The Syndicate

Changed my votes to Boo and Colin. That’s the current state of my reads.

Linki: Rej said a lot

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:22 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:20 pm Guys wanna vote jack with me

What what do you think of his claim that he cannot be lynched

that's a running joke across several games.

Hidden JOH mechanic

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:23 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:21 pm For example the one where he quotes sloonei's post about ddl and just says "I like this." Regardless of sloonei's alignment I think that kind of blatant empty sheeping of an idea is usually more town minded.

Devil’s advocate, isn’t that super easy to fake?

Yes but scum is aware that that’s the kind of thing that gets you scumread if it’s a play pattern. Town doesn’t have to be cognizant of that. Some scum aren’t cognizant of it, some town are, but I agree with Nutella.

Not catching up but I did see the @ post. I subscribe to the school of “Rej is scum if Drago says so” school. So that’s that. Also he had a few meh posts day 1 but I saw some things I liked while I was around day 2. I’m willing to change that.
DDL was giving me scum vibes. I don’t know why. I’ll change it just cause it doesn’t look like we’re going there and I’m not building the case.
Sloonei is probably town but my only scum experience is on a game where he replaced out so I might be biased into thinking he’s just opposite me. someone noticed that I thought Nutella was also probably town. LC just voted me but I tend to want to sort out LC and Jack since I’ve played with them the most. Though I don’t currently get vibes off Jack which could be a bad sign but could also be the fact that I’ve been around like zero. I’m back and forth on Boo, some posts that could go both ways. Colin exists; I tend to think for the players I’m less familiar with and don’t interact with that it’s a bad sign if I notice them but don’t have feelings one way or another. I’ll maybe read that ISO if I have time in an hour or so. That’s all of the players that I know are in the game.
Helpful? Please react, give me posts to read, just @ me so I can feel useful.
The last time I did this I got attacked for randomly leaving players out and I was like “I literally wasn’t cognizant of their existence”.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:57 am I do not know that you are prone to engage in meta discussions.

Fair we’ve played together I think just twice recently.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:48 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:23 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:15 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:13 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:10 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:08 am I’m here for fifteen minutes. Please say things I can react to so I can feel like a participatory member of this game.

You’re scum for lying low yesterday.

This is a WIFOM trap and I don’t like it.

Interesting. Explain.

There is basically no normal response I could give to the post that I (and presumably you) wouldn’t be able to read and create an argument for in either direction. Now you’ve played with me a few times and so I’m not doubting that as best as I try to hide it I’d give off a sort of meta tone read but I don’t think it’s consistent.
So like:

General list of defenses

Angry response
apology
Shrug off
Meta defense


I can’t say which of these I’d be more likely to give as scum or town. Probably depends more on my mood and like whatever comes to mind first. There are players who I think I would have a better idea of what they’d do but that can be manipulated too.

I don't get this post and I kinda think it's scummy

Do you not get it as in you think the logic is unclear or do you not understand why it is the way it is
cause I feel a compulsive desire to expand on the former if necessary and couldn’t care less if it’s something else.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:44 am

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:18 pm How do phone users play mafia even

By the seat of our pants.

It’s easy I think but my computer is a piece of trash and I hate it so phones just seem more efficient.
It also slows me down which means I have to structure posts a little better than the stream of consciousness things I could say otherwise.

boo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:36 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:33 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:26 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:23 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:15 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:13 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:10 am

You’re scum for lying low yesterday.

This is a WIFOM trap and I don’t like it.

Interesting. Explain.

There is basically no normal response I could give to the post that I (and presumably you) wouldn’t be able to read and create an argument for in either direction. Now you’ve played with me a few times and so I’m not doubting that as best as I try to hide it I’d give off a sort of meta tone read but I don’t think it’s consistent.
So like:

General list of defenses

Angry response
apology
Shrug off
Meta defense


I can’t say which of these I’d be more likely to give as scum or town. Probably depends more on my mood and like whatever comes to mind first. There are players who I think I would have a better idea of what they’d do but that can be manipulated too.

So what do you think of me for asking the question?

It’s an interesting, if not good, question. You’re a better townie than me but have a more similar playstyle as town than the average player. I have a penchant for WIFOM questions when I’m town. So I’m not going to straight up call it scum, but because you didn’t build a stupid case (yet I suppose) it looks a little better.Therefore, NAI on the first question with slight town read on the follow-up direction.

Wut

Question = bad
Why is the question bad? Scum use the question to build stupid cases and then yell at me for getting into a meta discussion which Sloonei knows I’m prone to do.

Why could the question be good? I would ask it because I think there’s value in the long run in trying to understand the psyche of each player even if I don’t actually think much could ever be ascertained in this game. That’s a possible town motivation or a possible scum motivation.

Why is it not bad here? Well at the time of posting Sloonei hadn’t made a stupid WIFOM argument about it yet.

Does that clarify?

I suppose it’s stupid to say that it’s bad for Sloonei to ask a WIFOM question and then continue in that line without saying the question is inherently scum, but I think you can ask the question and ascertain info that doesn’t lead to a WIFOM argument.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:58 am My positive interpretation is that Tony responded to my question very assertively. Scum Tony might have fallen into any of those traps he listed.

My negative interpretation is that Scum Tony is clever enough to come up with an assertive response to a question like that. He doesn’t want to appear soft, so he throws the question back in my face.

Typing it out now, I actually think I feel more strongly about the latter. Interesting.

I think town Tony is more likely to not want to appear soft I can do a self analysis if you want but it’s all WIFOM.

boo wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:04 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:58 am My positive interpretation is that Tony responded to my question very assertively. Scum Tony might have fallen into any of those traps he listed.

My negative interpretation is that Scum Tony is clever enough to come up with an assertive response to a question like that. He doesn’t want to appear soft, so he throws the question back in my face.

Typing it out now, I actually think I feel more strongly about the latter. Interesting.

Other than the part where he listed those traps, I got no meaning out of those posts he made. Like you said, the posts weren't soft. But. Assertive I don't agree with. They felt like the absolute barest minimum to be involved without actually getting involved. Because he used those posts to justify votes that... I have no idea how he got to.

I mean it was a random post philosophy discussion. I live for that. But anyone who attempts to find game relevant meaning will probably come up empty handed.
How did I use those posts to justify votes?

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:31 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:41 pm

Spoiler: show

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:25 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:39 am

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:55 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:54 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:53 pm I think Rej is fitting what little I understand of his town meta. Drago I haven't seen enough from yet to feel strongly about.

I feel like i have seen more proactive version of Dragomir in previous games. But that includes Day 1 of Inception, when he was mafia.

True.

I might hop on just for funsies/so that my vote matters more than it does now and bc I don't really see a reason for Dom to be lynched

That sounds like a weak motivation to jump on the drago wagon which you also don't feel strongly about.

If I couldn't see the poll as I'm making this catch up I would get no indication that you suspect drago more than Dom. Or that you suspect dragon enough to give up on the speed thing you were pushing before.

Sorry, the speed thing you were moaning about before. Because the only thing you did about it was vote speed early on poorly explained grounds when spend the whole day crying "why you aren't voting speed with meeee" to people.

Wow

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:01 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:54 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:27 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:23 am really though jack could have let us grill creature for a bit before nullifying it. INTERESTING

??? What is this

What do you think it is?

I honestly don't know. Explain to me why you didn't want to hear a townread on creature this early. Disappointed that he's not going to be an easy target of suspicion?

yeah

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:55 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:44 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:01 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:54 am

What do you think it is?

I honestly don't know. Explain to me why you didn't want to hear a townread on creature this early. Disappointed that he's not going to be an easy target of suspicion?

That 'townread' was Jack neutering an early-game source of conflict, suspicion, and actual content by appealing to meta. It's the beginning of the game. Everything should be as volatile as possible.

But it's not a conflict if there isn't disagreement. Stating a townread should be fine for that, if you disagree you can continue on that topic.

you're

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:56 pm Speed discouraging people from contributing their townreads is bad.

right

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:03 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:58 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:55 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:44 pm

That 'townread' was Jack neutering an early-game source of conflict, suspicion, and actual content by appealing to meta. It's the beginning of the game. Everything should be as volatile as possible.

But it's not a conflict if there isn't disagreement. Stating a townread should be fine for that, if you disagree you can continue on that topic.

I assumed Creature would disagree, and then I could say he is biased and defending himself, and we could whirl down a spiral of blame and recursive arguments and THEN Jack could stop us.

And people like you would comment on it and be all like "how scummy" and we'd have a lot to work with.

I guess that's happening anyway now, so thanks. [VOTE: nutella] aubergine

No. This is total bullshit lmao. I don't see the scenario you're describing ever happening like that, and look we are still talky about this so clearly someone successfully generated content. Your assessment of my role in this makes no sense though. Are you just openwolfing?

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

I haven't

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:58 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:32 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:03 pm oh, i think nutella is town. don't lynch her.

speedchuck is another option for me. i feel something intentional and careful in his posts and tone towards others. don't like it.

I agree with half of this post

The other half is like, what. Why.

So you don't suspect me? What did you gain from that exercise? I don't see you commenting on reactions or whatever, you seem to have just moved on.

given my reasons

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:23 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:21 pm

Rej wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:53 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:24 am

Is the first half of this post a sarcasm? Because it seems like one to me.

tbh I am 50/50, it's true that Dragos overall behaviour in mafia changed, from game to game he gives less a fuck, that is reasonable if you busy yourself with other things, but still a mafia drago wouldn't make himself such an easy target I feel, tho town drago tends to do help town in any kind of form

Those two fifties have completely opposite meanings

[VOTE: Rej] aubergine

So?

for suspecting speed

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:15 pm Speed isn't thinking critically on enough levels he's just calling things scummy that aren't really. He's scum

ever at all,

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:26 pm basically he's calling rej scum for not having a coherent stance on drago. I don't have a coherent stance on drago either so idk why that's sus

you got me

This post is trash.

There are actually only four 'reasons' in there, despite the ridiculous number of posts that nutella has supposedly implicated me in.

1. Speed is discouraging townreads. Bullshit. We've covered that in earlier posts.
2. Speed didn't fully follow up on his supposed pot-stirring. Somewhat fair. I am a busy man. All I have time to do is stir the pot, and rarely can taste the noodles.
3. Speed's read on Rej is just for him not having a coherent stance on Drago. Bullshit. It was about his say-nothing appeasement of an answer, that only makes sense if he's trying to play both sides of his statement. Weasel words.
4. Speed isn't thinking critically enough to make good scumreads, so he's scum. Bullshit. I shouldn't have to explain why this is bullshit. I've gotten scum player of the year before, and I get accused of not being SMART enough about my reads to be town in this game?

Nutella tunneling me is NAI but it does grate after a while.

0. Sure I admit I slightly exaggerated with the quotes, not all of them really have contentful accusations but they're pretty much all relevant in some way.
1. Have we? I don't think I was ever properly convinced that what you did with Jack was not discouraging townreads (or since apparently it wasn't a townread in the first place, discouraging Jack from providing input on a player being discussed) -- you said some rather incoherent stuff about keeping things volatile, and I didn't understand why Jack stating his disagreement was counter to that.
2. Yeah that was a weaker point, I'm not super invested in it but I still don't really get what you were doing with the vote on me and subsequent backoff
3. I can understand the perspective that Rej was kinda weaselly about not having a real opinion to state, but I maintain that the general wishy-washy-ness in itself can be townie.
4. I'm not trying to say you're not being smart. It was more that you were trying to capitalize on what could be an easy reason to set someone up for suspicion (maybe banking on the hope that other players wouldn't see through to how shallow it was). (this was again I'm pretty sure in relation to the idea that Rej was scummy for being wishy-washy, which you've qualified a bit more here tbf.)

Sigh I’m a sucker for a good hyperbole take back.
Unvote: Nutella
Vote: Rej

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:26 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:23 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:15 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:13 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:10 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:08 am I’m here for fifteen minutes. Please say things I can react to so I can feel like a participatory member of this game.

You’re scum for lying low yesterday.

This is a WIFOM trap and I don’t like it.

Interesting. Explain.

There is basically no normal response I could give to the post that I (and presumably you) wouldn’t be able to read and create an argument for in either direction. Now you’ve played with me a few times and so I’m not doubting that as best as I try to hide it I’d give off a sort of meta tone read but I don’t think it’s consistent.
So like:

General list of defenses

Angry response
apology
Shrug off
Meta defense


I can’t say which of these I’d be more likely to give as scum or town. Probably depends more on my mood and like whatever comes to mind first. There are players who I think I would have a better idea of what they’d do but that can be manipulated too.

So what do you think of me for asking the question?

It’s an interesting, if not good, question. You’re a better townie than me but have a more similar playstyle as town than the average player. I have a penchant for WIFOM questions when I’m town. So I’m not going to straight up call it scum, but because you didn’t build a stupid case (yet I suppose) it looks a little better.Therefore, NAI on the first question with slight town read on the follow-up direction.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:16 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:11 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:09 am

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:01 am I'm done doing your homework for you sloonei. Have some ketchup with your paprika

speedchuck responded to your big post. Do you have any thoughts on that?

I am still inclined to disagree with the one point you made about his Rej suspicion. He articulated the same response that I did earlier. I have an easier time grasping your point about his handling of Creature (though I’m unclear on the exact context of that whole exchange. Please regurgitate it for my helpless baby bird brain). I’ll get around to developing my own independent read on speed eventually. I don’t have the mental energy for it.

Can you see an angle where speed is town?

Nutella, given exactly this post please tell me if you think your two voting targets are w/w.

I think it's possible, yeah. Should this post specifically make me think otherwise?

I mean I could see how people could read this post as non w/w. I wanted to know if you did.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:15 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:13 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:10 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:08 am I’m here for fifteen minutes. Please say things I can react to so I can feel like a participatory member of this game.

You’re scum for lying low yesterday.

This is a WIFOM trap and I don’t like it.

Interesting. Explain.

There is basically no normal response I could give to the post that I (and presumably you) wouldn’t be able to read and create an argument for in either direction. Now you’ve played with me a few times and so I’m not doubting that as best as I try to hide it I’d give off a sort of meta tone read but I don’t think it’s consistent.
So like:

General list of defenses

Angry response
apology
Shrug off
Meta defense


I can’t say which of these I’d be more likely to give as scum or town. Probably depends more on my mood and like whatever comes to mind first. There are players who I think I would have a better idea of what they’d do but that can be manipulated too.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:12 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:05 am

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:59 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:56 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:51 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:36 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:35 pm

Hey, what did I do?

Killed Dom.

I believe that would make me the vigilante. Why would the Mafia kill Dom after he came very close to getting lynched?

I didn't kill anyone.

I didnt mean you were literally the triggerman. But Omar (more likely than a vig, imo) bought into your Dom suspicion and killed him for it and that didn't work out, which makes me double down on my belief in your insincerity on the case against Dom.

.....ohhh

so you think LC is mafia who tried to bait a vig/3p kill onto a townie?

hmm my gut is to super not like this. Maybe too w/w to be w/w but explaining ideas like this is something I generally see as scum.

can you clarify what you're referring to here? who are you implying could be w/w? me and boo? or am I misreading

Yeah you and boo. Don’t think it’s likely. Scum responding to wrong town arguments in a sort of clarifying manner is a common tactic but based on later interactions it seems like you were genuinely asking a question.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:10 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:08 am I’m here for fifteen minutes. Please say things I can react to so I can feel like a participatory member of this game.

You’re scum for lying low yesterday.

This is a WIFOM trap and I don’t like it.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:09 am

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:01 am I'm done doing your homework for you sloonei. Have some ketchup with your paprika

speedchuck responded to your big post. Do you have any thoughts on that?

I am still inclined to disagree with the one point you made about his Rej suspicion. He articulated the same response that I did earlier. I have an easier time grasping your point about his handling of Creature (though I’m unclear on the exact context of that whole exchange. Please regurgitate it for my helpless baby bird brain). I’ll get around to developing my own independent read on speed eventually. I don’t have the mental energy for it.

Can you see an angle where speed is town?

Nutella, given exactly this post please tell me if you think your two voting targets are w/w.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:05 am

boo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:56 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:51 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:36 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:35 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:27 pm [VOTE: LC] aubergine the other one.

Hey, what did I do?

Killed Dom.

I believe that would make me the vigilante. Why would the Mafia kill Dom after he came very close to getting lynched?

I didn't kill anyone.

I didnt mean you were literally the triggerman. But Omar (more likely than a vig, imo) bought into your Dom suspicion and killed him for it and that didn't work out, which makes me double down on my belief in your insincerity on the case against Dom.

Oh... okay, fair enough. I did get Dom killed, from that point of view.

I like this and his response to Sloonei but from a style perspective ellipses are bad. ( That’s a joke I can’t defend myself from bad faith attacks right now. )

I’m here for fifteen minutes. Please say things I can react to so I can feel like a participatory member of this game.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:59 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:56 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:51 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:36 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:35 pm

boo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:27 pm [VOTE: LC] aubergine the other one.

Hey, what did I do?

Killed Dom.

I believe that would make me the vigilante. Why would the Mafia kill Dom after he came very close to getting lynched?

I didn't kill anyone.

I didnt mean you were literally the triggerman. But Omar (more likely than a vig, imo) bought into your Dom suspicion and killed him for it and that didn't work out, which makes me double down on my belief in your insincerity on the case against Dom.

.....ohhh

so you think LC is mafia who tried to bait a vig/3p kill onto a townie?

hmm my gut is to super not like this. Maybe too w/w to be w/w but explaining ideas like this is something I generally see as scum.

hi someone tell me who to kill any why. Thank you for your time.

I don’t have much time right now. Can someone (ideally more than one person) give me two sentence summary of the events of the day thusfar?

I’ve also never seen the wire but I have way too much to do to see the wire

(Obligatory note: it’s finals period for a lot of students and so I’m sure I’m not the only one who has about 10000 more words and like 120ish bars to write before I can adequately give this full attention)

Fair