The Syndicate

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:48 pm Yeah, it was a fun game, it did what it set out to do, there's some fairness to "town lost cause town made mistakes" and also some fairness to "the setup didn't allow room for as many mistakes as it should have". It's kinda up to views on how many mistakes town can be allowed to make or moreover if a game goes mostly even who is allowed the victory (if town and mafia play at the same rate).

Yeah and I’m not sure what that number is.

12 vs 3 mountainous town gets 4 mislynches and needs 3 correct ones.
10 vs 2 mountainous town gets 3 mislynches (and a no lynch day) to get 2 correct lynches.

So I think generally speaking the goal would be for the town to be able to mislynch a little more than half the time.

There’s also the debate of if all multiball factions should have an equal chance to win or if the town should have a 50% chance to win and each scum faction has an equal chance of the other 50% to win. I kinda lean towards the later but that causes some problems where if you have 4 scum factions, they each only have a 13% chance to win by design.

Mechanics like alternating mafia kills or the madness meter mechanic can help standardize things somewhat but rubber banding and swing is a real problem.

Yeah, in almost every setup I make, I'm considering replacing characters like in Hogwarts and Fire Emblem.

Lol MafiaScum don't know nothing.

And then run tests assuming both worst case scenarios through N3 and see what that looks like.

Imo it is better to have mechanics that punish info dumping (wolf claim vigilante) or make it unreliable (janitor, fakeclaims, misdirection, cloaks, millers) than to just ban it.

Cause then you don’t have to deal with corner cases or accidental rule breaks.

Getting a red peak lynched without dumping is a skill but so is being able to evaluate two cases and choose the one that actually looks better, not the one that has info behind it you weren’t aware of. I think the later is more important.

I legit do not know the proper way to balance multiball and do not want to spend months crafting a game only for all factions to dogpile the town and the town never has a chance or for all factions to cross shoot and give the town an easy win. Will probably do some stuff to specifically avoid this.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:47 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:33 pm It’s also horseshit for a host to repeatedly repeat that I broke the rules and should have been modkilled and when I ask him when that happened his answer is “I don’t know.”

Well my post was a reply to Dom's complaint that mafia knew he was Agatha.

If you guys are mad mafia learned all your secrets, ask them how they did it.

I didn't modkill you because, like you said, I didn't even see where you broke the rules.

I just don't want to hear complaints about mafia picking out civs to roleblock and then you trying to convince me that you didn't reveal your identities. At some point you did. Maybe do a better job of hiding them next time.

I’m not mad the mafia figured out something.

I’m mad you’re saying I broke the rules when I didn’t.

It’s also horseshit for a host to repeatedly repeat that I broke the rules and should have been modkilled and when I ask him when that happened his answer is “I don’t know.”

Which doesn’t even cover Sabie winning coin flips.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:40 pm This game was a stomp. Mafia was much better than the civilians, as observed by how the civilians had an incredibly low scum lynch ratio.

That’s pretty well horseshit. The town had to eliminate Nutella and Luna and Sprityo to win. We lynched Michelle and she didn’t die. That’s four times the town lynched correctly that you aren’t giving credit for.

Town only mislynched three times in the nine days we actually had more townies than wolves in the game.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:35 pm Civilians needed nutella dead (not mafia).

Civilians needed Lunalee dead (not mafia).

Civilians needed sprityo dead (not mafia).

Civilians needed five more people dead.

That's eight.

That's too many.

I agree.

I’m not saying I deserved a win because my reads were pretty well junk except on Nutella.

I think there were too many antitown roles compared to town ones.

DDL: Town has 5 blocks so they could have stopped some kills and that’s balance.

Sure, but the town spent all game blocking me.

And if they had blocked some kills, that really would have frustrated the mafia, as I was highly frustrated at the labyrinth of ways to stop kills in Hogwarts that the mafia had to tiptoe around.

Basically, I’m saying this should have been a mountainous game.

Now excuse me. I have to get back to writing my multiball game with a bunch of blocks and a high scum to town ratio.

I generally agree with the philosophy that town should be able to lynch and wolves should be able to kill.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:12 pm Too many lynches had to go right, and civilians weren't afforded enough of them. DDL, how were the civilians expected to win?

"The Baron has a good reputation as a keeper of peace. He appears as civilian on investigations."

" [Construct Body]: The Baron has an abnormal body. He survives the first regular kill that hits him."

"Juliets used Take 5 Bomb to remove herself and Michelle from the poll."

When you ensure mafia can't be lynched or killed, mafia win.

I mean, that’s the problem with multiball.

You can look at this game and say that the town lynched correctly the majority of the game, did not take cult damage, did not take much sker damage and still lost.

But we’ve also seen mafias and indys cross shoot and let the town skip to a relatively easy win.

I played multiball for years and years and never saw it as crazy inbalanced until I started playing standard mafia.

I don’t remember the last time I saw a multiball game I thought was truly fair.

Maybe aim specific factions at specific factions? Just add more townies? Make each scum faction very small? Idk.

When did I hint Dom was Agatha?

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:02 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

I would have killed Michelle at night.

RickPerry.gif

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

Yeah. I assumed we were playing an ugly game of chicken where we lose if we vote Juliets, you lose if you vote Michelle and everyone loses if nobody moves.

Lol at Michelle attempting to convince Dom she wasn't scum up until the deadline when she had been mechanically outed like 3 phases prior.

Michelle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:14 am

Quin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:40 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:09 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:31 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:33 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:42 pm Actually...

@Dom @Quin your thoughts?

I’m down.
Why Michelle over Juliet’s?

Mostly cause Quin voted Juliets yesterday.

Are you sheeping Quin? You wanted to hung me for sheeping

i love your enthusiasm michelle, but the fact that dom and jack have townfirmed themselves to eachother is common knowledge at this point.

"townfirmed themselves to eachother" ...
I had a visible impossibility to play last day being silenced. If you ever saw scum self silencing please let me know.

Pretty sure I saw it yesterday lol.

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:33 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:42 pm Actually...

@Dom @Quin your thoughts?

I’m down.
Why Michelle over Juliet’s?

Mostly cause Quin voted Juliets yesterday.

Lol Juliets

Actually...

[mention]Dom[/mention] [mention]Quin[/mention] your thoughts?

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine I guess.

I’m still pursuing my wincon but at this point the game is solved and will be determined by secrets and night actions so I’m not really invested in trying to figure it out.

Everything important can’t be discussed. Everything that can be discussed is set in stone already.

See? Told you Juliets and Michelle are bad lol.

Makes me nervous but whatever. There’s no way we’re in a town Dys world imo.

Lol maybe one of the players with secrets silenced them.

Dom wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:32 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:01 pm I don’t really care which wolf we lynch as long as all three players I think are town vote together and ideally, the indy player votes with us as well.

So I’ll move to Juliets if Tony and Dom want to but I’m not splitting the vote 2 - 2 with 3 wolves and I think Quin needs to be voting with the town just as much as the town needs Quin voting with us.

I hope you're right.

I’m 99% sure I know the alignments of all players.

I’m trusting Tony’s best guess on Quin’s wincon.

If that’s right, there are roles we want to lynch more than others but those aren’t the same that Quin wants to lynch.

I don’t know how to communicate the right role to lynch without telling Quin and I don’t necessarily know the right one anyway. I certainly don’t know if Quin knows or if we’re right about his wincon or if the mafia will show up at all or if some secret powers change the vote math.

So I’m mostly inclined to just lynch in the wolf pool with 4 votes and if Quin is trying to eliminate sparks and he knows which wolf is a spark and he can win if townies are endgamed and he just turns on us, oh well.

Or we can assume the above paragraph is true and vote in a block for one of the other wolves and aim for an endgame that is townie nonspark, scum spark and Quin.

There’s a lot of stuff we just can’t talk about here since this is almost an entirely mechanical endgame and we can’t discuss roles or info or anything.

I don’t really care which wolf we lynch as long as all three players I think are town vote together and ideally, the indy player votes with us as well.

So I’ll move to Juliets if Tony and Dom want to but I’m not splitting the vote 2 - 2 with 3 wolves and I think Quin needs to be voting with the town just as much as the town needs Quin voting with us.

Should I ask why?

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:39 pm @Quin
Trust me and I’ll guide us to a joint win.

okay except i voted juliets

Okay.

[mention]Quin[/mention]
Trust me and I’ll guide us to a joint win.

Lol if we win cause Juliets is watching wildcards and Dys and Michelle can’t be bothered I will be pretty happy and take the underserved win. Better than the undeserved loss I thought I’d be getting.

Dom wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:25 am i think baddies are freaking out and jack is busy af

I’m just real invested in Mac and Nutella’s wildcard champs game.

Dom wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:25 am i think baddies are freaking out and jack is busy af

I’m just real I vested in Mac and Nutella’s wildcard champs game.

Lol at the entire player list being confirmed one way or the other.

Lol at townies who can’t lynch.

Lol at wolves who can’t nightkill.

Lol at Quin getting to decide who wins while pursuing his mystery wincon.

[VOTE: Dys] aubergine

Sorry I didn’t push Michelle harder. Sorry not sorry Sprityo gamethrew.

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:24 am 3 scum still alive and a missed nightkill?

oh yeah, this totally isn't a LYLO setup for Michelle.

Look at the roles we have left.

Understandable. Today was hilarious.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:02 pm So Jack, you said something about wanting to lynch the SK if you were a wolf, do have any thoughts?

Honestly, I thought Quin wouldn’t lie about sprityo being the SK. But then again, maybe I shouldn’t have read into that?

My thoughts are “my greatest strength as a townie is being hard to lynch and my greatest weakness is I’m about as good at catching poor play as I am at catching wolf play.”

I thought my logic was good. Townies following could think the same. Wolves would be happy to follow me.

You were the lone voice of opposition.

I still don’t know who is the townie between you, Jukiets and Dys. I have a hard time seeing you and Juliets teamed so Dys is probably a wolf. Not certain on that.

Oh. Yeah, Michelle is for sure today’s lynch.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:14 pm Okay I think the course of action today is to lynch Michelle

Yeah probably.

Really sorry about Sprityo. Really annoyed at Sprityo too.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:45 pm

Ceasefire

After days of fighting, the Wulfenbach Empire suddenly stopped attacking.

Was that some kind of ploy? Of course it was. But Mechanicsburg didn't have a choice but wait, as they had suffered too many casualities to risk attacking back.

No one died.


Day 8 Begins!

Huh.

Unexpected.

That's kinda stupid.

Michelle and Sprityo are probably equally lynchable. It's not like Owner can really split the vote and save Sprityo with an hour and 40 to go (indeed we've got 10 min left and the votes haven't moved).

I just don't get what she's doing.

Maybe flip Dys and Owner. Dys hates the POE that has all the wolves in it. But metawise, they seem more townie/sk than wolf.

Hardclaim Jon Snow.

Current reads:

Dys is the sk.
Owner is the wolf.
Juliets is the townie.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:26 pm Sorry if sprityo is the SK, I would rather try to lynch mafia.

Sprityo isn't the sk. Sk is the most engaging role in the game because you have to constantly worry about getting lynched, get to kill and everyone is a daytime opportunity of target. You have to have a plan to win at the end. You have to make it through the beginning alive.

If Sprityo was the sk he'd give a lot of shits imo.

If Sprityo was town, he'd give no shits.

He gives exactly enough shits to make one worthless post and not get roleblocked so that his wolfpack can use his night action.

He's a wolf.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:07 pm [VOTE: michelle] aubergine been beach busy

I'm surprised DDL isn't mad at me for not reading the writeups to see if the sk or mafia is making kills on nights with 1 kill.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:35 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:06 pmYou’re in your town meta but you understand I am damn near certain about 3 of the 4 town slots and it’s like

Owner: Let’s get down to business and solve
Juliets: Iso me and you’ll see I’m town
Sprityo: ...
Michelle: I’m not even pretending
Dys: Actually, all of the townies are wolves!!!!

How can I townread that?

How can you not think Michelle and Sprityo are baddies?

"How can I townread that?" What are you talking about? You have been town reading me all game. Now it's suddenly different because the ones you are trying to protect are the ones I think are scum. That's convenient. You know I'm town but have to argue otherwise now

You're ignoring my point.

I can metaread you as town all day but as the number of players I townread in a vacuum is larger than the number of town spots left, I have to start changing my reads to reflect that you, Owner and Juliets cannot all be town.

This isn't hard. Stop being flabbergasted by it.

Michelle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:45 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:33 pm

Michelle wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:02 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:48 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:08 pm SK should vote with town to lynch mafia today or else mafia will likely win.

The fact that we keep having one kill is really bad.

do you think the missing deaths would bring us infos? I

I’m concerned the sk is being blocked at a time they would probably be aiming for wolves.

The daily blocking looks like a plot hole in a story. From what i knew a RBer cannot block the same player twice in a row. Do you really think that the SK is RBed?

Not anymore I don't.

Quin wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:02 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:16 pm I know the answer is to actually iso Owner, Juliets and Dys and vote off Sprityo but I’m not looking forward to that first thing.

@TonyStarkPrime @Dom @juliets @Owner of a Lonely Heart @Dyslexicon

Can we agreed to lynch/bus Sprityo?

Sprityo not caring means he’s not the sk. Him continuing to post exactly once means he doesn’t want to be blocked. That means he has a partner to send in his action. If he was town, he wouldn’t know what to do with his power or care about getting modkilled given the amount of care he shows in his posts.

He is exactly a wolf. Can we all agree on that?

And if i am somehow wrong this is the best way to lose cause we can throw tomatoes at him and call him a game thrower and blame the crests.

this post is full of logic errors and the chances of you being scum have just skyrocketed but i am a man of my word so

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Lol thanks.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:22 pm I need to sleep soon.

I saw Dizzy’s comment on Dom. I’m also worried about how easily the wagon formed on juliets.

I think I might be ride or die with Dizzy. It scares me, but Jack was really frozen at the start of the game.

Epi died for a reason. I wish I knew what that reason was.

See, scum has to eventually reject my poe.

Anyone arguing with me is a baddie.

WE LIKE IKE!

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:31 am

Dom wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:10 am tony-- u gotta get on this ride if you want to win.

sorry I’m busy playing fire emblem — characters in SSB ultimate