The Syndicate

Sorry everybody, I may be a little more sparse the next few days. I am currently transitioning from one job to another which means for a few days I am working two jobs. Then come Monday I am going to Houston to spend a month there in training.

That said, I have not caught up but I need to go to bed, because it's back to the grind tomorrow. Meh. I will make some time tomorrow afternoon.

Ok, I follow you now. Sorry for my confusion. I think Rico is someone who has slid by me most of the game because I know so little about his play style that it took me a minute to catch up with you. That's something to think on. May require a re-read of him as well.

I misunderstood what you were saying at first until you quoted those roles, sorry. So do you even think Rico is lynchable currently? I mean if he is Rem, he would never be killable; if he is Misa he could pass his note and not be lynched.

Wait, I'm confused. You think Mata and Rico are Misa and Rem?

Three.

I slept on it and I have really come down to three things.

1. I don't trust Epi. He is not a detective, I feel certain of that. And while he is certain in his belief, I don't trust his agenda.

2. His math is based on assumptions. Assumptions that we do not have the answers to and therefore his case is guesswork at best.

3. FZ sounds far more genuine to me than Mata.

I am going to vote mata.

Here is my dilemma. I don't trust Epi. I don't think he is kira (or at least not an active one), but I don't think he is working for the detectives. I think he has his own agenda. However, I also think he really and truly believes he is right about FZ. He might not be, but he believes he is. And while his math seems sound, it's based on some assumptions. And until now, I have dismissed it because you feel really genuine. But the thing is FZ, when you claimed an unlynchable role, it looks like a preemptive strike. Like you are trying to hold onto a death note as long as you can. As if you can give it up and be unlynchable for a few days I would bet, but you don't want to have to.

Mata, what troubles me with you is two fold. You have listed some people in the past as your trusted players. it feels an awful lot like buddying up. Additionally you lately mentioned something that can't be discussed and I was looking at the roles to see what I thought of this statement. I don't know how I feel about it. And you fit the profile of what I believe a Misa or Mikami player might do. Blendy, not too many posts, but not too few.

I could see placing my vote on either of these two today. I will have to decide before I go to work tomorrow afternoon. I'll read some tomorrow morning and see where I land, there are a couple others I want to read up on because I'm not sure how I feel, but they are secondary. We will see how much time I have tomorrow.

Turnip Head wrote:

FZ. wrote:What do you think of llama? Did you read my points about him?

I read them, and I think you made some good points about how he's been more one-track-mindish than normal. He's always like that, but it doesn't feel as authentic here. Is that the same vibe you're getting?

I would want to question Llama more about this, but it seems he's been busy the past few days. He's someone that I would really need a full lynch cycle to deliberate on, so I'm cautious of trying to start a movement against him this late into the Day. You definitely made me think to put him back on my radar though, I had been ignoring his behavior as "typical Llama" behavior for a while.

See I feel like llama's game feels off to me. Despite having a lot of posts, it feels like his usual bluster and bravado is dialed back. It feels like he doesn't want attention. Which is why I suspect him. Most likely of a role like Misa or Mikami who are more vulnerable. And FZ, i know you feel like everyone is ignoring Llama but I'm not, which is why I mentioned him earlier. You aren't crazy, I feel like something is off in llama land too.

Turnip Head wrote:

juliets wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:It's cool how people can justify their votes for Bea while ignoring the underlying context of why she's asking for votes... really well done guys.

TH I haven't voted for bea and I am trying to figure out the underlying context. She seems desperate to tell us who she is but it seems like that is just to show boo up. I know as a civ i have been that fed up before but before i put my finger on that button I realize it's my duty to try and make it through so I won't hurt my team (unless its already a done deal). What exactly is the underlying context you are talking about?

That Bea has had enough of Boo's biased attack on her playstyle and just wants to show Boo up, so basically what you said. I could be wrong, but honestly how does this look like a baddie ploy? She's too committed for this to be a bluff.

I'm more talking to the people who have already voted for Bea, and did so almost gleefully. MM and Boomslang. MM was already on my list, Boomslang has quickly found his way onto it.

I've been trying to figure out what to make of today and I am in the same place as you. I suspected MM already, but Boom had not been on my list before this. He is now though... I won't be voting Bea today, but I think this has made me feel like I was right to have MM on my list. I'm willing to put a vote on him with you today TH.

Ok today has gotten weird real fast.

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Epi, oh how I go back and forth regarding Epi. He sounds like he is making such sense. His logic seems sound, but then there are things here and there that just don't make sense for a detective. I can't get over the fact he drew attention to thinking SVS and boo were Ray and Naomi.

I see no harm in stating what I once thought was true but no longer believed. It could be construed as anti-detective if I had blurted out my opinion of them at the time that I held it, but that isn't that happened: Once I found evidence to contradict that perspective, only then did I mention it.

No, see, I'm not buying this. If you had dismissed the idea, there would be no need to even mention that you ever thought this. It only serves to paint a target on their backs.

Spacedaisy wrote:Transparency, he said. Why? Since when is Epi concerned with transparency?

Now, now- that's framing things out of context. I was asked what you just mentioned above: Why in the world would I state my belief that S~V~S and boo were Ray and Naomi? My "transparency" comment was to reveal why my position had flipped. I staved off suspicion because I thought S~V~S was (to me) defending boo without thread reasons, but then things happened that went against that view. So the "transparency" was in making it clear why I changed my mind at the time.

There would have been no need of transparency if you had never mentioned the fact you used to suspect it but changed your mind. But you did. I don't think I am framing things out of context at all. I think you used the transparency answer to cover that you wanted to draw attention to them.

Spacedaisy wrote:Then he drew attention to Elohcin's suggestions for who L is. Again, why would you draw attention to this?

Because it's evidence that formed part of a larger case. I don't see why drawing attention to what a Kira sympathizer said in the thread as her swan song is naughty. Did Eloh have info on L? No. Were her suggestions about L phrased in a clandestine manner? No. Were her suggestions consistent in thought? No.

You basically waved a big flag and said, "Hey Kira, maybe you should be looking at these people that Elohcin basically was telling you to kill." I would consider that suspicious, yes. Especially given you seemed to do it more subtly earlier.

Spacedaisy wrote:He started the ball rolling on that topic. It really has me questioning if he was trying to give suggestions to the active Kira.

Ha, no. Telegraphing your kill suggestions through the thread like that would be sloppy. Of course, sloppy doesn't mean people aren't doing it: I think they are.

Spacedaisy wrote:He has made it clear that he is yotsuba, but is he Higuchi?

I have done no such thing.

I don't believe it Epi. You are a better player than to say that, and you have never been concerned with bein transparent before. And you are not a sloppy player. No, I think you said what you said on purpose. I may not be certain of your role, but I am certain you are not a detective. Your game play says that clearly.

Ok, now to post my thoughts. Basically this game is unusual in the fact that the various kiras all act for the most part as inidividual SKs. The problem is that three of them are pretty much vanilla until they get their chance with the death note. For higuchi, he is not killable until he gets that note, but once he does he becomes vulnerable. For Misa and Mikami they seem to be mostly vulnerable. Misa can forfeit her death note and be unlynchable but it is only for three lynches and says nothing of NKs. Light is the one who is vulnerable when he holds the death note, so he would benefit from passing the note in that regard.

My thoughts have been, how would these circumstances affect the kiras' game play? For example, how would Light play it if he knew passing the note would make him invincible? Or how would Higuchi play, knowing that he is invincible now, but once he gets the death note, he loses that. And Misa and Mikami, most vulnerable of all the kiras, how would they play as part of a team when they don't know who their teammates are?

If you are correct DH, in the theory that the death note has been passed that would mean that Higuchi is now vulnerable. Assuming Higuchi is alive anyway and that it did not pass to mikami instead. Working under this assumption, have we seen anyone's behavior change? I personally think Higuchi would play a balls to the wall game while he was still invincible, hoping to draw fire, maybe a lynch or even a NK attempt, so we would see its a waste of time. Then hope later no one will want to take the chance of wasting a lynch or kill down the road once he is vulnerable.

Mikami and Misa are the two most likely to play a classic baddie game. I would bet that if there are blendy kiras, they are the ones. They would want to attract the perfect balance of attention; too much and they get lynched, too little and they accidently get killed by their own teammate.

Light is the question mark. He can keep that note in someone else's hands for the majority of the game if he is lucky and not have a care in the world. I guess I expect this to be a consistently aggressive player, probably trying to get attention on themself in order to protect the active Kira.

Now, as far as who I suspect...

TH fits Higuchi, he has been trying to draw attention from the get go and seemed to want lynched. Could this be because he wants to make people think, "why waste a lync on someone who is unlynchable?" Is he vulnerable now?

Epi, oh how I go back and forth regarding Epi. He sounds like he is making such sense. His logic seems sound, but then there are things here and there that just don't make sense for a detective. I can't get over the fact he drew attention to thinking SVS and boo were Ray and Naomi. Transparency, he said. Why? Since when is Epi concerned with transparency? Then he drew attention to Elohcin's suggestions for who L is. Again, why would you draw attention to this? He started the ball rolling on that topic. It really has me questioning if he was trying to give suggestions to the active Kira. He has made it clear that he is yotsuba, but is he Higuchi?

DH, I can't ignore the fact that you are making a ton of assumptions about Kira's actions and then trying to direct people to players who fit that bill in your opinion. But as Epi has pointed out, you ignore your own descriptions in some cases, such as with FZ. You've decided she is good, so despite the fact that she fits your description better than anyone else, you are pushing for anyone but her.

Bea, I was not seeing the Bea stuff until the post that pointed out some of her flip flopping. At the moment I read that I wished I handn't already voted for Made, but I almost missed the vote last time I voted from work and I didn't want to risk that again. I can't say that I would vote someone entirely on the basis of flip flopping because sometimes civs change their minds between quoted posts, influence from in thread activity can make a huge difference, so pulling quotes out of context may have some impact on the impression they give. I would be watching her, but I'm not sure I would vote her at the moment.

Llama, you have taken a back seat, you are talking but you come across to me as much less aggressive than normal. I really don't know what to make of you this game.

FZ. I felt you were genuinely frustrated, but baddies get frustrated too, so I can't use that as the only reason to dismiss you as a suspect. Coupled with Russ's view on you and how DH has behaved, it has you on my suspect list.

Two other players who have been discussed but I think warrant watching are boo and Metalmarsh. Boo fits the profile of someone who has been aggressive all game, and MM seems to be almost trying to make us think he is a shinigami, which would make him unlynchable. Making us less likely to lynch him.

That is where my brain is right now. So you see DH, my silence was more about observing player behavior without influencing it with my beliefs about how the various kiras might play it.

Linki: DP....

I felt the same way when I read that juliets. I am at work and it is very difficult to post on this phone, so I will say more when I get home in a few hours but I just want to say now that I have definitely been paying attention and I think it is poor detective work on your part dh to equate number of posts to amount of attention. I think if you look at my posts they will show I have been keeping up very well despite the fact Ihave has a lot of stuff going on in rl and have still been contributing a fair amount, so I don't understand my inclusion on your list. I post my thoughts when I feel like I have something to contribute, I don't just post to up my post count or to hear myself talking.

Frankly I am surprised by this stuff coming out the woodwork about FZ. And I don't know that I buy it. She feels genuine to me. So since i need to vote before going to work because voting from work is a pita, I'm putting my vote on Made.

Votes Made.

Turnip Head wrote:

Black Rock wrote:If I counted the times I've been screwed by out of control forces...

Story time!

Once upon a time in Dead Like Me mafia, I was the serial killer role, and I had a unique twist. On Night 1, I had to choose all my targets for the next 4 nights. If all 4 of those kills went through, on Night 5 I would get to kill 4 players at once.

With a bit of luck, all my 4 kills went through, and I was looking forward to the big payout.

On Day 5 however, LC was getting lynched. He was a baddie, and with his last dying breath, he outed me as the serial killer. He was completely bluffing, he had no idea what my role was. He was talking out of his ass completely. But he said it with such certainty that most players believed him even though he was lynched as a baddie only moments later.

There was a civvie role in the game that could "steal" a player's power and use it for themselves. The player with this role was bigsimpsin, and I think somehow everyone knew he was this role? and of course he picked me that night. I had just been labeled a serial killer, why wouldn't he?

He killed 4 people at once, confirmed that I was the killer, and I promptly got lynched right after LC.

I was so sad.

I remember this. I was so impressed that you picked four kills that went through. Sorry TH!

Not even someone that would possibly be an inactive Kira. L's message gave me the impression she may become Kira down the road. Not the worst lynch result though.

Linki: mm, what? You are unhappy a Kira sympathizer is dead?

Ok, gotcha Epi. Thanks for clarifying.

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

boo wrote:Well, Eloh it is.

Was it just me, or did Boomslang's autopilot comment raise any eyebrows though? Setting up the next lynch before the current one is even over does not inspire trust.

boo wrote:I think potential BWT voters should vote llama. But I'd also like to point out to potential BWT voters that they're a day behind, so if they lynch BWT today, then maybe they'll get to llama tomorrow. That would work.

I'm voting for boo.

And boo to L, even if you are right. I hope your feet cramp up and you choke on a macaroon.

Epi I don't understand this post. You are voting boo for being inconsistent? Is that what I am understanding?

And in protest.

Protest of what?

Epignosis wrote:

boo wrote:Well, Eloh it is.

Was it just me, or did Boomslang's autopilot comment raise any eyebrows though? Setting up the next lynch before the current one is even over does not inspire trust.

boo wrote:I think potential BWT voters should vote llama. But I'd also like to point out to potential BWT voters that they're a day behind, so if they lynch BWT today, then maybe they'll get to llama tomorrow. That would work.

I'm voting for boo.

And boo to L, even if you are right. I hope your feet cramp up and you choke on a macaroon.

Epi I don't understand this post. You are voting boo for being inconsistent? Is that what I am understanding?

So I was caught in linki before I had to run out and pick up MP. I was in a rush to get my post up and vote in case I wasn't back in time. So I did not see ELo had actually said she was trying to vote L, lol. Glad I voted her for sure now. That being said...

Russtifinko wrote:And why is nobody talking about the fact that LYNCHING TH PUT ANOTHER DEATH NOTE IN CIRCULATION????

That seems like something people might want to notice. And, since only one type of being has Death Notes (I'll give you a hint - it rhymes with "Hello, Mommy"), that's more evidence that lynching TH again would be a gigantic waste of time.

What? Did I miss something in the roles that says trying to lynch a shinigami puts a death note in circulation? I'm not sure where this is coming from.

No one answered my question regarding what the case was on Made and DH encouraged someone to make a case on him, so I went back and read his posts. This only takes into account things he has said, not anything SB that others have said about him though. That would require a word search of the thread that I don't have time for at the moment. Here is what stood out to me.

Made wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote: High posting could be beneficial as it would probably force Kira to be more active, thus eliminating the likelihood of a baddie flying under the radar. But in the downside it could encourage people lynching high posters which seems counterproductive to the spirit of the game.

holy crap good call.
I think this right here is the best possible situation for us. While L/Light sound interesting, baddies can't fly under the radar if they need to talk to be able to save their teammates.


that all said i need to read the rest of the thread, but i think this is a very solid point.

His first post he jumped on something I said while ignoring the downside of what I said. In fact I had said I thought it was a bad idea, but he latched onto it as if it were a good idea.

Made wrote:I think I'm going to go l/Light just because hopefully the system will lead to Chaos and confusion that will lead to mistakes.

Yeah, this makes no sense. And his explanation vote followed...

Made wrote:

boo wrote:

Made wrote:I think I'm going to go l/Light just because hopefully the system will lead to Chaos and confusion that will lead to mistakes.

Because when people think in-thread chaos and confusion, the first thing that comes to mind is a civvie advantage.

It does for me

I personally live longer when know one has a clue what's going on, and the same seems to be true for a few other players. It give players a more even footing skill wise, and rewards deduction and communication in thread. Inconsistencies with logic are put on blast, and mafia is killed for such inconsistancies. This is even more true when mafia are just as unfamiliar with the system as civvies are. The situations DH listed being examples of this. Sure the list won't be public knowledge, but when people aren't being lynched that are winning the poll by popularity, questions will arise-- difficult questions.

Confusion does not usually yield logic, so I don't think this explanation made much sense. I am going to out this down to Made feeling like people find him illogical and confusing so he was hoping to be less likely to get lynched straight out if everyone was stuck in confusion.

Made wrote:Ok, I'm going to be suicidal, but as a jumping off point, isn't reasonable to assume that L, Light, and Ryuk voted the Light/L option on the day 0 poll?

As cued from the fact that DH is currently(or previously depending on when i post this..) cooking something, I'm going to flesh out this idea abit....

DharmaHelper (4), thellama73 (5), Made (9), Turnip Head (13), birdwithteeth11 (14), Long Con (15), AceofSpaces (21), Boomslang (22), Spacedaisy (25) 31%

OK so that's 9 people. It should be noted that the tide did in fact turn quite hard After SVS and Epi placed their votes, so let's put all the above in context

DH- I'm not even going to quote anything for him, He put together a very strong argument for L/Light which he fleshed out completely with Boo. While DH is one of the better players Ik, i could see it being very difficult to create a solid case while knowing the ins and outs of the system and know he has an advantange. He would be forced to carefully ignore all damning elements of the system for civvie, which i'd assuming would cloud his ability to make a sound post. If any player could pull this off, it would be DH, but I doubt it

thellama- the post that sticks out to me in my head for him in particul-- Oh. ok so i went back to look for the post where Llama flip flopped

thellama73 wrote:I can see both sides of it. I'm happy with my vote, but won't be disappointed if normal lynch wins either.

but holy crap did Th flip flop....... not sure if i even want to continue this post...... I'll look at the rest, but damn...

This post interests me because though he himself voted for the Light/L option he was going after those voters. What better wa to look like you were just plain a misguided vote than look at those who voted the same way you did, especially if the tide seemed to be rolling that way at the time. Looking blendy from where I sit.

Made wrote:And Re Epi:

Epignosis wrote: My major issue with this post is that you are adding win conditions to the civilians. "They also need justice to prevail" is not an objective win condition.

MovingPictures07 wrote: All I have to say in response is: The options are written the way they are for specific reason.

Responses from MP like the above make me think that "Justice prevail" and "utopia" might have meanings in the grand scheme of things. That said, I think we shouldn't speculate too much on what those could possibly mean.

Ok this is weird. Why would we not want to speculate on what a caddie is trying to achieve? I mean, ifhe more we know about their goals and their mechanics, the more information we can gather based on in thread behavior, votes, night actions, etc. Or am I just thinking about this wrong?

Made wrote:Catching up, page 30/45. But I felt the need to comment on this.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Looking back Epi, you suspected FZ because of her absence as well, saying she is probably bad with SD. But FZ has since contributed quite a bit (though she did miss the lynch), and you never updated your suspicion to something current. If you did, then I can't find it.

I don't share your assessment of FZ. I think she has since posted a lot, but the content is not what I associate with good FZ. Good FZ. has a certain tenacity and assurance. She is a focused civilian, one that has proven dangerous to Mafia. I am not seeing that here.

We're definitely not on the same page. Whether or not it's constructive, FZ has contributed of late. Whether you think she's bad or good, you put her in a tough spot by suspecting her for 'being absent'. Same with Russ. Their continued absence will increase the suspicion of them. Also, if they do get around to talking, they'll be under the magnifying glass for being a previous target. It's a lose-lose situation for them.

Now, I do agree with your current observations of FZ. I also earlier missed this post on her, so your vote is more clear to me.

Now, if I may ask. Why do you think it is not foolish to vote someone on Day 1 who does not post on Day 1, but you still wanted to wait until Russ posted to vote for him?

Here's the thing-- and call this whatever you want, even if i were saying this with ulterior motives i'm still right-- I would be in the perfect position if i were a baddie this game. In the last 8 pages I read catching up, i was mentioned once, and it was a joke in passing. We need to make sure players like me or FZ seen above aren't slipping through the cracks. I'm not saying to vote low poster, but maybe general mindfulness of low post to content ratio?

Continuing to catch up...

This is either a ballsy move by a baddie or Made just is not bad. I mean, he brought HIMSELF a up because his name hadn't been mentioned. I have literally never seen someone do this before.

I assume this is the biggest bulk of the case against Made. i can't see why anyone would agree to this plan. If you ask me, this post makes him look like a yotsuba more than anything else. He apparently feels no affiliation to either side. Very weird.

Made wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Made wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Elohcin wrote: And I am confused as well about Yotsuba. Do they need to be deaded for the detectives to win? And Kira wins when the detectives are gone (so says page 1) but what about Yotsuba for them. MP can you clear this up?

This is all I can say regarding each faction's win conditions:

Detectives (12)

Detectives win when all killers (Kiras) have been stopped and justice has prevailed.

Yotsuba Group (7)

While Higuchi possesses a Death Note, every night all members of Yotsuba decide on whom Kira should kill. They do not share BTSC by default. Members of Yotsuba Group win by ??????.

Kira and His Sympathizers (7)

Unlike typical baddie teams, these roles do not all share BTSC by default. See individual roles for publicly known BTSC information. Kira and His Sympathizers win when Kira has eliminated the Detectives and subsequently starts his utopian New World.

IF a win condition is fulfilled, is the game over?

Very good question.

Not necessarily, no.

ok, This is going to ruffle a lot of feathers.....

What if we try to kill all the Kiras, then kill all the detectives? This way, the Detectives win, then most of the Kira supporters win.[/No one answered my question regarding what the case was on Made and DH encouraged someone to make a case on him, so I went back and read his posts. This only takes into account things he has said, not anything SB that others have said about him though. That would require a word search of the thread that I don't have time for at the moment. Here is what stood out to me.

Made wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote: High posting could be beneficial as it would probably force Kira to be more active, thus eliminating the likelihood of a baddie flying under the radar. But in the downside it could encourage people lynching high posters which seems counterproductive to the spirit of the game.

holy crap good call.
I think this right here is the best possible situation for us. While L/Light sound interesting, baddies can't fly under the radar if they need to talk to be able to save their teammates.


that all said i need to read the rest of the thread, but i think this is a very solid point.

His first post he jumped on something I said while ignoring the downside of what I said. In fact I had said I thought it was a bad idea, but he latched onto it as if it were a good idea.

Made wrote:I think I'm going to go l/Light just because hopefully the system will lead to Chaos and confusion that will lead to mistakes.

Yeah, this makes no sense. And his explanation vote followed...

Made wrote:

boo wrote:

Made wrote:I think I'm going to go l/Light just because hopefully the system will lead to Chaos and confusion that will lead to mistakes.

Because when people think in-thread chaos and confusion, the first thing that comes to mind is a civvie advantage.

It does for me

I personally live longer when know one has a clue what's going on, and the same seems to be true for a few other players. It give players a more even footing skill wise, and rewards deduction and communication in thread. Inconsistencies with logic are put on blast, and mafia is killed for such inconsistancies. This is even more true when mafia are just as unfamiliar with the system as civvies are. The situations DH listed being examples of this. Sure the list won't be public knowledge, but when people aren't being lynched that are winning the poll by popularity, questions will arise-- difficult questions.

Confusion does not usually yield logic, so I don't think this explanation made much sense. I am going to out this down to Made feeling like people find him illogical and confusing so he was hoping to be less likely to get lynched straight out if everyone was stuck in confusion.

Made wrote:Ok, I'm going to be suicidal, but as a jumping off point, isn't reasonable to assume that L, Light, and Ryuk voted the Light/L option on the day 0 poll?

As cued from the fact that DH is currently(or previously depending on when i post this..) cooking something, I'm going to flesh out this idea abit....

DharmaHelper (4), thellama73 (5), Made (9), Turnip Head (13), birdwithteeth11 (14), Long Con (15), AceofSpaces (21), Boomslang (22), Spacedaisy (25) 31%

OK so that's 9 people. It should be noted that the tide did in fact turn quite hard After SVS and Epi placed their votes, so let's put all the above in context

DH- I'm not even going to quote anything for him, He put together a very strong argument for L/Light which he fleshed out completely with Boo. While DH is one of the better players Ik, i could see it being very difficult to create a solid case while knowing the ins and outs of the system and know he has an advantange. He would be forced to carefully ignore all damning elements of the system for civvie, which i'd assuming would cloud his ability to make a sound post. If any player could pull this off, it would be DH, but I doubt it

thellama- the post that sticks out to me in my head for him in particul-- Oh. ok so i went back to look for the post where Llama flip flopped

thellama73 wrote:I can see both sides of it. I'm happy with my vote, but won't be disappointed if normal lynch wins either.

but holy crap did Th flip flop....... not sure if i even want to continue this post...... I'll look at the rest, but damn...

This post interests me because though he himself voted for the Light/L option he was going after those voters. What better wa to look like you were just plain a misguided vote than look at those who voted the same way you did, especially if the tide seemed to be rolling that way at the time. Looking blendy from where I sit.

Made wrote:And Re Epi:

Epignosis wrote: My major issue with this post is that you are adding win conditions to the civilians. "They also need justice to prevail" is not an objective win condition.

MovingPictures07 wrote: All I have to say in response is: The options are written the way they are for specific reason.

Responses from MP like the above make me think that "Justice prevail" and "utopia" might have meanings in the grand scheme of things. That said, I think we shouldn't speculate too much on what those could possibly mean.

Ok this is weird. Why would we not want to speculate on what a caddie is trying to achieve? I mean, ifhe more we know about their goals and their mechanics, the more information we can gather based on in thread behavior, votes, night actions, etc. Or am I just thinking about this wrong?

Made wrote:Catching up, page 30/45. But I felt the need to comment on this.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Looking back Epi, you suspected FZ because of her absence as well, saying she is probably bad with SD. But FZ has since contributed quite a bit (though she did miss the lynch), and you never updated your suspicion to something current. If you did, then I can't find it.

I don't share your assessment of FZ. I think she has since posted a lot, but the content is not what I associate with good FZ. Good FZ. has a certain tenacity and assurance. She is a focused civilian, one that has proven dangerous to Mafia. I am not seeing that here.

We're definitely not on the same page. Whether or not it's constructive, FZ has contributed of late. Whether you think she's bad or good, you put her in a tough spot by suspecting her for 'being absent'. Same with Russ. Their continued absence will increase the suspicion of them. Also, if they do get around to talking, they'll be under the magnifying glass for being a previous target. It's a lose-lose situation for them.

Now, I do agree with your current observations of FZ. I also earlier missed this post on her, so your vote is more clear to me.

Now, if I may ask. Why do you think it is not foolish to vote someone on Day 1 who does not post on Day 1, but you still wanted to wait until Russ posted to vote for him?

Here's the thing-- and call this whatever you want, even if i were saying this with ulterior motives i'm still right-- I would be in the perfect position if i were a baddie this game. In the last 8 pages I read catching up, i was mentioned once, and it was a joke in passing. We need to make sure players like me or FZ seen above aren't slipping through the cracks. I'm not saying to vote low poster, but maybe general mindfulness of low post to content ratio?

Continuing to catch up...

This is either a ballsy move by a baddie or Made just is not bad. I mean, he brought HIMSELF a up because his name hadn't been mentioned. I have literally never seen someone do this before.

I assume this is the biggest bulk of the case against Made. i can't see why anyone would agree to this plan. If you ask me, this post makes him look like a yotsuba more than anything else. He apparently feels no affiliation to either side. Very weird.

Made wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Made wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Elohcin wrote: And I am confused as well about Yotsuba. Do they need to be deaded for the detectives to win? And Kira wins when the detectives are gone (so says page 1) but what about Yotsuba for them. MP can you clear this up?

This is all I can say regarding each faction's win conditions:

Detectives (12)

Detectives win when all killers (Kiras) have been stopped and justice has prevailed.

Yotsuba Group (7)

While Higuchi possesses a Death Note, every night all members of Yotsuba decide on whom Kira should kill. They do not share BTSC by default. Members of Yotsuba Group win by ??????.

Kira and His Sympathizers (7)

Unlike typical baddie teams, these roles do not all share BTSC by default. See individual roles for publicly known BTSC information. Kira and His Sympathizers win when Kira has eliminated the Detectives and subsequently starts his utopian New World.

IF a win condition is fulfilled, is the game over?

Very good question.

Not necessarily, no.

ok, This is going to ruffle a lot of feathers.....

What if we try to kill all the Kiras, then kill all the detectives? This way, the Detectives win, then most of the Kira supporters win.

This is weird too... Here he seems like he is talking against voting for TH or Russ:

quote]

Made wrote:Random thought during AP Lit: While I kinda agree with it, isn't it kinda a cough out to vote TH and Russ? gonna check something....

Yeah, what i figured, there's a few ways this could go down. TH and Russ very easily could be any of the 4
L-Town
Kanzo Mogi – One of the most dedicated members of the Japanese Task Force, but also one of the most reserved(Russ? It would fit into the idea of a high poster to have an alternative low poster maybe?). (Secrets)

Hirokazu Ukita – Perhaps the most emotional member of the Japanese Task Force, Ukita is nonetheless absolutely determined to catch Kira, and does not hesitate to demonstrate passionate, admirable bravery.( Th Demonstrating passion by posting every other post?) (Secrets)


Light's Squad
Teru Mikami (X Kira) – As a devoted worshiper of Kira, Mikami has a strong sense of justice and feels evil absolutely must be punished. He adheres to a very strict, daily schedule. (Russ only posting at a certain time each cycle.)

Hitoshi Demegawa – A very greedy man who feeds off of publicity, Demegawa is director of Sakura TV. If L dies, Demegawa asserts himself as Kira’s spokesman and constantly rallies for Kira supporters to participate in various violent acts of protest.(TH posting often to gain publicity?) (Secrets)

Yeah, ik it's speculation, but if we're considering killing them, then we should have something a little more substantial than "oh he's acting funny"

Made wrote:thought the lynch was in an hour...... ok.

I really am not trying to stay under the radar, I'm just trying to get into the game. If i were trying to stay under the radar, i wouldn't talk about how lost i've been this game.

For real, I'm trying. Before you vote for me please read this post.

Made wrote:

AceofSpaces wrote:Has Made posted at all during this day cycle? I don't think he has.

he has not

AceofSpaces wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

AceofSpaces wrote:Has Made posted at all during this day cycle? I don't think he has.

Can you blame him?

No, but it is a little weird to see 22 players alive and only 12 posting. Are puzzles really that scary?

it's not the puzzle, it's just the size of the game. I'll probably continue saying this until everyone dies(or people lynch me for saying it everytime I post ), but this is a fast moving, and intimidating game.
That said, I want to contribute, so here's contributions:

Epignosis wrote:I am going to take the initiative and vote DharmaHelper now. I think he's disingenuous, and I think he's gone after me for sloppy reasons.

having not seen the show, i don't get the "episode 18" stuff you're referring to, but didn't you just say you thought DH was a detective, or at least might be?

Epignosis wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Yeah... that puzzle was a metic butt-ton of work. Y'all should be celebrating the puzzle solvers, not accusing them of trying to distract or seem helpful. That thing was a nightmare.

I disagree.

i disagree sorta kinda not really.... I see puzzle solving as a neutral activity from anyone who

Epignosis wrote:How many times will DharmaHelper have to fuck you over before you learn when he is a liar?

Largest ping i've had all game. The strongest memory I have of Epig is from Monty python( or was it doctor who....) where he was killed, brought back to life and immediately began developing strong arguments against Enrique. This post, and post like it don't feel like much of an argument, more of a just mudslinging under the guise of baddie hunting.

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:My ears are ringing.

Also, I hate to do something over simplified but Russ' very strict daily schedule is making me increasingly paranoid and unless someone changes my mind between now and tomorrow afternoon I am probably going to vote for him.

I agree something weird is here, but i don't think voting is the answer, yet anyways...

Turnip Head wrote:I can think of exactly one person who looked like he was trying to appear helpful regarding the puzzles. It's my buddy Made:

Made wrote:A tip that might help for future puzzles: Phrasing is often similar in roles specifically, so looking for patterns might help.

This was after we were already balls deep in the puzzle. This post screams "Look at me trying to help!" more than any posts from the genuine puzzle solvers.

Well I mean this was exactly what I was doing... Didn't have time to catch up at the time, so i tried saying something so I wasn't 100% useless/absent


Because these are fun (and easy):Pretty pink!

Spacedaisy wrote: I. Hate. Decoding. I suck at it and I don't bother trying. I'm grateful for the work you all did, and now we can focus on the lynch.

Epi: other than a couple small things, I've found him to be the most logical voice in the thread. i don't see myself voting for him.I disagree, I'd say most logical goes to Bea. For me, the aggression i've come to know from Epi is there, but i find myself unable to get where he's coming from a lot of the time.

DH: I think DH and Epi are tunnel vision where each other are concerned. If one of the two is bad I would believe it of DH before Epi, but I don't see it here either.Vice versa for me. In GoC I figured he was bad very early on, but he's playing a very different game here. Just gonna keep watching this one

TH: I have flipped back and forth so often, but it comes down to this... If any of the people who seem to be implying that they are or simply playing like they are Shinigami, TH is the one I most believe could be pulling the wool over our eyes. He is a much more masterful player than this and even though I used to think he was wanting to be lynched, I've come to the point now where I think it was a ploy and am ready to lynch him.The highest poster theory is an interesting one. I don't remember who suggested it, but there might be merit here, and if we need someone to lynch, it's always a place we could go, along with Russ.

Bea: I have not seen anything that stands out as bad from bea to me, but it is true she would kill SVS. I don't know about LC though. I just don't feel confident in a vote for her yet. I've agree with Bea the most by far this game( also she and Ninjabloop are really good at cutting through my bs) so iunno. I'm keeping my eye here because i know she wasn't lynched in Monty Python till people decided to start lynching the most trustworthy people

Made: what is the case for Made? I think I missed this one.Tldr: I show up in thread right before the lynch happens, say something shifty and leave. I'm a short enough read where you can decide if that's true or not on your own

Russ: his absence yet again makes me willing to vote him. It was fishy the first time around and is again now. have we had other silencings so far? Or could this be his role mechanic for some reason?none that i noticed. I'm thinking role, but not sure what it could possibly mean

I need sleep. Night guys.

DharmaHelper wrote:Made I need a hug my brother help me out

you know the faces that the smiles make before they hug kind make me feel a little off

And now it's 2:30 am and I have school tomorrow ... I'll be back before the lynch.

After thought: I can't remember who it is who gets pinged really hard when i post all sarcastic like. This post will probably light them up like a Christmas tree.
something something Smiley Theorem

I just need more time.

But then in this above post he seems to imply Russ or TH would be a good place to look at placing a vote. Flip flop, for no particular reason I could see.


All that said, I could see placing a vote on Made at some point because he seems rather slippery. However, I am still going to place my vote on ELo today. Because of L's message. As others have pointed out, it may give us an inidication of how much certainty L has when he receives info. This could affect how I view his messages going forward.

Votives ELo.

FZ. wrote:Also, at the risk of looking more suspicious in the eyes of the oh so smart ones, I think that ignoring TH is just rude. Whatever his role is, he's doing what he needs to do to win the game. You want to vote for him, do it. But rolling your eyes and asking people to ignore him is something I don't think should be done. I don't think I would enjoy playing the game if I were in his shoes. Just my two cents

I agree completely.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:My opinion on L's Elo statement is pretty similar to Epi's. Given MP's stance on info dumping, why would he create a role that can freely into dump with no consequences? I just doubt that this role has a mechanic that allows for gaining information with absolute certainty. However, he obviously believes it to be true with a lot of confidence and it is good reason to give it consideration.

linki @BR and Rico: knowing MP, I doubt he would do that. Very much. He always has these percentage chances and opportunities for misinformation. I would be surprised if he had L able to gain info with absolute certainty.

Here's a thought. Since L does not need Kira Sympathizers dead, maybe he has better "insight" in catching them. Those characters are not as slippery as Light or Misa.

I don't understand what you mean, could you clarify for me?

My opinion on L's Elo statement is pretty similar to Epi's. Given MP's stance on info dumping, why would he create a role that can freely into dump with no consequences? I just doubt that this role has a mechanic that allows for gaining information with absolute certainty. However, he obviously believes it to be true with a lot of confidence and it is good reason to give it consideration.

linki @BR and Rico: knowing MP, I doubt he would do that. Very much. He always has these percentage chances and opportunities for misinformation. I would be surprised if he had L able to gain info with absolute certainty.

Matahari wrote:Apologies to hosts and players, I am sick and out of it. I will try to catch up today when I'm not sleeping.

feel better wifey!

I have to vote now. I'm thinking after considering the options that I am going to vote for TH ad week. I don't feel comfortable thinking he might be a baddie pulling some really ballsy play to appear like a shinigami. Voting TH now.

I. Hate. Decoding. I suck at it and I don't bother trying. I'm grateful for the work you all did, and now we can focus on the lynch.

Epi: other than a couple small things, I've found him to be the most logical voice in the thread. i don't see myself voting for him.

DH: I think DH and Epi are tunnel vision where each other are concerned. If one of the two is bad I would believe it of DH before Epi, but I don't see it here either.

TH: I have flipped back and forth so often, but it comes down to this... If any of the people who seem to be implying that they are or simply playing like they are Shinigami, TH is the one I most believe could be pulling the wool over our eyes. He is a much more masterful player than this and even though I used to think he was wanting to be lynched, I've come to the point now where I think it was a ploy and am ready to lynch him.

Bea: I have not seen anything that stands out as bad from bea to me, but it is true she would kill SVS. I don't know about LC though. I just don't feel confident in a vote for her yet.

Made: what is the case for Made? I think I missed this one.

Russ: his absence yet again makes me willing to vote him. It was fishy the first time around and is again now. have we had other silencings so far? Or could this be his role mechanic for some reason?

I need sleep. Night guys.

Wow I go from one airport to another and the first part is solved, that was cool reading actually. Good job guys!

Good lord I was gone for most of the day and this place went sideways. I have one major thought after the last seven pages or whatever...

zeek wrote:Forgot to reply to this due to EPIc posts.

bea wrote:

zeek wrote:My problem with Epi right now is that MM's case was good. It showed how inconsistent he has been and his responses have done little to convince me he's good. His tone, deflated and dejected, has however. So I'm back and forth on him.

Then we have Snowman. His responses don't seem genuine to me and he doesn't actually seem frustrated by all this, half-heartedly NO U'ing his detractors.

Still a fair amount of time before the lynch ends but, honestly, these guys may be aligned with Kira but I really doubt either is one.

If not them, who?

I don't know, I feel the Kira would be playing a very simple game not really drawing attention to themselves, so they could be hiding in half the players in the game. Based on aggressive and odd behaviour, I'd tentatively cross off a handful of players from the Kira list.

You could not be more wrong in my opinion. Act batshit crazy and it will make people think you are one if those bad Shinigami that no one can kill or an inactive Kira. No one wants to waste a kill on someone they don't need to or can't kill and why would a Kira waste a kill that he may need on someone he can't kill? The outrageous players are the ones who have a handle on this game right now. It's the rest of who are still trying to figure it out. Commence the crazy I guess...

I don't have time to properly catch up until later tonight but I feel like I can get behind a snowman lynch so I voted there

Omg, this thread tonight it's cracking me up.

juliets wrote:Spacedaisy, hopefully you'll be here in time to answer this question: do you think Zombrella and llama are right about Snowman?

llama, I'm feeling the same way though it's not because he mistakenly said I'm a Yotsuba. Don't you think he would fight harder if he were civvie?

lol boo, maybe so, maybe so.

I don't know. I don't think Zombrella is reading bad because of her belief snowman is. This is totally in line with what I have seen of her personable, trust me on that. Snowman is a tricky one and I keep waffling back and forth about him, but I'm prone to take her read of his intentions with a little more consideration than most.

Epignosis wrote:If I no longer believe it to be true, then there is no risk of painting a target. Maybe you disagree with that

If you no longer believe it to be true, why even bring it up in the first place? Why do you need to say, I thought they were these very specific roles but I think I was wrong now. I wouldn't even have said anything about it because it is drawing a useless speculation about them. Especially with those two particular roles. I just don't see why you would say it.

I am catching up on the eight pages you all did while I was spending time with family today and I realized im going to have to write this post as I go so here we go... Sorry if I am channeling MP this evening...

Zombrella vs. Snowman: I can understand the suspicion on snowman for not answering accusations with enough seriousness, but I guess I did not find him suspicious for that because what little I know of him in person both he and Zobrella struck me as light hearted people, a lot of fun. His responses seemed in character to me for someone who was approaching it like a light game, possibly not realizing how it would be taken. Zombrella's sudden excitement about her sudden suspicion of him is very in character for what I've seen of her. I know he has pulled the wool over her eyes in games of deception so when she goes after him for believing he is bad she is going to do it with excitement because that seems to be her personality to me. That said, I think she is going to be more paranoid about him than anyone else in the game, but she may also be able to read him better than anyone else in the game. And frankly his answer seemed fairly non-committal. He didn't want to hitch his wagon to her defense, he as playing it pretty cool. Yeah he defended her against that one suspicion but he wants to see her defend against something real before he decides on her guilt. Totally distancing himself from a Zombrella lynch result I think. Probably because even baddies don't know what someone will flip in this game I think... I started out this paragraph thinking I didn't suspect Snowman but now I think that considering it as I typed I have changed my mind and would think about a vote for him.

thellama73 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Another example of really bad Zeek logic:

zeek wrote:If I said shit like that in a game I'd be called out for it, so I've done the same.

Does anyone think this is a good reason to call someone out on something? This doesn't seem like a genuine thought process in the slightest. Just because you think someone would find you suspicious for something doesn't mean you automatically have to find another player suspicious for that same thing...

One other thing I would add to this discussion of our old pal zeek is that he replaced Roxy rather quickly, and it is my belief that baddies get replaced more quickly than civvies, although this game may be an exception due to the relative lack of baddie BTSC.

I know for a fact MP is very proactive and he has replacements waiting in the wings. Rox knows when she is in over her head and I don't find it too suspicious that she replaced out quickly and he filled the role quickly. Plus MP is very attached to many roles in this game, civ and bad alike, so I doubt he would be in more of a rush to fill a bad one than a civ one. I think this logic is flawed Llama.

thellama73 wrote:I haven't voiced my opinion on Yotsuba yet, so I may as well do it now.

I 100% agree with Epi that we should not make them our targets and try to lynch them. That does not bring the detectives closer to their goal.
But I also don't think a Yotsuba lynch is as bad as a detective lynch, since it does not advance the Kira win condition either. It does lose us time in which we can be NKed though.

I have typed this damn post three times now and my creaking iPad has eaten it three times. It is ticking me off. One more try...

I agree with Epi as well. He is not advocating trusting the Yatzy, as far as I can see, he is only saying we should focus on the people we KNOW we have to kill to win. If/when we find we have to kill the Yatzy later, let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Why make our win condition more difficult than it has to be, focus on killing Kiras. The longer we argue about the Yatzy group the more time we give the kiras to achieve their own goals. Why is everyone jumping his case about this? Epi has made more sense to me in this game than ever before.

Turnip Head wrote:I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest.

But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them.

Ok, I can see this point. If you are looking Higuchi and you think someone is Yatzy then maybe you consider a vote their way in order to hopefully catch Higuchi. This is the only point in this argument on the other side that has made any sense to me and I am ok with.

Ricochet wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I thought we were all in agreement about Yotsuba. We need one of them dead and don't care what happens to the rest.

But Epi is trying to make it sound like lynching someone for being suspected Yotsuba is wrong, and I don't agree with him there. We need one Yotsuba role dead, because Higuchi is Kira, and if we somehow come to the conclusion that a player is Yotsuba, unless we can also somehow rule them out of being Higuchi, then we still must lynch them.

But Higuchi is unlynchable until he gains the DN, so lynching players we believe are Yotsuba but can't rule out as Higuchi doesn't truly serve the purpose you mention. If it lands on Higuchi, then the lynch is wasted.

Until I read this, lol. However, just going off the series (which I watched with MP just before the game started because he was really wanting me to watch it, I doubt we will know who is killing. L was able to extrapolate that information from the victims in the show, but for all intents and purposes it appeared to everyone outside the task force that it was one killer.we might not know when Higuchi has started killing, so it is hard to say when we should start looking for him. Damn it, I think my opinion changed halfway through this post again!

Epignosis wrote:Without pulling posts, I had the impression that S~V~S and boo were Raye and Naomi. I no longer have that impression.

I will admit that my suspicion of S~V~S was reactionary- S~V~S would not vote for boo without a "smoking gun," but she would vote for me on a whim. While that annoys me, it shouldn't cloud my judgment. I find S~V~S to be awfully inconsistent in practice across the board. I believe that is one source of contention between S~V~S and me, or for that matter, S~V~S and thellama73. She's a "gutter," not a "caser." I can accept that, even if I disagree with her approach and even if I am the victim of that approach.

Obviously, I suspect her for ballooning the detective win condition into basically needing everyone dead to win. But I know she gets paranoid. Drive me insane, but I'm sure I have the same effect.

I think what you all need to start asking yourself is this: What would Kira do without the support of a team? Essentially, we're up against a handful of Serial Killers, one of which has a partner, and some of which that do not even have a kill.

What I mean is this: Rather than go on and on about how someone acted in this game or that game, explore how a person might act by having a vanilla Mafia role (i.e., no BTSC or kill). That person would just be looking to survive until the point when he DOES get the kill, right?

I would advise you all to do your rereads with that in mind.

Why would you say the underlined? My gut reaction to this is you we're trying to communicate to someone you don't have BTSC with. I don't like this one bit to be frank. Until this post I did not think you were Kira at all, but this post makes me wonder if you are not an inactive Kira.

I am really torn right now. Up to know Epi has made sense to me. And his current frustration reads sincere. But that post is really sketchy to me. If you no longer believe it to be true why even bring it up in the first place? It seems like a really good way to paint a target on someone you think needs taken out and yet distance yourself from it at the same time!

And I am feeling more open to the snowman case as well because I find his evaluation of Zombrella to be too non-committal. and she has been playing board game versions of mafia-esque games with him for a very long time, so her evaluation of him carries more weight. If she was bad and he just gave her a defense, she would want to keep him around because his opinion of her should carry more weight. I've done that with MP before, kept him around for the cred. Only to find out later he knew I was bad and set me up. Son of a...

Ok I'm going to go read the new role secrets everyone is talking about.

I voted BWT. I think I already explained my reason. Whoa this is an intense lynch! I will be back later tonight to catch up and post again.

I am posting from my phone from the hospital, which is really difficult. I will make sure to for before the poll closes but I doubt I will last again until I am home tonight.

No FZ. You aren't the only one. I mentioned BWT earlier and I am seriously considering him for a vote. Though boo's case on llama merits some consideration I think, I just get scared voting llama because I usually am wrong when I do find him suspicious. It makes me nervous. As far as BWT though, his level of engagement is making me feel suspicious and the thing is I remember in GoC I was not at all surprised by his engagement there, I was in fact surprised by the fact he got lynched for it, but for some reason in this game it feels insincere to me, but I can't put my finger on why.

Epignosis wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:No death is always welcome! Epi, you seem

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:On a side note I am traveling back to Ohio tomorrow, my grandmother is dying and I want to spend time with her while I can. So, my participation will be different than normal. I'll either be too busy or I will have more free time on my hands than I anticipate now. I can't tell which. But I wanted to give you guys the heads up. Now I should go check out these revealed role secrets I haven't even taken time to look at yet.... Who knew mafia was so much work??

On second thought I have an early flight. I'll read the role secrets during my layover in Dallas. Night all!

Take care over there. Ohio is a dangerous place.

"Ohio has the flavor or a water chestnut..." :P

My layover is actually in Charlotte. Obviously Alex booked these flights on my behalf, lol. I'll go read the role updates now...

I see Zomb asked about me. I was working, I just finished catching up on the thread. I don't think Epi's eye comment is any indication.anyone who knows MP knows that he tries to form his games to the theme as closely as he can. It's one of those things he and I have discussed in a meta sense because I'm the exact opposite, I like to use the theme as a loose structure and let the game develop in whatever direction it will, determined by the player choices. Anyway, all that to say the eye deal being in the game is not even remotely surprising and I expected the same. So I don't find Epi suspect because of it. Especially since he clearly is doing a watch of the whole series, I just assumed he had just come to that part or something.

However, did all the major players make some kind of pact to act as weird as possible? Llama, TH, Russ, Epi, even Aces. You all are so far off the norm I don't even know what to think of it.

Well mostly, someone said something about TH wanting to be lynched (BWT?), which I believe I mentioned before myself. Or if I didn't, I was thinking about it. I'm tired, so I can't remember too well at the moment. I suspect lynching him will either bring him some benefit, or will prove useless to us. I can't see any reason to lynch him right now because of this.

I think it's interesting to see BWT as engaged as he has seemed in his posts, it's been a while since I've seen this from him, and those are some meaty posts, not sure what to make of this.

LC, where are you? I know you are playing but I don't recall much of what you have said. Maybe it's the over the top posting from others that is making your contributions escape me, but it worries me a bit. I'm not even sure how your posting sits as far as high/low or whatever. Need to read you again I think.

Trice, I'm sorry I was wrong, but at the same time I saw you misquoting me and it just looked so manipulative, I felt like you were the best bet. Meh.

No death is always welcome! Epi, you seem convinced MP had received all his PMs but I didn't see anything to suggest that, what led you to this conclusion?

On a side note I am traveling back to Ohio tomorrow, my grandmother is dying and I want to spend time with her while I can. So, my participation will be different than normal. I'll either be too busy or I will have more free time on my hands than I anticipate now. I can't tell which. But I wanted to give you guys the heads up. Now I should go check out these revealed role secrets I haven't even taken time to look at yet.... Who knew mafia was so much work??

On second thought I have an early flight. I'll read the role secrets during my layover in Dallas. Night all!

Ok, just finished catching up. I feel really weird about TH. not weird like I want to lunch him but weird like he wants to be lynched. I don't like this. He is so far out of character for himself or most established mafia players that it feels like he either wants it or is not afraid of it. I'mnot voting TH.

I'm not voting Epi either, despite what felt like weird stuff against me, his logic seems really sound to me.

I would consider a vote for either FZ or Trice right now. FZ seems kind of all over the place, which does not seem in character. And trice has been caught snipping post and misrepresenting them. That is hardly civ behavior.

I'm voting Trice.

Linki I will catch up after my post....

I don't really know at this moment. I feel like there were some really big personality players going back and forth in the thread today but I'm not sure what I make of it.

Also... WIFEY!!!!

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Both of her posts on day 0 were made such that one could handwave away either option she voted for, so if it wasn't close and there was no point in voting L/Light then she could avoid attention

linki. that was earlier and wasn't what I was posting about, though

And how exactly did putting a vote where I did keep me from attention? I've been playing this game a long time, if I wanted to blend in I know how to do it. I voted what I felt like voting for the reasons I have explained. I left the thread planning on coming back in a bit, catching up, seeing if something someone said changed my mind, unfortunately other issues arose that I felt needed attention. Then I had to leave for work. So I went in and voted without posting or catching up because I didn't have time and frankly, i thought everything I had said already spoke for itself and would explain the reason for my drive by vote when I got home. I really didn't see the big deal.

So it is rather misleading to talk about this three times in the thread stuff. Yeah I was in the thread three times, but something came up between the last time I posted and the last possible time I had to vote before I went to work.

Epi, fair enough re:your reasoning. I don't understand why you wouldn't just say that to begin with, because it didn't make sense to me that I was on a short list for reasons that made no sense. However, it was not a baddie move, it was because I liked both options so evening up seemed like the way to go to me. :shrugs:

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I made a list of four people that I would vote for on Day 1. Turnip Head is one of those, although not for the same reasoning you raised, llama.

Am I on your list?

No. I like you.

In fact, so that no one accuses me of being opportunistic or jumping onto other people's cases, I'll name the quartet now:

Ricochet, Turnip Head, spacedaisy, and FZ.

Why these four?

I believe Ricochet was being deceptive in his Day 0 questions. I think he was pretending to be clueless. He is not clueless. He is very smart. Even he knew that Simon Railton belong in the Eclectic category but sucked beyond belief! I think Ricochet is bad.

Turnip Head? TH has been boring beyond belief. Also I think he is tied to another player.

spacedaisy voted Day 0 and didn't say why. I think spacedaisy is bad with FZ. FZ. also has been absent. I think these two are unsure of what to say.

Epi this doesn't make sense to me. I said quite a bit in my analysis of the options earlier in the day and explained where I was leaning. I just didn't say it at the moment of my vote because I was in a rush at that time. Had I been caught up maybe my vote would have been different, I don't know. Probably not because I still liked the idea of trying out something new. I didn't say as much as you did, no. Because I was busy playing mod this morning/afternoon and I wasn't in a pissing contest with DH like you were. I can understand your suspicion, but your reasoning for including me on the short list seems hollow to me.

boo wrote:Oh, a potential 3/9 actually, since spacedaisy voted without actually posting, but maybe her post got eaten or something.

No, I got bogged down dealing with some mod related stuff which tbh is more important to me anyway, and had to vote quickly before I left. I wasn't even caught up since the last time I posted actually, I had already expressed that I liked both normal and light/l and just decided to cast a vote for the second because I was ok with either and decided to even it up a little more. I'm catching up on the last seven pages right now...

Made wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote: High posting could be beneficial as it would probably force Kira to be more active, thus eliminating the likelihood of a baddie flying under the radar. But in the downside it could encourage people lynching high posters which seems counterproductive to the spirit of the game.

holy crap good call.
I think this right here is the best possible situation for us. While L/Light sound interesting, baddies can't fly under the radar if they need to talk to be able to save their teammates.


that all said i need to read the rest of the thread, but i think this is a very solid point.

You seem to be ignoring the second half. I think it's a bad idea because it will likely lead to lynching a bunch of high posters. Anyone who is active will automatically be suspected.

I am personally looking at either Normal or Light/L

I don't care for the secret votes much, it leaves it too difficult to really figure out much about people's alignment. They could say whatever they want in thread but bite very differently. It would be an easy way for a baddie to hide.

High posting could be beneficial as it would probably force Kira to be more active, thus eliminating the likelihood of a baddie flying under the radar. But in the downside it could encourage people lynching high posters which seems counterproductive to the spirit of the game.

Low posting would encourage people not to post much, which would make it hard for us to determine much about anyone again, in my opinion. Plus it would make the game much less interesting. It's never good to discourage people from posting. I don't like this one either.

Normal lynch, if it ain't broke don't fix it... Then again, it would be interesting to try something new.

Early voter, this would seem to encourage snap decisions which I don't really care for, especially as watching what people say during a lynch can make a difference and sometimes even provide a baddie slip up.

Late voters, encourages people hold their votes until the end. Could result in more missed votes, plus baddies frequently hold their votes in case they need to save someone, could give them even more of an advantage in that situation

L/Light, this could be really interesting and might allow us to narrow down some things, but with all the numbers, it might be more difficult to figure stuff out from this than we think. But the fact that we still have public voting allows us to figure out alignment the old fashioned way anyhow so I think I might be leaning this way.

Nihilistic, no. Just no.

So for me, either normal or L/Light. Gonna have to think about this one.