The Syndicate

How many wolves would we get if we lynched all of Alison/Boquise/MacDougall/staypositivefriend at the same time?

tbh Alison is the only one I townread inside that group and I'm only getting doubts because Mac seems to say otherwise and "muh resolve D1 wagons".

MacDougall I almost called him tunneled town but I feel like I've done the same in Game of Champions 2021 where he was also not making any sense and he ended up being wolf just stirring shit at the thread.

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

Alright I feel like Mac is playing dumb now so we all go like "lol mac is tunneled town" and let him slip away.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:50 pm My vote would've put Alison at +1 if Nook hadn't switched

Weren't the wagons 8-6 before Lilypetal switched to a vanity wagon? Your vote was going to tie it at 7-7 unless you saw Lilypetal's switch to Porscha. Did you see it before voting Alison?

What are your all thoughts on Neon moving from falcon45ca to Alison (which would tie the wagons from 8-6 to 7-7 resulting in a nolynch)? What about Lilypetal moving from the top wagon (also possibly risking a nolynch) to a vanity wagon (Porscha) that would never go through?

Also saying I killed Jack because I spewed him town is lol. If I was wolf I would view Jack as a strong mislynch contender and I refuse to nightkill strong mislynch contenders unless I really really fear Jack.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:38 pm i'm mildly concerned that i cleared creature too easily, and i think it could be a contributing factor for why i'm still alive. creature has made a lot of posts that project paranoia/pessimism about the gamestate, which i think is a distinctly towny trait for him, but i think his play has been lacking in terms of his overall solving

most of the posts that he makes are one-liner, quippy observations that are disconnected from each other and aren't helping to inform his broader worldview, and i think this specific mindset of making a lot of towny-sounding posts in the moment without them building up to something bigger is a lot closer to how he approaches games as a wolf than as town

i also take quite a lot of issue with many of his posts both today and toward the EOD yesterday, i'm put off by him voting boq because "boq would make a gamer kill", when creature would certainly realize that boq would have zero incentive to kill jack if he thought about it for 10 seconds. i'm put off by how quickly creature changed his view on falcon being town once falcon became a viable wagon, and his reasoning for doing so felt overly vague and generalized. in general, i am struggling to see a coherent worldview forming from creature's posts, and i consider that to be a major red flag for him

i'm not really sold on him being mafia, just expressing this thought because it's starting to seem a bit more likely to me

Ftr I always kill in you/Alison/Mac if I'm wolf, maybe Boq. I pretty much commanded the N1 kills in the Midnight Mash and they all were on players I deemed strong (catbae/Gira, julia and a failed kill attempt on Scyther/Mac).

You should probably look for who would make such a nightkill. It is probably someone whk respects Jack and it's possible it could mean the existence of a wolf within the core of you/Alison/Mac/maybe Boq.

I feel like I've spent a lot of my time today trying to figure out this nightkill.

Mac seems to be blatantly misrepresenting Alison's posts. It's almost like he knows he's straight making things up. Prob my biggest drawback is that I feel like Jack is fairly good at reading Mac and he ended townreading him.

I still think Alison is town and I feel like she's only being resolved for yesterday's wagons.

I suspected you last night at some point though. Your EOD seemed all over the place. I'm debating giving you a tad more time to find some wolf so I can clear you if you're town.

Mac doesn't make a single sense here. He is blatantly misrepresenting Alison's reads.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:30 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:28 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:23 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:20 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:18 pm Thing about your rationale about Porscha needing to go over before Creature is that it's heavily biased to the idea that you are town.

If you view a difference check between Porscha/Alison (which I think Alison does, and I think most do), then the same rationale that Alison is using to describe Creature as wolf ONLY with Porscha, also applies to Alison. Ergo Creature is a mafia in worlds where either of them are mafia. He is only town when both of them are town.

@Alison
Yes Mac I do my solving assuming I am town lol. And knowing I am town I believe that Creature is mafia if Porscha is mafia, and Creature is town if Porscha is town. Which is exactly the same conclusion you came to just with the added assumption that I am town.
I dunno why you are refusing to using logic when you are captain logic of all mafia.

I am clearly pointing out that Creature is more likely mafia because by your own solve he is mafia in every world. And you are trying to use that logic to suggest Porscha go over first?

It just feels like a really stupid way to flip town Porscha to clear Creature.
Where Alison ever said that? I only remember one post where Alison considered the world I am wolf where I either saved Porscha (which I did not because I ended up voting there until I was forced to Alison v falcon thunderdome) or just could've sat and ate popcorn in the world all of Alison/falcon/Porscha were town.

Also pretty sure Alison pointed an alternative world where SPF (and Neon I guess?) were wolves with a undefined third player.
Alison has you as always mafia with wolf Porscha and she believes Porscha is always a wolf. I know how Alison thinks and if Alison was town (which, let's be honest she simply is never in 100 years town here and the fact that anyone could believe that she is demonstrates how good she is as a wolf and how bad everyone else is at mafia) Alison would just be tunneling Porscha right now and entirely okay with doming them both and killing the other if one flips town. That is literally all she'd be bothering to do right now. And based on a solve she just produced she has you as wolf with Porscha so right now she'd just be like "fine fuck you mac kill me but please kill creature and porscha immediately afterwards" and yet she is not. Because she is mafia and she is trying to survive and she is also trying to spew at the same time.

There's like nothing townie about her play.

Bruh wtf now you are straight making things up

She never said Porscha and I are always wolves.

Also you're literally saying that her logic is: Porscha is always wolf -> Creature is always wolf if Porscha is wolf -> Therefore Creature is more likely to be wolf than Porscha.

Also Porscha + me world doesn't make a single sense because I would always kill in Alison/Mac/SPF who are the players I fear the most as wolf, unless the third wolf is a straight up full-on-sexual-hormones gambling type of player. In Midnight Mash where I was wolf I ended up nightkilling catbae/Gira, julia and tried to kill Mac so I aalmost always go for SPK if they're town.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:23 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:20 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:18 pm Thing about your rationale about Porscha needing to go over before Creature is that it's heavily biased to the idea that you are town.

If you view a difference check between Porscha/Alison (which I think Alison does, and I think most do), then the same rationale that Alison is using to describe Creature as wolf ONLY with Porscha, also applies to Alison. Ergo Creature is a mafia in worlds where either of them are mafia. He is only town when both of them are town.

@Alison
Yes Mac I do my solving assuming I am town lol. And knowing I am town I believe that Creature is mafia if Porscha is mafia, and Creature is town if Porscha is town. Which is exactly the same conclusion you came to just with the added assumption that I am town.
I dunno why you are refusing to using logic when you are captain logic of all mafia.

I am clearly pointing out that Creature is more likely mafia because by your own solve he is mafia in every world. And you are trying to use that logic to suggest Porscha go over first?

It just feels like a really stupid way to flip town Porscha to clear Creature.

Where Alison ever said that? I only remember one post where Alison considered the world I am wolf where I either saved Porscha (which I did not because I ended up voting there until I was forced to Alison v falcon thunderdome) or just could've sat and ate popcorn in the world all of Alison/falcon/Porscha were town.

Also pretty sure Alison pointed an alternative world where SPF (and Neon I guess?) were wolves with a undefined third player.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:13 pm In worlds where Mac is not wolf...

Porscha/Creature/X
Neon/SPF/X

Are the teams that stand out as being likely to me. I don't know who X is but my first instinct is Lilypetal.

I was pretty fine just staying on falcon45ca. I already had laid my reasons to be suspecting falcon and I could've just sheeped Mac on Porscha being town and falcon being wolf. I didn't need to keep flipflopping between falcon and Porscha and attempt to push Porscha over falcon until Porscha no longer was a viable push. Also I prob just kill Mac here if he is town. He already caught me fairly easily last game.

I dunno about Porscha. Is the volume tell thing true? I still feel suspicious about the Porscha wagon dying in favor of the falcon wagon thunderdoming Alison wagon.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:13 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:33 pm [VOTE: Boquise] aubergine

Alright wolves seem to have at least one player who would do a gamer kill. I have Boquise and Seanzie in mind.

I also feel like I could be wrong on my arogame123 townread the most.
@Creature - why on earth is boq your first thought for who would make a gamer kill in this position? what does wolf!boq gain from making a gamer kill with this type of gamestate? he was widely POE'd yesterday and nearly went over, and jack dying today would accomplish nothing other than eliminate a viable mischop and increase boq's odds of getting pushed on even more

Alright I think Boquise is more because I already suspected him yesterday than the nightkill thing. Though I also feel like wolf!Boquise could've easily made a weird kill to throw off town.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:09 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:06 pm Didn't Jack end up townreading Mac as legacy before dying? How's that a frame kill on Mac?
Mafia sometimes kill town who have incorrect reads/legacys in hopes that living townies will listen to dead townies, ergo one could make a case a scum!Mac team would make that kill to bolster Mac's position in the thread.

This looks like 4D chess. I don't see how someone would go check the mislynch bait player who mysteriously died over a lot better options, see their legacy townread on Mac and go like "yeah mac is wolf based on this". I think the most incriminating thing against Marco is him not dying last night.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:09 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:05 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:02 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:59 pm This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.
You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?
Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.
Mafia Creature sits at EOD, looks at the player list. He knows Mac is town (which I am taking for granted here since you obviously won't help me find worlds where you are mafia), Alison is town, and falcon is town. Alison is wagoned against Porscha. Mac is pushing falcon. I think Creature only steps in to do anything if Porscha is a wolf buddy and he wants to make sure the wagons are Alison/Falcon and not Alison/Porscha. If Mac/Alison/Porscha/falcon are all town then he does not have incentive to do anything besides eat a bag of popcorn and do his usual gloom and doom spiel about how we are voting out townies. Ergo Creature can only be scum with Porscha, ergo we should always go Porscha first before Creature.

Even then I remember I planted my vote on Porscha and only switched to falcon when it was pretty clear the final wagons were going to be you v falcon.

Might not mean much because I'm a compulsive busser, but still I prob had plenty of good reasons to just stay on falcon45ca instead of constantly switching back to Porscha.

Did Porscha hit her volume tell or whatever it was?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:05 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:02 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:59 pm This conversation started as "you're dying, pick your counterwagon" and you responded by pushing me. So trying to make out like I'm trying to shut you down is fucking dumb. You pushed me, I'm pushing you back. If you want room to solve don't attack me, or if you think I'm mafia by all means attack me but don't sulk about getting shut down. That's just indicative that my points are overwhelming to you tbh. You're acting like a beaten wolf.

"Reee no fair, I pushed Mac and he's pushing me back too hard and shutting me down"

^

You right now.
You are mischaracterizing what I said but I don't feel like having another 10 page shouting match that destroys the thread.

You want to give me room to solve, then help me solve. Who is mafia if I am town if not you?
Well Porscha would be highly likely.

I think Creature is also quite likely in either world because him helping me create the Falcon wagon (and then hedging off it and making me look like the primary exponent) can be counterwagoning a town to save either of you.

After which I'd be looking at players like Lily/Neon.

And my tinfoil on SPF would eventually overwhelm and consume me at some point.

Ftr I was voting Porscha over falcon EOD until I finally had to switch to falcon45ca to save Alison and prevent a tie.

Didn't Jack end up townreading Mac as legacy before dying? How's that a frame kill on Mac?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:00 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:58 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:39 pm Porscha, Creature, Falcon all town. Going back to my meta of only being able to find townies.
Bleh was Jack nightkilled for speaking against the status quo?
Jack was night killed by you so why don't you tell us?

If I was in charge of the nightkill I would've prob killed you. That is, unless you're a wolf with me, but then you would be the one choosing the nightkill presumably. Or possibly Seanzie, he also feels like a player to make absurd-looking nightkills.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:39 pm Porscha, Creature, Falcon all town. Going back to my meta of only being able to find townies.

Bleh was Jack nightkilled for speaking against the status quo?

Bleh I hate how the falcon45ca wagon suddenly came up when we were previously on Porscha. I guess there's a lot more going on within falcon45ca being pushed as one of the two top wagons over Porscha than the Alison v falcon45ca final wagons yesterday.

Ironically I had staypositivefriend noted as all over the place in my diary.

I keep getting concerned about her. Does she look like she is genuinely trying to solve the game or just making the Wonder Woman pose and pushing town off a cliff?

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:44 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:37 pm Actually Neon's switch looks kinda weird considering before Lilypetal's switch to Porscha the wagons were 8-6 and Neon's switch would put it to 7-7.

Lilypetal's switch to a vanity wagon is so outrageously bad I doubt it ever comes from wolf.
No?

TWTBW isn't a thing. Lilypetal's switch seemed to have been motivated more by a desire to avoid being on a town wagon than a genuine belief that it would improve the gamestate or lead to a better EOD flip.

Switching to a vanity wagon and risking a tie which is pretty antitown is objectively worse than staying oj a mislynch wagon. I just can't make it wolf!Lilypetal, who was like pretty safe at the end of the day, would suddenly make that vote switch that is objectively antitown and potentially outing for her, unless she had a stroke or something.

arogame123 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:37 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:33 pm [VOTE: Boquise] aubergine

Alright wolves seem to have at least one player who would do a gamer kill. I have Boquise and Seanzie in mind.

I also feel like I could be wrong on my arogame123 townread the most.
??? Is this because of the sheeping deal? For the record, I wanted to kill Porscha at EoD and had to leave, but rather than having my vote in a vanity wagon, I'd rather vote with my towns and place it on a competing wagon in EoD. Esp when yall were confident about it. Gave me PTSD to my prev games.

You did something similar where u sr Alison towards EoD and then dropped it. I still think you might be slightly townie, but I am kinda confused lol

I don't know what was the sheeping deal. All I know is that I wanted Jack and Porscha dead the most yesterday before Mac bruteforced a falcon45ca lynch.

The Jack kill is so weird that we could prob narrow down the players who would make such a kill on a top mislynch bait. I've done unusual kills as wolf before when I was well-positioned, but it was always on mildly strong players that were unlikely to ever be mislynched.

Actually Neon's switch looks kinda weird considering before Lilypetal's switch to Porscha the wagons were 8-6 and Neon's switch would put it to 7-7.

Lilypetal's switch to a vanity wagon is so outrageously bad I doubt it ever comes from wolf.

Ftr Lilypetal moved to Porscha, Neon moved to Alison and NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME moved to falcon45ca last EOD.

Pretty sure NANOOK did so to avoid a tie. Lilypetal I thought was towny and I already cited reasons somewhere. Neon is the most interesting switch.

[VOTE: Boquise] aubergine

Alright wolves seem to have at least one player who would do a gamer kill. I have Boquise and Seanzie in mind.

I also feel like I could be wrong on my arogame123 townread the most.

Nightkill kinda points that the wolfteam isn't in danger or at least two of the wolves are fairly deep/well-positioned.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:27 pm Also I don't make gamer kills, I literally just got banned on MU for screaming at my wolf partner trying to make a gamer kill.

Yeah this is what I thought about you in 1894.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:22 pm So I am taking this kill as a direct attack on me lol.

So I suspect that the mafia are going to either try to push me hard today or at the very least they are trying to undermine me.

@Creature can you articulate why you are suspicious of me?

It feels like your push on falcon45ca was pure OMGUS which feels a lot more like your typical wolfgame of reacting violently against your pushers. I also was kinda counting that you would be nightkilled last night if you were town. tbh I can kinda see wolf!Alison deciding not to kill you, but if Alison is town wolves could easily just nightkill you when your reads were shit. This is why I believe there's at least one wolf within you and Alison. Also this is a thought I already had before the night ended that I would've probably dropped if you died last night.

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:59 pm [VOTE: porscha] aubergine

I feel like wolf!Lilypetal would be aware switching votes at EOD would be pretty outing for her which makes me believe she would never do this as wolf considering her position was good at the time of this vote. I think this most derives from a town who panicked at falcon45ca leaving a towny post when it was already too late.

Would wolf!Alison ever allow such kill?

Also I'm concerned about spf too.

The Jack kill is weird. He was likely getting mislynched as of yesterday. That probably points towards the wolfteam not being a bunch of bananas who would prob just kill one of the top townread players (Mac, arogame, maybe spf and the like).

Alright my townreads from last night were arogame123, Lilypetal, lucy and Neon.

I think Alison/Mac contains at least one wolf.

Uh what?

NK me all you want.

I ain't leaving legacies.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:59 pm You guys are dumb, I'm town

Oh shit this was a mislynch indeed

Will wolves NK me tonight?

This is a bit fucked up.

Still not changing my vote even if I change my mind.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:56 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:52 pm Whatever let's hope Mac is right (or bussing)

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine
You're so fucking sus. You have your own reasons for sussing Falcon but you just keep pushing this like I'm solely responsible for it in the most calculated ways. I already told you I'm conflicted on him two separate times.

Meh

tbh I'm finding it hard wolves decided to strongarm a mislynch on Alison. Something feels off.

I still hope this isn't another D1 falcon mislynch.

Bleh now we don't change votes

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:53 pm Where even are creature boq and lily?

I just voted falcon to save Alison

Whatever let's hope Mac is right (or bussing)

[VOTE: falcon45ca] aubergine

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:50 pm @Creature are you gonna vote falcon

Perhaps. I'm just staying on Porscha incase we decide to go for her over falcon.

I'll prob stay around to vote the counterwagon to Alison. I'm just not feeling her today.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:47 pm I was going to say something like "If I go over, sorry y'all, I was just too busy to put in adequate time into the game so I just farted around", but now I look like I'm not going to die.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine to keep things spicy though.

See y'all tomorrow (this time for realzies)

Do you have a strong read on Alison or are you just doing it for the spice?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:45 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:43 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:42 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:42 pm I'm between Falcon and Porscha ftr. Could also do Jack.
Not Rondo?
Idk I feel like he enjoyed wolfing a lot more in Halvosen Ridge.
Or, and hear me out because this could sound crazy.

I subbed in late on a work night, couldnt be fucked reading 26 pages and phoned it in.

Mac should know this. Mac is suss for pushing me as obvious low hanging fruit

I'm giving you the benefit of diubt because it looks like you're just fucking around. Though you're becoming a popular contender for a compromise lynch if we can't decide between Falcon and Porscha.

Alison says Falcon is town and Mac says Falcon is wolf.

Mac says Porscha is town and Alison says Porscha is wolf.

So what is it?

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