The Syndicate

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:35 pm yeah sorry i just had a c-section, can't play much.

Congratulations on your baby

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:24 pm The big things that do stick out in my head is the fact that Day Creature had 29 posts, of which 19 were mech discussion posts. Then at the end of the day he bemoaned that today was such a bust because all people talked about was mech and the wolves can hide in mech talk. Despite the fact that he was one of the driving forces of that conversation.

I agree I was part of it. I said wolves would most likely make mech talks because it's way easier than faking solving and I don't think that contradicts with myself being part of it. I was mostly pointing out that, despite me being part of it, wolves could very well be talking about mechanics.

I also recall feeling like when NAA and Marmot were took out, it was likely an opportunity for the wolves to try and come in and control conversation. I waited because I wanted to see who seemed to come charging in. The two who came in were Creature and DDL. Creature also came in with wall posts reads. I didn't care for the look, but not something by itself that was bad.

When I saw NAA and Marmot killed, I was first frustrated because they were such obvious favorite targets and they were killed right under eight doctor noses. I was surprised no one bothered to protect them. Also, the day starting at 7 v 3 with only one mislynch being available increased my sense of urgency to do the solving and get the game home before it was too late. You say wolves were going to take that opportunity to control thread conversation but a town can very well decide to step up after their two top townreads and most trustable players just dropped dead this cleanly.

I cannot fathom why anyone would have thought Dizzy bad. There is no world in which a wolf makes the post he did. It makes literally no sense to believe that he was wolf. Yet Creature and DDL were on him. It was beyond me, and the only reason I can see that someone would do it is because they would want to keep as many question marks out there as possible.

I was initially pushing Dyslexicon because their posts felt mostly empty, devoid of reads and I thought they were raising their postcount to look like they were doing something. I later changed my read on Dyslexicon when they came in and started making towny posts and showing no real care for how their posts looked like.

I probably have to study for an important exam I have tomorrow and then I'll have another exam thursday. My week is pretty busy yet I am wasting a lot of time trying to salvage this game (or at least help NANOOK to in some way).

I don't know how to make it obvious I am town because I feel like most players here haven't played with me or don't seem to know me well enough and I don't have any recent wolf game to be used as a reference. I hate being read by standardized tells that mostly seem just playstyle indicative than actually wolf indicative, but sadly I am too lazy to bring all my games to show it's just playstyle. Guess I am forced to trust NANOOK's dictatorship because democracy here clearly isn't working.

My reasons for townreading Dragon D. Luffy come mostly from sheeping Dyslexicon atp I guess, while the other part makes me just hope DDL is town because they're the only other player that seems to be playing and trying to make themselves readable enough.

Guess I'm only seeing Guillotine + falcon rn. Not sure who can be the third.

I think I can see Spacedaisy being town here. If she played with me before she would look hella suspect, but as we never played together she strikes me as a player that just uses standardized tells for everybody even though that is clearly pretty wrong doing.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:21 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:10 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:09 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:38 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:35 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:32 pm Did the rest of the wolves tell you to go hard on me today?

No, that was my intuition saying that.



Also, Space Daisy

Spacedaisy's case was like "creature is playing like textbook wolf but i don't tell you what the textbook wolf is" and "creature is posting hence wolf".

That was not my case, but whatever. I'm done talking about you. Nook has made it apparent he doesn't agree on you so I'm not wasting my time talking about someone I believe is wolf but will never be shot. I will instead be focusing on others today, probably doing some ISO's. But not tonight because I have to work my ass off tonight, fun times.

That would be very appreciated.

Don't act like I haven't talked about anyone else.

Welp, you've only made a list with five possible wolves in which two already flipped town and the other three include someone I townread, falcon and me.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:14 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:12 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:03 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:01 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:00 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:59 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:58 pm

So?

No tells are 100% accurate.

I very much doubt you're keeping stats on how accurate it is

Who the fuck does that

Someone that would then have the standing to say "this id a reliable tell" rather than it being as much nonsense as any other supposed tell

Bro if you don't wanna follow me it's up to you. I like this tell and I like to use it so I'll use it.

Ok. You see how this is useless to anyone not named ddl, yes?

You are not going to convince me to change my mind on Creature by telling me my logic doesn't appeal to people other than me.

I made my point, I think scum may act arrogant about town, if you don't think they do, stop using your precious posts on that subject.

ftr I am known as a very doomerist player. I once predicted town would lose in a mash when it was 34 v 3, besides being known for being very pessimistic and calling the game a loss whenever town started to get things wrong. So it's pretty common for me to complain about the gamestate especially when we're clearly losing here. tbh I am trying to complain less here because that isn't going to be helpful for alignment sorting when we need it the most rn.

It's still pretty discouraging when I am being wolfread by almost everybody and I am failing to have any solid read. I have you as a townread because I have the most reasons to townread you and I am way too tired to visit a world where you're wolf. Even if you're a wolf here, I suppose we can still find the other two wolves. But town needs to act up.

Urist wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:02 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:39 pm Do I follow logic, the dumbest of dumb reads, or consensus?

Weigh in in the comments and don't forget to like and subscribe

we're at even numbers so the correct play is to vote sleep

5 v 3
Lynch wolf
5 v 2
Two NKs
3 v 2
Lynch wolf
3 v 1
One NK
2 v 1
Lynch wolf

Can't no sleep, must get all three wolves right back to back.

Just don't go preflipping me because that's dumb.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:09 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:38 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:35 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:32 pm Did the rest of the wolves tell you to go hard on me today?

No, that was my intuition saying that.



Also, Space Daisy

Spacedaisy's case was like "creature is playing like textbook wolf but i don't tell you what the textbook wolf is" and "creature is posting hence wolf".

That was not my case, but whatever. I'm done talking about you. Nook has made it apparent he doesn't agree on you so I'm not wasting my time talking about someone I believe is wolf but will never be shot. I will instead be focusing on others today, probably doing some ISO's. But not tonight because I have to work my ass off tonight, fun times.

That would be very appreciated.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:00 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:55 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:52 pm You know that "comtempt for town" tell I used to describe Dizzy early on?

I now see it in you.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

I have no idea what that is.

Disdain for town. People have caught me as scum for that before. I have caught people as scum. Some players tend to get arrogant when they are mafia and see town playing badly. Because they know town is the enemy team.

Yeah, it's about as =rand accurate. I've probably had moments I was genuinely pissed at town being bad and moments I was trying to sound genuinely pissed at town being bad.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:58 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:57 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:52 pm You know that "comtempt for town" tell I used to describe Dizzy early on?

I now see it in you.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Dizzy flipped town lol

So?

No tells are 100% accurate.

That tell seems to be wrong twice this game, just like Spacedaisy's XYZ wolf book.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:35 pm Falcon. Speculation required. Does not seem town.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:36 pm Falcon Wolf.

Creature. Dizzy. One or other.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:00 pm ISO Falcon. Town game. This is not.

This doesn't seem w/w.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:52 pm You know that "comtempt for town" tell I used to describe Dizzy early on?

I now see it in you.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

I have no idea what that is.

I am glad Dyslexicon at least came to town up. This game feels depressing when most players seem focused on making cowboy lines and doing minimal participation rather than playing the game.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:41 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:37 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:34 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:31 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:31 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:29 pm Whatever. If you're town, don't get into a tunnel bias and try to actually act town.

I like to think I'm open minded.




Tunneling scum is towny btw

but I'm not wolf so your apparent overconfidence on me looks staged af

Hmmmmm, gonna have to disagree with ya there and say this looks staged.



How is sus of your slot overconfidence?

It doesn't look like you have any reason to wolfread me. Instead, it looks like you're resorting to pressing the same key and using smug cowboy lines as if that's going to make your non-case compelling.

This kinda just reads like a wolf who's upset they're being SR when they think they've been playing a strong town game.




Also ignore the fact that I rarely make "good cases"




Let's pretend your POE isn't 50% OMGUS right now. Who else is in your POE besides Guillo?

I think DDL is my only non-NANOOK townread so almost everyone is in my POE. I'm trying to sort names and so far I think Guillotine fits as a wolf here.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:39 pm Do I follow logic, the dumbest of dumb reads, or consensus?

Weigh in in the comments and don't forget to like and subscribe

I would say follow your own. The consensus seems to be wolves parroting one read without any explanation in order to sound like they hold any cred.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:35 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:32 pm Did the rest of the wolves tell you to go hard on me today?

No, that was my intuition saying that.



Also, Space Daisy

Spacedaisy's case was like "creature is playing like textbook wolf but i don't tell you what the textbook wolf is" and "creature is posting hence wolf".

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:34 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:31 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:31 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:29 pm Whatever. If you're town, don't get into a tunnel bias and try to actually act town.

I like to think I'm open minded.




Tunneling scum is towny btw

but I'm not wolf so your apparent overconfidence on me looks staged af

Hmmmmm, gonna have to disagree with ya there and say this looks staged.



How is sus of your slot overconfidence?

It doesn't look like you have any reason to wolfread me. Instead, it looks like you're resorting to pressing the same key and using smug cowboy lines as if that's going to make your non-case compelling.

From what I have right now:

Town:
Creature
Dragon D. Luffy
NANOOK

Null land:
DrWilgy
Spacedaisy
Urist

Wolves:
falcon
Guillotine

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:31 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:31 pm I don't want this game to be an easy win for wolves.

Too late

We can still win, but we need to get the three wolves consecutively. I really hope whoever is town here actually towns up.

Did the rest of the wolves tell you to go hard on me today?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:31 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:29 pm Whatever. If you're town, don't get into a tunnel bias and try to actually act town.

I like to think I'm open minded.




Tunneling scum is towny btw

but I'm not wolf so your apparent overconfidence on me looks staged af

I don't want this game to be an easy win for wolves.

Whatever. If you're town, don't get into a tunnel bias and try to actually act town.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:23 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:22 pm Okay. This kill surprises me.

Wolfy.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:24 pm I always found your RD 1 town read on me as pockety



[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Not sure if I am fan of this entrance.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:34 pm Ironically daisy is my only lock town atp

I have no idea about Daisy, so I'll probably just put faith in you here.

I think Guillotine is wolf.

Creature
Dragon D. Luffy
DrWilgy
falcon
Guillotine
Spacedaisy
Urist

Four giant pandas and three trash pandas here.

Okay. This kill surprises me.

Hoping NANOOK surprises me.

From what I saw, falcon is still a coinflip to me and probably not very informative.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:54 pm What are the rolls for tonight btw?

At least 50 if 6 giant pandas left
At least 45 if 5 giant pandas left

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:45 pm I don't know about you guys but for me Urist's table extends to saving nanook or not.

I think if anyone is free from saving nanook and believes they have the ability to save someone else, they should consider taking theor chances.

Saving other people is why this setup isn't necessarily scumsided.

Yeah, especially in even nights you almost always have to save someone.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:40 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:51 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:39 pm I guess there is a lesson to be learned about finding an "optimal" mathematical solution that disregards the social aspect of the game and ignores that the game is designed with much higher winning odds for the mafia faction, which town can only overcome through social cohesion.

There should also have a mechanism solution that allows town to attempt to save other players besides the Red Panda. Like, the Marmot and NotAnAxehole kills were pretty predictable and someone could've saved them. I guess I might leave this discussion for postgame because I'm not sure how beneficial it is to talk about it right now.

Yeah, setup is too mafia sided for sure. Extra saves would be ideal.

I think there are enough saves, but we need to make better plans that aren't just saving NANOOK or not saving anyone, because wolves have plenty of kills to reach parity quicker before they cogitate killing NANOOK.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:34 pm Ironically daisy is my only lock town atp

Then that like leaves only hollowkatt for me. Perhaps DrWilgy holds some cred on falcon, but I'm not particularly wolfreading the latter.

I might be misreading Urist maybe?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:33 pm Like that big post from daisy had such a "uh my teammates just told me Im being called out so im gonna throw a salad of reads give me a sec" energy.

Spacedaisy bothers me because they just went automatic "wolfread creature" in a way that I remember doing as wolf (no hesitation, no second doubts, no looking back). I'm giving Spacedaisy space though because it feels like it's her playstyle to minpost and she may just have the wrong notion of how to read me as she never played with me before.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:32 pm I'd shoot hk or daisy before dizzy tbh

Same. Dyslexicon is looking better now.

I guess I ain't putting stock on that Michelle comment post flip. If you're wolf you'd probably know Michelle was flipping wolf.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:28 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:04 am I'm still at hollowkatt + Dyslexicon + Spacedaisy. I think roughly in that order.

Not that it's terribly important, but I don't understand why you scum read me. You're saying things about me that's just not right or contradictory. Like I'm posturing, but also contentless.

Also, people gotta stop using my one throw away comment about Michelle as an excuse as well. It's not that deep. I don't remember Michelle's posts. She seemed fine in passing. I always want her to post more regardless. Half of the things I say D1 is throw away. It's literally meaningless. I didn't know she would flip mafia, simple as that.

I think posturing in the sense of raising post count without really contributing anything to the game. It made you look like you were doing something when you weren't.

tbh Dyslexicon's defense of DDL may be a good look.

Just finished a game: viewtopic.php?t=2282

Sadly I still don't have a recent wolf game to be used for reference (and I personally prefer to keep the streak of ranging town).

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:40 pm Why do I feel like people (aka scum) is avoiding hollowkat

tbh only you and I were voting elsewhere (Dyslexicon and HK). Dyslexicon selfvoted, but never received any more votes other than us.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 4:01 pm I haven't paid much attention to falcon after the truth meta thing tbh.

He doesn't look much different from last game, I think?

I feel unimpressed by falcon so far, but I'm unsure if that is strongly indicative.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:58 pm The setup is fine. I made it (sort of).

The players making the right plays or not are ondependent from that.

The main problem I see here is the general apathy from the players.

Does anyone have a solve that doesn't involve lazyvoting me?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:05 pm Like I'm pretty sure the table is just about whether we save nanook or not. But if we don't then we are free to protect whoever we see fit.

I feel like that's where the misunderstanding happens. Feels like no save could be interpreted as "save your shot".

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:02 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:51 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:39 pm I guess there is a lesson to be learned about finding an "optimal" mathematical solution that disregards the social aspect of the game and ignores that the game is designed with much higher winning odds for the mafia faction, which town can only overcome through social cohesion.

There should also have a mechanism solution that allows town to attempt to save other players besides the Red Panda. Like, the Marmot and NotAnAxehole kills were pretty predictable and someone could've saved them. I guess I might leave this discussion for postgame because I'm not sure how beneficial it is to talk about it right now.

I rolled save nanook last night so that's what I did.

I'm avoiding revealing what I did last night.

Town should at least attempt to solve the game by themselves to make themselves more readable and also make wolves more obvious. Right now I can only hope NANOOK can read through this apathy because I'm definitely failing to.