The Syndicate

Can I vote for speedchuck then

Or maybe I’m too focused on the “people pushing me for bad reasons” genre

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:25 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:22 pm I don’t even care if this is a pocket tbh, I’m bought and paid for
I should probably talk mafia philosophy a different time, but I can't help but at least voice a quick opinion here.

The pocket is always worth it to me to work with towncore. Just because I got pocketed and lose in an F3 or something occasionally, as intensely crushing as that is (it took me days to not be depressed after losing to Mexal in my S5 qualifier, because that's how much this game means to me), doesn't mean the method of forming towncores isn't sound. It absolutely is. It helps to win games. It helps to foster cooperation. It can help crunch scum teams even in tough games. It's worth the downside, especially when you have solid town players in the core who are able and willing to re-assess.

I 100% agree, especially when I know the players better/have a better feel for them towncore is my preferred method of playing.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:22 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:20 pm Secret vote is perfect for resolving a slot like sloonei/poison. Idk about you guys but I’m going to have a very hard time ever letting that slot get to LYLO, and since everyone is apparently so queasy about using a TK on a non entity slot this way lets them get over it a bit easier maybe?

Idk but I feel like two consecutive days of nothing from that slot needs to be resolved. Ironically I think sloonei is the person that would most agree with me
I support this, although I do wonder whether Sloonei or Wilgy would be the better choice as of this time.

Tbh I forgot wilgy was in this game, so. Either is fine, probably slight preference for the twice replaced slot but I doubt wilgy has many posts if I can’t even remember he’s playing lol

I don’t even care if this is a pocket tbh, I’m bought and paid for

Can you play every game with me

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:17 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:29 pm I’m not telling anyone to play the way I do, I’m just annoyed at “I don’t play/think that way so you shouldn’t either” reads. They’re fucking obnoxious.
I... couldn't relate to this more.

<3

Secret vote is perfect for resolving a slot like sloonei/poison. Idk about you guys but I’m going to have a very hard time ever letting that slot get to LYLO, and since everyone is apparently so queasy about using a TK on a non entity slot this way lets them get over it a bit easier maybe?

Idk but I feel like two consecutive days of nothing from that slot needs to be resolved. Ironically I think sloonei is the person that would most agree with me

That suits me!

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:10 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:06 pm I remember promising to pull a link to something for someone but I don’t remember what or who.

If that was you please stand up and be recognized.
You offered to give me a link to a civ game where you got really frustrated but I don't need it, I believe you. If there is someone else who wants it they can speak up.

Oh yeah!

I feel like jack asked me for a link but idk and tbh I’m too lazy to look back.

I remember promising to pull a link to something for someone but I don’t remember what or who.

If that was you please stand up and be recognized.

He seems like he’d know, I believe him.

I don’t really want to kill MP tbh

Yes I know the tie thing doesn’t look great when it functionally saved radishes but my gut says he’s town

Also a reason I can’t really say cause it involves an ongoing game.

Ok at least I haven’t completely lost it lmao

Did I lose track of an entire day or am I just used to 72 hour days? Would like to know if I’ve lost all my marbles or still have some left

Holy shit the day ends today, I thought I had another day to tell people how bad they’re playing

Doesn’t day end in like 25 hours?

My reads seem to be close to inverse the general consensus (or at least the loud people), idk if that’s because they’re SRing me and that’s the disconnect or if I’m very wrong or if some of the loud people are mafia and/or playing poorly.

Whatever it is it’s somewhat disconcerting. You should all come around to my way of thinking, that would be much nicer for me tbh.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:08 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:38 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:06 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:05 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:03 pm Like regardless of my alignment, I’m going to talk to people as if they’re town. Otherwise what’s the point of talking to them at all. SRing me for that is almost as bad as “nanook can’t SR anyone!” which is also demonstrably, patently false.

So yeah, do better, regardless of your alignment.
You've literally said the same two sentences three times now. I don't understand them. Why the fuck would you not engage people you suspect? You're doing it right now, no? Or not, because you don't actually suspect me.
Way to twist my words. I didn’t say I don’t talk to people I suspect, I said I don’t talk to people as if they’re mafia.. There’s no point in it!
Treating everyone as hostile, as if they are Mafia, is a great way to hunt. I don't know why you would say otherwise.
LC and Jack calling it
This is actually a massive strategic divide I think we can create two camps relatively easily and I’ve never heard it discussed before

Ily bb

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:16 pm Master Radishes
3 Voters: Dragon D. Luffy, speedchuck, Hyena

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
4 Voters: Long Con, sig, 112, nutella

sig
5 Voters: NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, juliets, M Plus 7, Jackofhearts2005, TonyStarkPrime

TonyStarkPrime
1 Voter: Master Radishes

OBSERVE~!

There was a save on Sig at the end of the game, and I think MP and Nanook need to help answer for it.
Why? How do I know it was coordinated, and not a random lynch?

Because MR wasn't even worried enough to self-preserve. (If Nanook is scum, it makes self-preserving more dicey as well)

But IDK what the order of the votes were and my wife wants me to help in the kitchen, so discuss please. Hyena looks bloody great IMO. 2 confirmed town voting for Nanook here. At least 1 or 2 scum on Sig, especially if Nanook is bad.

My Sig switch was last minute self prez. I was on MR before that and happy with him going down.

That said I was actively SRing Sig so it’s fair to scrutinize me for that. I think if I were partners with radishes I *probably* try to get more traction on Sig before taking a deal that would seemingly kill my partner, but idk.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:07 pm @nutella, regarding Nanook:

He started the game out as the same Nanook I know from previous games where he's been civ. One liners and such.

He said he thought Tony was town because Tony leaned town for his thinking Alex Jones was town after you and Nanook said differently. I thought that was a decent read.

Said he was pro-lurker kills which for whatever reason surprised me but I didn't read that as bad.

He did not town read 112 as town because of her progression on MR and felt it was a way to just get him (Nanook) out of the game. He also said if he had his choice he would vote her or sig. I read 112 as town but we don't have to agree on reads to both be civs. Also, her progression on MR did turn out to be wrong. I could see why someone said he could have been on a team that killed her.

He didn't like your thoughts on needing to lynch MP because he would be impossible to get out later. I didn't really like that either so I don't see that as wrong headed.

Made a deal with Hyena to self preserve by voting for MR. It's not AI, he could have done that good or bad but I can't hold that against him. He then voted sig to self preserve and avoid a tie, I think that was in the last minutes.

Then there is the disagreement between you and he. I don't know what to make of that honestly. I don't think I've ever seen Nanook that frustrated. I don't know whether thats something that happens when he's bad or he's town or it's NAI. Can someone who's played with Nanook when he's bad weigh in on whether you see this as AI?

So in the end, I'm not seeing anything saying "scum" to mean loud letters but nutella I know you feel differently. It would be helpful if you could give me your read on his game so far.

My frustration is generally not AI. I can point to a game I was intensely frustrated as town too if needed.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:02 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:00 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:49 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:21 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:19 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:18 pm I think he just likes playing with me and prioritized that over TRs.
If it's just that, or some combination of that and giving you another phase to prove yourself, I guess I can understand that but I still find it sketchy
It’s literally the same as “I haven’t played with MP in a long time so I’m not TKing him D1.”

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:21 pm You know, unless player B is my scumbuddy.

Can you explain what you mean by quoting these two posts? The second quote was a continuation of my previous post and it got linki'd but I posted before reading Nanook's intervening post so these are not directly connected. Though they are on the same topic.
Yeah I was reading the whole thread. I could add more quoted posts.

Was it you who said “I haven’t played with MP in a long time so I’m not TKing him D1.” ?

And nanook quoted that as an example of the same thing he's doing, while you said you wouldn't do it unless it was your scumbuddy.

IDK it's probably nothing but I found it amusing. On second thought I don't think that was even your quote, but I feel like someone said it.

I think long con said it IIRC

Hahahahahaha

Get wrekt nutella

I mean I’m sure I do sometimes, I just try not to.

Also “let’s move on now when it’s convenient for me” doesn’t work for me

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:31 pm @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME here's the thing. Many's the time I have engaged with a suspect, in a way such that I was treating them as scum/assuming they were scum, and because of that interaction actually ended up changing my mind about them. So don't try to tell me it's never productive. I understand if it's not the way you play, I also like to give people the benefit of the doubt wherever possible and treat people as if they're town whenever it feels reasonable and productive to do so. I'm not trying to shit on you for saying that's the way you play. But when you say things like "otherwise what's the point?" it feels rude and as if you are trying to shit on the way others play. I hope that clears up why I was set off by the way you said that. Let's move on now.

It’s not productive or fun FOR ME. You can do whatever the fuck you want

I’m not telling anyone to play the way I do, I’m just annoyed at “I don’t play/think that way so you shouldn’t either” reads. They’re fucking obnoxious.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:23 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:20 pm Holy fuck I didn’t say I don’t talk to my scumreads

I said I don’t talk to people as if they’re mafia.

Like jfc people
I knew that. I was just testing you.

Can you like to you saying that?

The idea that you assume everyone is town is weird too. Like...the whole game is about trying to figure out who is a wolf and if you assume nobody is a wolf *fart noises*

Yeah I didn’t say I assume nobody is a wolf either.

Ok, let’s say that I think someone is 90% mafia. If I talk to them or engage in thread with them, I’m going to do so as if I’m in that 10% world where they’re town. That doesn’t mean I no longer think they’re scum, but I find this approach considerably more productive. Especially since my reads on most people are roughly rand, meaning that most of the people I talk to are, in fact, town.

Besides that, it makes for a much more enjoyable game imo.

I can link to a game later where I talked to a scumread as if they were town (and continued scumreading them).

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:21 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:20 pm Holy fuck I didn’t say I don’t talk to my scumreads

I said I don’t talk to people as if they’re mafia.

Like jfc people
I understood that the entire time. Everything I said was in reference to that. I engage with suspects specifically addressing them as suspects and what I said and what jack said still holds.

That is clearly and patently bullshit. I’ll pull quotes tonight when I’m not on my phone.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:11 pm @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME can you link to a towngame where you said you don't engage with your scumreads or similar?

No. Because that isn’t what I fucking said

Holy fuck I didn’t say I don’t talk to my scumreads

I said I don’t talk to people as if they’re mafia.

Like jfc people

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:50 pm Stepping back from the confrontation and commenting on it externally: In games I've played with Nanook where we were both town, I don't think we butted heads nearly this much; in fact I think I often understood his perspective better than others did when he was under scrutiny. Here we've had multiple arguments/miscommunications/disagreements about our approaches to the game (as they have applied specifically in this game) and he's been really eager to shit on me for petty differences in perspective. Not the kind of interactions I'd personally expect to have with a town Nanook. I think he is extra touchy on the details because he is scum and I'm catching on.

Massive eye roll. 3/4 of your “case” is that I’m lying about mafia philosophy combined with completely twisting what I said into something else.

So yes I’m pretty frustrated with you.

I’m going back to ignoring this now, that’s what I get for trying to engage

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:41 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:34 pm Reading someone based off “I would do X but they did Y” is very rarely an accurate or good way to read someone. Especially someone that’s as markedly different as hyena is from nutella.

It’s lazy at best and a cheap way to build a fake case if you’re mafia.
You are willfully misinterpreting the way I am approaching this.

I never said that he is bad because he did something I wouldn't have done. I just posed that as a way of asking and trying to think about why he might have done it.

WOW the irony and/or hypocrisy, ok

Reading someone based off “I would do X but they did Y” is very rarely an accurate or good way to read someone. Especially someone that’s as markedly different as hyena is from nutella.

It’s lazy at best and a cheap way to build a fake case if you’re mafia.

Why is what you would do a valid way to read hyena?

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:19 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:18 pm I think he just likes playing with me and prioritized that over TRs.
If it's just that, or some combination of that and giving you another phase to prove yourself, I guess I can understand that but I still find it sketchy

It’s literally the same as “I haven’t played with MP in a long time so I’m not TKing him D1.”

That’s how I read it anyways

I think he just likes playing with me and prioritized that over TRs.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:49 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:45 pm I assume she doesn’t have the same radiant “look at me I’m town!” aura about her.
And you think she has that here??

Clearly, or I wouldn’t have said she’s >rand town.

I assume she doesn’t have the same radiant “look at me I’m town!” aura about her.

Juliets is >rand town

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:10 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:08 pm It’s only bizarre if you completely ignore what I’m actually saying and twist it entirely differently

I say this with all seriousness, actually read what I’m saying, until then fuck off.

And I genuinely hope you’re Mafia cause jfc if you’re doing this as town.
Yes I get what you said. But I talk to people as if they're mafia all the time and it produces valuable thread content.

Good for you. I disagree on the value and rarely do it.

I’m stepping away now, I don’t have the capacity to deal with this crap while I’m exhausted.

Nutella, you know I love you and I’m sorry for cursing you out, please do better regardless of your alignment cause this is pretty frustrating.

It’s only bizarre if you completely ignore what I’m actually saying and twist it entirely differently

I say this with all seriousness, actually read what I’m saying, until then fuck off.

And I genuinely hope you’re Mafia cause jfc if you’re doing this as town.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:05 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:03 pm Like regardless of my alignment, I’m going to talk to people as if they’re town. Otherwise what’s the point of talking to them at all. SRing me for that is almost as bad as “nanook can’t SR anyone!” which is also demonstrably, patently false.

So yeah, do better, regardless of your alignment.
You've literally said the same two sentences three times now. I don't understand them. Why the fuck would you not engage people you suspect? You're doing it right now, no? Or not, because you don't actually suspect me.

Way to twist my words. I didn’t say I don’t talk to people I suspect, I said I don’t talk to people as if they’re mafia.. There’s no point in it!

Like Jesus fuck, there’s no point talking to someone as if they’re mafia. You’re not gonna convince mafia you’re right, and if they’re town you just make the game shitty and unfun for them.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:02 pm Wtf do you mean "otherwise why bother" literally what the fuck game are you playing where that's a thing

Why would I talk to mafia nutella? Am I going to convince them my case is so good they should in fact vote themselves?

Like regardless of my alignment, I’m going to talk to people as if they’re town. Otherwise what’s the point of talking to them at all. SRing me for that is almost as bad as “nanook can’t SR anyone!” which is also demonstrably, patently false.

So yeah, do better, regardless of your alignment.

I really hope you’re mafia cause this is pure trash

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