The Syndicate

I thought I saw something that made me think she could be a civ fairly early in the game. And Rox can be touchy, good or bad, so if she is bitching at someone, it does not necessarily make her bad. When she is bad, it feels a bit meaner; theres a bit of venom she does not have when civ. All i saw before today was indignant, not venom. I have to reread today, I just walked in the door, and I have to finish rereading MM as well.

Also that was supposed to be

and NOT

I always read that wink as condescending as that was not what I was trying to convey

What are your thoughts on MM, Ricochet? Made? Your current thoughts

Don't be hurt, it is not intended that way; quite the opposite. I am totally impressed by you, and am enjoying repartee with you immensely; even if I am correct and you do have BTS help, you are still playing an awesome game. And it is not simply the way you say things, it's is what you say, too.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Roxy. Her vote of AP on Day 1.2 was a complete turnaround from her previous stance.

Roxy wrote:I need to vote now bc my youngest son Nic is here and we are gonna watch Pulp Fiction -
My strongest ping so far is Made but no one seems too bothered by him I am voting AP I think the points are valid and between his vote, timing and lack of anything since the last vote is bewildering even for AP.
Not only this, but she made a big deal about her play style on Day 3. She made some specific comments about it that I found uncivvie-like. She was addressing questions that were never asked. But another point from those comments is this post.

Roxy wrote:What other reason have you given to find me suspicious except my votes?

You seem even more suspicious to me bc suddenly you are willing to conform and vote for vomps - someone you said was prob not bad but ofc today you see suspicion from Vomps lol. You voted others before this lynch - why, suddenly this lynch do you feel the need to conform and vote Vomps?
So on Day 1, Roxy votes AP rather than Made because no one else is interested in voting for Made. But then she accused me of 'conforming' with my vote on Day 3, after she had already done so before.

On top of that, there are the no-u reactions to my suspicions.

Others I am looking at, Bass, LC, and SVS.

Personally, I dislike your suspicions as well (although I have no opinion on Bass yet, his blendiness is level regardless of alliliation), and am potentially going to vote you today.

I got the impression that she was annoyed at people for telling her how to play when she made the points about conforming. And she did not vote for AP solely becasue other people were doing so; she also was suspicious of him, as it clearly states in the post. Your posts the entire game are this kind of thing; misinterpreting and extrapolating out of context.

And since you don't elaborate here, can you tell us what these "un-civvie like" remarks are?

Turnip Head wrote:
timmer wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:BUT if I vote MP and one of the other two is lynched and flips bad, my vote will (quite reasonably) be deemed opportunistic, so I have to consider that risk when casting my vote as well...

Linki how hard MM what
Voting for MP and one of AP/Vomps flips bad, sure, your vote could look baddie. But you know what else looks baddie? Waiting until AP is at 5 votes, and putting your vote on MP *then*, with the second to last vote, once the lynch seems secured. And that's what you did.
You know what, I always vote at the tail end of every lynch in every game, and in every game it gets me extra eyeballs. Those last few votes can be so scrutinized and over analyzed because you can read anything you want into them. I didn't know that my vote would be second to last, nor could I know that the "lynch seems secured" as you put it. I could not have known that ~6ish players wouldn't vote after me. You're acting like AP's lynch is MY fault because I voted MP.

Roxy wrote:I cannot believe no one has one word to say about Made. I mean his play style is so unlike Python and so reminiscence of his baddie game.
I've mentioned him before, but he hasn't even been around to talk about his Day 1.2 vote,, I don't think he's posted since then. I'm suspicious of him but that suspicion has plateaued until we get some more content.

I asked everyone's opinions on MP and only got responses from Dom and Timmer. Does that mean people don't want to talk about MP?

Here's my short list of who I'm most likely to vote today, in order of most concerned about to least concerned about:

MovingPictures
Made
Vompatti
SVS

I don't really see myself voting for anyone other than these 4, and I'm most likely voting MP again unless something big happens.

This is your last real post where you discuss Made; you mention him several times after this in context of wanting to vote him, and asking others opinions about him, but not really adding anything. He has said quite a bit since this post; have your thoughts jelled any further? I read back through all your posts, but did not really find much else of substance on Made.

Also re Metalmarsh & Ricochet, any thoughts?

Turnip Head wrote:I'd like to hear her answers to all the questions raised to her, but I'm inclined to agree with you, MP, she's reading like cornered baddie SVS to me right now.

Personally I thought I was reading as "uninvolved becasue I did not have BTS partners to warm me I was in trouble SVS" but that's just me. Do you still feel this way?

thellama73 wrote:I think SVS is acting weird and suspicious, but the number of people who have jumped on that is making me nervous. I also, like MP, acknowledge that I am bad at reading her. Does anyone agree with my "if Vompatti is bad, SVS likely saved shim, so let's lynch Vompatti first and see" logic?

On a tangent, I ran into this on my reread of TH looking for his position on Made, and it is posts like this that make me less likely to think llama is bad. He is showing reasonable doubt & restraint.

As for Ricochet, I have suspected him like the entire game since we had that early AM discussion about the "Big Case". I try to draw him out whenever I see him in thread with me. For various reasons, he cannot be part of two of the three potential civ BTS pairs. Vompatti was Truffault, and even if AP had found David Lean using Math by Day Two, I don't think there would have been much time for giving Ricochet tips. I have someone else in mind for Tarantino/Rodriguez. So as I am convinced that he has BTS, and that leaves baddies imo. But i could be wrong and he could just be mega astute, which is why I have kept him talking rather than just started pushing for him.

I did not get the chance to actually reread Made yet, since I reread TH instead. I will get to that later & do a summary of all three of the people I suspect, although the rereading I have done has clarified quite a bit for me.

What does your 4th tentacle do? Do i even want to know? o.O

No, I thought I was being the problem; you are like the third person this game, when i ask their opinion on something, instead of stating it, say that they already stated it.

I like to have people say their opinion several times. While it makes differences/changes easier to spot, having someone repeat themselves accurately makes me feel better about them.

Why does everyone keep doing this? Am I being rude by asking people to say what they think now? People keep telling me to go find their prior posts.

And perhaps you are right. Note you are not on my short list, but i appear to be on yours.

TH, what is your opinion on MM, Made & Ricochet?

TH, I don't agree with you at all. I don't think BWT is worth discussing for a vote ever; it has nothing to do with him being off the poll.

I was not discussing him. I was discussing the people who WERE discussing him. And that is what I thought you were trying to shut down.

Turnip Head wrote:I feel the thread is being pulled in a few different directions and am unsure who to trust until we get a baddie and we can more fruitfully examine voting records. I think it's possible the baddies wanted us to lynch Vomps and actively helped us do that; I also think it's possible the baddies had nothing at all to do with it and just let nature take its course.

I still find myself suspicious of SVS. Her last post might have really pinged me depending on what she meant, so I await her clarification.

I still think something is up with Made as well. I feel he stands out as a player who jumped hard onto Llama's case against Vomp with no questions asked.

And why is that? What did you think I could have meant that was bad? It sincerely felt to me like you were intentionally pulling the thread away from discussing potential baddie reactions to BWTs survival. That, to me, is relevant discussion fodder for a lynch. So you coming in here and trying to squash that topic pinged the crap out of me, I must say. It felt like you were swooping in and rescuing people, tbh. Look, up in the sky! A flying Turnip!!

The people I am looking at today are Metalmarsh, Ricochet & Made. I felt that all of them kind of hopped on Llamas coattails. I am not necessarily seeing bad Llama, I am seeing typical Llama. I tend to view normal Llama as bad, but alot of that is due to our playstyles being so radically different. But I intend to reread them tonight and tomorrow AM.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Dom, to answer your questions:

1) I asked because I've seen a similar thing happen before due to a host's error. So I wanted to know if it was that or if I had been rezzed.

2) I never got that impression. I was NKed, and then a few posts later, the hostess says I was rezzed. I have absolutely no idea what happened. My best guess is that someone rezzed me.

Linki: SVS, who do you think had a lack of reaction to my death?

Sorry unclear phone post. When I said "death or lack thereof" I meant lack of death, not lack of reaction. I will read again and pull quotes when home.

Linki, because you seemed to be coming in and trying to turn discussion and redirect the discussion a different way. Plus harder to pull multiquotes at work on phone.

thellama73 wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Roxy, my point about BWT was that he's the closest thing we have to a confirmed civ, and he isn't even on the poll, so we shouldn't keep discussing him when we have to talk about somebody to lynch. SVS came in with a semi-snarky comment about me stifling discussion. Llama's comment about it seemed tongue in cheek, but SVS seemed serious.

SVS hates stifling discussion. I have extensive personal experience with this.

TH, I am thinking about the lynch. I was not talking about BWT, I am talking about the reaction some people had to his death, or lack thereof. I have no interest in lynching BWT, so his presence on the poll is irrelevant to me.

I think that is a valid path of exploration:shrug:

Gotcha, TH.

But no calling me a baddie when I pop in here in the middle of a discussion you are having and tell you to stop talking about whatever it is you are discussing., k?

We only discuss people on the poll, TH?

Linki, do you think he should be on the poll?

And how would you get that interpretation from my question?

Ricochet wrote:I've answered that earlier.

And wait, are you saying BWT rezzed himself? How?

No I am not. I have no idea, I was trying to determine what others meant, and whether I believed them I saw your answer. I was seeking clarification.

So we have people implying that BWT must have come back from the Pet Sematary it would appear.

Do I have that right, Made? Was that the point of that question? And the intent behind the suspicious smiley face, Ricochet?

Ricochet wrote:Awesome, BWT! Very phoenix-like, already. The odd night baddies are having a nightmare of a game, so far.

Dom wrote:hmmmm

If FZ. were still with us, I think she would say that this sounds kinda sour grapey of you.

Today I plan to look at people who used Llamas Vomp suspicion to push secondary Vomp based suspicions.

Gung Ho was pretty good, I must say.

I met Michael Keaton in a bar in Montana in the 90's. He was a professional drunk (you know how you can tell that sometimes? If someone is a srs drunk, as opposed to a garden variety weekend drunk? That was him). He looked like a pro too. I hope he got his act together, the way he was going his liver was on its' way out

George Cukor isn't an insanifier, though. And I think it obvious that people are being silenced and votes are being blocked. We can't say for sure If an inactive is any specific civ role (and why would we want to?) as it is possible they were NKed too.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Note: SVS, Canuck, and LC have each refused to explain why they either didn't vote or post the last two days when they were asked.

Do you think all people who are night targeted should announce it in the thread? I don't.

I am also looking forward to learning how to type.

I don't know that I think he is bad, but I would not be surprised to find that some of those who followed in his footsteps are.

I a looking forward to hearing Llama take on things after he rethinks things.

Insanification is supposed to make someone impossible/difficult to understand. Some posting effects are more of a challenge for the poster than the other players, this would be one of those, IMO. It's just a fun, flavor thing. But also a chance for a civ to get some ideas into the thread without the filter of how other players perceive him/her.

Almodovar targets 2 people. I think there are various ways to interpret his direction. Although i would guess he targets based on who he suspects, I think that sometimes being removed from the fray can be a blessing

I agree re Lizzy & Sabie, I doubt that they were targeted by a vote supressor. Daisy has said she was afk, and Vomps, well, perhaps Vomps did not see the point, eh?

And I would like to Thank Ingmar Bergman for seeing which way the wind was blowing, and knowing it was an ill wind

Has anyone had to speak in Romantic Comedies? I might not notice it if they did.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Another things I saw. Roxy asked SVS the same question 4 times before SVS finally answered.

1) Here
2) Here
3) Here
4) Here

SVS has never mentioned Roxy (game-related) outside of answering that question.

Also, SVS might possibly be silenced today? Along with being removed from the lynch poll.

SVS missed that question. And SVS had no reason to mention Roxy. She still does not outside of this question, having read your concerns on her. I don't like to discuss people I don't distrust.

Is that a problem for you?

Looking forward to the non-Vomp saving related case on me

thellama73 wrote:It is interesting to me that SVS, Vompatti, sabie, lizzy, TH, and Spacedaisy didn't vote.

Personally, I don't find it all that interesting

I don't plan to discuss it at all.

Bye Vomps, sorry to see you go.

thellama73 wrote:So you're refusing to say whether you were silenced or not, is that correct, Canuck?

It used to be, old school, that you did not discuss thing like whether or not you had been targeted in the thread. Some hosts won't allow it. Sometimes people are reticent to do so.

And thanks, FZ. ~ imagine that, someone even more suspicious than me

Ricochet wrote:In reply to BWT's post:

I find your read on what happened interesting, but I can't figure out where you draw the line between me making rookie mistakes and slipping as a baddie. I also don't see how all the issues are connected, the way you put it.

You say you agree SVS was quite "reaction-y" (as Blooper put it) and that it looked like she was baiting me with the "chatroom" idea, but at the same time you still feel like I did "pull up a chatroom topic". Frankly, I don't know how else to comment to this accusation anymore. The conversation was in the thread. It happened throughout a full phase. All I said was I'll catchup/look more into it. SVS happened to be there when I said it and it made her jumpy. From there on, (mis)interpretation galore.

Re: referencing / backing up, I'll say this again. On Day 1, when I snipped a post of hers to address only a part of it, she was kind to advise me not to do that, because it'll look bad. Now that I, just as ill-advisedly, delayed backing my post up and/or referenced pages instead of quoting, oh that won't do. It's understandable, given the circumstance, that her reaction wasn't as nice and it looked bad to her, but I don't see why that should make other players see more than a mistake in this.

The most stunning accusation for me is still regarding my correction re: Canuck's gender. It was literally an EBWOP. I screwed up her gender the whole time, in that discussion with Llama and MM, before realizing. When several people were "he/she" about me during the first day, I politely addressed the issue. When I screwed up a player's gender that I didn't know well (i.e. I didn't know at all outside Mafia, as is the case with about half of the players in this game), I politely corrected myself. If I wouldn't have noticed and, say, Canuck would have later corrected me, perhaps everything would have been fine. But since I did (and on the spot, too!), I'm suspicious for it - or better yet, I received "tips". Again, I don't have much else to say about this, other than how slightly disquieted I am with players picking on trivial stuff like this.

---

This will probably be my only entry for tonight, since my girl will soon come home and we'll watch Birdman, which I'm dying to see and, again, the end of the phase will be too late for me to stay up for.

BTW, you said you missed voting yesterday. Was that purely because of RL or because of a certain civ's powers?

"EBWOP"? Several people have used me, me included. Did someone explain what it meant? Or is it common usage at PA?

And @Llama, no worries. I am sorry if i was rude to you as well.

Read it how you like. I would have thrown Vomps under the bus days ago, I have never had BTS with him, but I imagine my hyper over mgmt thing as well as his more laissez faire approach to the game would have been a bad train wreck. I don't do baddie bandwagons ever since I got my whole team trashed in Tranqs GTA game at RM.

First you pretended not to understand the meaning of my AP vote, now as soon as I mention your name, you start screaming that i am after you. Again, I don't think this makes you bad. Mafia is not an Ayn Rand novel.

Between the other thread, and now this, I have no stomach for Mafia today. BBL.

I will vote for Vomps tomorrow if that is the consensus, I am beginning to think that this is just corking the thread.

Linki, my record makes me look stupid & incompetent, not bad. Don't confuse the two.

Linki x2, MM, why do you persist in saying shit like that???

Not necessarily, no. Vote for who you want to, as will I. All I am saying is that the reason I am not voting for Vomp is that I do not understand you or your thoughts on how to do things. So I never trust your motivations. That is not your fault; it is mine.

Talking about lynching nubs on Day One, or people who are obviously silenced, low posters just becasue they are not posting, etc.

You and I are never on the same page, and that is OK. I have come to accept it and I act on it by seldom or never acting on it, if you take my meaning. But I will defend myself against allegations of attempting to save someone that you, and only you, are pushing heavily. I have no opinion on Vomps. I am not trying to save him. I am not voting for him becasue, as I said, I almost never vote for people you suspect becasue I always think you have an agenda. I find that I disagree with your motivations or reasons for suspecting people like 90% of the time or more. Certainly, I am watching Vomps, and will come to my own conclusions.

You seem to be saying that disagreeing with you makes me bad. But we always disagree, which is why i tend to ignore your suspicions since I don't care to get into this very argument.

I am just explaining my lack of interest in a Vomps vote. You go on encouraging low participators by lynching them for participating. I have no intention on getting involved.

Linki, lol, that was not my meaning, nor the color of the lake I had in mind, but OK, if it makes you happy

I am not bringing you up as a suspect now. This is an *always* thing. I almost never bring you up as a suspect either in any game anymore, do I? I think it is more that your philosophy of gameplay is so alien to mine, that I just cannot understand anything you do or say ever.

I can't read you at all, so my opinion is next to worthless.

To clarify, i think Llama makes up cases on people that fit his preconceived notions of baddiness, to be blunt. I almost NEVER vote for Llamas suspects or cases in any game because I seldom agree with Llamas reasons as to why they are bad.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:To recap: MM just asked why a baddie would try to save a teammate. That's how bad it is, people.
Are you going to deny me an answer?
I think this should explain it.
I didn't find an answer there. Rather, I sensed a hint of snark.

Why would SVS try to save vomps on consecutive day phases? What good would it do her?

I wasn't trying to save him, I don't trust llama and I think his case is BS. I have no clue if Vomp is bad or not.

Dom wrote:MP, I am sorry I was wrong about you.

S~V~S wrote:I think I am going to go with MP. He is equivocating and using lots of words without really saying much.
THIS is why you suspected MP?
Really?

Anyway, Maybe I have to reconsider my suspects this game. I was convinced MP was bad.

Really. He seemed to be making a Lt of nothing into something IMO. Is that such a bizarre reason for suspecting someone?

And I think we all have to reevaluate. Last night I felt like everyone was waiting for me to vote, it was very strange.

MP I am really sorry.

I think I am going to go with MP. He is equivocating and using lots of words without really saying much.

I thought he was distracted, TH, not unlike how I was.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:I was feeling that Ricochet was waiting for a tipping point before he voted Vomp, but that was not the case.

I think MM hit the mail on the head about MP.

Linki, which equivocation felt most genuine, TH?
Well since he does live in Nauru, I'm surprised he's even up this late playing

That was kinda my point

Linki

I was feeling that Ricochet was waiting for a tipping point before he voted Vomp, but that was not the case.

I think MM hit the mail on the head about MP.

Linki, which equivocation felt most genuine, TH?

MP, People aren't allowed to have similar opinions without it being "echoing"?

Linki, for who?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I will vote!

Also, what does everyone think of Bass?

Like most people, he's a question mark still.

I plan to vote for sure. I am just trying to decide how I feel about a few things. I keep reading the same posts over & over again. Not sure if I am being blinded by brilliance or baffled by bullshit.

Ricochet, if you don't vote for Vomps based on that 50/50, who will you vote for? Someone you feel more or less than 50/50 on? Is there someone you suspect more than 50/50? What's holding you back? I have like 3 or 4 people, and they are all less than 50%.

Ricochet, i see you are here. What is your take on Vompatti? Sorry if you have already said it.

thellama73 wrote:Oh sure, now people are suspicious of Ricochet. I was doing it before it was cool.

For me it was since yesterday morning when he made that remark about the Big Case. He would post, then leave the site completely, he did not show as being here, then he would come back as soon as I spoke to him, reply, and leave again. Like someone posting from phone, flipping back and forth between sites. But this is a game with civ BTS so I don't want to jump to conclusions when someone new acts like they have BTS.

OK, gotta do some more reading.

Its amazing how you always just pop up when people mention you.

Still not sure, I will be home in about an hour to finish rereading. A few things have caught my eye but I want to reread in context.

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