The Syndicate

I have been saying this for days, Chris.

EBWOP, she would be my second choice for a vote.

Becasue I think she & MM were Made savers. Potentially MP, too. But her vote interests me since I really believe she was not happy to see Snowy back. I am actively interested in how she votes.

I see that Dana has not voted yet. Wonder if she is gonna make it? This is her last post, 7:22 AM Saturday:

Dana wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Dana wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:Welcome back Snowy! What are your thoughts on the last lynch?

Good one.
I think I was surprised. But more thoughts later on how it went down and the reasons for my voting pattern.

Is Snow Dog 2.0 allowed to talk as or give explanations for Snow Dog 1.0? I'm kind of actually really confused about the people replacing that were already previously in the game. Of course they get new roles and such, but they're still the same person with the same play style and all of that. What are the rules for this? As in, what are they allowed to do or say or talk about?

Why should he be restricted?

This post has a "sour grapes" feel to it, IMO. Like you are annoyed that Snowy did not stay dead.

Not at all! I just wanted to make sure everything was alright since this was a new situation I'd never seen before and I was probably overthinking at 5:30 in the morning.

TH- It's currently 7:20am and I'm still awake from yesterday, but I definitely plan to address your post when I wake up in the late morning/afternoon.

So if there's a tie, and one is civ and the other isn't the civ is gonna get lynched. Think about that Metalmarsh~ oh wait, you were THE ultimate Made saver yesterday, weren't you? So if Made's bad, and Enrique isn't, Enrique gets lynched anyhow with a tie. But if you break the tie in either direction, it looks bad for you.

If there's a tie, and a baddie is lynched, they are probably both baddies.

I will be back later to change my vote if need be.

Like I said I don't know if Enriques bad or not. I just really want to address what happened in Snow Dogs lynch more. And now, once again, all we are talking about is what Epi wants to talk about. Hopefully Enrique is bad, and hopefully we have a clear majority.

Dom wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Yeah, his posts on Juliets were convincing, too.

A lot of people agreed with a Snow Dog suspicion too... and Epig... enough to get them lynched. . . does that mean we never vote with that person again?

S~V~S wrote:I think it was pretty obvious that Made was being saved. If not Made, I would prefer to lynch one of the late Snowy voters, MP, Dana or MM. I lean hardest towards Dana, she really sounded kinda pissy that Snowy was back and able to discuss his own lynch. But I could go for MP as well. I do think that is putting the cart before the horse though. But with those extra votes on the civs, I stongly prefer that people try to keep the votes fairly compact. I am willing to compromise to do so, and hope others will as well.

I would like a Made or Enrique lynch?

No, it doesn't mean we never vote with them again. But I don't trust his instincts. This was his first post after the Juliets lynch:

Epignosis wrote:

juliets wrote:After the lynch is over Epi is going to say he is not sorry because, he will say, I did baddie things. Or made mistakes that couldn't be corrected. Keep in mind people make mistakes like posting in the wrong thread all the time - civs and baddies It sure would be nice to know what those baddie things are that I did. Please the rest of you, hound Epi when he says something is so and make him explain himself. This is what happens when you let him get away with thinking things are one way and no one challenges him. Remember if you are civ it could be you next. He and someone else votes for you, people come in the thread who are tired and just take the easy way.

This.

He has literally been gunning for Enrique since Day Zero. I would rather let someone else drive, tbh. His very first post after replacing back in was warning Enrique. I think he has tunnelvision, and i think he is a very convincing writer, and I think he is a true believer. He really really believes everything he says, and that confidence is convincing. I don't feel comfortable trusting him at this time.

But I want to lynch Made most. Which is why I voted for him. But again, i am willing to compromise not to have too much of a vote spread.

I think it was pretty obvious that Made was being saved. If not Made, I would prefer to lynch one of the late Snowy voters, MP, Dana or MM. I lean hardest towards Dana, she really sounded kinda pissy that Snowy was back and able to discuss his own lynch. But I could go for MP as well. I do think that is putting the cart before the horse though. But with those extra votes on the civs, I stongly prefer that people try to keep the votes fairly compact. I am willing to compromise to do so, and hope others will as well.

Lets not forget this gem during the Juliets lynch:

Epignosis wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Those are possibly the bandwagony-est votes I have ever seen.

Isn't it cool?

I vote Enrique and he takes votes.

I vote juliets and she takes votes.

I love my power.

Enrique may be bad, I dunno, but his first post on coming back, Epi says:

Epignosis wrote:Enrique.

Daddy's back.

Other people are bad, not just potentially Enrique. Last time we followed Epi, we lost Juliets 1.0. Not sure I want to go back down that road until we sort out what happened during the last lynch. Epi came back as a new person same as the old person. FIRST post back, threatens Enrique. He has been on Enrique since day zero, with a time out to lynch Juliets.

Yeah, his posts on Juliets were convincing, too.

Snow Dog wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Snowy if you're looking at the game's subforum you can click the little note icon next to the thread title. It's supposed to take you to the first new post but it doesn't always work for me tbh.

Thanks TH. If that works it'll be a boon.

I usually go to my profile page and search my posts for my own last post and read from that point.

And fair enough, TH. You are not the only person to have that read on Daisy so i can backburner it.

But that one is an especially fun one, and it is kinda traditional for us

I don't think zeek needs translating. He needs to stick to short sentences.

And my main concern is keeping the vote tight. With all civs starting with one vote, spreading the vote too much might not be a good thing. We should try to agree on a main lynch candidate, and make sure they have a clear majority . I know I am willing to move my vote if Made does not take a clear lead, but I think we should try to come to a consensus as much as possible.

I have felt either civ or *waffles* about MP up to the last lynch. Not sure I want him to be my first candidate until I know for sure that the Snowy lynch WAS in fact a save.

Linki~ no, JUST STICK TO SHORT SENTENCES & BE REPETITIVE. No paragraphs, That will make you clear enough. When you write whole paragraphs, that is incomprehensible.

Insanified sentences tell us more than defeated smilies, just saying

Is there a baddie role redirect, decoders? Otherwise, the only insanifier is a civ, right?

lol *YOUR affiliation

Because it is what I expect of you, lol. You are the one pushing the faux insanification theory. And the insanity busting. I can get the gist of what he is saying. Not implying anything about our affiliation, just about your love of boundary pushing

And I am willing to look into MP if Made turns up bad. Is Mades save part of the reason you think MP is bad?

And I am gonna vote now, actually. For Made; I think baddie Made has made his first appearance.

Yay for changeable poll

Chris, I think you are just trying to figure out how to beat the insanifier so you have an excuse to lynch an insanified person. A person who was insanified by a civvie. In my experience civvies insanify for lulz, for protection, or to silence a voice they disagree with, but do not particularly suspect.

Turnip Head wrote:Welcome back Snowy!! RIP splintsy

I'm looking at MP, Made and Hedgeowl for my vote today, and I've got my eye on all the Snow Dog voters in general. I also want to see what happens with the suspicion on Enrique, and I plan on rereading MetalMarsh at some point.

SVS, you keep asking me for specifics with Daisy, I know you don't get role hints, I'm not really pointing toward a role hint, just other things I've picked up on that make it seem unlikely to me that Daisy is bad. In addition, like I said earlier, my opinion on her is based on my gut, which tells me that Daisy is genuine. I've seen no good reason to suspect her over any other player in the game. Since you keep prying about it, do you think I should have reason to be concerned about her?

I have not just asked you, I have asked others too, who posted that remark with no qualifiers. And tbh, even if I did get role hints, I don't believe them in any case. Too many new players, too many people unfamiliar with Dr Who, it would be amazingly easy to make a false claim. I guess my thing was, WHAT other things? I would like to see things that make her not bad, if I am wrong I want to know it, but you have to know I can't just "trust" you, I need a *why*. My opinion is based on MY gut, and I have seen nothing to contradict it. If she has dropped role hints, then she wants to stay alive. I would like to see more posts from her other than the defense variety.

I do think you should be concerned about her, and I have clearly said why. She had very few posts up to the point where she started defending. Most were buddying up to MP. Then, high defense mode, I think Epi might have been lynched to save Daisy. She just *feels* bad to me. But I will reread her, and tbh, I think we need to dive into what happened during the last lynch today.

Personally, I want to lynch Made. He was the runner up yesterday, and he is the person we have to decide about, really. I utterly HATE it when people are lynched for supporting someone others suspect, or voting so save the suspicious person, and then we lynch THAT person instead of the suspicious person they were supporting/saving. So I would like to lynch Made, then when/if he flips bad, we look at his supporters.

Linki~ it was a little less cutthroat~ and the polite giggle is just a polite giggle. For a polite Mafia site.

Well, I find it unlikely he is faking it, tbh. My guess would be that Jackie, for whatever reason, became more active, and thought it would be funny to insanify zeek since he asked about it.

He came from STV before our time, Chris. He has played, but only the gentler STV version

Not sure about BWT, but I know Bea dislikes trying to play curses, etc.

I was working under the assumption that Jackie suddenly became more active, which for various reasons, is a distinct possibility. Are you so sure she's dead, Chris?

And TH, thanks for the reply. I will address it more directly later, still in bed, Lol.

Dana wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:Welcome back Snowy! What are your thoughts on the last lynch?

Good one.
I think I was surprised. But more thoughts later on how it went down and the reasons for my voting pattern.

Is Snow Dog 2.0 allowed to talk as or give explanations for Snow Dog 1.0? I'm kind of actually really confused about the people replacing that were already previously in the game. Of course they get new roles and such, but they're still the same person with the same play style and all of that. What are the rules for this? As in, what are they allowed to do or say or talk about?

Why should he be restricted?

This post has a "sour grapes" feel to it, IMO. Like you are annoyed that Snowy did not stay dead.

I'd like to hear why she, like TH, feels Daisy is a civ? I have fine toothed Daisys posts, can't find role hints. I am at a loss.

zeek wrote:

S~V~S wrote:That was a horrible result, and the fact that it was so obvious made it even more horrible

What was obvious? That Snow Dog was civ? I have to disagree, it wasn't.

At the end of the lynch, that there was a save going on. Those three votes, glomming onto the suspicion of someone most people view as civvie. Especially MM with his "gotta save MP" thing , I did not but that at all
.

I know I said the Epi lynchlooked like a save, but this one was so overt. I am willing to drop my suspicions to keep the vote tight and vote for Made or one of the last Snowy voters.

Also welcome back, Epi Hope you're still good.

That is an extremely shitty result

Enrique wrote:

Gotrees wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Gotrees, what do you think of Made, did I miss it somewhere or are you unsure?

Right now, I'm mostly unsure about Made. I feel like he wouldn't have all those votes if he wasn't really suspicious (or something evil was going on), but right now, I'm just not really seeing the suspicions around him.

Dom: Could you link me the posts where he said he misread you so I can get a sense of the context?

Look at the voters. Four out of five are hardly involved in this game.

I am curious as to how being quieter makes them bad. They all voted early, Bass at least as I recall voiced prior suspicion of Made; you and he even had a bit of discussion on it, where Bass said you were defending Made, iirc. They all voted fairly early, which would make them a pretty crappy baddie team. And I think we do not have crappy baddies this game since we have only lynched civs. All but ONE of those Snowy votes came after Made took his last vote. I don't want to hear that they were saving Daisy, or anyone else.

I still think Daisy is bad (and look forward to people explaining to me why they think she is civ, I have an open mind), but am more than willing to look in Mades direction tomorrow. Then, depending on how that goes, we can look at the Snowy voters.

That was a horrible result, and the fact that it was so obvious made it even more horrible

Interesting, a last minute move to Snow Dog from MM, bringing him over the top.

I do find Mades behavior change interesting. And the way he kinda lashed out, it had more of a cornered baddie feel than anything. I mean we have seen Made lynched as a civ a few times, and he did not have that element of anger.

And THIS was the roll smiley I love:

zeek wrote:SVS, I do not expect you to change your vote but what do you make of Snow Dog?

I have no idea. He is kind of a wild card in general, and very much an individualist. Perhaps bordering on the curmudgeon. I would hope tp see more discussion from him regarding actions, but it is some time since I actually played with him; last game he played I modded, and the game before that, I hosted.

As I recall he was more careful as a baddie, but

I tend to view scattered behavior as more likely to be civ than bad.

But this lynch will be illuminating, I think. More people have been non commital, and more people have been discussing who they DON'T think is bad than who they DO think is bad.

I really do want to know why re TH, what he sees that I am not seeing. He seems pretty sure about it, and if he feels that sure that she is a civvie, he should try to convince the people who suspect her that they are wrong, right?

And I used to overreact to trolling and take it to heart, I don't any more

fingersplints wrote:

Dom wrote:

zeek wrote:

Dom wrote:

zeek wrote:Snow Dog has gone from Hedgeowl to Spacedaisy to Made.

Is nobody but Made even concerned about him?

Zeek, tell me all the people that MP has voted during the course of a lynch

Please read a previously made post by yours truly that refers to the fact that MP gives a reason when he changes his vote. Snow Dog does not.

linki - Where is the eye rolling smiley? Can someone direct Dom to it please.

I think I missed that post. I just wanted to see if you had a reason

Please, roll your eyes. It's cute.

I found this guy in LC's collection and I think he does look pretty cute!

I found that too, but i was looking for the OTHER roll eyes, the one we had at the Piano. That was the PERFECT roll eyes. I wish we had it .

No, not at all. That was when I responded to it, becasue I tend to respond to posts specifically mentioning me. I have felt your entire game felt insincere and that you were picking & choosing. Not just with me. Your whole game. It's a gut thing.

And I am sorry if my jokes are not up to your standards. I shall stop making them.

Turnip Head wrote:Because I think she's bad and hiding something by not responding to Roxy.

I'm only going to change my vote if I think it needs to be done to save Daisy. I think she's civvie.

Linki vote for whoever you're the most suspicious of man

Why? What am I missing?

I am leaving my vote where it is, I am going to go take care of my brother and his broken heart, and plot revenge on the bitch who broke it, I will probably be back before the end of the lynch, but i am not 100% sure and I am OK with my vote where it is.

Bullz, you said you would be too busy, we peer pressured you into it <3

Bass_The_Clever
Black Rock
Bullzeye
Boogs Replaced by Turnip Head v 2.0 Night 2
Canucklehead
Dana
DFaraday
Dom
Elohin
Enrique
Epignosis - Lynched D2. K9
fingersplints
Goatees~ I think M but really not sure
Hedgeowl
Juliets - Lynched Night 1 - River Song
Keys11tybillion
Long Con
Made
MetalMarsh
Mister Rearanger - Nightkilled Night 1 by The Master
Moving PIctures
Nikki- Replaced by Juliets v 2.0 Night 2
Ninjablooper
raywaS
Rox
Sabie
Snow Dog
Spacedaisy
SVS
Turnip Head - Nightkilled Night 1 by Daleks
Zeek

Chris

And it is a good thing to consider. I know Epi was not popular, but he was a civvie. And I do think his lynch felt like Saving Miss Daisy.

Made? I was hoping for Hedge vs Daisy, but no one feels the Daisy thing except me. I agree, Made is playing a way different game than I am used to (did anyone ever answer re whether he has ever been a baddie? No, right?) and I could see him being bad. BUt I could see Daisy & Hedge & Metalmarsh being bad, too.

Linki~ good points re secrets.

Zeek, I thought it was her general blendiness, and Roxy points (which were made more than 10 hours ago) that Hedge (who is a girl owl) did not address.

fingersplints wrote:SVS, Elo says she is not one of those three. At least that is how I interpret this post:

Elohcin wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:MM: Seriously? I've been talking my head off and I even mentioned once earlier to JC that I felt a bit uncomfortable talking during the night when I typically do not, so yeah... Given the fact that I took no votes yesterday, I had a feeling I was going to get targeted with an NK.

I stand by what I said. Survived night kills are fishy. You're clearly not a cybertron, which makes you less suspish. I also have been getting civvie vibes from you in general. But you still survived a night kill.

Linki: You're not on my lynch list.

Linki 2: Stop posting MP and let me post.

Three civ roles appear to have the ability to potentially survive an NK on their own; Mickey, Sarah Jane and Captain Jack. So what makes it so suspish? Plus the person who attempted to kill Elo was a civvie. I am curious why her survival does not seem as bad to you.

Look harder....there are other civ roles with surviving skills.

True, but not sure how that would make her bad? Could you explain it? I am not the best at deciphering role hints.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Metalmarsh, this is the post I made very shortly before the one you quote. This is wht I think you are bad, tbh. Taking crap out of context and trying to make it into stuff it isn't.

How have I taken anything out of context? Am I misreading your posts?

You totally ignored the previous post discussing the inconsistency in favor of using the second post to make implications. This has been your MO, IMO ( ) pretty much this whole game.

Linki~

There is Sarah Jane, Mickey Smith & Captain Jack. One implies immunity (flip of a coin), one says he is "hard to kill" and the third says 50/50 of night targets failing. Bad Elo is s lot flail-ier when shes cornered, this Elo is not.

Linki~ didn't Bea answer that day one?

I know I am behind, but I don't rcall anyone else hinting at being a role survival civvie, was it MP?

Metalmarsh, this is the post I made very shortly before the one you quote. This is wht I think you are bad, tbh. Taking crap out of context and trying to make it into stuff it isn't.

S~V~S wrote:Thats some mad formatting, Dom

fingersplints wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

keys56000000000 wrote:

Made wrote:Do you know why you didn't die Eloh?

That seems to be what she's implying here:

elo wrote:Did you guys not reread the civ roles pertaining to surviving night kills?

linki: Elo's dropping serious hints here. I don't know what to make of it, but it'd be best to exercise caution here.

I'm only restating what I already said the day after the attempted NK, nothing more. And I didn't get any PM from the host saying I went too far then, so I am thinking I am okay.

Thing is, I don't have any reason to trust you or believe you are telling the truth here. There are baddie roles that can survive kills too.
I have to think about this some. I'm not sure why you wouldn't be punished if what you claim is true.

Personally, I think it is very believable. My only reasoning in bringing it up after the night post was that people were all over MP for surviving, not all over Elo. I don't know that I think Elo has the balls (and I mean this in a good way, lol) to false role claim as overtly as this.

\She has implied she is one of the civ roles that might be NK resistant. That is clear. What more do you want her to say?

My standard, "just walked in the door, react to the last few posts" post.

I am going to drop a vote on Daisy, might change it later, but I may or may not have a lot of thread time tonight, my brother is having a sad, and taking care of my baby brother is more important. But I will try.

Anything anyone has specifically addressed to me that I have not addressed?

Linki~ Another post

Linki, who else hinted at that? And I am aware or three such roles off the top of my head.

Generally, it is not an info role unless implied in the role itself. I have seen games where the civ ninja killed ONLY civvies (Bea, what was that game at HV, was it Stoners? Where Booneh only killed civs?). Just becasue a civ tried to kill someone does not make them bad. If civs were infallible, we would not play this game cause the baddies could never win.

Some of the Epi voters, the JC1 voters, were civvies as well. I take ninja kills, like gossip roles, with a grain of salt.

Thats some mad formatting, Dom

fingersplints wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

keys56000000000 wrote:

Made wrote:Do you know why you didn't die Eloh?

That seems to be what she's implying here:

elo wrote:Did you guys not reread the civ roles pertaining to surviving night kills?

linki: Elo's dropping serious hints here. I don't know what to make of it, but it'd be best to exercise caution here.

I'm only restating what I already said the day after the attempted NK, nothing more. And I didn't get any PM from the host saying I went too far then, so I am thinking I am okay.

Thing is, I don't have any reason to trust you or believe you are telling the truth here. There are baddie roles that can survive kills too.
I have to think about this some. I'm not sure why you wouldn't be punished if what you claim is true.

Personally, I think it is very believable. My only reasoning in bringing it up after the night post was that people were all over MP for surviving, not all over Elo. I don't know that I think Elo has the balls (and I mean this in a good way, lol) to false role claim as overtly as this.

\She has implied she is one of the civ roles that might be NK resistant. That is clear. What more do you want her to say?

My standard, "just walked in the door, react to the last few posts" post.

I am going to drop a vote on Daisy, might change it later, but I may or may not have a lot of thread time tonight, my brother is having a sad, and taking care of my baby brother is more important. But I will try.

Anything anyone has specifically addressed to me that I have not addressed?

Linki~ Another post

ebwop~ I left off like a whole half a sentence, :greenblush:

SVS tried to say:
Her trying to pit he & I against each other (which is how I read her post, "Start arguing or you will seem suspicious" felt very like trying to set up a thread distraction, pit two loudmouths against each other, no one will be able to see anything else, IT WILL BE BADDIE HEAVEN!!)

...was how that was supposed to go, the cute l'il kitty distracted me.

Turnip Head~

Hedgeowl often sounds bad to me, so I am a poor judge of her. She has a tendency to say things that, on first glance, seem logical, but then when you reread them... she is a very good player, and for all her wordiness when she posts, she blends really, really well. She makes wall of text posts, so it is concerning that I recall little of substance of what she has said. I think Roxy made some good points, and Hedge is on my shortlist. Roxy is very, very good at pulling insights out of posts. She is on my "skulking around in the file room rereading list" for today.

Bass took a break for a while, and I was expecting to see a more involved game from him, but most of my experience is with Bass as a baddie, so this could be non-BTS Bass. Like Roxy, Bass is good at the sudden insight, and I had not thought much about his game specifically, but now I will reread him.

My short list, as zeek requested, is:

Daisy
Hedge
Metalmarsh

MM seems to have all opinions contrary to mine, which does not make him bad. But he seemed to be intentionally ignoring some things , and his posts just "feel" insincere to me.

My thought on Daisy have not changed. I think she was saved the other night. Her pre lynch psts were mainly buddying MP. I don't recal ever playing a game since they have been a couple where she was the bad one and he was a civ (I may have faulty recall here, but I can't think of one), so I would expect her to post as she has here were that the case. Her trying to pit he & I against each other (which is how I read her post, "Start arguing or you will seem suspicious". Then her response about not recalling WWE when I know for a fact that she & he have discussed topics specifically regarding how he reacts to me. And that game, where he & I were sending each other flame PMs when we were baddie teammates would be something that came up in any conversation he may have had regarding our dynamic. We were both pretty annoyed with each other in a reality way.

And thanks for the "Who Posted" list, in smaller games and on my computer, I tend to not need it, but on phone/tablet I am finding it makes like a zillion percent easier.

fingersplints wrote:

Chris wrote:A. I don't think LC can read me any better than the normal player. If anyone can read me, it's SVS.

B. I thought I floated the idea that MP was a baddie who self targeted, but maybe I'm wrong.

And keys, I am normally more of a baddie hunter, but I haven't played in a long time, and I was having some trouble getting into this game. But I am getting in to it more now, although I doubt I'll ever be as involved as I used to.

hmm, I was going to ask SVS as well but then I thought of a game when I hosted you both and I think she helped get you lynched and you were both civvies. Well, ok then. SVS - what do you think about Chris this game? While I'm at it, I'd like to hear from juliets as well.

To be honest, he does not feel bad to me. I am not in agreement with most of what he says, but that does not make him bad. When he's bad he has more of a rubbing his hands together, chuckling maniacally quality that he is missing when he is civ. I am not seeing that here. It is possible he has switched his game up, but I think that would be something hard to suppress.

Alex, I meant night protection,