The Syndicate

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:17 pm

rundontwalk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:13 pm Let's kill Epi

I would, but I don't have a real scum motive for Epi to be doing what he's doing. The story MacDougall shared earlier about a game where Epi demanded everyone randomize their votes (as an exercise) is another example of him doing this kind of bullpoop as a civlian. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if there was no data to be gleamed from his exercise that civ Epi believes isn't WIFOM infested. Just content and reactions and more reactions.

Iron_Dwarf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:44 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:19 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:22 am @TonyStarkPrime reads?

Dunya Town
JJJ scum
Epi ???
Colin null
Kyle Mafia but I can’t explain it
DDL maybe scum
Missing players scum
Nutella Town
Quin town
Kenway town
LongCon scumish

People were tossing around the word salad a lot earlier in the thread, all these comprehensive (rainbow) lists should be seen as salad too then to be consistent.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:42 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:40 pm Protip: players with lynch redirects usually don't get investigation roles.

Because that's broken ofc.

Protip: in an open game setup with info dumping allowed, people are going to be sharing info.

Because that's how it works ofc.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:41 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:39 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:15 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:56 am What is weird about rabbit being AWOL?

I figure it's indicative of him being a civilian, in that he wouldn't bail on a mafia team like that, especially a mafia team that he would have hand-selected, or was hand-selected for.

This is why I don't think we should lynch rabbit.

Why not DrWilgy? Or lapluie?

Didn't like rabbits draft behaviour. Nothing about the other two stood out to me.

I didn't like it either, he delayed the thread. Do you think it was a scum rabbit8, imposing sanctions on his teammates though?

Iron_Dwarf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:39 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:38 pm

Iron_Dwarf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:36 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:35 am

Iron_Dwarf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:32 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:17 am I'm on Page 34 and I hate the discussion about Epi's exercise. Hate it hate it hate it.

Can you guys be just a little patient and let him finish it so we can judge whether the results are good or not? If they are not you can vote for him all you want. But voting him now because you can't see the usefulness of something that has been advertized as having a hidden goal is moronic. Voting for him because he is risking being night killed is triple moronic. For all I know this exercise could end in day 1, when every active player answers it. Or he could be night killed, but then that means he was... a civ?

You don't lynch someone to prevent mafia from killing them, that's almost as bad as the idea that a civ has to resign themselves to get lynched.

If Epi is a wagon I will make whatever vote is necessary to prevent him from being lynched. Because right now my curiosity wants me to know how this exercise ends.

Epi's gambit just feels like unnecessary risk to me. Why are you so adamant on continuing with it? Just because you are curious?

Risk?

What does it risk?

Throwing away a really powerful ability on day 1 when we do not have any conclusive reads.

@Iron_Dwarf please explain why a lynch switch is such a powerful civ ability

If you have obtained good information about the alignments of different players you can prevent a misguided bandwagon forming on an innocent player.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:15 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:56 am What is weird about rabbit being AWOL?

I figure it's indicative of him being a civilian, in that he wouldn't bail on a mafia team like that, especially a mafia team that he would have hand-selected, or was hand-selected for.

This is why I don't think we should lynch rabbit.

Why not DrWilgy? Or lapluie?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:04 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:40 pm You've mistakenly put me in yellow

Why is this a mistake?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:35 pm Next, I made a quick ISO on TSP and I still think he looks better than Quin, Kenway or Kites (I guess he ties with Kites).

Can see myself voting for either of those 4 names.

So right now my algorithm for the lynch:

1- Save Epignosis
2- If Epignosis if safe, lynch one of the four above.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:36 pm Are you guys ready for the fireworks?

Here's a warmup. Fireworks-themed rainbow list.

dunya
ColinIsCool Dr. White JaggedJimmyJay Kenway Kites MacDougall rabbit8 TonyStarkPrime
colonialbob Dragon D. Luffy Iron_Dwarf Kylemii lapluie Long Con nutella Quin rundontwalk
DrWilgy Epignosis gwilikers6 sig sprityo

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:22 pm So guys what is the case on Tony?

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:54 pm OhhhhhhHHHHHHHH but he's my OTHER Pegasister! Gah!

Iron_Dwarf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:36 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:35 am

Iron_Dwarf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:32 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:17 am I'm on Page 34 and I hate the discussion about Epi's exercise. Hate it hate it hate it.

Can you guys be just a little patient and let him finish it so we can judge whether the results are good or not? If they are not you can vote for him all you want. But voting him now because you can't see the usefulness of something that has been advertized as having a hidden goal is moronic. Voting for him because he is risking being night killed is triple moronic. For all I know this exercise could end in day 1, when every active player answers it. Or he could be night killed, but then that means he was... a civ?

You don't lynch someone to prevent mafia from killing them, that's almost as bad as the idea that a civ has to resign themselves to get lynched.

If Epi is a wagon I will make whatever vote is necessary to prevent him from being lynched. Because right now my curiosity wants me to know how this exercise ends.

Epi's gambit just feels like unnecessary risk to me. Why are you so adamant on continuing with it? Just because you are curious?

Risk?

What does it risk?

Throwing away a really powerful ability on day 1 when we do not have any conclusive reads.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:03 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:33 pm I am less suspicious of Colin now though. I don't believe his argument, but I believe he believes it. Starting to feel like a Town/Town argument.

[VOTE: rabbit8] aubergine

Why?

linki: Wat?

sig wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:57 am PSA: I'm rescinding my town read on Mac and I think we need to find new topics as of page 40 we have like four people dominating the thread and all discussion while everyone else just kind of spins around in circles and is ignored.

gwilikers6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:48 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:44 am ISO'd nutella, not inclined to vote there. Couple of the suspicions seem weird, the biggest one is JJJ/Epi not interacting/reading her while they did others but I currently read them both as town so that doesn't make me suspect nutella.

Quin is next.

What does that part on JJJ and Epi mean? Why would that reflect on her at all unless they’re both scum, and if you read them both as town why mention it? Odd post

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:50 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:48 am

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:45 am is voting for an inactive your Day 1 lynch goal?

Not especially, but I wouldn't be upset by it. It's more of a good place to park my vote before I go ISO everybody (lol) to see where my head is at. This way if I end up not making it back to the thread my vote is on somebody I'm comfortable with eliminating even if they might not be my first choice. Make sense?

sure. What are your current GTH reads on nutella, me/jjj and epi/colin?

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:45 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:43 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:14 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:33 pm I am less suspicious of Colin now though. I don't believe his argument, but I believe he believes it. Starting to feel like a Town/Town argument.

[VOTE: rabbit8] aubergine

See reasons why you shouldn't vote for rabbit.

Link isn't working for me but I think I know the post you're referring to.

[VOTE: lapluie] aubergine
aubergine

is voting for an inactive your Day 1 lynch goal?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:14 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:33 pm I am less suspicious of Colin now though. I don't believe his argument, but I believe he believes it. Starting to feel like a Town/Town argument.

[VOTE: rabbit8] aubergine

See reasons why you shouldn't vote for rabbit.

Iron_Dwarf wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:34 am Dragon D. Luffy is still on my personal list of suspect people. But I will UNVOTE DRAGON D. LUFFY.

Epignosis is playing this strange game with us and awfully silent about the nr. 1 in votes. And insisting on a changing list of people he wants to lynch instead, while there is no momentum around either of those.

Therefore:

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:39 pm I'm sorry why are people assuming that epis data collection has anything to do with his backstory or his role at all? anyone could ask any of the questions he's asked and use the data to extrapolate something without a game power being involved. it's not like the troubador is known for being the only unit class in fire emblem that has S-class proficiency in excel spreadsheets, (that would probably be merchant or tactician)

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:31 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:28 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:20 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:16 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:15 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:14 pm Colin, what do you think scum Epignosis is trying to do in his exercise? What does he get out of it that warrants your non-participation?

he participated so this question has already been asked and answered several times over by various participants. Check Colin's ISO.

I did. The closest answer I found was that its feigning participation. I don't know why that would cause him to react like this.

I meant he participated; he told him that his picks would have been totally random (as several other players said). And Colin's argument wasn't about what scum Epi was trying to do in the exercise, it was about how Epi drew so much attention to himself as someone who was plotting scum's downfall so openly in the thread on Day 1 with an exercise he initiated.

This was always a bad argument though. Why should Epi not want to make himself a mafia target in a game where everybody's role is largely open information?

Without answering this, because I already said I don't agree with the logic myself, as can be seen from my gameplay, but I can see why someone would think that. Let me ask you: Why should you go out of your way to make yourself even more of a target? Give me a reason for that.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:20 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:16 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:15 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:14 pm Colin, what do you think scum Epignosis is trying to do in his exercise? What does he get out of it that warrants your non-participation?

he participated so this question has already been asked and answered several times over by various participants. Check Colin's ISO.

I did. The closest answer I found was that its feigning participation. I don't know why that would cause him to react like this.

I meant he participated; he told him that his picks would have been totally random (as several other players said). And Colin's argument wasn't about what scum Epi was trying to do in the exercise, it was about how Epi drew so much attention to himself as someone who was plotting scum's downfall so openly in the thread on Day 1 with an exercise he initiated.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:11 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:09 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:06 pm Man, I am not playing that game. You haven't come up with one good reason for why I should be lynched, just a blatant misreading of what I said. I don't owe you shit and if you kill me all you'll do is demonstrate exactly how unhelpful you are to the town.

I'm not blatantly misreading what you said, I just don't think it makes much sense.

This is to Epignosis. Last time I checked you weren't threatening to kill me?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:06 pm Man, I am not playing that game. You haven't come up with one good reason for why I should be lynched, just a blatant misreading of what I said. I don't owe you shit and if you kill me all you'll do is demonstrate exactly how unhelpful you are to the town.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:57 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:53 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:13 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:54 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:49 pm Y'all, this condescending stuff is not gonna fly, I don't need to be in this game.

I don't see what I'm not communicating here. It is really, really strange for a townie, no matter the phase, to come into the thread and advertise themselves alone as a threat to the mafia. If you really think you have an ace in the hole or a way to get a leg up, you want to disguise it innocuously. You don't want to say stuff like "if the Mafia knew what I was doing, they'd try to stop me." Well, now they know they have a good reason to try to stop you either way, so it's USELESS.

I don't intend to be condescending, so please don't take offense. I simply don't believe the argument you're putting forth here.

1.) Epignosis has a zero percent chance of being night killed on Day 1, so that we're talking about this at all is already goofy.

2.) Where is this brazen advertisement of being an imminent threat? Epignosis said he isn't going to tell you what he intends with his exercise because it would render the exercise pointless. Maybe it even is pointless. You haven't given it a chance though. Before it has ever developed, barely halfway into the day phase, you have discarded it as nothing. Why not give Epignosis time to do whatever he's doing before you make that decision? Maybe it's an hour to EOD and he still hasn't done shit. Then you can make this case more validly. It isn't that hard to fathom why this exercise might have value. First and foremost, what is the core source of this current dialogue? It's right in front of your face.

3.) The entire premise that a civilian inherently must play timidly to avoid night kills flies in the face of common sense. If you're an alignment cop, sure, be careful. Otherwise who gives a damn? The objective of this game is not to survive. It is to lynch mafia.

1) I don't understand why you think I'm worried about that. I know that doesn't happen. But what might happen if I came into this thread and said, "hey, I have a great idea to take down the mafia, but the mafia can't know about it." I'd probably be a target for the following night phase. Why not lay a little lower?

When the plan requires the participation of everyone else, how do you accomplish that while being quiet about it?

I feel like I've made this point three or four times. I think dunya made it too. You say something, literally anything other than "I've got a damn good reason for nobody to know" for reasons that I explain ... in the part of my post you are quoting.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:54 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:51 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:46 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:39 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:36 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:33 pm Obviously ridiculous example: "please everybody name your favorite animal"
*answers by some but not all*
"Hey Epi why did you ask this?"
"Well see anybody who mentions a predator is scientifically proven to be mafia"
*remaining players all name fuzzy herbivores*

Did those last players respond honestly or because they knew what he waa looking for?

come onnnnn, enough with the hyperbole. there's a lot of grey area than just black and white. One extreme is not another extreme. There's a lot of answers in between, is what Colin is trying to say, that don't make him look like he's plotting the Mafia's downfall one name at a time.

Did you mean to quote me here? I honestly have no idea how what you said connects to what I said.

I did.

The answer to "Hey Epi, why did you ask this?", doesn't have to be the exact reason and it doesn't have to be "I can't tell you or scum will see and then my great masterplan to take them out one by one would be ruined..." implying something of great magnitude, similar to someone who has a cop role and outs himself as the town cop Day 1. Like, why would you do that? I believe that was Colin's initial point against Epi (but he added some weird stuff to his argument which I'll ignore now because we're discussing this 1 point).

I still don't understand what you're trying to say, sorry. I'm getting the feeling Colin doesn't have a lot of experience with gambits so I was trying to explain them?

Wait are you saying Epi could have answered Colin's question better? How?

How were you trying to explain gambits??

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:46 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:39 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:36 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:33 pm Obviously ridiculous example: "please everybody name your favorite animal"
*answers by some but not all*
"Hey Epi why did you ask this?"
"Well see anybody who mentions a predator is scientifically proven to be mafia"
*remaining players all name fuzzy herbivores*

Did those last players respond honestly or because they knew what he waa looking for?

come onnnnn, enough with the hyperbole. there's a lot of grey area than just black and white. One extreme is not another extreme. There's a lot of answers in between, is what Colin is trying to say, that don't make him look like he's plotting the Mafia's downfall one name at a time.

Did you mean to quote me here? I honestly have no idea how what you said connects to what I said.

I did.

The answer to "Hey Epi, why did you ask this?", doesn't have to be the exact reason and it doesn't have to be "I can't tell you or scum will see and then my great masterplan to take them out one by one would be ruined..." implying something of great magnitude, similar to someone who has a cop role and outs himself as the town cop Day 1. Like, why would you do that? I believe that was Colin's initial point against Epi (but he added some weird stuff to his argument which I'll ignore now because we're discussing this 1 point).

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:43 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:33 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:27 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:22 pm @ColinIsCool the only thing I don't get is why you brought the nightkill into it when we were barely halfway into the day phase?

I straight up don't understand this question any time anybody's asked it. Because the things you do in the day phase affect how the mafia perceives you and if you get nightkilled on day 1, you don't live to day 2, and you can't contribute useful information/win the game? Is there a difference in fundamental game mechanics between this site and everywhere else in the universe Mafia is played that I'm not getting?

Because he still has ~24 hours to talk about why he asked his question and what he felt like he learned. He doesn't want to do so before everybody has responded because that skews what responses he gets.

Obviously ridiculous example: "please everybody name your favorite animal"
*answers by some but not all*
"Hey Epi why did you ask this?"
"Well see anybody who mentions a predator is scientifically proven to be mafia"
*remaining players all name fuzzy herbivores*

Did those last players respond honestly or because they knew what he waa looking for?

I guess I just don't see how those posts are going to be useful if the only thing that's happened is the lynch (I don't see how they're useful in the first place), and how when asking, I am hand-waved and given that "damn good reason" nonsense (which none of you seem to agree with, so, whateva)

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:36 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:33 pm Obviously ridiculous example: "please everybody name your favorite animal"
*answers by some but not all*
"Hey Epi why did you ask this?"
"Well see anybody who mentions a predator is scientifically proven to be mafia"
*remaining players all name fuzzy herbivores*

Did those last players respond honestly or because they knew what he waa looking for?

come onnnnn, enough with the hyperbole. there's a lot of grey area than just black and white. One extreme is not another extreme. There's a lot of answers in between, is what Colin is trying to say, that don't make him look like he's plotting the Mafia's downfall one name at a time.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:27 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:22 pm @ColinIsCool the only thing I don't get is why you brought the nightkill into it when we were barely halfway into the day phase?

I straight up don't understand this question any time anybody's asked it. Because the things you do in the day phase affect how the mafia perceives you and if you get nightkilled on day 1, you don't live to day 2, and you can't contribute useful information/win the game? Is there a difference in fundamental game mechanics between this site and everywhere else in the universe Mafia is played that I'm not getting?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:44 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:42 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:39 pm Mac used post silly shit at Skyler

Skyler became confused

He hurt himself in his confusion

Skyler fainted

ColonialBob go!

ColonialBob used tunnel

But it failed

ColonialBob used eyeroll emoji

It's not very effective

Mac used post in Pokemon references

It's not very effective

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:39 pm Mac used post silly shit at Skyler

Skyler became confused

He hurt himself in his confusion

Skyler fainted

ColonialBob go!

ColonialBob used tunnel

But it failed

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:40 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:36 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:32 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:19 pm You have asked me or wondered aloud now three times about what I am doing. I haven't answered you. There's a damn good reason for that. Were I to answer, the mafia now know what I am doing. Thanks, but no thanks.

I mean, why say this? Whether they know what you're doing or not, you are advertising yourself as a threat to them, saying that it's their best interests to stop you from figuring this stuff out. Why would a townie be so confident they wouldn't be nightkilled for that sentence alone?

No thanks. You're telling me that Epignosis should be broadcasting his intentions, whatever they may be, thus neutralizing their potential, all so he can avoid a night kill which is by the numbers already unlikely?

I hate this reasoning.

No. He could say something like, "I think it'd be useful to see what people say." Or he could say "There might be patterns in who's picked." If he has a real strategy here that needs time to pan out, he shouldn't be daring the Mafia to kill him for it by saying he has a "damn good reason" to hide his intentions.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:58 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:46 pm Jackofhearts2005 - are Shaman's role reveals announced publicly in the thread by you?

yeah, if JOH won't answer, I feel Tony is lying about this. A town role that publicly outs more civ secret roles than scum roles by the host, in the thread, is...weird? But is he lying for self-preservation?

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:44 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:40 pm so you might as well be asking people ITT "what's your favorite kind of sandwich?"

I wouldn't open that particular can of worms on this forum, ColinIsCool.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:46 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:00 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:33 pm I like Dr.White because I've never seen him before and he's telling everyone to get out of his way and DDL for getting stuck in before and more than anybody else despite the nature of the draft. There's nobody I dislike.

Sorry, what are you talking about? You mean when I took a while to give someone a role because I hadnt read the rules?

When I think about early content the first "real" contributors I recall are you and rdw. I don't know where the latter is now, but you stand out as wanting to get things done.