The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Sorsha wrote:I feel like there's something up between Epi and Eloh, I commented on this last night too but I'll go through it again.

Epi called out Golden, Quin and Eloh as bad. Talked about wanting to lynch Eloh even. Then night happened. Quin and Golden aren't lynch options and so Epi backs off the Eloh suspicion today. Sorry I'm on my phone right now or I'd pull quotes for this.

But I think it's a weird situation.

I could vote for either Epi or Eloh and probably will.

Good observation. Comment, epi or eloh?

It's not a good observation. It's a poor one.

Sorsha's theory is that one of us recruited the other. That would be foolish on my part. I would never press someone's lynch the same Night I'm trying to recruit him or her- especially her of all people. That's moronic. As for the other way around, I doubt Eloh would recruit me. She likes gabbing with people. If she wants to talk to me, she can holler across the house.

But let's assume Sorsha is right. Why is Sorsha interested in lynching independents? What's wrong with good old fashioned mafia members? You know, the ones civilians need dead to win? The entirety of Sorsha's effort Day 4 was to talk about me and Eloh. The only things she had to say about anybody else was at the tail end of the Day phase and didn't really say anything.

She ultimately voted for one of us because "it's a weird situation." Right. The idea that someone would be hesitant to lynch his wife, given that she voted for Glorfindel and got cursed by the other mafia, and then have to deal with the backlash in the thread if he is wrong is such an unfathomable concept.

Epignosis wrote:Dom #1 went to his shallow grave with a stern finger at Quin.

Dom #2 votes early for Eloh (I saw you had voted some time this afternoon).

What has changed?

To be clear, I'm not really interested in, "Well I think Eloh is more suspicious now." What made you less suspicious of Quin, and why did you vote as early as you did?

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:Add to that, I have every reason to believe that the troupe know I'm a civilian, and the fairness of epis unwillingness to back off me (plus, I believe, epi believes he can get me lynched - he is circling me like a snake all game, waiting for the time to strike)

Unwillingness to back off you? I haven't said one word about you since Day began. What do you call that?

An angle. What, do you think I'm good now?

I didn't say I think you're good. But it's incorrect to say I have been unwilling to back off of you.

No, it just means you want to interpret things in your own favour again. I was talking about your read of me, not the number of posts you make.

Irony.

You're the one who is unwilling to consider that my (dynamic) opinion of Eloh is one of a civilian who is trying to figure her out. You're the one who has already voted for me. You're the one who thinks he already has my role pegged and has to get 2/3rds majority. I think you're just pissed because I ran you through the wringer and I won't apologize for doing that.

You're the rigid one. Not me. I haven't voted for you and haven't made up my mind where my vote will go. You're the one rocking the 95% sureness (but 100% wrongness).

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:@Epi - about the wilgy and MM Sir curse. I can see wilgy coming up with it b/c he is a bit zany. I don't see MM as that zany.

I don't regard the "Sir" curse as especially zany, but I do think MM can be about as zany as Wilgy.

However it wasn't just the Sir curse in context. LC's idea was that I personally would curse you (the teammate) for "triple WIFOM."

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote:Well, as long as this one is going to take off, I do actually have an opinion that I've been holding back because I didn't want to get nightkilled. No, I'm being serious.

Epi and Elo are on a team. And that team is the Guardians, of course - they can't be Troupe because they voted Glorfyo. That's the team with VP Nero, the curser. Elo's curse was a double-whammy self-hit for the team, in that she was cursed or cursed herself to call Epi Sir (a member of the Guardians) in every post. It's kind of triple WIFOM: Elo gets cursed, Epi bears the brunt, and she calls him a role on their team. Maybe his role, I don't know if it's that extra delicious or not. My gut would say 'yes', because why not?

Knowing (and I'm going off meta here which may be eight months or so out of date) that Epi is often asked what his opinion of Elo is, and is supposedly often right, Epi's (I believe) first opinion of Elo is that she is bad. Then he allows himself to talk himself out of it because of logical reasons, and threatens suspicion on those who disagree:

Epignosis wrote:I have some suspicion of Eloh, but she's been cursed (however mildly), and I don't care for the way some here have tried to force me into staying suspicious of her when there is some evidence in her favor.

This is what I believe is going on here. I just think it all fits, it all makes sense to me. This is what happens when Epi and Elo are on a team together. Nothing I have seen since I started thinking about this has made me believe it less. I do think he believes what he says about Dom and Quin, and he may be awesome and be right.

It was bizarre to see you say you could see Wilgy doing this over MM when the constant in question was you (i.e., the teammate).

Anyway...

The reason I asked about MM and Wilgy is that MM is alive and Wilgy is dead, and I consider them more or less equally zany.

In your post, you said:

Elohcin wrote:I'm not sure about MM, but wilgy for sure. Was he alive at that point? If so...I can try to do one of those ISO things on him today after the kids are done with school. Maybe it will further support my suspicions of Dom J/k. Or am I?!

This implies that you know Wilgy was bad.

The Hook-Handed Man – He may discover the identity of a dead player every night.

Mafias with this ability are generally eager to learn the role of the person they killed. And guess what?

14. Wilgy - killed by Count Olaf Night 3

That means Wilgy would be checked Night 4.

It's Day 5.

Tell me- did you throw Glorfindel's replacement under the bus?

Epignosis wrote:This was all it took for you to vote sprityo after he replaced in for Glorfindel:

Elohcin wrote:

DFaraday wrote:Effective immediately, Sprityo is replacing Glorfindel.

And yeah, dead members of factions win too.

I have to wonder why Sprit replaced Glor. Glor was pretty active. I know glor has a hard time being mafia, so maybe it was too much pressure.

This is all I have to go on right now, unfortunately. So, *voting Sprit*

Two minutes later:

Elohcin wrote:ooo, I just broke a three-way tie. I had no clue.

Elohcin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:What if I said I wanted to lynch Eloh instead?

I don't think that's a good idea, Sir.

Snow Dog wrote:I agree that Eloh has not said much and followd votes. Is that not because she is busy in RL, Rob?

I think I can answer for myself. Yes. We moved. My kids all had the stomach bug one after another. I had the stomach bug after them. I continued to unpack. I did a wedding cake order. Then we had my brother and his lovely family visit. Life has finally settled though. Today is my first day of winter break with no responsibilities outside or the normal mom/wife duties (and the wifely duties were taken care of this morning ). I am here to answer questions etc. I do believe I have done a pretty steller job keeping up during all my business. I suspected sprit/glorf correctly. I suspected Quin and now others seem to think he is bad too. I am not sure what I think of him anymore really. But at least it shows I wasn't off my rocker. I am catching up/reading through today's posts now. We'll see if I have anything to add.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: I suspect Daisy and especially Eloh for what looks like vague or poorly thought out arguments not taking the full thread into account.

Dude, I've been busy!! I haven't been able to take the full thread into account. BUT...I was right about Sprit and got no stinkin' credit for it. At this point, I have been using my experience of playing with these folks to decide if I think they may be good or bad. Now that I have time for Mafia...I can try to use the thread activity to understand what's what.

After last night's posts from Sir Epi, I am not sure of his position. I think he may be indy like whoever else it was that suggested it. I don;t see him acting like this as a civ or a baddie. His baddie game is a bit more calculated than this. His civ game is a more rational than he's been lately. Or....it could have just been the .

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Does anyone have a good reason to believe Dom is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe Quin is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe epi is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe that eloh is civilian?

I thought I did but confidence is fast eroding. Feels like Epi starts with conclusions like "Eloh is town" or "Quin and MarDom are scumbuddies" and then backs into the conclusions, making poor assumptions like "the scum wouldn't post restrict themselves so Eloh can't be on that scum team" or "Dom 1 lie detected Quin even though there were no useful lie detect posts prior to Day 1 and then Dom was MIA all of Night 2."

Additionally, his attacks on Quin and Golden do not ring true to me and he put forth the argument that ultimately got Snow Dog lynched.

(Epi will likely argue semantics about all of this but I'm not gonna play that game. I'm busy playing a different one.)

Eloh? No. No reason so far for me to believe she is town.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Top suspects:
Epi (Golden is my spirit poster, obv buddies with Eloh, framing and reframing but he can't change what actually happened, distancing, gets rude/vague when losing arguments)

Eloh (obv buddies w/Epi, lots of nonsensical "Oh, me and Epi wouldn't do that if we are scum so therefore we aren't" and suspected by most the players I trust)

MM (Sig's case looks decent....but the follow up lynch is potentially me and I'm not teamed with the marmot. In fact, if MM is a Trouper, I can't be on his team, along with DDL and INH. Anyway, I feel an Epi/Eloh lynch tells us more and I suspect them more and their scum team would theoretically have more members left alive. If Epi and Eloh are dead tomorrow or one flips not mafia, I'm happy to string up MM next.)

Want more from Sorsha but she doesn't make the list yet.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I love how Eloh's defense is all like "I'm not scummy like you think cause I'm good at mafia, now."

Like congrats but I still think you're bad.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:PS, Eloh, I think Dom is exactly the same kinda crazy he was the first time.

That's the main reason I'm not following you/whoever else accused him. He may not be taking more than 5% responsibility and he may not be doing a ton to help the town (at least not yet) but I think he's a good guy.

Because of his consistency. That you say he lacks.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

sig wrote: I'll read him over first.

Excellent idea.

Anyone want to propose a reason to lynch Eloh over Epi or Epi over Eloh?

I feel Epi has been more intellectually dishonest and obvious about defending/distancing from Eloh and of course there's the Snow Dog lynch (that I don't entirely blame Epi for cause Snow wasn't helping his own case much) while Eloh has generally contributed less and feels more like attempting to buddy certain players.

My general feeling is that it is more likely that Epi is scum and Eloh is town than vice versa but I could be convinced otherwise.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Reread the day. Several things I'd like to talk about. Let's start with the elephant.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Quin wrote:

sig wrote:

Quin wrote:This game is giving me flash backs to Turf Wars.

We're still doing better then that game.

I mean technically we're only two civs down, one mafia member, then another three unknowns. So I'd say we're doing pretty good. Also who knows maybe I'll have another god like meta/gut read I can talk about next phase.

If not? Then I've got no idea who we should lynch.

I was more-so referring to the atomic bomb of suspicion I'm anticipating coming into the next day phase

I don't think you're all that suspicious. Why do you think you're suspicious? Guilty conscience?

At the time of this post, you appear to be the sixth person to accuse (and I'm using that word loosely) Quin or say that Quin specifically merits an ISO. This is on a day that pretty much nobody talked about anything but Dom. I find this (and I hate using this word) interesting and would like some other people to weigh in with their thoughts.

First, Sig includes Quin on a list of possible Troupe members for voting away from Gloryo but not at LC.

Second, DDL and Quin do their OMGUS dance. I trust DDL more as a whole but sympathize more with Quin's side of this specific argument. (This may not actually be second as I read the thread backwards then forwards. Whatever.)

Third, Eloh goes off on Quin for not following the Dom train, which is hilarious to me for several reasons. Eloh doesn't know why we're voting Dom. Several players have expressed concern that the Dom lynch is too easy. Some asked for other suspects (LC) or provided them (Epi) but most just said they were worried and nobody strongly went after anyone. Quin still votes DDL, which I disagree with but it draws unnecessary attention no matter how Dom flips and won't save Dom if they were w/w so I don't see why a scummer would bother. As town, it at least gets an opinion on record and as indy, it might be nightkill insurance. Whatever Quin's reasons for voting DDL, I think Eloh's response is way off mark. It's a bad look.

Fourth, INS comes in and says he's worried about the Dom lynch. Maybe he should look into Quin. I generally like INS but why Quin? This is why I say "interesting" cause if I didn't already like INS as town, I'd really dislike that post following Eloh's but since I do...idk.

Fifth, Snow Dog comes in, apologizes, then says he needs to look into Quin. This feels opportunistic, piling on a weakly thought out/discussed consensus. But it's hard to say Snow is being opportunistic without saying the same for INH so again...ugh....interesting. Also afraid I'm tunneling on Snow cause drunk/Day 0/Day 1 Snow didn't look good to me.

Sixth, MM comes in and suggests Quin isn't actually suspected so he must be scum imagining things. But like it's a jokey suggestion that's easy to backpedal from or was harmlessly thrown out, depending on MM's alignment. I don't see Quin imagining his a-bomb of suspicion. It's more like a Hot Fuzz sea mine of suspicion. You can bang on it but it probably won't be going somewhere unless a baddie leans real hard on it and gets himself killed.


Relevant posts:

Spoiler: show

insertnamehere wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I suspect Golden.

That's someone I've had a negative gut read of for a while. Planning to ISO him, Quin, and maybe a couple others when I get a chance.

^INH says Golden and Quin should be looked at

Snow Dog wrote:It was a bad decision to sign up for this game. I have way less time for it than I envisioned. Apologies to everyone and especially to Dom. it was a lazy vote by me. I will try better in future but I cannot promise this. I will check Quin's posts if I have time.

^Snow reduces that to Quin only.

Elohcin wrote:I've been occupied all day with visiting family, but coming in late in the day, catching up, and seeing all these votes on Dom...this is what I see.

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Shall I bus Dom?

Of course

Are you admitting to being on a team with Dom?

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm not sure why... I think it's because he defended sprityo? :shrugs:

and

Spacedaisy wrote:Well who else would you consider sig, same to you Wilgy?

Daisy's tone here sounds like she is trying to subtly defend Dom and lure players away from voting him. It's like what Quin did with Sprit.

Quin wrote:Guess who I'm voting for?


Not Dom.

If Dom is bad, this is strike 2 for you.

I've done pretty well so doing the opposite of Quin. I think I will try again. *voting Dom too*

^Eloh acts like 1 vote against a 13 vote train is an attempt to save Dom

Elohcin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Heh. I just heard you close your laptop. You forgot to actually vote.

*sigh* classic Tasha.

Spacedaisy wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm sorry I missed the vote guys, my sister got in tonight for the beginning of a week and half visit. I got sidetracked and missed the poll end.

Sorsha, I was not trying to lure anyone from voting Dom, I was trying to keep things from being a one track lynch and at least get some input on other people, see what some of the late voters might say and consider some other options because I don't know what I think of such a runaway lynch tally...

Linki: Yep that would be why.

I think you mean Eloh, not me!

*facepalm* You're right, I do mean Eloh, I don't know how I mixed that up.

Well, with the way the lynch went, I think I need to look elsewhere, away from you and Quin. Time to change things up, b/c it looks like the baddies might be directing this game atm.

Anyone know who began the Dom suspicion? I know I could look at the first voter, but that's not always the person who lays the groundwork.

@ MM - I was talking to you as you said, "Shall I bus Dom." But now that we find Dom wasn't bad, I guess you aren't his teammate. Why did you make such a post?

^Eloh later admits to not having seen the groundwork for the Dom lynch, which I take to mean she doesn't know the reason for the Dom train.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I will not vote DDL, Epi, Sig as I view them as town.
I am resistant to voting Nacho and Marco (the later because it will tell us nothing).
I have no strong opinion on Son and MP.
I suspect Zebra but as nobody has mirrored these feelings, I suspect it is more culture clash than anything.
I suspect Daisy and especially Eloh for what looks like vague or poorly thought out arguments not taking the full thread into account.

One of those bottom five will get my vote today unless I see a damn good argument for why it should be elsewhere.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Loving what I'm seeing from Daisy today. Glad to see Nacho getting back in it and I like most of his contributions as well.

Not voting either of them today.

The whole Eloh Epi discussion actually makes Epi look worse to me than Eloh. Put me on the "bad assumptions lead to bad conclusions" team. Eloh still scum in my eyes but definitely merits a full ISO. Epi still town in my eyes but I could see cult recruit. He gives Eloh the benefit of the doubt, then denies it. Does not seem pocketed. Wants a reason to not vote Eloh.

I don't like Golden as a whole but I like every Golden post aimed in my direction. Needs an ISO to get a better read.

Daisy's case against Snow sounds a lot like my actual problem with Snow. Lots of throwaway posts and too little content. Much as I like Daisy, my trust in her is newfound. Snow deserves a full iso.

Now, how much time I have to do these ISOs depends on how long Big Love keeps my wife's interest.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Couple minutes late, I see. Probably would have voted Eloh.

More likely townies on the Snow train, though. Hoping that's a good sign.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Quin wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Would you agree Quin that we are not team mates?

I would.

This is something that I would enjoy doing with a teammate in a game, and I can't be the only one.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I will not vote DDL, Epi, Sig as I view them as town.
I am resistant to voting Nacho and Marco (the later because it will tell us nothing).
I have no strong opinion on Son and MP.
I suspect Zebra but as nobody has mirrored these feelings, I suspect it is more culture clash than anything.
I suspect Daisy and especially Eloh for what looks like vague or poorly thought out arguments not taking the full thread into account.

One of those bottom five will get my vote today unless I see a damn good argument for why it should be elsewhere.

Why resistant to voting Nacho? And why suspect Daisy and Eloh for not liking their arguments? Do you think that is in any way alignment-indicative?

Snow Dog wrote:Although zebra's argument for me saying i hadn't read my role was wrong I think her argument was sound for all of that. It is certainly something i might do for the reasons she gave.

Thank you. I don't see why what I was indicating was possible (fishing for opportunistic baddies with ambiguously slimy behavior) was simultaneously far-fetched and wrong-therefore-bad, and I also suspect Jackofhearts for arguing both of those inconsistent positions at once.

In other news, I don't see why Dom replacing back in is such a big deal in terms of tipping the balance. If DFaraday is confident that it won't interfere with the game's outcome in anyone's favor that I don't see why we should doubt that. Moving on...

Long Con wrote: I think Quin is bad based on his behaviour, and the point Sorsha made is good as well.

What aspects of Quin's behaviour do you find to be alignment-indicative?

Nachomamma8 wrote:Long Con's role analysis here: Golden, I'm looking for your input on this specifically; I was impressed how you looked at his Monkey Island role spec and came away feeling great about it (and was even more impressed when I agreed with your conclusions). I was expecting you to comment on it here because I thought that it was significantly weaker here than it was there (in particular, the part that stood out to me there was his analysis of baddie roles there but I thought it lacked the same depth here); do you not usually comment on his role analysis/do you think this one was particularly neutral/did you decide not to comment on it just so I'd call you out about it later?

This post feels forced and disingenuous to me.

Spacedaisy wrote:So far I don't find anything suspicious in DDL, he reads extremely civ to me. But I am going to finish it to be sure it doesn't change my opinion.

I strongly disagree with you on just about everything you've said in these pages and I'm reading you as town.

I will write my response to the following pages at a later time...I need to crash now, I just had to deliver some content first.

Hi, Zebra. Welcome back to the game.

Why not Nacho? Cause he seems like he's trying to solve and I generally have liked his arguments. Doesn't mean he's town, especially with two scum teams but it's better than a handful of the other players up for lynch yesterday.

Do I think bad arguments are indicative of alignment? Sometimes.

Suppose a wolf is presented with two lynch choices, a townie and a fellow wolf. There is no good reason to vote for the townie. Using a bad reason allows the wolf to place his vote where he wants it, not where the town needs it. Or the scummer could use no argument at all, saying they have a gut feeling. The problem is that this sometimes catches wrong townies, not scum. Or if I'm wrong about the argument being bad, the whole excercise is moot.

There is no end to the list of things that are both far fetched and wrong. I'm not sure if I believe you really believe that is an inconsistent position but I'm not sure you don't believe that, either.

Dom replacing in either proves Dom can double think or he didn't have useful/any night results. I can't double think on purpose. The one game I tried to, I basically argued myself into knowing what I was supposed to not know, not being 100% sure I'd have actually figured it out without the game knowledge I wasn't supposed to have. I'm not saying DFaraday made the wrong call but I am saying it makes a difference and could have made a much bigger one if the culture here regarding replacements was different.

I somewhat agree with you on the Nacho's post feels forced, thing.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Dom wrote:Eloh's cake here is pretty crumby.

She never addresses WHY she thinks I am bad. Only that she thinks it's "possible".
It's possible that this entire game is being orchestrated by a computer software that has been developed by an advanced civilization and we are living in it. Do I think it's likely? Unclear. But I have no evidence pointing to it.
Now, this is Eloh's exact logic. It's possible Dom is bad so he IS bad. I read from the point I replaced in forward and she never offered a single reason to vote for me other than she wanted to.


in one post she:
1) criticizes golden for not catching up but posting anyway
2) does not criticize me for doing so
3) claims she has not caught up but posted anyway
Whatever bullshit she is pulling with being the judge of excuses for absences does not address this in any tangible way.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Dom wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Dom

Suppose a townie sees what they think is a 13 vote train on a fellow townie. What is the proper action to take?

Should they vote for the townie, elsewhere or nowhere?

If they think someone is a townie then they should not vote for them and actively try and flip those votes.

RE: Townie lynch

Understood.

Suppose you come on and there are 13 votes on a player you have a slight town read, a slight scum read and a strong scum read on. What are your moves in each scenario?

What do you do if you see 5-8 votes on a train for one of your null reads and you don't have time to find out why those votes are there before the day ends? Do you vote?

I pursue a genuine case against someone else. I do not come in and try and claim "friendship" with the person being lynched.
Not just tell that townie at the end that they are that townie's "friend". You haven't assuaged this concern of mine with Quin. You aren't addressing it. It doesn't make any sense that you are defending him when
1) he's not my top suspect
2)you're not actually addressing the reasons why I suspect him.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: RE: Your goose

Your goose was cooked by your bad posts (partially due to not having enough good posts to even them out due to sickness or whatever), a Sig idea, a full arguement built by me and then nobody doing anything else.

So yeah, I'd be surprised if scum wasn't involved at all. But at least two of the people most responsible (me and you 1.0) are/were not bad and Quin, regardless of his alignment, was not responsible for your death. So why are you going after Quin? Why not me or Sig or anyone after the fourth vote who made it hard to switch to someone else or anyone who voted for you without knowing why or anyone who said they were suspicious of another player but ultimately voted you?

Are you after Quin because he's most suspicious? Or because he voted differently and you haven't read the full day you were lynched?

I didn't have bad posts because I wasn't bad. Your framing of it that way is very... eye opening. I was not responsible for my lynch. You people were for not even bothering to wait to see me defend. It's sad and shitty civilian play by you all.

You continue to misinform people on the reasons I ssuspect quin. Why?

My questions were not entirely about Quin. A 13 vote train is a plurality voting game is very surprising to me.

If I come on and see a 5+ vote train on someone who is not a high ranking suspect in my book, I don't vote for him. I don't vote when I'm not caught up unless my vote will be the deciding vote and I think I can save a townie, even with my limited understanding. I probably don't even vote in a 5+ ahead train for a player I do find suspicious cause what's the point?

So it's not just Quin's vote I don't understand. It's like 2/3rds of the votes.

Quin's not your top suspect. Eloh is. But I don't disagree with you on Eloh and in fact have further reasons to suspect her. I don't feel the need to nod my head.

Why am I focusing on Quin to the point where you think I'm misrepresenting? Cause I disagree with your assessment of his behavior Day 3 and you continually make posts that imply you don't know why you were lynched. "Baddies cooked my goose." Pff. I got you lynched. I laid out the argument. You haven't addressed it once, yet you keep saying the town sucks and scum killed you off. Makes it look like you're full of shit and just mad you got lynched as town. So if I'm wrong, tell me why you really got lynched. Or admit you don't know and stop talking about it.

As for Quin, he voted DDL when 13 of 20 votes were on you. You say if he was a real townie, he should have tried to sway the lynch away from you. That's literally impossible. If Quin was Jesus Christ himself and sent the mafia Holy Spirit into all the players and convinced them beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were town....you would have still been lynched.