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Ppl should iso Lucy’s D2. She’s insanely invested in the idea that CR is town as a claimed role that shouldn’t really give a damn.
Let's pretend this is part of the "Jack intentionally baits wolves into making bad pushes on him" strategy and not just that I keep being certain townies are wolves EOD1.Neon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:58 pmI'd be extremely surprised if Jack flips anything other than town.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:54 pmWhat posts of Jack's stuck out to you the most?
His tone reeked of towny self-righteousness, what are you seeing?
Going all cards in on killing one player D1 in exchange for your life is not a wolfy play.
I say this with love but Creature is bad at mimicking his towngame as a wolf. It's practically a meme on MU. I (and several other players) have been able to correctly pick out Creature's alignment by mid D2 with 100% accuracy over like 15 games. Sometimes earlier. His tone and his train of thought here are just exceedingly town Creature.Kate wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:26 pmWhy are you so sure Creature is town? I'm thinking chihiro is bad. I've got to reread him. Any thoughts on him?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:50 pmAt this point, Dunya is the most likely wolf if only because I'm very certain Creature is town and pretty damn sure HK is town.lucy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:14 pmcan everyone answer this, thanksDennis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:34 pmWhich one do you think is mostly likely bad in that case?hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:32 pmI would imagine a world where lucy, dunya, and creature are all town is a world where one of them dies last night.
Yeah, tbh.hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:48 pmI respect crichs game more than to assume he'd run off half-cocked like this. It's weird and doesn't fit with the current game state. Crich feels like he's fighting for his life and the people pushing him don't feel like "they need this chop to win the game". Dunno if that makes sense but it worked in my head.lucy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:46 pmit's obvious town fucking confirmation biashollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:45 pmdo you really think the maf team outs like that? really?
how the fuck is that not seen
anyways, this game state feels weird and I want to sit and think about it while I do more back reading. And preparing a case on dunya
I sometimes think stuff like this as a townie but I don't think it with righteous indignation.
This is so fucking weird to say 2 hours into a 48 hour phase.
It's just continued game theory assertions.CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:40 pmYeah no if you're town, there's no way you don't flip Jack 1st.Neon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:38 pmScrappy should still die. But CRich should die first.hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:21 pmneon is a more astute townie than that, maybe something to look at. I'll give her a read later tonight with some thoughts
His posts D2 preceding this one do look pretty good.
At this point, Dunya is the most likely wolf if only because I'm very certain Creature is town and pretty damn sure HK is town.lucy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:14 pmcan everyone answer this, thanksDennis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:34 pmWhich one do you think is mostly likely bad in that case?hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:32 pmI would imagine a world where lucy, dunya, and creature are all town is a world where one of them dies last night.Dennis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:23 pmCould you elaborate on dunyaCRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:13 pmYou townlucy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:12 pm jack should always flip here and i think he might've tmi'ed sig town as creature or someone implied and had my general worldview be incorrect, either way i'm gonna do more town leadery stuff this cycle
i'm gonna reread d1 tonight
@CRichard what's your read on me/creature/dunya
Creature town
Dunya town.
Can you elaborate on this? The train dissolved when I showed up and started being townie. So what's wrong with the timing and what does that mean for my or anyone else's alignment?Chihiro wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:46 pmits quite normal to wanna go after the counter wagon, also CR is pretty head strong on their read. My problem with jack as of currently is the timing of the train disolving.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:14 pmYes, but why? Your vote for him now seems to be based off "Let's get the CW to green flip"...and I'm just wondering if there's actually something behind your SR of Jack beyond that.CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:10 pmAhem I voted Jack before EOD1 and am voting them now. That should make it pretty obvious Jack is in my PoE.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:08 pm Ya know if you ISO CR and do a word search for "Jack", you'll get 20 matches...and almost none of them have anything to do at all with actually reading Jack or engaging with him
I thought he was fairly towny last RD
I haven’t gotten to Mac yet but CR’s opening is pretty horrendous.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:23 pmAnd now he's fishing for rolesCRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:21 pmIs that right? Are you claiming info on Jack that clears them?falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:14 pmYes, but why? Your vote for him now seems to be based off "Let's get the CW to green flip"...and I'm just wondering if there's actually something behind your SR of Jack beyond that.CRichard wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:10 pmAhem I voted Jack before EOD1 and am voting them now. That should make it pretty obvious Jack is in my PoE.falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:08 pm Ya know if you ISO CR and do a word search for "Jack", you'll get 20 matches...and almost none of them have anything to do at all with actually reading Jack or engaging with him
I thought he was fairly towny last RD
[VOTE: CR] aubergine
Is CRich/Mac town or poe?hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:58 pm my poe is wigly, rondo, dunya, chihiro, crich
I think lucy is telling the truth and appears to be town siding atm. Dennis, mac, jack, sig I feel pretty good about being town.
Kate and neon and falcon are in the middle tier basically a town lean.
DooM can be in there too.
jdizz and creature I don't have a read on but I'll get to that eventually.
I have no confidence in CR as a wolf. It’s a possibility. I pretty much was like “well shit lol” and closed the thread after the flip after sending in my night action if I have one.hollowkatt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:56 pmok cool deal thanks.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:00 amHe wasn't being his normal townie self. All his pushes were limp in addition to low activity. Apparently, the later was because he was on a work trip or something? Ildk what was up with the former.hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:04 pm[VOTE: crichard] aubergine
explain
also @Scotty put me in a bucket I wanna ride
also also @Jackofhearts2005 explain the seanzie sus plx. I know I can re-read the thread but I don't wanna
I also misinterpreted a joke which I still don't understand. Seanzie was like "Jay said my win record is really good on discord so I'm excited to get another win." And like if the joke is "I think I am very good jk I'm not actually vain" then okay, har har I guess but otherwise, I'm not sure what the joke was. Anyway, I took this as him actually saying that he was at least excited to go hunt wolves....and then he did no real hunting. So I took that joke or whatever to be false bravado coming from a wolf.
I was not super sure Seanzie was mafia until his wagon took off near EOD. At that point, CR, who had called out Seanzie early but his push was pretty weak, said that multiple players were shielding Seanzie, effectively poopooing the Seanzie wagon. While I didn't totally catch up, I only found one post from one player pushing back on Seanzie pressure. Then the Seanzie wagon took off and the Jack wagon dissipated and CR was like "I am now certain Seanzie is mafia." So I interpreted this as a wolf (CR) distancing early from his partner (Seanzie) and then indirectly and dishonestly defending that partner by overstating the amount other players were shielding his partner (still Seanzie) to scare me and others away from that wagon before settling on a bus by saying that he was now sure his partner was mafia.
At the same time, Pyxxy, who seemed to initially townread me, was pushing hard on me for reasons I'm not aware of. Granted, I'm missing like 6 pages of content from the middle of D1 but from my perspective, as soon as my town wagon got smaller and as soon as this wolf wagon (Seanzie's) started taking off, Pyxxy started hard pushing me for entirely unstated reasons. I still don't know why Pyxxy decided I was mafia. You can go back and check this. He didn't say in the last 5 or so pages of D1.
So in summary, Seanzie was not playing in his normal town meta and two players were playing very weirdly around Seanzie fmpov. So he looked a lot like a wolf.
Also, I started tallying up a lot of independent townreads as the day drew to a close (Creature, Dunya, Sig, Kate, Lucy) and Kate was semivouching for Roxy and Dennis (I don't want to put words in her mouth but she was pushing back against pushes at them) so if I believe my townreads and I'm willing to trust Kate and give Roxy and Dennis a pass (not that I really suspected either of them but they were in that range of players I'd be okay with yeeting if we didn't have any better ideas ya know), then there weren't a lot of places for wolves to hide so my overall view of the game really fit well with a Seanzie/CR/Pyxxy wolfteam.
@Neon wanted a recap of this too, iirc.
Given seanzie and pyxxy flipped town do you still have confidence in Crich being a wolf or have you done some reevaluating of the game state and what's going on? Like your write up makes sense to me and seems like some fairly logical jack progression type stuff. Obvs I wasn't here to read it in real time but nothing you've said here seems super wrongodongo. Gonna call you town for right now though and see how I feel about that as we keep going.
Please don't postcap. For the love of the great horned rat save at least one post to say something helpful at EOD throw out a spongbob meme at the buzzer.
Tbh, I thought the reasoning was super weak.Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:07 amThis is true. We agreeJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:06 amBut Seanzie normally seems to believe his tunnels or do interesting things with the reactions to them. And often as the day will draw to a close, if his favored wagon isn't viable, he'll evaluate the rest of the game and come up with a good place for his vote (defined as a place town me agrees with, not necessarily on an actual wolf). None of this happened in this game.Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:02 amMy meta of Seanzie is hard tunnels low effort light posting... basically everything they hit on yesterday.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:00 amHe wasn't being his normal townie self. All his pushes were limp in addition to low activity. Apparently, the later was because he was on a work trip or something? Ildk what was up with the former.hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:04 pm[VOTE: crichard] aubergine
explain
also @Scotty put me in a bucket I wanna ride
also also @Jackofhearts2005 explain the seanzie sus plx. I know I can re-read the thread but I don't wanna
I also misinterpreted a joke which I still don't understand. Seanzie was like "Jay said my win record is really good on discord so I'm excited to get another win." And like if the joke is "I think I am very good jk I'm not actually vain" then okay, har har I guess but otherwise, I'm not sure what the joke was. Anyway, I took this as him actually saying that he was at least excited to go hunt wolves....and then he did no real hunting. So I took that joke or whatever to be false bravado coming from a wolf.
I was not super sure Seanzie was mafia until his wagon took off near EOD. At that point, CR, who had called out Seanzie early but his push was pretty weak, said that multiple players were shielding Seanzie, effectively poopooing the Seanzie wagon. While I didn't totally catch up, I only found one post from one player pushing back on Seanzie pressure. Then the Seanzie wagon took off and the Jack wagon dissipated and CR was like "I am now certain Seanzie is mafia." So I interpreted this as a wolf (CR) distancing early from his partner (Seanzie) and then indirectly and dishonestly defending that partner by overstating the amount other players were shielding his partner (still Seanzie) to scare me and others away from that wagon before settling on a bus by saying that he was now sure his partner was mafia.
At the same time, Pyxxy, who seemed to initially townread me, was pushing hard on me for reasons I'm not aware of. Granted, I'm missing like 6 pages of content from the middle of D1 but from my perspective, as soon as my town wagon got smaller and as soon as this wolf wagon (Seanzie's) started taking off, Pyxxy started hard pushing me for entirely unstated reasons. I still don't know why Pyxxy decided I was mafia. You can go back and check this. He didn't say in the last 5 or so pages of D1.
So in summary, Seanzie was not playing in his normal town meta and two players were playing very weirdly around Seanzie fmpov. So he looked a lot like a wolf.
Also, I started tallying up a lot of independent townreads as the day drew to a close (Creature, Dunya, Sig, Kate, Lucy) and Kate was semivouching for Roxy and Dennis (I don't want to put words in her mouth but she was pushing back against pushes at them) so if I believe my townreads and I'm willing to trust Kate and give Roxy and Dennis a pass (not that I really suspected either of them but they were in that range of players I'd be okay with yeeting if we didn't have any better ideas ya know), then there weren't a lot of places for wolves to hide so my overall view of the game really fit well with a Seanzie/CR/Pyxxy wolfteam.
@Neon wanted a recap of this too, iirc.
Do you disagree with that?
But do you not think Seanzie fully believed in their tunnel on me?
CRichard burned all but 10 of his posts before the player he's voting for has really shown up, five hours into a forty eight hour day?
But Seanzie normally seems to believe his tunnels or do interesting things with the reactions to them. And often as the day will draw to a close, if his favored wagon isn't viable, he'll evaluate the rest of the game and come up with a good place for his vote (defined as a place town me agrees with, not necessarily on an actual wolf). None of this happened in this game.Neon wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:02 amMy meta of Seanzie is hard tunnels low effort light posting... basically everything they hit on yesterday.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:00 amHe wasn't being his normal townie self. All his pushes were limp in addition to low activity. Apparently, the later was because he was on a work trip or something? Ildk what was up with the former.hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:04 pm[VOTE: crichard] aubergine
explain
also @Scotty put me in a bucket I wanna ride
also also @Jackofhearts2005 explain the seanzie sus plx. I know I can re-read the thread but I don't wanna
I also misinterpreted a joke which I still don't understand. Seanzie was like "Jay said my win record is really good on discord so I'm excited to get another win." And like if the joke is "I think I am very good jk I'm not actually vain" then okay, har har I guess but otherwise, I'm not sure what the joke was. Anyway, I took this as him actually saying that he was at least excited to go hunt wolves....and then he did no real hunting. So I took that joke or whatever to be false bravado coming from a wolf.
I was not super sure Seanzie was mafia until his wagon took off near EOD. At that point, CR, who had called out Seanzie early but his push was pretty weak, said that multiple players were shielding Seanzie, effectively poopooing the Seanzie wagon. While I didn't totally catch up, I only found one post from one player pushing back on Seanzie pressure. Then the Seanzie wagon took off and the Jack wagon dissipated and CR was like "I am now certain Seanzie is mafia." So I interpreted this as a wolf (CR) distancing early from his partner (Seanzie) and then indirectly and dishonestly defending that partner by overstating the amount other players were shielding his partner (still Seanzie) to scare me and others away from that wagon before settling on a bus by saying that he was now sure his partner was mafia.
At the same time, Pyxxy, who seemed to initially townread me, was pushing hard on me for reasons I'm not aware of. Granted, I'm missing like 6 pages of content from the middle of D1 but from my perspective, as soon as my town wagon got smaller and as soon as this wolf wagon (Seanzie's) started taking off, Pyxxy started hard pushing me for entirely unstated reasons. I still don't know why Pyxxy decided I was mafia. You can go back and check this. He didn't say in the last 5 or so pages of D1.
So in summary, Seanzie was not playing in his normal town meta and two players were playing very weirdly around Seanzie fmpov. So he looked a lot like a wolf.
Also, I started tallying up a lot of independent townreads as the day drew to a close (Creature, Dunya, Sig, Kate, Lucy) and Kate was semivouching for Roxy and Dennis (I don't want to put words in her mouth but she was pushing back against pushes at them) so if I believe my townreads and I'm willing to trust Kate and give Roxy and Dennis a pass (not that I really suspected either of them but they were in that range of players I'd be okay with yeeting if we didn't have any better ideas ya know), then there weren't a lot of places for wolves to hide so my overall view of the game really fit well with a Seanzie/CR/Pyxxy wolfteam.
@Neon wanted a recap of this too, iirc.
Do you disagree with that?
He wasn't being his normal townie self. All his pushes were limp in addition to low activity. Apparently, the later was because he was on a work trip or something? Ildk what was up with the former.hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:04 pm[VOTE: crichard] aubergine
explain
also @Scotty put me in a bucket I wanna ride
also also @Jackofhearts2005 explain the seanzie sus plx. I know I can re-read the thread but I don't wanna
lucy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:12 pm jack should always flip here and i think he might've tmi'ed sig town as creature or someone implied and had my general worldview be incorrect, either way i'm gonna do more town leadery stuff this cycle
i'm gonna reread d1 tonight
@CRichard what's your read on me/creature/dunya
Wow wow wow...........wow.Neon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:33 pmDid you know it's... very very very loosely... based on a true story?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:32 pm Did ya'll know there's a movie called Cocaine Bear and it's about a bear that does cocaine?
I do like a good twist on a familiar theme.Neon wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:23 pmDon't worry it's me because I'm simultaneously defending you as wolf buds and TMIing you town. Which is truly amazing.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:21 pm This is gonna be another one of THOSE games where Jack gets suspected for no good reason D1 and then continually slips out of it while certain players spend all their energy pursuing him and then eventually I manage to catch a wolf, at which point a couple players assume I bussed and then eventually, I get killed and stop paying attention to if the team wins or not.
So. I'll let ya'll know when I find a wolf.
Townlean on Pyxxy removed. DOOM town requires CR wolf. Falcon and Lucy should be reread D2. I think Falcon doesn't look w/w with CR though.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:40 pm Town
Jack
Creature
Dunya
Sig
Kate
Townlean
Lucy
Pyxxy
Doom
Falcon
Nullish
Chihiro
Neon
Dennis
JDizz
Roxy
Fingersplints
Wolves
CR
Seanzie
categories are in order but the nullreads are really close together
Let's find out together.CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:56 pmWould you still think I'm mafia with Seanzie if I move my vote to them?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:53 pmLmao.
CR + Seanzie. Maybe + Pyxxy but let's give him another day.
Just asking a friend.
This is nonsense. If you vote someone until they are the top wagon, then anything they do afterwards can be framed as such. That's not my fault and it has nothing to do with my alignment.CRichard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:49 pmYeah I'm not convinced Roxy is town. I only remember that wall post and they peaced out. It feels like they wanted to look like they're helping town.pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:41 pmLet's set aside real life for now.
Do you think Roxy is a viable counterwagon with 20 minutes to do?
How about joining me on a Jack wagon?
I think we agree that Jack does not sound like a mafia resigned to dying on D1. He's doing a pretty good job pushing Seanzie here as a miskill, and to prove that he (Jack) is trying, because that will get him townread (for now).
That's my read on the situation, at least.
If I'm wrong on this, I'm all ears.
I can still see Jack as mafia. As their solving happened after they were on top wagon, and that can easily come from mafia trying to self pres and avoid being lunched.
So you think Seanzie is town then? Am I understanding this correctly?
Lol oh yeah?pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:47 pmHmmmmmm. I acknowledge your valid and sensical reasoning. Doesn't help that I find your hand in the Seanzie wagon to be sus, though.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:42 pmCR indirectly defended Seanzie in what looks like a dishonest way (assuming there aren't in fact multiple players shielding Seanzie in the posts I haven't read) when he was an alternative to Jack/Neon and then was on board with yeeting Seanzie after the Seanzie wagon had already overtaken the Jack and Neon wagons.pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:38 pm"I would be unsurprised if CR and Seanzie are wolves together."Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:33 pm I would be unsurprised if CR and Seanzie are wolves together.
CR pushes Seanzie a bit early on with Creature (Creature way moreso) and Dunya gives him a single post of shit for it.
Fast forward half a day. Wagons are Jack and Neon. Reasoning for Seanzie being a wolf is still valid. CR says multiple players are shielding Seanzie. Maybe they're in the last few pages but it reads to me like "multiple players shielding Seanzie" is actually "Dunya made one post about not liking a push on Seanzie."
And now, after the Seanzie wagon has taken off in spite of CR's refusal to move there, now CR is sure Seanzie is a wolf.
Fucking reeks.
I think you are big wrong about this, but only because you posted like 3 minutes too soon.
CRichard seems pretty willing to push Seanzie here and I don't see how a D1 bus of Seanzie makes any sense for the wolves, when leaving Seanzie alone would keep him in the POE, and if he went full town/proved himself town in a worrying way, scum could just NK him N2 or N3.
Seanzie wolf here only makes sense if we've really caught him and maybe none of the other wolves are voting him yet. I don't feel the numbers yet to indicate that this is a bus.
Like, I agree with 100% of your observations and we noticed the same thing around the same time here. But I disagree with your conclusion that this could somehow be CRichard/Seanzie w/w
Current Seanzie voters: Jackofhearts2005, Kate, sig, Chihiro
