that here. Again, they may have learned from last time, but it's the one towny thing going for them.

Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:32 pm i'm going to just assume at least some of the townreads on tsp are tmi on his alignment and take him as town because usually when someone is getting defended and i don't really see it that's what's going on. i just don't know who is doing it as of right now

Of the people who townread them are there any that stand out?

Dyslexicon's total ignoring of me is suspicious. Yes, they were never the biggest fan of me, but they tried to engage at least a little in the two games. Hell, they even seemed to be turning around on me in the last game, so what gives? It feels more like a wolf Dyslexicon knowing that they'd look bad in any extended interaction with me.

If they're not gonna post anything substantial, Bereft is effectively a dead slot to me. Going after dead slots is usually a waste of time, but they're not a bad idea for Vig shots.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:17 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:09 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:59 pm It doesn't mean that your intent in doing it cannot be read into.
Also, I've stated my intentions here multiple times. Yes, a wolf can lie, but I don't know why a wolf would be so open here.
I know you've stated that it's part of your approach to mafia but you said that to someone who wasn't me and instead of treating me with the respect of just giving me fair and straight answers you've been even more hostile to me than you were to the others and taking the interaction seemingly offensively so I've not even had a chance yet to actually engage with you on that subject as I've had to continuously back and forth with you to respond to the questions you've been asking.

For someone whose stated goal is to force content to generate interactions its quite ... dumb ... yes dumb is the word I'll use ... how poorly you handle others doing it to you.

If a "case" on me is lame, I'm not gonna pretend otherwise. I don't expect all the people I push to be nice to me, in fact if they were overly nice I'd see that as a red flag.

Bereft wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:15 pm I explore the rest of the storage room. It's disorienting.

There's a cigarette in a corner, I like it, too bad I quit smoking many years ago to enjoy it now.
Next to it there's a bath ducky, I like it too, but, ... I feel like someone wants me to hate this ducky. It feels wrong.

I want to stop rummaging.

Will you stop roleplaying, or if you insist on continuing, at least try to post game-relevant thoughts? Are you under a post restriction or something?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:14 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:12 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:11 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:09 pm leetic just said that my cpl paragraph post is "a whole lot of nothing to try to make up a reason why I could be a wolf". I invite people to read it and tell me if they agree.
Have you ever played with Leetic?
why vote robyn over ranmilia?
I don't have an answer for this yet.

Then what's with your vote?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:59 pm It doesn't mean that your intent in doing it cannot be read into.

Also, I've stated my intentions here multiple times. Yes, a wolf can lie, but I don't know why a wolf would be so open here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:59 pm Happy to be corrected if they criticised you first because if they did that unprompted then it would go a long way to explaining why you seemingly have your nose out of joint.

Windward criticized my GTH reads before my push on them. Not gonna really respond to the rest because it's a whole lot of nothing to try to make up a reason why I could be a wolf; you could have made your point in two sentences, not four paragraphs.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:49 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:43 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:37 pm i guess if i were to voice my leetic problems, it feels like he keeps asking these questions but he doesn't build on top of them at all

like his solving is disconnected from his questions
I get that a lot, but the point of pushing in the early game is to generate interactions that I can look back on to read later. My more analytical play comes later in the game after we have some flips. I'll ask you a question: What are your thoughts on the two biggest wagons right now, Dyslexicon and robyn?
so you're saying that you post completely random stuff just to get reactions? like you don't even internalize the responses?

I obviously do, as the responses help advance my reads. Wolves are going to react differently than town, after all. But harder analysis beyond "this user's reaction feels natural/contrived" is something I don't do too often at D1, or if I do, it's late in the phase

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:46 pm I'm not curious as to why you're pushing people I'm curious as to why the tone in doing so is so needlessly hostile. My view is that players like Ran and Wind are doing the most typical and reasonable "general purpose" solving of the game and you entered it like a tornado targeting exactly them. Going as far as to say their solving specifically was bad. From my perspective this could have and maybe did have the effect of discouraging the players I feel are the most towny from doing the things most towny. Instead of taking issue with players like Bereft and Dizzy for instance who are doing entirely not towny things you came in complaining about the quality of play being displayed by those displaying quality play?

A lot of this feels like CWAC and bad faith itself. I'm allowed to criticize the Windward and Ranmilla's posts, especially when they come in criticizing me! What exact standard are you calling their play "quality" and mine not? Further, if it is truly as "quality" as you say they are, shouldn't they be able to defend themselves easily? A push from an idiot shouldn't stop an actually good player from contributing! Overall, this reads as "rules for thee, but not for me" and a lame attempt at shading-without-actually-shading.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:45 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:43 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:37 pm i guess if i were to voice my leetic problems, it feels like he keeps asking these questions but he doesn't build on top of them at all

like his solving is disconnected from his questions
I get that a lot, but the point of pushing in the early game is to generate interactions that I can look back on to read later. My more analytical play comes later in the game after we have some flips. I'll ask you a question: What are your thoughts on the two biggest wagons right now, Dyslexicon and robyn?
i've already talked about robyn

and dizzy it's too early to say and too little content to sort anything. i kinda dont like he hopped on robyn from a ranmilia push. it feels like the equivalent of swapping from voting a 500 poster to the 0 poster, and ik it's a wild analysis since robyn has more posts, but the point is that a ranmilia wolf read requires depth of thought, and one for robyn doesn't

If Dyslexicon is a wolf, how do you think that would reflect on Ranmilla's alignment?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:37 pm i guess if i were to voice my leetic problems, it feels like he keeps asking these questions but he doesn't build on top of them at all

like his solving is disconnected from his questions

I get that a lot, but the point of pushing in the early game is to generate interactions that I can look back on to read later. My more analytical play comes later in the game after we have some flips. I'll ask you a question: What are your thoughts on the two biggest wagons right now, Dyslexicon and robyn?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:38 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:36 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:31 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:26 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:52 am leetic +: very active. aggrobots are >rand town. spouting a lot of mech nonsense.
leetic -: absolutely dive bombed thread health and town morale/cohesion. aggrobots can also be wolf. people spouting mech nonsense can very easily be wolf. their conclusions/readlist when asked were surprisingly weak for how forward they've played, tons of hedging, no real substantial reads at all besides joining me on the dizzy vote, their actual push targets have all sucked, projecting a defensive aura of "don't interact with me" in a way I often see from aggro mafia.
I do find it funny you're calling me out for supposedly hedging when nearly every "read" in that wallpost is a hedge. Plus, thanks for giving me another reason to call "thread health" a stupid concept
Thread health isn't a stupid concept but context is key.

The game is easier for mafia to navigate when townies are uncharitable to one another. But if the game is in a "healthy" threadstate and mafia are well ahead then uglifying it is sometimes a good idea.

At gamestart not really at all.

I'm not saying it's scummy for you but I don't quite follow why you entered the game this way and have seemingly maintained it though. I don't think that the reality of the solving quality of posts lines up with your appraisal of them.
It's easier to navigate for wolves when nobody is pushing anyone. Wolves thrive on predictability and hedginess, you have to actually push them to get anything meaningful done. What exactly are you doing to push the game forward?
I am presently trying to work out your alignment while allowing Robyn to bury themselves by simply existing. I'm also figuring out my base readslist and am currently trying to slot Pyxxy and you into the list I created earlier. I read your ISO to do so and noticed you had a lot of negative interactions with my townies.

How am I supposed to determine if someone is town if I don't push them?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:31 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:26 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:52 am leetic +: very active. aggrobots are >rand town. spouting a lot of mech nonsense.
leetic -: absolutely dive bombed thread health and town morale/cohesion. aggrobots can also be wolf. people spouting mech nonsense can very easily be wolf. their conclusions/readlist when asked were surprisingly weak for how forward they've played, tons of hedging, no real substantial reads at all besides joining me on the dizzy vote, their actual push targets have all sucked, projecting a defensive aura of "don't interact with me" in a way I often see from aggro mafia.
I do find it funny you're calling me out for supposedly hedging when nearly every "read" in that wallpost is a hedge. Plus, thanks for giving me another reason to call "thread health" a stupid concept
Thread health isn't a stupid concept but context is key.

The game is easier for mafia to navigate when townies are uncharitable to one another. But if the game is in a "healthy" threadstate and mafia are well ahead then uglifying it is sometimes a good idea.

At gamestart not really at all.

I'm not saying it's scummy for you but I don't quite follow why you entered the game this way and have seemingly maintained it though. I don't think that the reality of the solving quality of posts lines up with your appraisal of them.

It's easier to navigate for wolves when nobody is pushing anyone. Wolves thrive on predictability and hedginess, you have to actually push them to get anything meaningful done. What exactly are you doing to push the game forward?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:27 pm @leetic I have mixed feelings about you. Your aggression and WIM seem there but you aren't being very charitable to anyone and the way you entered the game and immediately started engaging people was quite antagonistic and it doesn't seem like it's coming from a rational place. Why are you so aggressive in this game?

Because you don't catch wolves by sitting on your ass

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:52 am leetic +: very active. aggrobots are >rand town. spouting a lot of mech nonsense.
leetic -: absolutely dive bombed thread health and town morale/cohesion. aggrobots can also be wolf. people spouting mech nonsense can very easily be wolf. their conclusions/readlist when asked were surprisingly weak for how forward they've played, tons of hedging, no real substantial reads at all besides joining me on the dizzy vote, their actual push targets have all sucked, projecting a defensive aura of "don't interact with me" in a way I often see from aggro mafia.

I do find it funny you're calling me out for supposedly hedging when nearly every "read" in that wallpost is a hedge. Plus, thanks for giving me another reason to call "thread health" a stupid concept

You know what, [VOTE: pyxxy] aubergine. If all you're gonna do is spam, then there is nothing more to discuss here.

Also stop quoting that crap, you're making this page unreadable

@pyxxy Just don't. Some sites would infract that for spamming.

Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:43 am by all accounts dizzy is an excellent and highly motivated player of the mafia alignment, so i don't particularly think him being "flaccid" is a valid scumtell. I struggle to believe he chooses to start a game off by lowposting and taking potshots at one player as mafia. I have, on the other hand, seen him get miskilled for being "underwhelming".

That's not really a helpful tell. In a game I hosted, wolf JJJ was very active and vocal. That made it hard for me to believe that he was a wolf in a later game I played because his play there was much lamer than in that previous wolfgame, but it still turned out to be true. Alignment isn't always a good indicator of how much effort a player will put in.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:40 am leetic, how much have you played with others in this game previously, and how much weight do you give to meta interactions?

I'm actually familiar with a decent amount of people here, but I am well used to playing in games where I am familiar with nobody. Meta can be helpful when you're going off of your own experiences, but not when going off someone else's, and I hold to the fact that it's not necessary to solve the game. I think tedxtr has said that my play here is much different from my wolf play years ago, but I don't think that's too helpful given how much I've grown as a player since then, not to mention how long it's been since I've randed wolf (I've randed ITP twice since my last wolf rand) so even I am not sure how I would play as a wolf if I randed as one

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:30 am https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... -Season-10
leetic (and others) please at least skim over this game, like a third of this game's playerlist was in it and it will help you understand the dynamics going on here a lot better.

I don't give a shit. I wasn't there to experience the game, thus I will only get a biased view from it, plus I am not going to spend hours reading a game that can be used to solve this one. If there are one or two posts worth reading there feel free to post them here but I am not digging through all that.

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:30 am
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:26 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:20 am actually leetic what are your reads, overall?
Dropped my GTH reads already. For now I am interested in pushing people and seeing where they develop. Dyslexicon looks worst, and I'm not really a fan of pyxxy either. Windward looks better than at the beginning of the game but not off the hook yet. I'm still getting a lukewarm feeling from most of your posts. Abby is Abby, but lean town due to her treatment of me vs. the last game. tedxtr is mostly just there, but I do like that a few of their posts have been seemingly trying to solve. TSP is also just there but with less good-looking posts. robyn has been dense and I don't really give a rat's ass about their previous game but their reactions at least seem natural. And I guess there's Gira, who had a decent early game but just seems blendy recently. If there's anyone I'm missing they just haven't stood out to me at all in the grand scheme of the game.
ran hasn’t stood out to you?

Read the part that is written in second person

Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:29 am
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:27 am
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:20 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:34 pm I stared at the list and decided Gira was the most likely wolf
oh word?
Hey, why are TSP, Robyn and me voting you?
[VOTE: Rondo] aubergine

OMGUS, or is there more to this vote?

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:20 am actually leetic what are your reads, overall?

Dropped my GTH reads already. For now I am interested in pushing people and seeing where they develop. Dyslexicon looks worst, and I'm not really a fan of pyxxy either. Windward looks better than at the beginning of the game but not off the hook yet. I'm still getting a lukewarm feeling from most of your posts. Abby is Abby, but lean town due to her treatment of me vs. the last game. tedxtr is mostly just there, but I do like that a few of their posts have been seemingly trying to solve. TSP is also just there but with less good-looking posts. robyn has been dense and I don't really give a rat's ass about their previous game but their reactions at least seem natural. And I guess there's Gira, who had a decent early game but just seems blendy recently. If there's anyone I'm missing they just haven't stood out to me at all in the grand scheme of the game.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:19 am
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:09 am Not really a fan of people who have more interactions with inactives than people actually playing the game. They turn out to be wolves a surprising amount of time.
Kinda weird thing to drop at random. Who are you thinking of in these terms?

Mainly our newly arrived one who thinks that talking at length about the one person who hasn't showed is the best use of their time

robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:14 am
leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:09 am Not really a fan of people who have more interactions with inactives than people actually playing the game. They turn out to be wolves a surprising amount of time.
what’s ur read on me u twink

Why are you asking yourself that question?

Bereft wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:04 am In the gray light of the refridgerator I spot a bottle of Tabasco sauce. I already know what I'm having for dinner tonight. ~ Bereft

Also, if you're not gonna take this seriously then why should I take you seriously?

Not really a fan of people who have more interactions with inactives than people actually playing the game. They turn out to be wolves a surprising amount of time.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:09 pm When logged in, the site lists 7 registered, 2 hidden and 85 guests online. On incognito, it lists 7 registered, 2 hidden and 85 guests. If the site is truly hiding the online status of users in the second thread, these numbers would be different, yet they're the same.

Arguing otherwise is basically arguing for a weird asymmetry where the users in the second thread can see us, but we can't see them. That seems incredibly unlikely.

When logged in, the site lists 7 registered, 2 hidden and 85 guests online. On incognito, it lists 7 registered, 2 hidden and 85 guests. If the site is truly hiding the online status of users in the second thread, these numbers would be different, yet they're the same.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:04 pm Like I was really ready to say that Leetic was just trying to fake a derp or something but I’m sorta freaked out now

Elaborate.

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