The Syndicate

Also [mention]Sloonei[/mention] what made Leetic go from a strong town read to a scum read?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:10 pm I was about to move my vote to leetic but I saw he already has 4 votes.

Why should that stop you?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:35 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:34 pm [VOTE: tsaccount] aubergine

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:20 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:07 pm Oh my god sloonei he's town
Agreed.
ted's post was about ts account. what?

Ted should use commas as I thought he was talking about you.

ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:57 pm
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:54 pm i'm a fairly passive player. i don't wanna read ts account yet 'cause he burned me hard like twice in a row where i thought i had his town meta down a la SOUL READS but he was a wolf and it hurt

so i'm being cautious. if it's any consolation though sloonei, he's playing right into his meta. he's stubborn and aggressive-- don't read into it either way.

look at the way he associates with other players though
You get a point for acknowledging that I have no meta, and another point for identifying a good way to catch me.

Which forum do you guys come from?

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:46 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:05 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:51 pm
Spoiler: show
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:16 am Sloonei is town. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him talking mechanically. It's not pro anything and doesn't deter the game at all. An argument could be made that it is beneficial towards the game and lets you understand what could be going on. That newfound understanding can better your reads.

Why was Sloonei being voted for mechanical talk? Ts why are you gungho about it? I can't help but agree with Sloonei that suspecting someone over mechanical is suspicious in of itself. It's lazy and never actually feels like a genuine read. Furthermore, scum use this too much to get by with their fake suspicions. Thus why it feels lazy and not genuine.
Why defend Sloonei over mechanical chatter?

Spoiler: show
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:51 pm You asked a question about the game mechanics. Ppl were trying to say that you were bad for doing that. I gave my two cents on why mechanical talk isn't a bad thing. Call it defending, I don't really care. What is wrong with what I did and how does it point to me trying to earn town creds? Town creds for what? Defending you?

Also, what didn't you do?

Why imply that your behavior could be called something other than defense?

Spoiler: show
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:58 pm But I never believed nor stated that you were talking about mechanics for the sake of talking about mechanics. I don't see how that was implied either.

Huh? I never said that I didn't defend you. What are you taking about Sloo?
Observe:
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:16 am Sloonei is town. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him talking mechanically. It's not pro anything and doesn't deter the game at all. An argument could be made that it is beneficial towards the game and lets you understand what could be going on. That newfound understanding can better your reads.

Why was Sloonei being voted for mechanical talk? Ts why are you gungho about it? I can't help but agree with Sloonei that suspecting someone over mechanical is suspicious in of itself. It's lazy and never actually feels like a genuine read. Furthermore, scum use this too much to get by with their fake suspicions. Thus why it feels lazy and not genuine.
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:51 pm You asked a question about the game mechanics. Ppl were trying to say that you were bad for doing that. I gave my two cents on why mechanical talk isn't a bad thing. Call it defending, I don't really care. What is wrong with what I did and how does it point to me trying to earn town creds? Town creds for what? Defending you?

Also, what didn't you do?

----------------------------------------------------------
It's fine to tell me that I'm misreading things. But it doesn't mean anything if you can't tell me why that's the case. So far I've just been trying to get you to follow up on things that you have already said, but your response has been "I didn't say that."
Because people were saying that what you did was a bad thing and I disagreed. So I voiced my disagreement.

I wasn't trying to imply that. What I meant is that I don't care if you consider what I did to be a defense. I've played a lot of games where someone always suspected me cause I would defend players and I disagree with mentality that defense = buddying = scum. So if you're going to call what I did as a defense to say that in scum for it then do that. I don't care and it won't stop me from defending players in the future.

Do you understand now?
i like this too. no read on dragomir yet though

I'm glad that you like my post, now why do you like it? What makes it good?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:25 pm My brain is trying to process the fact that Mac just announced an “exceptionally confident” town read on me on April 1st.

I thought you lived in US. It should still March 31st for you.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:14 pm I started the day more likely to vote Mikey and now I'm thinking of voting for Sloonei. It's not hard to view Sloonei's behavior through the lens where he's bad

But is it hard to view him through the lens that he's good?

ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:40 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:37 pm
ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:16 pm Dragomir- scum lean
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- scum lean
leetic- town
Long Con- light town
MacDougall- null
Master Radishes- null
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- light town
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- null

There are a few players who are likely town who simply have not posted enough for me to get a reasonable read on them- speedchuck and epignosis I would GTH town.
Ted is a problem because their reads don't make sense. Radishes sounds towny in a vacuum but this weird concept of me backtracking must have come from somewhere and I am leery of that. I am probably wrong on sloonei but I will take to task the dismantling of his case anyway. Overall I see a lot of "probably town" simply doing scummy things.
I hate all your leans.
It is a good thing I did not make them to appease you, then

Why are you scum leaning all of my town reads? A complete opposite of what I have.

ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:16 pm Dragomir- scum lean
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- scum lean
leetic- town
Long Con- light town
MacDougall- null
Master Radishes- null
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- light town
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- null

There are a few players who are likely town who simply have not posted enough for me to get a reasonable read on them- speedchuck and epignosis I would GTH town.
Ted is a problem because their reads don't make sense. Radishes sounds towny in a vacuum but this weird concept of me backtracking must have come from somewhere and I am leery of that. I am probably wrong on sloonei but I will take to task the dismantling of his case anyway. Overall I see a lot of "probably town" simply doing scummy things.

I hate all your leans.

ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:16 pm Dragomir- scum lean
Epignosis- null
Funnygurl555- scum lean
leetic- town
Long Con- light town
MacDougall- null
Master Radishes- null
Sloonei- scum lean
speedchuck- null
tedxtr- light town
ts account- town
TonyStarkPrime- null
Turnip Head- null

There are a few players who are likely town who simply have not posted enough for me to get a reasonable read on them- speedchuck and epignosis I would GTH town.
Ted is a problem because their reads don't make sense. Radishes sounds towny in a vacuum but this weird concept of me backtracking must have come from somewhere and I am leery of that. I am probably wrong on sloonei but I will take to task the dismantling of his case anyway. Overall I see a lot of "probably town" simply doing scummy things.

I hate all your leans.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:32 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:31 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:29 pm [VOTE: funnygurl555] aubergine
Why? Why not LC?
I want us to talk about something different. What has Funnygurl done that makes her town?

Her play style reflects that of a town than a scum.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:29 pm [VOTE: funnygurl555] aubergine

Why? Why not LC?

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:24 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:15 pm i'm tired of explaining myself, my iso is filled with like crumbs and stuff, look through it

crumbs not as in crumbs claiming a PR and having an inno on ts but like, crumbs of explanations

i kind of feel like dropping naked votes this game really

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:20 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:18 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:14 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:11 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:10 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:13 pm Has anyone actually tried to defend LC? I'm a bit wary of the growing LC wagon at the moment as D1 wagons with little resistance rarely land on scum.
Growing? There's only been 2 votes on him dawg. Shit has been static.
By that post, speed had just voted. It sure is easy to make my posts seem ridiculous when you take them out of context.
No, speed had voted before you made that post. Even if you are correct, it is still ridiculous because it's one vote. Nobody else has voted for LC. 2 votes aren't a reason for concern.
It was my first post after speed had voted - it's not too difficult to understand. Given the fact that other users had posted suspicions on the slot there was clear potential for it to get bigger. Anyway, I still would find it hard to believe that you have precisely zero thoughts on ted or Radishes after all this time.
I don't find it hard to believe at all. In contrast, I find it to be perfectly reasonable.
I'm not even sure which one of you is being lazier at this point, but it shouldn't be difficult to at least have GTH thoughts about either slot. Not having any thoughts about them just means you haven't read any of their posts. As for you, ted, if you're going to be so insistent that these people are town, you should at least explain it since others are very suspicious about these two slots - if there's something that I'm not seeing in them, it would be nice to know.

How am I being lazy? Why is it necessary that I have to read them? Who fucking cares how much content they have? Their post count is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to dictating your read on a person. The content inside those damn posts is the important stuff. I've read the posts of Radish and Ted and I will say it again, what they have said has not made me feel anything about them. It doesn't make me think town or scum. NOTHING. I absolutely refuse to come up with a disingenuous read on them to please your dumb mindset.

The only time a post count will be relevant for reading a player is if they have a high post count and their content are a bunch of nonsense and they're not really contributing. Even then, you're still talking about their content instead of actual post count.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:18 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:14 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:11 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:10 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:13 pm Has anyone actually tried to defend LC? I'm a bit wary of the growing LC wagon at the moment as D1 wagons with little resistance rarely land on scum.
Growing? There's only been 2 votes on him dawg. Shit has been static.
By that post, speed had just voted. It sure is easy to make my posts seem ridiculous when you take them out of context.
No, speed had voted before you made that post. Even if you are correct, it is still ridiculous because it's one vote. Nobody else has voted for LC. 2 votes aren't a reason for concern.
It was my first post after speed had voted - it's not too difficult to understand. Given the fact that other users had posted suspicions on the slot there was clear potential for it to get bigger. Anyway, I still would find it hard to believe that you have precisely zero thoughts on ted or Radishes after all this time.

I don't find it hard to believe at all. In contrast, I find it to be perfectly reasonable.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:29 pm Sometimes you have to vote without giving a reason. You've got to tickle their balls a little.

LC especially needs ball tickling. His first couple of posts looked fun, but after he voted for Sloonei and got questioned for it his energy just died. Ever since then each post has been ineffectual defense without any of that town spark.

That's pretty gay. Are you coming out the closet?

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:15 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:14 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:13 pm Has anyone actually tried to defend LC? I'm a bit wary of the growing LC wagon at the moment as D1 wagons with little resistance rarely land on scum.
I didn't even notice that he had votes. Why are you worried about the growth of his wagon? Do you have any particular thoughts on Drago or speedchuck regarding their votes?
Did speedchuck even give a reason?

Did Dragomir even respond to my criticism of his suspicion?

I have. I said "huh" to your false dichotomy. You could hardly call that criticism.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:11 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:10 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:13 pm Has anyone actually tried to defend LC? I'm a bit wary of the growing LC wagon at the moment as D1 wagons with little resistance rarely land on scum.
Growing? There's only been 2 votes on him dawg. Shit has been static.
By that post, speed had just voted. It sure is easy to make my posts seem ridiculous when you take them out of context.

No, speed had voted before you made that post. Even if you are correct, it is still ridiculous because it's one vote. Nobody else has voted for LC. 2 votes aren't a reason for concern.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:13 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:05 pm Because people were saying that what you did was a bad thing and I disagreed. So I voiced my disagreement.

I wasn't trying to imply that. What I meant is that I don't care if you consider what I did to be a defense. I've played a lot of games where someone always suspected me cause I would defend players and I disagree with mentality that defense = buddying = scum. So if you're going to call what I did as a defense to say that in scum for it then do that. I don't care and it won't stop me from defending players in the future.

Do you understand now?
I understand the second point. I still do not understand your thought progression on the first point. Let's go back to the beginning of it. What was your initial perception of me at the very beginning of the game? Did you think the early suspicion against me (leetic, long con, ts account) was fair, or at least an appropriate response to the things I had said to that point? I understand that you disagreed with the suspicion against me. I'm trying to get a better sense of why.

I had nothing on you at the start of the game. I wasn't paying attention you. No, I don't think it was fair. I think it was dumb.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:13 pm Has anyone actually tried to defend LC? I'm a bit wary of the growing LC wagon at the moment as D1 wagons with little resistance rarely land on scum.

Growing? There's only been 2 votes on him dawg. Shit has been static.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] you voted for Leetic. Why did you do that? [mention]tedxtr[/mention] what are your reasons for your Leetic vote? [mention]Sloonei[/mention] would you consider going back to LC?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:59 pm My mouse is broken.

Use your phone

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:51 pm
Spoiler: show
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:16 am Sloonei is town. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him talking mechanically. It's not pro anything and doesn't deter the game at all. An argument could be made that it is beneficial towards the game and lets you understand what could be going on. That newfound understanding can better your reads.

Why was Sloonei being voted for mechanical talk? Ts why are you gungho about it? I can't help but agree with Sloonei that suspecting someone over mechanical is suspicious in of itself. It's lazy and never actually feels like a genuine read. Furthermore, scum use this too much to get by with their fake suspicions. Thus why it feels lazy and not genuine.
Why defend Sloonei over mechanical chatter?

Spoiler: show
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:51 pm You asked a question about the game mechanics. Ppl were trying to say that you were bad for doing that. I gave my two cents on why mechanical talk isn't a bad thing. Call it defending, I don't really care. What is wrong with what I did and how does it point to me trying to earn town creds? Town creds for what? Defending you?

Also, what didn't you do?

Why imply that your behavior could be called something other than defense?

Spoiler: show
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:58 pm But I never believed nor stated that you were talking about mechanics for the sake of talking about mechanics. I don't see how that was implied either.

Huh? I never said that I didn't defend you. What are you taking about Sloo?
Observe:
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:16 am Sloonei is town. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him talking mechanically. It's not pro anything and doesn't deter the game at all. An argument could be made that it is beneficial towards the game and lets you understand what could be going on. That newfound understanding can better your reads.

Why was Sloonei being voted for mechanical talk? Ts why are you gungho about it? I can't help but agree with Sloonei that suspecting someone over mechanical is suspicious in of itself. It's lazy and never actually feels like a genuine read. Furthermore, scum use this too much to get by with their fake suspicions. Thus why it feels lazy and not genuine.
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:51 pm You asked a question about the game mechanics. Ppl were trying to say that you were bad for doing that. I gave my two cents on why mechanical talk isn't a bad thing. Call it defending, I don't really care. What is wrong with what I did and how does it point to me trying to earn town creds? Town creds for what? Defending you?

Also, what didn't you do?

----------------------------------------------------------
It's fine to tell me that I'm misreading things. But it doesn't mean anything if you can't tell me why that's the case. So far I've just been trying to get you to follow up on things that you have already said, but your response has been "I didn't say that."

Because people were saying that what you did was a bad thing and I disagreed. So I voiced my disagreement.

I wasn't trying to imply that. What I meant is that I don't care if you consider what I did to be a defense. I've played a lot of games where someone always suspected me cause I would defend players and I disagree with mentality that defense = buddying = scum. So if you're going to call what I did as a defense to say that in scum for it then do that. I don't care and it won't stop me from defending players in the future.

Do you understand now?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:38 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:32 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:29 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:21 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:15 pm Dragomir has essentially denied everything I’ve asked him about. I don’t know whether or not those are fair responses. This all started because I tried to run with something Tony started. Maybe I should let him weigh in.
Would you prefer that I agree with everything you've asked me about?
You're doing it again. Any time a point is brought up about you, your immediate response is to negate it. My intention has not been to grill you or catch you on something, but you've responded as though I am trying to trap you. From my perspective, our exchange has gone like this:
"Why did you do X, Drago?"
"I didn't do X."
"Okay, then why did you do Y?"
"I didn't do Y."

What have you done in this game?
Because the point is wrong. What else am I supposed to do aside from negate it? Like seriously, answer me that.
Explain why it's wrong and what you did instead of what's being suggested.

Ok, can you tell me what the X and Y are?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:29 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:21 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:15 pm Dragomir has essentially denied everything I’ve asked him about. I don’t know whether or not those are fair responses. This all started because I tried to run with something Tony started. Maybe I should let him weigh in.
Would you prefer that I agree with everything you've asked me about?
You're doing it again. Any time a point is brought up about you, your immediate response is to negate it. My intention has not been to grill you or catch you on something, but you've responded as though I am trying to trap you. From my perspective, our exchange has gone like this:
"Why did you do X, Drago?"
"I didn't do X."
"Okay, then why did you do Y?"
"I didn't do Y."

What have you done in this game?

Because the point is wrong. What else am I supposed to do aside from negate it? Like seriously, answer me that.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:15 pm Dragomir has essentially denied everything I’ve asked him about. I don’t know whether or not those are fair responses. This all started because I tried to run with something Tony started. Maybe I should let him weigh in.

Would you prefer that I agree with everything you've asked me about?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:03 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:58 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:55 pm I talked about mechanics as an incidental thing related to a larger point. I did not talk about mechanics for the sake of talking about mechanics, not at that point at least. Your defense of me hinged largely on the acceptability of talking about mechanics, but even I was denying that I had even done that (but I agree that it would be worth defending).

Now, why are you saying that it was not a defense of me? It was a textbook defense. You framed the entire thing around the suspicion against me being unfounded and then launched into an attack against that suspicion. That is defense. Defense is not necessarily bad. But denying that defense exists when it’s clear as day that it does is a confusing look.
But I never believed nor stated that you were talking about mechanics for the sake of talking about mechanics. I don't see how that was implied either.

Huh? I never said that I didn't defend you. What are you taking about Sloo?
I’m just trying to follow up on Tony’s initial gripe as I see it. If I did not talk about mechanics for the sake of talking about mechanics, why did you defend me the way that you did?

“Call it defending, I don’t really care.”

Because people were calling you scum for talking about mechanics. I made a post on why that isn't the case.

How is that me denying that I defended you? I was just saying that I don't care if you call it defending or not.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:55 pm I talked about mechanics as an incidental thing related to a larger point. I did not talk about mechanics for the sake of talking about mechanics, not at that point at least. Your defense of me hinged largely on the acceptability of talking about mechanics, but even I was denying that I had even done that (but I agree that it would be worth defending).

Now, why are you saying that it was not a defense of me? It was a textbook defense. You framed the entire thing around the suspicion against me being unfounded and then launched into an attack against that suspicion. That is defense. Defense is not necessarily bad. But denying that defense exists when it’s clear as day that it does is a confusing look.

But I never believed nor stated that you were talking about mechanics for the sake of talking about mechanics. I don't see how that was implied either.

Huh? I never said that I didn't defend you. What are you taking about Sloo?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:45 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:41 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:30 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:15 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:12 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:16 am Sloonei is town. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him talking mechanically. It's not pro anything and doesn't deter the game at all. An argument could be made that it is beneficial towards the game and lets you understand what could be going on. That newfound understanding can better your reads.

Why was Sloonei being voted for mechanical talk? Ts why are you gungho about it? I can't help but agree with Sloonei that suspecting someone over mechanical is suspicious in of itself. It's lazy and never actually feels like a genuine read. Furthermore, scum use this too much to get by with their fake suspicions. Thus why it feels lazy and not genuine.
I don’t like this post from Drago. Ironically it’s seems like something I’d post but that’s irrelevant.
Tell me more
The defense hinges on what amounts to a non-existent part of the case. It seems like Drago is more focused on earning town cred
Prove it.
I think it’s a valid point worth responding to. You defended me for focusing on mechanics. I didn’t do that.

You asked a question about the game mechanics. Ppl were trying to say that you were bad for doing that. I gave my two cents on why mechanical talk isn't a bad thing. Call it defending, I don't really care. What is wrong with what I did and how does it point to me trying to earn town creds? Town creds for what? Defending you?

Also, what didn't you do?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:34 pm
ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:15 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:09 am I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.

So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.
There exists somewhere a big imaginary book of mafia. When players are good enough, they get a chance to write a chapter of the book. In some footnotes, you will find clear references to mechanical discussion being a scumtell. I do not know what to tell you beyond this. I am not the one who decides what are and aren't considered scumtells, though I do have a few scumtells of my own that I have not seen other players share.

Generally, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will struggle to generate content. This is the closest thing you can get to objective in mafia- sort by postcount will almost always win more games than any individual player's reads, it has been tested. As a result of this, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will latch onto low-hanging talking points. In mystery games especially, mechanical discussion is inevitable from any alignment, but scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) are happy to engage in this discourse, as it means they don't have to provide fake content.

Happy?
I like this post.

Why do you like it?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:30 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:15 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:12 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:16 am Sloonei is town. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him talking mechanically. It's not pro anything and doesn't deter the game at all. An argument could be made that it is beneficial towards the game and lets you understand what could be going on. That newfound understanding can better your reads.

Why was Sloonei being voted for mechanical talk? Ts why are you gungho about it? I can't help but agree with Sloonei that suspecting someone over mechanical is suspicious in of itself. It's lazy and never actually feels like a genuine read. Furthermore, scum use this too much to get by with their fake suspicions. Thus why it feels lazy and not genuine.
I don’t like this post from Drago. Ironically it’s seems like something I’d post but that’s irrelevant.
Tell me more
The defense hinges on what amounts to a non-existent part of the case. It seems like Drago is more focused on earning town cred

Prove it.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:19 pm I mean, you were able to make a read on LC when he had less content, so you having no thoughts on these two people is absurd.

No it isn't. The amount of posts someone has doesn't dictate me reading them a certain way. The content inside their posts does. What LC said made me want to read him. What Radish and Ted have stated hasn't. It's that simple really.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:18 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:15 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:06 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:57 am
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:51 am Reads on a few more active players:

Dragomir: I think a lot of his posts have been more CWAC. I mean, there's very little that he has posted that Sloonei hadn't already posted, and he's only interacting with the same people that Sloonei had been. GTH scum, because I do not see him making his own content.

Funnygurl: Likely town, seems similar to her town play in the hydra game.

Master Radishes: I do like their posts so far, does seem like they are trying to solve the game and approaching multiple players, so town read.

Sloonei: I'd say town, as he is now trying to get discussion going.

tedxtr: I honestly am not a fan of this slot, I explained why their vote for me was kinda lame and I don't really like his "Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something", it seems like backtracking given that his initial vote for me was laden with the same amount of reasoning. Scum read for sure.

ts account: His play in this game is much different than what I'm used to, he's much more tunnelly than he usually is and is much less casual during D1. I haven't seen his scum play yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is it.
Are you incriminating me for mindmelding with Sloonei? Is it bad that a lot of my to thoughts follow his? What am I supposed to do exactly when my thoughts agree with his own? Do you want me to force my own thoughts so I can "generate" my own content?
It's not necessarily the fact that you agree with Sloonei, it's more the fact that when I read through your posts, there is nothing about the game that I couldn't have learned by reading Sloonei's posts. It does read like you're trying to hide behind a strong player. Besides, there's plenty that Sloonei has yet to comment on, what are your thoughts on Radishes and tedxtr for example?
Again Leetic, would you prefer that I create random thoughts out of thin air so I could be original?

I have no thoughts about them.
This is just lame. They both have plenty of game related posts and they should at least be able to make you feel something about them. [VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

They can feel something for you but they don't for me. It's just how it is. I need you to answer my question.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:06 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:57 am
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:51 am Reads on a few more active players:

Dragomir: I think a lot of his posts have been more CWAC. I mean, there's very little that he has posted that Sloonei hadn't already posted, and he's only interacting with the same people that Sloonei had been. GTH scum, because I do not see him making his own content.

Funnygurl: Likely town, seems similar to her town play in the hydra game.

Master Radishes: I do like their posts so far, does seem like they are trying to solve the game and approaching multiple players, so town read.

Sloonei: I'd say town, as he is now trying to get discussion going.

tedxtr: I honestly am not a fan of this slot, I explained why their vote for me was kinda lame and I don't really like his "Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something", it seems like backtracking given that his initial vote for me was laden with the same amount of reasoning. Scum read for sure.

ts account: His play in this game is much different than what I'm used to, he's much more tunnelly than he usually is and is much less casual during D1. I haven't seen his scum play yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is it.
Are you incriminating me for mindmelding with Sloonei? Is it bad that a lot of my to thoughts follow his? What am I supposed to do exactly when my thoughts agree with his own? Do you want me to force my own thoughts so I can "generate" my own content?
It's not necessarily the fact that you agree with Sloonei, it's more the fact that when I read through your posts, there is nothing about the game that I couldn't have learned by reading Sloonei's posts. It does read like you're trying to hide behind a strong player. Besides, there's plenty that Sloonei has yet to comment on, what are your thoughts on Radishes and tedxtr for example?

Again Leetic, would you prefer that I create random thoughts out of thin air so I could be original?

I have no thoughts about them.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:52 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:47 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:45 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:34 am Assassin's creed has people in the modern day going into a matrix-like thing and reliving the lives of assassins of the past to gain skillz.

Maybe nutella and JJJ are like a templar and an assassin from the future and they're in our heads right now, living our lives, making our posts.
I haven't felt like myself lately...
Have you know counters to my points about you?
False dichotomy.

Huh?

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:45 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:34 am Assassin's creed has people in the modern day going into a matrix-like thing and reliving the lives of assassins of the past to gain skillz.

Maybe nutella and JJJ are like a templar and an assassin from the future and they're in our heads right now, living our lives, making our posts.
I haven't felt like myself lately...

Have you know counters to my points about you?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:00 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:55 am I don't see ts as civ anymore.
I never did. That entire exchange gave me the impression that ts was inflating his thread presence. Much ado about nothing.

This is a fair statement.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:57 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:55 am I don't see ts as civ anymore.
What changed?

I see nothing but bullshit coming from his side during our interaction. He is wolf. What do you think about LC?

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:51 am Reads on a few more active players:

Dragomir: I think a lot of his posts have been more CWAC. I mean, there's very little that he has posted that Sloonei hadn't already posted, and he's only interacting with the same people that Sloonei had been. GTH scum, because I do not see him making his own content.

Funnygurl: Likely town, seems similar to her town play in the hydra game.

Master Radishes: I do like their posts so far, does seem like they are trying to solve the game and approaching multiple players, so town read.

Sloonei: I'd say town, as he is now trying to get discussion going.

tedxtr: I honestly am not a fan of this slot, I explained why their vote for me was kinda lame and I don't really like his "Was to shoot shit around, I wanted to bait a reaction or something", it seems like backtracking given that his initial vote for me was laden with the same amount of reasoning. Scum read for sure.

ts account: His play in this game is much different than what I'm used to, he's much more tunnelly than he usually is and is much less casual during D1. I haven't seen his scum play yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is it.

Are you incriminating me for mindmelding with Sloonei? Is it bad that a lot of my to thoughts follow his? What am I supposed to do exactly when my thoughts agree with his own? Do you want me to force my own thoughts so I can "generate" my own content?

I don't see ts as civ anymore.

ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:15 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:09 am I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.

So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.
There exists somewhere a big imaginary book of mafia. When players are good enough, they get a chance to write a chapter of the book. In some footnotes, you will find clear references to mechanical discussion being a scumtell. I do not know what to tell you beyond this. I am not the one who decides what are and aren't considered scumtells, though I do have a few scumtells of my own that I have not seen other players share.

Generally, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will struggle to generate content. This is the closest thing you can get to objective in mafia- sort by postcount will almost always win more games than any individual player's reads, it has been tested. As a result of this, scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) will latch onto low-hanging talking points. In mystery games especially, mechanical discussion is inevitable from any alignment, but scum (moreso bad scum than good scum) are happy to engage in this discourse, as it means they don't have to provide fake content.

Happy?

No, I'm not happy.

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:07 am
ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:03 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:01 am
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:55 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:51 am
Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:42 am fine it's not what you want your d1 discussion to be
What would you like us to be talking about today?
well i mean i WANNA meme 'til an hour before eod but since that's UNPRODUCTIVE i wanna see a boxing match that doesn't... include mikey lol
Why not? It seems that you guys have plenty of experience with each other. What is your read on him here?
Is there anyone or anything we're not talking about enough?
She knows I am town, but it remains to be seen whether that is because she is a wolf or because she has the good read on me.
i mean you have some townie points but you're not there yet

can't trust you too soon >:O

Why does he have townie points? What did he do to get them?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:08 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:06 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:51 am I kind of want the Sloonei and ts shit to stop, there's already information to infer stuff from and quite frankly I think they're both town.
Why do you want it to stop? I don't see the point in stopping a meaningful discussion between the two.
Because I town read them both?

Chief, that's not good enough.

ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:05 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:00 am It should not be considered a scumtell. I have seen a lot more townies than scum tall about the game mechanics. Furthermore, it actually helped progress the game and assisted in making reads on others. Mechanical talk is not bad at all regardless of our easy it is to create a discussion out of. On the contrary suspecting somebody for mechanical talk is a much greater scumtell because scums actually do this and it's a very lazy and easy read to go off because you could just say "someone is not really contributing by talking about game mechanics" or whatever.

Because I fail to comprehend as to how a townie would actually want to use such horrendous logic to vote someone.
I mean no offense to you, but many many more games of mafia have been played than you have witnessed. Just because you have not seen the same behavior does not make that behavior a general indicator of alignment.
If anybody suspects another player for mechanical discussion, however, I will alert you.

I could use the same logic against you. You have only played a fraction of the amount of mafia games that exist so you can't truly know that mechanical talk is widely considered a scumtell. It might have been from the games you've played but not the many others have.

So basically, trying to say that mechanical talk is a scumtell is bullshit. It's not a universal opinion. I want you to explain to me what really makes mechanical talk a bad thing.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:51 am I kind of want the Sloonei and ts shit to stop, there's already information to infer stuff from and quite frankly I think they're both town.

Why do you want it to stop? I don't see the point in stopping a meaningful discussion between the two.

ts account wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:50 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:43 am @ts account why is mechanical talk a bad thing? I don't think you have yet to explain that, if so, my bad for missing it. Either way can you express that for me? The answer to your question is option 1.

The situation between ts and Sloo is VvsV. I am quite sure about it. I don't sense wolf coming out from them.
Mechanical discussion is widely regarded as a scumtell because it's one of the easiest types of discussion to engage in.
Does anything in particular make you lean towards option one?

It should not be considered a scumtell. I have seen a lot more townies than scum tall about the game mechanics. Furthermore, it actually helped progress the game and assisted in making reads on others. Mechanical talk is not bad at all regardless of our easy it is to create a discussion out of. On the contrary suspecting somebody for mechanical talk is a much greater scumtell because scums actually do this and it's a very lazy and easy read to go off because you could just say "someone is not really contributing by talking about game mechanics" or whatever.

Because I fail to comprehend as to how a townie would actually want to use such horrendous logic to vote someone.

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:38 am i didn't like that all dragomir really did was be sloonei's hype man. not in a "that's scummy" or "that's bad play" but it's not something that deserves brownie points imo

also y'all stop getting ya panties in a bunch with the mikey x sloonei stuff it's a slippery slope and not what you want your d0 discussion to be

trust me

What's wrong with Sloonei and I mindmelding? Who is giving me brownie points cause of it?

[mention]ts account[/mention] why is mechanical talk a bad thing? I don't think you have yet to explain that, if so, my bad for missing it. Either way can you express that for me? The answer to your question is option 1.

The situation between ts and Sloo is VvsV. I am quite sure about it. I don't sense wolf coming out from them.

I agree with Sloo. Leetic is probably town. Been mindmelding with Sloonei a lot.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:07 am
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:03 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:31 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:30 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:27 pm I also voted for long con.
Why did you do that?
His vote is silly.
Agreed.
What is silly about it?

His entire premise for the vote is dumb. He assumes that you'll open the same way as you did in another game and since you didn't, it's justification for why you're scum. It's meta and it's stupid meta. Most people don't always open up the exact same way in games that they're in regardless of alignment. I'm confident that I could easily find a game in which he opened differently from this one and day that he's scum.

He's either...
1. Ignoring how dumb his logic is and is just trying to create something against you to contribute.
2. Not realizing how dumb his logic is.

If it's 1, then he's a lazy scum. If it's 2, then he's a lazy townie.

Sloonei is town. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him talking mechanically. It's not pro anything and doesn't deter the game at all. An argument could be made that it is beneficial towards the game and lets you understand what could be going on. That newfound understanding can better your reads.

Why was Sloonei being voted for mechanical talk? Ts why are you gungho about it? I can't help but agree with Sloonei that suspecting someone over mechanical is suspicious in of itself. It's lazy and never actually feels like a genuine read. Furthermore, scum use this too much to get by with their fake suspicions. Thus why it feels lazy and not genuine.

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