The Syndicate

MovingPictures07 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Yes, we really need to lynch her to be 100% certain, I think. If she is NKed, we don't really know, and we need to as it will illuminate many peoples thoughts on other people.

If Stevie is sure, then he should do what he thinks best. I personally would like to know, though.
Part of me feels that way because I really like to have the certainty/concrete evidence, but the part of me feels there is absolutely no way she is NOT Epignosis's teammate, so why waste an entire day's lynch on her when we can try and get #3? I mean, since we saw Epignosis flipped baddie, do we really need to see Elohcin? I know I don't.

I don't know, it's something to think about anyway.

Linki with BF: I agree and I'm leaning Snow Dog over llama if one of them is baddie. What is giving me pause is that I could see him as a mistaken civvie. But I think Snow Dog's behavior here is a contrast to MacGyver (where he was effectively civvie but was the indy) and llama's seems very similar to other games I've seen from him.

Yeah, we all know you don't think Llama is bad, you have said so repeatedly. Personally, having hosted him in MacG, I think this game is totally opposed to that one, what with the crypticness and the refusal to talk about the suspicion of him. I see it very differently than you do.

Linki~ MP, the more you try to say we should just let Elo die without the knowledge it would bring, either way, makes me more and more leery of you, confirmed or not. Knowledge is power, and with a 24 hour lynch, having a candidate we can all agree on seems a good thing. I think we need to KNOW for sure, since it will put much of what has happened in the thread into perspective.

Like i said, i am sure Stevie will do right

It is Stevies decision; I know that when i ninja, I like to follow my instincts, and let the thread take care of the really obvious ones. But thats me.

No point arguing about Stevies power, he will do as he sees fit, which works for me

I don't like telling people how to use their night powers.

Ebwop~ otherwise we will be lynching people based on the supposition that she was bad, based on one players list.

Yes, we really need to lynch her to be 100% certain, I think. If she is NKed, we don't really know, and we need to as it will illuminate many peoples thoughts on other people.

If Stevie is sure, then he should do what he thinks best. I personally would like to know, though.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:YAY~!!! Never so glad to have been mistaken
Well, what do you think, Elohcin next? And do you still feel like llama is bad as strongly as you did before, or does this change your opinion at all?

I don't know what to think of Elo~ she certainbly sounded bad in that last post.

And my reasons for suspecting Llama are still there, although this death makes it less likely, tbh. But still very possible~ although it is likely that Indi was a civ, and NOT Spider, which I find relieving since she did not really come across as baddie to me

But it was Llamas behavior that caught my eye, and he has not done much since to make me feel differently, although this result says to me that i could just really suck at reading Llama, time will tell.

YAY~!!! Never so glad to have been mistaken

Actually, I did not see that you said it, I thought MP said it, I have not totally caught up. Got home, read Llamas posts, skimmed MPs, was gonna read the rest with dinner and a nice drink

And I know I have said that too, but I am really trying to get away from that kind of term, it sounds baddie, when a lot of the time it isn't. Sometimes it is just stubborness, though. I can be stubborn, as, I am sure, many of us can be~

EBWOP:

That random line:

That civvie SVS said:
And each game is different, so comparing this situation on Day Two to MOTU is somewhat disingenuous.

was in reference to this quote, which i somehow thought i quoted, but did not. Sorry for that.

thellama73 wrote:
DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Roxy wrote:Epig and llama - this is just Porcu's playstyle.
It may be his playstyle, but it doesn't mean he is good.

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote: Talk about a really sudden vote. :O
Talk about another one.

*Votes DP*
Any reason you're targeting me in particular? Not any other lower posters?
Yes, I don't trust you.

Regarding targeting low posters in general. We just had a vote in the MOTU thread in which only four of the twelve survivors posted because of everyone's aversion to voting for low posters. I don't like thta kind of endgame, and I don't want the same thing to happen here.

thellama73 wrote:I was just looking at the roles again and noticed the Spider. Does anyone think it is significant that no one was insanified today? Presumably the spider was just role blocked, but there may have been missing PMs, meaning that he may be an inactive player.

@Kate: Were there missing PMs from last night?

Might also mean he was Indiglo~

And each game is different, so comparing this situation on Day Two to MOTU is somewhat disingenuous.

So is saying I have "tunnelvision" for suspecting the same person two days in a row. I really feel that Llama is bad! not sure how that is tunnelvision, any more than those thinking Epig is bad 2 days in a row is tunnelvision. This is why I hate Jargon-y names like "tunnelvision" and "bandwagon" etc. because they are ways to put a baddie spin on normal mafia-playing behavior, and to make people look bad for nothing.

I have to do a quick reread and catch up

I just got home from work, and Yay, lots of discussion.

He-Man wrote:I'm not buying SVS being baddie at this point.

RIP indi

reywaS wrote:Wow, what a bunch of posts. I feel exhausted after reading all of that.

MP, you make a lot of sense with your case on Epignosis. I agree, we should lynch him today and go from there. I'm still not totally convinced that llama is not his team mate and the lynch was switched away from both of them, but I take your comments about llama's game play into consideration as I don't know him well at all. Interesting points you had there. Elohcin could be Epignosis team mate, but I do think you are off when it comes to SVS. First of all, she was targeted for a night kill by the baddies. Second, in my experience with SVS....and I have extensive experience with her both as her team mate (I've been team mates with her more than anyone else) and as a civvie going after her when she was also a civvie...she is more likely to get upset and give up as a civvie than as a baddie. I think she's a lot more cool and collected as a baddie strangely enough and much less likely to "give up". I could be wrong here, but I'm leaning civvie on SVS right now.

Thank you for backing me up on that point, when I have people depending on me, I turn to them to keep me level, and I try harder to keep it together for the team.

I am still OK with mo vote for Llama, since starting with implying discuission was boring, moving on to voting for an easy target, and refusing to talk with me or take me seriously, UNTIL I survived an NK and he had no choice, all make me feel good about my vote for Llama. But I think an Epig lynch, since e3veryone else seems on board with that, is a good way to go.

And interesting theory about Epig/llama, Rey. I guess that is possible, it would be phenomenally bad luck for them to have 2 baddie teammates both under suspicion, but I guess it is possible.

linki @ llama, I meant "DP", not sure why I typed "me". Bad proofreading ftl

I think it reads that way, too.

Roxy wrote:Also that makes no difference to this game I just wanted to point out you can never tell with Porcu. He is very tricky to read, I do feel like I can read him better than most and am leaning civ on him so far. I remember dogs and cat mafia - good times for some lamo!

Interesting point about Epig and you, llama.
More food for thought.

Ahh ok SVS perhaps I better call it a night my eyes are tired.
I thought it super strange she was going to place a vote on Juliets who wasn't even playing. That convo with MP (?) Had me doing a double take.

Linky so much - daisy - <3 I knew if anyone would get it, it would be you!

I know, me too, I am fried. Although, like I said, DP is often an easy target. So Llama, who voted for me, saying HE was an easy target made me feel good about my early "hissy fit" vote for Llama. That was really the whole point of me bringing DP up~

And actually, that WAS the one thing that DID strike me about Elo~ her wanting to vote for a low poster so badly. There was TONS of discussion, and low poster voting at that point was kind of odd. I had forgotten that.

Roxy wrote:I have probably had more btsc in games with DP than anyone else.
Last year we went through many games and had btsc. Some games happening at the same time. A record so far as I know I think it was 4-5 games in a row. I am sure he will back me up on this and clarify more.
I never once 'prodded' him to post more. Why would I do that b/c that would be so un-Porcu-like.

In Dogs & Cats at TP we were teammates, we won that one, out whole team lived.

When it was time for a poll, or we needed him in BTS, I posted a Board of Canada song on his wall on FB, or somewhere else he might be, once in the minichat at RM, lol. It worked, he always showed up

My point was not that, though. My point was that Llama said that he, llama, was an easy target, yet he voted for DP who is often lynched when a civ due to low posting. I, like Llama, tend to view voting for easy targets as a baddie move, and DP can be an easy target.

thellama73 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Um, the baddies know who the civvies are, except for the Indies. I mean why YOU? Why not any of the other 12 or so civvies?
Why not me?
I was already garnering suspicion when you started commenting on it, and one might think I was an easy target.

Actually, historically, DP is an easy target. he gets lynched quite often since he tends to be quiet, more so when he is a civ than not. He talks more when hes a civ cause his teammates prod him. For old times sake, this goes out to you DP:

I mean, I have been fairly tenacious

since almost immediately after your ennui remark. It does not appear to have done me much good.

Why would a baddie do this?

And if I recall, i was the first to bring you up.

Um, the baddies know who the civvies are, except for the Indies. I mean why YOU? Why not any of the other 12 or so civvies?

Why would I try to set you up?

Also, Alex, I have to do rereads all the time since I am mostly on phone during the day, and if there is a lot of posting (like right before the last lynch, when all the Epig/Elo discussion was happeneing) I was going through liek 10x linkis just trying to post a vote. So maybe you say that about "a quick reread" all the time when you are bad, but i do not.

i really need to do those reread since I miss a lot on the phone during weekdays.

Linki @ FH~ OK, but I still think it is plausible in a speed game especially that the baddies "use it or lose it". You have to use up those one use items fast, or the game is over. Ask Russti, MacG ended with him holding a civ switch and stop. In Jurassic Park at LP my team used our switch to save a member of the OTHER baddie team, lol, and while the civs were concentrating on them, we took them all out.

The more likely scenario is that Epig is bad, but I am not totally convinced becasue the pile on him really felt like an attempt to save Llama, and there is only the one bad team. Or maybe he is the Sword. I just really, really think there was a save of Llama.

@Rox, OK, ha ha, I thought it was like a "thing" I was woefully ignorant of

Linki @ Llama, I am sure in my gut. That certainly is not infallible. And which hand did i overplay exactly?

What is a Mother Superior?

Roxy wrote:First who is ' Wolf'?
So I guess most of it seems like a statement I really shouldn't be so lazy with my punctuation.

So you see why I hesitate to jump right to frame job? Like you said you have done the same and gave your team the win. Which is why I ask why did you jump so quickly to frame job? Just b/c of llama? He could be rogue but I don't think he is mafia.

You really do not say a lot about Elohcin. You did not find her and Epig's parroting to be nose twitching?

"Wolf" is a role

Wolf - Wild until the baby wolf finds him or he finds the baby wolf. Each night, while wild, he will switch the targets of any two players. Each night searches for the baby wolf. Once tame... *secret*

And I was not making a comment on your grammar, i was explaining why i did not reply to it. And we obviously do not find the same things to be nose twitching, since I do not find myself even remotely suspicious.

Linki @ Alex~ I know Kate well, lol, and i initially doubted she would put them on the same team. When she said Andrew assigned it, i thought it more likely as it was more likely to be a random result with a 4 person baddie team. But the odds would still be against it.

i could be wrong. I don't know her at all, and mainly know him from the mod/host thing in MOTU.

And yes, Alex, I read them. Like I said, I find it unlikely they are teammates.

Also, tbh, I am more likely to walk away and give up as a civvie becasue I don't have a team depending on me. I am always glad when I survive an early NK, especially in a one baddie game, because then i don't have to worry about constantly defending.

And Roxy, i said more than once maybe 5 times, that I think it unlikely that the host would put them on the same team. Maybe they sound alike because they are married. No idea.

Linki @ MP, well, i don;t know him well. I thought it seemed like he was trying to imply that the current discussion was boring; I know the host thought so since she was going to end the day early.

Also, I do really think Llama was trying to squash discussion, even if you don't MP; first the Ennui remark, then giving Rox & Snow grief for having a prolonged discussion. Then his refusal to discuss suspicion of him. My guess is he was waiting for me to die, lol.

Nothing he did or said after my initial suspicion of him made me feel any differently. Like at all.

Linki w/BWT, I also freak out when i am a falsely accused civvie, which is like every game i play as a civvie. It is frustrating never getting to be a civvie becasue i spend more time defending myself as a civvie becasue every *&&*(^@^&*%@&) baddie team thinks setting me up is awesome and fun.

And really, it is not

Roxy wrote:Here is the quote you missed SVS

Roxy wrote:Sorry Snow Dog for confusing you with Epig.

And thanks for the response anyway Epig. Still your post don't give me a very civvie vibe.

SVS- I have re-read llama and tbs he wasbacking up Snow Dog for most of the day but he did bring up low posters first acting like there wasn't much else to go on.
He really did not care or respond to other when they mentioned this was absolutely normal behavior from Porcu.
He just posted and voted not waiting for a response from Porcu.
He basically backed up every person that was brought up for lynch except Reywas.
Then this morning he refused to respond to all of your queries and suspicions.

I do wonder, however, about this last lynch. Why it was not switched to llama. I feel like I am missing a piece to this puzzle.

When you first posted that you thought Epig was framed I had to wonder why you jumped immediately to this conclusion. You said at first you did not see the case and felt it was a baddie drive to Epig. Now you say you see the case on Epig though you still hold out it was a frame.

There is no way a civ would have switched this lynch this early in the game with no civ btsc. It is just too early to be so sure and use your one time power on a person you have no idea about.

On the other side of the coin as a baddie I wouldn't use it to save a civ at all. I would be greedy and save it for someone on my team. Which is what I think happened.They probs left llama b/c either he is a teammate (not likely but probable) or b/c he was/is under a ton of suspicion.

I firmly believe this switch had NOTHING to do with the D 0 poll.

So I am extremely torn about what to think and I hope others weigh in with their thoughts maybe the picture will be more clear.

This is a statement, not a question.

And I go back and forth on whether a team would use their switch this way. I have done it, and it basically gave my team the win. We got them to suspect the person we switched from, and basically drove the whole game from there. And that was not a speed game~ they need a few lynches to go their way and most of their kills to go through, and they can win fairly fast and easily. In this case. they get rid of the person they switch to, they cast huge suspicion on Epig and anyone who defends him, and go through a few lynch with no suspicion whatsoever.

I think it is worth it. Like I said, i have done it.

My main problem with it is I really think Llama is bad. Very much so. And I don't see him & Epig being teammates. So unless Wolf is bad, I am not sure what to think about Epig. Hence my waffliness on him. He fooled the living heck out of me in Avant.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Go on, throw a hissy fit, instead of actually trying to combat anything of what I've said and try to defend yourself. You'll notice I'm even still slightly considering the chance I could be wrong about you. If I really am wrong, you're doing a terrible job convincing me with that kind of behavior.

I nearly get killed, and all I have done since the post is have to defend myself. I felt that llama was suspicious, and still do.

I think you ALWAYS read me that way. Always. You alwasy think I am bad.

i don't think I need to defend myself, I have done nothing wrong. So i voted for the person i really do think is most likely to be bad, and if you think I am the person most likely to be bad, then by all means vote for me.

Voted llama.

When this game is over, I get to call what you owe me. And you won't like it.

you are so wrong.

LOL

Some day we will play a game where you do not suspect me when i am a civ.

I'm out.

ebwop, actually, I answered it in the very next post, lol~

In any case, Occams says the baddies attempted to kill me becasue i am not one of them. I know I am an easy target to switch things on to, it happens all the time. but this time it will be a hard sell.

So lets tal about Llama. i really do think he IS bad, and this attempt on my life has made me think so even more. i know i was not the only person who thought so, and several of you had other reasons for thinking so that I did.

i am also willing to discuss Epig~ i do think he put on a good showing this AM, then again, i thought he was pretty convincing in Avant as well. I still don't know that i think the hosts would have put him & his wife together, though.

Roxy wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Well crud, RIP MP Sad to see both you and your role go~

I am not sure whether I think Epi is bad or whether he was set up; it would be a bold move, but speed games are all about bold moves.
Why do you think he was set up - of all the people that could have been set up - why him specifically?
You do not find any of his or Elohcin's actions nose twitching?

This? I did answer it. I do not see him 7 llama being teammates, and I do think Llama is bad. That is why I was considering that the lynch of MP was setting up Epi.

I can't see what question you are asking, can you please re-ask it? I somehow have managed to miss it.

Thanks

I am not ignoring anything, there is nothing to ignore.

And no one would waste two powers like that in one night in a speed game for no tangible benefit.

So, what do you think of Llama, Roxy?

Perhaps the baddies retreated to their chat room to regroup.

Don't see how any of these guys can survive a nightkill:

Zombie - An undead mob. Decides who sends in the kill each night, can switch one lynch during the game.
Spider - Creepy huge arachnid. Each night he scares the heck out of a player thus insanifying him for the next day period.
Skeleton - A reanimated bunch of bones. His vote is worth 2, he can split his votes via PM.
Creeper - A creepy green creature. Each night he creeps up on a player and blocks his ability for the night.

\

With the possible exception of the Creeper blocking his own teammate, the Skelton, I believe it was in the post, thereby wasting two powers in one night in a speed game for the sole reason of giving one player who was not under one hell of a lot of suspicion some cred.

Awesome plan.

Other than that, I don't see how this team could survive a self directed kill.

Roxy wrote:
This failed NK of SVS feels like a totes wifom event.
My. Hed. Spins.

Why? I would seriously like an explanation of why this is so Wifom-y. Had it been a failed kill of Epig or maybe Llama, I could see it.

Hmm, so far 2 people have said wifom in relation to the failed kill of myself, while a third has implied I was suspicious, all for no real reason I can see.

Could you elaborate? What suspicion? Why wifom? I really am seriously perplexed.

I would like you to explain this. Then we can get "OMG SVS is a baddie" out of the way, and start lynching the real baddies.

Flyin' High wrote:RIPIYWG Indi! I was leaning civvie on you.

I think it's odd that the mafia chose to kill S~V~S who had some suspicion on her.

I did?

And ripiywg Indi~

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:Elohcin voted me too because she's mean and hates low posters.

Those mean low-poster haters come after you quite often, lol.

Kate wrote:I am going to move the post back tonight about an hour 630 is a horrible time for me as I am typically just getting home. I also want to apologize in advance as tonight's post will be brief. I'm on some heavy duty headache medicine.

Feel better, Sunshine~ we're ready when you are

He-Man wrote:Also epig didn't really fight or deny the suspicion on day one it looks like he knew he wasn't being lynched.

This is true. Having done some rereading of the time right before the poll ended this AM (I was trying to post on phone and got a zillion linkitises, I missed a lot of what happened at the time), I have to agree with this, he really didn't. So while a frame is still possible, the possibility seems more remote to me now. Although it is very possible he could be the civ switcher, or just timing is in play here about his lack of defense, and it is still a frame

His last few posts really are pretty civvie feeling to me, so

It still feels to me that with the votes spread as widely as they were, and having reread, that the drop on Epig at the end felt like a save. He really did not seem as suspish as some of the other vote getters, all of the non boring discussion was about other people, them the boom gets dropped on Epi when it was starting to look like Llama was going down.

Awesome story, it sounds like a lot of fun

It does not, however, effect my feelings about your role in this game, and your refusal to address direct suspicions.

thellama73 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:I am tenacious, lol. I really am.
Yes, I've noticed.
So still no serious response?

Gotcha
I'm an experimental player. Today's experiment is to refuse to give you a serious response. Let's see how it works out!

It will most likely work out hurting my feelings, but whatevs. Intentionally trying to make me feel foolish is a time tested way of upsetting me and making me and my suspicions look stupid. Wonder where you heard about that?

@ Kate~ Do either of the Lynch switches require a vote be cast for the person to whom the lynch is switched?

thellama73 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:I am tenacious, lol. I really am.
Yes, I've noticed.

So still no serious response?

Gotcha

There you go again. Dismissing it like it isn't serious.

I like you too~ I thought you were awesome in MacG but I am as srs as a heart attack about how I feel about you in this game, and I am tenacious, lol. I really am.

Well, I know the host has been busy with some stuff, so i am sure she will get to it when she has a chance

Very true, it has. And here is why.

You ridiculed or otherwise tried to make those engaging in discussion look bad. This really struck me. I mentioned it right away, and you did not reply to it, although you were in the thread, and made several posts, until i had to bring it up a second time. When you finally did address it, you were dismissive of it. As you kind of still are. This is contrary to your actions in MacG. When someone mentioned you, or spoke to you, you were right on it.

This also struck me.

Then saying, "well, you just think i am bad, so I won't bother to reply" seems to me like you are trying to imply I am being unreasonable, and that my suspicions need no response. Reasonable people will ignore them. Basically blowing me off. I am always willing to back off and admit it when i am mistaken, and humble myself when i have made a mistake, but you are not giving me anything to work with in that direction, tbh.

thellama73 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:But even without BTSC, any civ might have reason to switch a lynch, although I find it less likely on Day One. That remark, "the civs have no BTSC", just really strikes me in so many ways.
You've made up your mind about me, so I don't see much point in trying to convince you otherwise. Let's hope the others have better judgment.

You should try, you might change my mind.

Giving up seems, well, baddie to me.

But even without BTSC, any civ might have reason to switch a lynch, although I find it less likely on Day One. That remark, "the civs have no BTSC", just really strikes me in so many ways.

thellama73 wrote:
blindfaeth wrote:Rip mp, I really can't believe you turned up civ. I made an error in voting for you, sorry.

I was also going to point out that in addition to the zombie having a lynch switch, the diamond sword does as well, so it might not have been a save or set up at all, but maybe the sword did it. Then again, the sword also has a lynch stop, I think on a day one that's more likely to be used.
True. What motive would the sword have to switch the lynch anyway? The civs have no BTSC.

You talk as if you are not one of us

Well, if the civ who has that role is very sure that the person being lynched is not bad, and that someone else IS bad, they may switch a lynch. In this case, they would have been wrong about MP. I am more inclined to think it was not the sword , though~ it feels more like baddie shenanigans to me.

Civs with a switch use it all the time, even without BTS, though. Not sure why that matters.

OK, so that means basically random~ Andrew is unlikely to know of interpersonal relationships on the board. So Epi/Elo teaming is more possible, but I am still not sure i buy it.

And Thanks Kate, for being generous

indiglo wrote:SVS, you think Llama is bad due to some "piling on" issues previously?

I don't really think the frame job theory on Epig holds a lot of water for me. (Simply because now I know for a fact that at least 2 of the voters are not baddies.) However, I suppose some baddies could have gotten it started... so that is something to consider.

Actually, I think quite the opposite. I think if we lynch Epi (and I am sure we will) and he turns up civ, that the baddies are in the end, not the beginning. But if he turns up bad (and that is very possible) I am guessing the other baddies will be in the scattered voters. Better safe than sorry would be their strategy.

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