The Syndicate

@Epi

Huh?

Feeling better about LC. Been worrying about him in part because of the reptile contest thing but in hindsight, the reveal is far more protown than the hold back was anti town.

sig wrote:Okay here is two tin foil theories for the price of one.

Sprityo was on the same team as LC, which is why he didn't vote for him until the very end and the lynch proof thing isn't real.

number 2, which I think is more realistic. Jack is on Esme's team and attempted to NK me since they thought I was on Olaf's team. however, this failed so they're low key trying to push my lynch now.

I'm going to look into Jack, after I look at Zebra and Daisy.

It's healthy for us to both have some tinfoils and it would be good for you to look into me.

But I'm not pushing for your lynch anytime soon, even if a few players came in saying you were known for bussing. After all, you've survived a mafia kill from one scum team and lead a lynch against the other.

Not sure what to think when I ask meta questions and get no answers. It would be much more useful to hear "Sig never/often busses teammates" than actually argue why you would or wouldn't do a thing based on logic. I don't need your defense cause I'm not really accusing you.

Golden wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@LC

When you and Spirityo were on the chopping block, was there a reason you didn't tell us you were lynch immune?

Wouldn't a no lynch have hurt the town?

No infodumping, but how do we know this? Did lc say it later?

Something to that effect, yeah.

@LC

When you and Spirityo were on the chopping block, was there a reason you didn't tell us you were lynch immune?

Wouldn't a no lynch have hurt the town?

@Dom

So I'm gonna take your non response to mean "I still have no idea why I was lynched and I'm just making up shit on the fly cause it's easier than admitting that I don't know what's going on."

Let me recap a bit to help you out. Here's a recent exchange.

Dom: Quin is bad cause of how he reacted to my lynch train on Day 3.

Jack: What would you have done in his place as a townie?

Dom: A real townie would have tried to not get me lynched.

Jack: That would have been mathematically impossible.

Dom: Yeah, well, Quin is bad anyway.



K. Opinion noted.

Epignosis wrote:

DFaraday wrote:Esme Squalor – Esme is obsessed with fashion and high society. She won't allow herself to be lynched unless she gets at least two-thirds of the votes. SECRET

I don't have a big problem with runaway trains.

In general or because of this specific role?

Part of the reasoning against Dom 1.0 was his response to the Glor train, meaning he was not suspected of being Esme.

And when someone doesn't post for 5 days in a row, they don't get to call other people out for not waiting on them.

Take responsibility for your actions. As long as you're wearing that martyr hat, your reads will be twisted.

Dom wrote:Eloh's cake here is pretty crumby.

She never addresses WHY she thinks I am bad. Only that she thinks it's "possible".
It's possible that this entire game is being orchestrated by a computer software that has been developed by an advanced civilization and we are living in it. Do I think it's likely? Unclear. But I have no evidence pointing to it.
Now, this is Eloh's exact logic. It's possible Dom is bad so he IS bad. I read from the point I replaced in forward and she never offered a single reason to vote for me other than she wanted to.


in one post she:
1) criticizes golden for not catching up but posting anyway
2) does not criticize me for doing so
3) claims she has not caught up but posted anyway
Whatever bullshit she is pulling with being the judge of excuses for absences does not address this in any tangible way.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Dom wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Dom

Suppose a townie sees what they think is a 13 vote train on a fellow townie. What is the proper action to take?

Should they vote for the townie, elsewhere or nowhere?

If they think someone is a townie then they should not vote for them and actively try and flip those votes.

RE: Townie lynch

Understood.

Suppose you come on and there are 13 votes on a player you have a slight town read, a slight scum read and a strong scum read on. What are your moves in each scenario?

What do you do if you see 5-8 votes on a train for one of your null reads and you don't have time to find out why those votes are there before the day ends? Do you vote?

I pursue a genuine case against someone else. I do not come in and try and claim "friendship" with the person being lynched.
Not just tell that townie at the end that they are that townie's "friend". You haven't assuaged this concern of mine with Quin. You aren't addressing it. It doesn't make any sense that you are defending him when
1) he's not my top suspect
2)you're not actually addressing the reasons why I suspect him.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: RE: Your goose

Your goose was cooked by your bad posts (partially due to not having enough good posts to even them out due to sickness or whatever), a Sig idea, a full arguement built by me and then nobody doing anything else.

So yeah, I'd be surprised if scum wasn't involved at all. But at least two of the people most responsible (me and you 1.0) are/were not bad and Quin, regardless of his alignment, was not responsible for your death. So why are you going after Quin? Why not me or Sig or anyone after the fourth vote who made it hard to switch to someone else or anyone who voted for you without knowing why or anyone who said they were suspicious of another player but ultimately voted you?

Are you after Quin because he's most suspicious? Or because he voted differently and you haven't read the full day you were lynched?

I didn't have bad posts because I wasn't bad. Your framing of it that way is very... eye opening. I was not responsible for my lynch. You people were for not even bothering to wait to see me defend. It's sad and shitty civilian play by you all.

You continue to misinform people on the reasons I ssuspect quin. Why?

My questions were not entirely about Quin. A 13 vote train is a plurality voting game is very surprising to me.

If I come on and see a 5+ vote train on someone who is not a high ranking suspect in my book, I don't vote for him. I don't vote when I'm not caught up unless my vote will be the deciding vote and I think I can save a townie, even with my limited understanding. I probably don't even vote in a 5+ ahead train for a player I do find suspicious cause what's the point?

So it's not just Quin's vote I don't understand. It's like 2/3rds of the votes.

Quin's not your top suspect. Eloh is. But I don't disagree with you on Eloh and in fact have further reasons to suspect her. I don't feel the need to nod my head.

Why am I focusing on Quin to the point where you think I'm misrepresenting? Cause I disagree with your assessment of his behavior Day 3 and you continually make posts that imply you don't know why you were lynched. "Baddies cooked my goose." Pff. I got you lynched. I laid out the argument. You haven't addressed it once, yet you keep saying the town sucks and scum killed you off. Makes it look like you're full of shit and just mad you got lynched as town. So if I'm wrong, tell me why you really got lynched. Or admit you don't know and stop talking about it.

As for Quin, he voted DDL when 13 of 20 votes were on you. You say if he was a real townie, he should have tried to sway the lynch away from you. That's literally impossible. If Quin was Jesus Christ himself and sent the mafia Holy Spirit into all the players and convinced them beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were town....you would have still been lynched.

Long Con wrote:You just try to stay aware of the most optimistic and the most pessimistic possibilities, and go from there. You don't base your game on the sure and easy knowledge that knowing who 100% of the dead players are, you have to just keep rooting to find all the bad guys until they're dead. At some point, we will probably be informed that one of the Mafia teams have been eliminated, and that will give us a bit more insight (unless we lynched all four of them.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@LC

What do you think of Epi in light of yesterday's lynch?

I don't feel too bad about him. If Eloh turns out to be bad, that will look a lot worse on him. I think he has explained himself quite fully each step of the way.

Do you agree with Quin that bulletproof roles wouldn't be secrets?

No, I do not. I could easily see bulletproof-ness being a secret. However, I do doubt that any of the secrets are that the role is permanently unable to be nightkilled. Maybe Kit Snicket. Actually, after writing that, I could see either of the Godfathers being unkillable. You just have to lynch them. Probably not Esme Squalor though - she has limited lynch-protection, so perhaps it would be balanced to make Olaf have some equally-limited nightkill protection.

My concern at this point is that Sig flat out bussed his teammate, Glor, knowing he'd be replaced and people would defend whoever replaced Glor cause Glor did have good reason to asked to be replaced.

This is the ideal bus scenario. Take out a potential liability (double voting or lack thereof confirming scum is or isn't on specific trains and whoever replaces in may be behind) to gain town cred that is especially important if you're already bulletproof.

Reasons to not believe this are that the lynch did confirm several players as not Troupe and we know there is a townie that could have easily grabbed a mafia member on Night 1 and then gained cred enough to get a vest from his sister. That is, Sig didn't necessarily need a good argument to get Glor killed if he was Klaus and a close lynch train allows his to semi confirm other townies or catch other goons by going after a situational scum double voter.

So for players who know Sig's meta, do either the "Olaf bussing and secretly bulletproof" or the "Klaus setting a trap for the Troupe and getting a vest present" ideas ring true? More true than Sig just being zeroed into Glor's meta/lucking out?

Dom wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Dom

Suppose a townie sees what they think is a 13 vote train on a fellow townie. What is the proper action to take?

Should they vote for the townie, elsewhere or nowhere?

If they think someone is a townie then they should not vote for them and actively try and flip those votes.
Not just tell that townie at the end that they are that townie's "friend".

I literally posted in this game that I was ill again. I gave my reason for not being here. I don't have the time or energy to read from page 24 onward. That's the point where I had last read. So, now, seeing people say that they were my "friend" etc... yeah that rings rather false to me. If Quin actively defended me, can you point me out to where? I don't think he did. I think he washed his hands of my blood by conveniently voting elsewhere. My goose was cooked by evil people. Remember that.

RE: Townie lynch

Understood.

Suppose you come on and there are 13 votes on a player you have a slight town read, a slight scum read and a strong scum read on. What are your moves in each scenario?

What do you do if you see 5-8 votes on a train for one of your null reads and you don't have time to find out why those votes are there before the day ends? Do you vote?

RE: Your goose

Your goose was cooked by your bad posts (partially due to not having enough good posts to even them out due to sickness or whatever), a Sig idea, a full arguement built by me and then nobody doing anything else.

So yeah, I'd be surprised if scum wasn't involved at all. But at least two of the people most responsible (me and you 1.0) are/were not bad and Quin, regardless of his alignment, was not responsible for your death. So why are you going after Quin? Why not me or Sig or anyone after the fourth vote who made it hard to switch to someone else or anyone who voted for you without knowing why or anyone who said they were suspicious of another player but ultimately voted you?

Are you after Quin because he's most suspicious? Or because he voted differently and you haven't read the full day you were lynched?

Feeling like a fish out of water due to janitoring.

It's possible to we have as many as 7 mafia, 5 cult. It's also possible to have as many as 10 town, 2 survivor.

I'm used to being very aware of when I'm at lynch or lose. I'm also used to ploys where you're at 5 town, 3 scum, 1 sk/other scum group and the 3 scum convince the town to lynch the other threat, kill a townie and win. But that's hard to look out for cause neither the 3 man scum team nor the town knows when you're in that situation. As long as both mafias kill, we know they have at least one player.

Do ya'll keep some kind of running tally in your heads? Like "I think these janitored players were town and these ones were scum so we're probably at 2 in this mafia and 3 in the other" or "assume 2/3rds of townie kills hit scum so we probably have X townies left"? Or do you just do your best to catch scum until the kills stop?

@Dom

Suppose a townie sees what they think is a 13 vote train on a fellow townie. What is the proper action to take?

Should they vote for the townie, elsewhere or nowhere?

@LC

What do you think of Epi in light of yesterday's lynch?

Do you agree with Quin that bulletproof roles wouldn't be secrets?

@Zebra

Can you give a read that isn't related to Day 0 in any way?

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Golden wrote:Another runaway. I like the people on it but not the fact of it. Pretty hard to keep it close now though.

What do you call this epi? Not an objection?

No. It's an observation followed by what you like followed by another observation.

No objection.

So I heard you like to argue semantics

Elohcin wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I don't mean he's literally catching up now.

I mean he hasn't contributed because he knows too little, not too much.

How do you know this?

I don't know it but it's a better working theory than "The player who went MIA for five days sent in night actions, does have information and he's being quiet cause he's not sure what to do."

You can't give good content if you don't know what's going on. Plus the mod would be more likely to let Dom replace in if he didn't have to use doublethink.

What makes you think Dom DOES have info he can't share?

@Marmet

Huh?

Would others have expected Klaus to have lead a baddie lynch by now?

I don't mean he's literally catching up now.

I mean he hasn't contributed because he knows too little, not too much.

Elohcin wrote:maybe this is why Dom isn't posting. Maybe he is struggling with how to un-know the stuff he knows.

More likely we know he missed 4 or 5 days in a row and he is still catching up.

a2thezebra wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Quin wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Would you agree Quin that we are not team mates?

I would.

This is something that I would enjoy doing with a teammate in a game, and I can't be the only one.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I will not vote DDL, Epi, Sig as I view them as town.
I am resistant to voting Nacho and Marco (the later because it will tell us nothing).
I have no strong opinion on Son and MP.
I suspect Zebra but as nobody has mirrored these feelings, I suspect it is more culture clash than anything.
I suspect Daisy and especially Eloh for what looks like vague or poorly thought out arguments not taking the full thread into account.

One of those bottom five will get my vote today unless I see a damn good argument for why it should be elsewhere.

Why resistant to voting Nacho? And why suspect Daisy and Eloh for not liking their arguments? Do you think that is in any way alignment-indicative?

Snow Dog wrote:Although zebra's argument for me saying i hadn't read my role was wrong I think her argument was sound for all of that. It is certainly something i might do for the reasons she gave.

Thank you. I don't see why what I was indicating was possible (fishing for opportunistic baddies with ambiguously slimy behavior) was simultaneously far-fetched and wrong-therefore-bad, and I also suspect Jackofhearts for arguing both of those inconsistent positions at once.

In other news, I don't see why Dom replacing back in is such a big deal in terms of tipping the balance. If DFaraday is confident that it won't interfere with the game's outcome in anyone's favor that I don't see why we should doubt that. Moving on...

Long Con wrote: I think Quin is bad based on his behaviour, and the point Sorsha made is good as well.

What aspects of Quin's behaviour do you find to be alignment-indicative?

Nachomamma8 wrote:Long Con's role analysis here: Golden, I'm looking for your input on this specifically; I was impressed how you looked at his Monkey Island role spec and came away feeling great about it (and was even more impressed when I agreed with your conclusions). I was expecting you to comment on it here because I thought that it was significantly weaker here than it was there (in particular, the part that stood out to me there was his analysis of baddie roles there but I thought it lacked the same depth here); do you not usually comment on his role analysis/do you think this one was particularly neutral/did you decide not to comment on it just so I'd call you out about it later?

This post feels forced and disingenuous to me.

Spacedaisy wrote:So far I don't find anything suspicious in DDL, he reads extremely civ to me. But I am going to finish it to be sure it doesn't change my opinion.

I strongly disagree with you on just about everything you've said in these pages and I'm reading you as town.

I will write my response to the following pages at a later time...I need to crash now, I just had to deliver some content first.

Hi, Zebra. Welcome back to the game.

Why not Nacho? Cause he seems like he's trying to solve and I generally have liked his arguments. Doesn't mean he's town, especially with two scum teams but it's better than a handful of the other players up for lynch yesterday.

Do I think bad arguments are indicative of alignment? Sometimes.

Suppose a wolf is presented with two lynch choices, a townie and a fellow wolf. There is no good reason to vote for the townie. Using a bad reason allows the wolf to place his vote where he wants it, not where the town needs it. Or the scummer could use no argument at all, saying they have a gut feeling. The problem is that this sometimes catches wrong townies, not scum. Or if I'm wrong about the argument being bad, the whole excercise is moot.

There is no end to the list of things that are both far fetched and wrong. I'm not sure if I believe you really believe that is an inconsistent position but I'm not sure you don't believe that, either.

Dom replacing in either proves Dom can double think or he didn't have useful/any night results. I can't double think on purpose. The one game I tried to, I basically argued myself into knowing what I was supposed to not know, not being 100% sure I'd have actually figured it out without the game knowledge I wasn't supposed to have. I'm not saying DFaraday made the wrong call but I am saying it makes a difference and could have made a much bigger one if the culture here regarding replacements was different.

I somewhat agree with you on the Nacho's post feels forced, thing.

Couple minutes late, I see. Probably would have voted Eloh.

More likely townies on the Snow train, though. Hoping that's a good sign.

Loving what I'm seeing from Daisy today. Glad to see Nacho getting back in it and I like most of his contributions as well.

Not voting either of them today.

The whole Eloh Epi discussion actually makes Epi look worse to me than Eloh. Put me on the "bad assumptions lead to bad conclusions" team. Eloh still scum in my eyes but definitely merits a full ISO. Epi still town in my eyes but I could see cult recruit. He gives Eloh the benefit of the doubt, then denies it. Does not seem pocketed. Wants a reason to not vote Eloh.

I don't like Golden as a whole but I like every Golden post aimed in my direction. Needs an ISO to get a better read.

Daisy's case against Snow sounds a lot like my actual problem with Snow. Lots of throwaway posts and too little content. Much as I like Daisy, my trust in her is newfound. Snow deserves a full iso.

Now, how much time I have to do these ISOs depends on how long Big Love keeps my wife's interest.

DFaraday wrote:I don't believe there is any balance issue.

Long Con wrote:My theory: Dom 1.0 missed pms and/or checked folks who are now already dead.

Agreed. Fine with the replacement in that case



RE:Metaphors

Quin put the early DDL/Snow Dog teamup post and Epi thought it was forced/too simple to be a real Quin suspicion. My bad.

I don't have much to say about that, though, cause it's my first game with Quin.




@Daisy and Golden

Who do you suspect most among the lynchable players.

@Golden

I only want to hear new stuff about Sonji. Your other posts about him are noted. I just want you to go beyond that.

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:You guys aren't getting it. I could really explain better if I could post on my computer and not my phone.

Quin isn't getting accused specifically of having certain teammates. The SNOW-DDL thing became a non-issue when the host said that statement wasn't checkable. All this stuff you are confronting Epi with is based on the SNOW-DDL statement and is rooted in an argument that doesn't exist any more.

Neither Epi nor I think Quin is bad based on the idea that he has certain teammates, so discrediting that argument is pointless.

I think Quin is bad based on his behaviour, and the point Sorsha made is good as well.

Epi's other point was that he said Quin was bad back on Day 2.....for making a play that looked like distancing from DDL and Snow.

Unless I'm misreading something, both arguments are rooted in that w/w possibility that Epi continually refuses to comment on.

You guys keep assuring me there is a stool but won't take a stance on the existence of the stool's leg. This is baffling to me.

You will probably continue to be baffled if you spend more time honing your metaphor than you do reading.

My metaphor is brilliant and you know it!

Long Con wrote:You guys aren't getting it. I could really explain better if I could post on my computer and not my phone.

Quin isn't getting accused specifically of having certain teammates. The SNOW-DDL thing became a non-issue when the host said that statement wasn't checkable. All this stuff you are confronting Epi with is based on the SNOW-DDL statement and is rooted in an argument that doesn't exist any more.

Neither Epi nor I think Quin is bad based on the idea that he has certain teammates, so discrediting that argument is pointless.

I think Quin is bad based on his behaviour, and the point Sorsha made is good as well.

Epi's other point was that he said Quin was bad back on Day 2.....for making a play that looked like distancing from DDL and Snow.

Unless I'm misreading something, both arguments are rooted in that w/w possibility that Epi continually refuses to comment on.

You guys keep assuring me there is a stool but won't take a stance on the existence of the stool's leg. This is baffling to me.

Long Con wrote:Elon, why do you want Epi to theorize about who is on the team of his suspect? Wouldn't it be a better use of time to wait until it is proven that Quin is bad, and then to look into who might be his teammate?

That's like saying I have reason to suspect that you, LC, have teammates so you may be baddies together.

Then I refuse to explain who you are teammates with and why I think so, saying it's better to lynch you first and confirm you are bad.

Bad argument. Suspicion of LC increasing.

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Epi

Let's simplify this.

Do you think hunk Quin is scum buddies with DDL and/Snow Dog or not?

Cause both the distancing and the lie detect argument point to that conclusion if you buy into them.

I have not commented on who is bad with Quin. That was not the purpose of the exercise regarding lie detectors.

I'm asking you to comment on it.

What was the purpose of the excercise regarding lie detectors, then?

And even that could bring in other balance issues.

@Epi

Let's simplify this.

Do you think hunk Quin is scum buddies with DDL and/Snow Dog or not?

Cause both the distancing and the lie detect argument point to that conclusion if you buy into them.




@DFaraday.....

Is this normal?

Necessarily, Dom has information about the game that Marco could not possibly know. I wouldn't expect a dead lie detector to be allowed to replace in unless his results were publicly revealed to the thread.

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@LC

Nah, man. The lie detectors and OMGUS is the entirety of Epi's stated case against Quin.

Relevant posts:

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:That post was phrased from my own perspective, so unless Dom has the ability peer into my mind and read my thoughts, he couldn't check that. And even if he could, it'd come back as the truth considering there's nobody who doesn't have a reason to scum-hunt in this game.

Not true. That statement had antecedents. If one of the authors of those posts had no teammates, and the other was yours, then boom. You're caught, because that couldn't have been a thing you "just so happen" to think.

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:Frankly, I think the whole thing stands. If I took anything from the kerfuffle in The Office its that lie detectors can only check things phrased as a statement, rather than a thought or assumption. I'm assuming it follows the same thing here.

Want to chime in, DF?

In a one mafia game:

"I think (not-my-teammate) is bad."

That's a lie.

Because you don't really think that.

Explain how that logic applies here.

I think xxx and yyy are teammates.

If xxx is YOUR teammate, then the lie detector can know you are lying, because you don't really think that.

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:
linki: I'd support it. Both her previous votes have lacked any actual reasoning or suspicion.

Well of course you would. The lie detector just called you bad. I wasn't really asking you, slick.

It's all about the lie detection, particularly about Quin presumably lying about DDL/Snow being teammates cause one is teammates with Quin.

I'd be hugely surprised if Dom submitted an action at all after being gone for days and the specific lie Epi is accusing Quin of, he's refused to follow up on after being pressed several times. If Epi wants to actually argue that Quin is scumbuddies with DDL or Snow, he can have at it but you can't say that post was a lie unless Quin is buddies with one of them. That's the stool's only leg. Sit on a stool without a weak leg and you fall on your butt, which is appropriate when intoxicated.

That isn't true.

Epignosis wrote:I think Quin is bad.

-Me, Day 2

K.

Care to share why you said that?

Spacedaisy wrote:Fair enough. Kind of funny to me because my suspicion of LC was way more vague than MM. My care about MM was based on his amount of posts vs his lack of contributing content. But whatever.

I will say your point about it being unlikely Dom sent in an action is the best point I have heard in Quin's favor. But his reaction to the possibility he was checked by the LD makes me think he is a baddie caught for the wrong reasons.

Yeah, but I suspect LC for reasons so I'm not gonna get into you for it.

The argument that Quin has been broken clocked and is suspicious for knowingly not using lie detectible posts is the best one I've heard.Worth ISOing Quin to check and ISOing a couple other players for a base poll of who naturally lays out potentially lie detectible posts. ie Has Quin actually done this and is it unusual.

I find the rest of the anti Quin arguments over the last several days to be a nice mixture of bollucks and tunneling or opportunism. I'm not convinced by his anti DDL arguments, either.

Have a good gut read on you. But like I said, not a fan of gut reads. Would love to hear more of your thoughts, esp on the players that are lynchable today.

Spacedaisy wrote:Jack, can you please tell what vague not thought out suspicion from me you are referring to?

Quin, I thought Epi was being rude and he annoyed me but I've never really thought he was anything other than civ. Frankly the thing that makes me suspect you most is that you popped off the defense that you haven't made a detectable statement for the LD to have checked. I have no idea how many statements I may have made that could have been checked because I don't need to worry about my statements giving me away. The fact you obviously know you haven't made any checkable statements and even that you apparently are being careful not to make them, that is the biggest red flag to me.

Basically anything you said about MM was too vague for my tastes.

Rwar phone

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@LC

Nah, man. The lie detectors and OMGUS is the entirety of Epi's stated case against Quin.

Relevant posts:

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:That post was phrased from my own perspective, so unless Dom has the ability peer into my mind and read my thoughts, he couldn't check that. And even if he could, it'd come back as the truth considering there's nobody who doesn't have a reason to scum-hunt in this game.

Not true. That statement had antecedents. If one of the authors of those posts had no teammates, and the other was yours, then boom. You're caught, because that couldn't have been a thing you "just so happen" to think.

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:Frankly, I think the whole thing stands. If I took anything from the kerfuffle in The Office its that lie detectors can only check things phrased as a statement, rather than a thought or assumption. I'm assuming it follows the same thing here.

Want to chime in, DF?

In a one mafia game:

"I think (not-my-teammate) is bad."

That's a lie.

Because you don't really think that.

Explain how that logic applies here.

I think xxx and yyy are teammates.

If xxx is YOUR teammate, then the lie detector can know you are lying, because you don't really think that.

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:
linki: I'd support it. Both her previous votes have lacked any actual reasoning or suspicion.

Well of course you would. The lie detector just called you bad. I wasn't really asking you, slick.

It's all about the lie detection, particularly about Quin presumably lying about DDL/Snow being teammates cause one is teammates with Quin.

I'd be hugely surprised if Dom submitted an action at all after being gone for days and the specific lie Epi is accusing Quin of, he's refused to follow up on after being pressed several times. If Epi wants to actually argue that Quin is scumbuddies with DDL or Snow, he can have at it but you can't say that post was a lie unless Quin is buddies with one of them. That's the stool's only leg. Sit on a stool with a weak leg and you fall on your butt, which is appropriate when intoxicated.

@LC

Nah, man. The lie detectors and OMGUS is the entirety of Epi's stated case against Quin.

Relevant posts: It's all about the lie detection, particularly about Quin presumably lying about DDL/Snow being teammates cause one is teammates with Quin.

I'd be hugely surprised if Dom submitted an action at all after being gone for days and the specific lie Epi is accusing Quin of, he's refused to follow up on after being pressed several times. If Epi wants to actually argue that Quin is scumbuddies with DDL or Snow, he can have at it but you can't say that post was a lie unless Quin is buddies with one of them. That's the stool's only leg. Sit on a stool without a weak leg and you fall on your butt, which is appropriate when intoxicated.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Oh and Snow was supposed to be in there with Zebra.

Which is good because you are on my list of suspects.

K. Why's that?

Until I reread some of your posts it's hard to pin town. But for now your vote for zebra I am not happy with, your posts about my claim to have not read my role and besides that what one might call "gut".

So culture clash from three phases ago?

K.

Let me know if you want to press that.

Btw, I never voted Zebra. I find "gut" reads to be mostly worthless, moreso when you're making things up as you go.

Gonna attribute this to misremembering rather than maliciousness for now.

Long Con wrote:

Quin wrote:Want to pick up Epi's slack, Long Con? If you agree completely, then you'll tell me which of DDL or Snow Dog is my teammate. Now.

This kind of forced path thinking is something that makes you look suspicious to me. The host already said he would not accept "I think" statements, so for you to focus on that one thing and make everything about that is misleading, a phony way to discredit his or my entire point.

But that was the entire point, right?

The post is only lie detectible if Quin knows for a fact that DDL and Snow are not partners because Quin has BTSC with one of them.

So if nobody is going to explain which Quin is partnered with but you and Epi still want to hang on to the idea that the post in question was lie detected by Dom......

I'm not quite sure where you and Epi are going with that.

Snow Dog wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Oh and Snow was supposed to be in there with Zebra.

Which is good because you are on my list of suspects.

K. Why's that?

Until I reread some of your posts it's hard to pin town. But for now your vote for zebra I am not happy with, your posts about my claim to have not read my role and besides that what one might call "gut".

So culture clash from three phases ago?

K.

Let me know if you want to press that.

Snow Dog wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Oh and Snow was supposed to be in there with Zebra.

Which is good because you are on my list of suspects.

K. Why's that?

Oh and Snow was supposed to be in there with Zebra.

I will not vote DDL, Epi, Sig as I view them as town.
I am resistant to voting Nacho and Marco (the later because it will tell us nothing).
I have no strong opinion on Son and MP.
I suspect Zebra but as nobody has mirrored these feelings, I suspect it is more culture clash than anything.
I suspect Daisy and especially Eloh for what looks like vague or poorly thought out arguments not taking the full thread into account.

One of those bottom five will get my vote today unless I see a damn good argument for why it should be elsewhere.

Epignosis wrote:If anybody else thinks I'm being irrational, please speak up.

I think you are being semi irrational.

You went from saying "I'm not being irrational" to "I don't care about rational" to "restate how I am irrational" to "let's poll the audience and see if they think I am irrational" very quickly.

*pulls out a pen and paper*

You seem conflicted. Tell me about your childhood.

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:QUIN IS BAD
ELOH IS BAD
GOLDEN IS BAD

I'm calling you clowns out.

Fine with me. Here's my number, call me a clown maybe.

You're third on the list. Relax a minute.

Is he third on the list and doesn't need to address your post?

Or is he scum in all capitals?

Quin wrote:As for Dom's accusations towards me, I don't think he even checked me. His accusation felt more 'heat of the moment' based on the fact that I was the lone off-wagoner than it was built on information. He never even interacted with me before he died, as far as I can recall.

This is the crux of it. For me, the solution is obvious.

Pending further lie detectible posts, the idea Epi presents requires the following to be true.

1) Dom, in spite of basically not posting the entire day he was lynched and the entire previous day, found time in between these days to submit his night action.

2) Dom picked a vague "I think" statement that the mod has stated he would not allow to be used in a lie detect instead of something more solid.

3) Dom received "lie" as his results, meaning Quin is either on a team with DDL (in spite of the two being at each other's throats all game) or Snow Dog.


An alternative interpretation of yesterday is that Quin stuck out like a sore thumb yesterday as several players expressed (mostly) poorly thought out logic against him and he voted one way while 13 players voted the other. Having obviously not read the thread and having obviously no idea why he was being lynched, Dom latched onto Quin due to Quin standing out.




Reading Epi as town, not indy, for one reason. Golden and LC are following him. I suspect LC of being scum. I don't quite have a bead on Golden but I really don't like the interaction with DDL for the reasons Epi stated. Could Epi be cult with LC? I guess. More likely, he's a townie barking up the wrong tree and I see baddies encouraging the barking.

Sorsha wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Sorsha wrote:Sig- Reading your case makes a Dom vote seem sensible.... But just reading his posts without your interpretation doesn't make me want to vote him so I'm kinda meh right now.

Sorsha wrote:Voted for Dom because whatever. I'll try to be around more

Lol okay, Sorsha.

Can you explain why you really voted for Dom?

Why is a train you were like "meh" and "whatever" about better with your vote on it?

Because I'm a lazy sheep

"Sheep" eh?

@LC

This post.

sig wrote:Well my streak of smartness could only last for one phase I guess.

I'll buy what LC is selling here, doesn't make much sense to lie about it.

I'll be looking through the last phase, see who defended Sprit's and why they did. Off the top of my head I remember both Dom and Quin having a negative reaction to my idea, with Dom going so far as to vote for me.

I added MM to this list.

Sorsha wrote:Sig- Reading your case makes a Dom vote seem sensible.... But just reading his posts without your interpretation doesn't make me want to vote him so I'm kinda meh right now.

Sorsha wrote:Voted for Dom because whatever. I'll try to be around more

Lol okay, Sorsha.

Can you explain why you really voted for Dom?

Why is a train you were like "meh" and "whatever" about better with your vote on it?

Reread the day. Several things I'd like to talk about. Let's start with the elephant.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Quin wrote:

sig wrote:

Quin wrote:This game is giving me flash backs to Turf Wars.

We're still doing better then that game.

I mean technically we're only two civs down, one mafia member, then another three unknowns. So I'd say we're doing pretty good. Also who knows maybe I'll have another god like meta/gut read I can talk about next phase.

If not? Then I've got no idea who we should lynch.

I was more-so referring to the atomic bomb of suspicion I'm anticipating coming into the next day phase

I don't think you're all that suspicious. Why do you think you're suspicious? Guilty conscience?

At the time of this post, you appear to be the sixth person to accuse (and I'm using that word loosely) Quin or say that Quin specifically merits an ISO. This is on a day that pretty much nobody talked about anything but Dom. I find this (and I hate using this word) interesting and would like some other people to weigh in with their thoughts.

First, Sig includes Quin on a list of possible Troupe members for voting away from Gloryo but not at LC.

Second, DDL and Quin do their OMGUS dance. I trust DDL more as a whole but sympathize more with Quin's side of this specific argument. (This may not actually be second as I read the thread backwards then forwards. Whatever.)

Third, Eloh goes off on Quin for not following the Dom train, which is hilarious to me for several reasons. Eloh doesn't know why we're voting Dom. Several players have expressed concern that the Dom lynch is too easy. Some asked for other suspects (LC) or provided them (Epi) but most just said they were worried and nobody strongly went after anyone. Quin still votes DDL, which I disagree with but it draws unnecessary attention no matter how Dom flips and won't save Dom if they were w/w so I don't see why a scummer would bother. As town, it at least gets an opinion on record and as indy, it might be nightkill insurance. Whatever Quin's reasons for voting DDL, I think Eloh's response is way off mark. It's a bad look.

Fourth, INS comes in and says he's worried about the Dom lynch. Maybe he should look into Quin. I generally like INS but why Quin? This is why I say "interesting" cause if I didn't already like INS as town, I'd really dislike that post following Eloh's but since I do...idk.

Fifth, Snow Dog comes in, apologizes, then says he needs to look into Quin. This feels opportunistic, piling on a weakly thought out/discussed consensus. But it's hard to say Snow is being opportunistic without saying the same for INH so again...ugh....interesting. Also afraid I'm tunneling on Snow cause drunk/Day 0/Day 1 Snow didn't look good to me.

Sixth, MM comes in and suggests Quin isn't actually suspected so he must be scum imagining things. But like it's a jokey suggestion that's easy to backpedal from or was harmlessly thrown out, depending on MM's alignment. I don't see Quin imagining his a-bomb of suspicion. It's more like a Hot Fuzz sea mine of suspicion. You can bang on it but it probably won't be going somewhere unless a baddie leans real hard on it and gets himself killed.


Relevant posts:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Dom wrote:NO ONE thinks it's weird that i didn't post for four fucking days?

No one?!


Look at who led you here.

Look at Quin for not voting me. He's trying to avoid looking bad.

Nobody accused you on the grounds of not posting.

We accused you because of what you posted.

If your vote was so overwhelming, maybe think what it is that you did so wrong that made people suspect you so hard. And not do it again next time.

Agreed. You can't complain about getting lynched, say the town deserves to lose but also not have the slightest idea why you've been lynched even though there were several posts about it.

I mean, you can but it's not justified.

Like complaining to a cop that you WERE going the speed limit as he writes you a ticket for running a red light.

Golden wrote:I cannot see how anyone such as epi could legitimately associate my quietness with me being bad. I wouldn't mind if he died. His suspicion of me shouldn't be trusted.

Why do you think your quietness is your primary suspicious attribute?

DrWilgy wrote: I don't trust Jack. I didn't trust Jack before the Dom thing.

Idk what to think about Epi. A ninja kill would be welcome for purposely being vague.

K. Why's that?

Dear Me,

You aren't as clever as you think you are.

Love always,

Me.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm adding myself to the chorus of apologies because getting back on track after holiday sucks bunches; I might have a little time to sneak around in the morning but am unbelievably relieved to see Dom consensus although I don't have the time to read/understand why.

I'm in the same boat.

Plus other games have distracted me... as a baddie.

Linki: I appreciate the support Golden.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:MM, who is your top suspect right now, Dom excluded?

Not sig. Not Epignosis. Not Long Con either.

I have seen good things from DDL, I have seen things I've liked not-so-much from him as well.

I don't have a strong suspicion at the moment, Dom excluded.

Hi, there.

Do you have a strong suspicion if you don't exclude Dom?