The Syndicate

I'm going to be honest and say I have absolutely no idea what Oddmerta has been saying or been trying to say the entirety of this page. Odd, it would be good if you could restate your reads in simpler terms, "X is <alignment> because Y" style, so I can get a grasp on what you're trying to say and why.

Also good to see Hally on the same page with everyone else.

OMGUS is NAI in a vacuum, by the way. If it was alignment indicative I'd even be inclined to say it was slightly townie because townies are more likely to be self-righteously indignant/annoyed at getting scumread incorrectly. It's so easy to fake that it's not actually AI though.

I doubt it's correct to give a long drawn out response to ted's wall tbh so I'm just going to say we have different ways of playing mafia and leave it at that. I also don't think it's AI anyway.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:45 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:33 am Why JPIC and not sprityo? What is your read on sprityo/the pair of them together?
I thought JPIC's latter entry to the thread read diametrically opposite to what his initial one was to his push, and it reads artificial / made up.

He looks like he doesn't really care why he's being pushed at the moment by 3 people, whereas I think town him that thinks he's LHF being pushed by wolves would explore that world more instead of just trolling.

Okay, what about sprityo then?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:07 am
tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:04 am Wilgy - how did your Mac read evolve? Are you town reading him now?
I'm townreading him. His ability to turn RVS/Meme phase is an exceptional skill that I'm quite envious of. Even if he's not town the momentum his content brings means we should keep him around.

Mac's secret to transitioning from RVS into the real game (do not open):

Spoiler: show

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:18 am The closest wagon to hitting a wolf is probably jpic at the moment based off what I'm reading in thread and I don't even know if that means too much, as in, he could still be a town but at least the reasoning for him looks the best out of everything that has been listed in thread as a scum lean, which is a pretty low bar to beat.

I didn't pay as much attention at first because I just steam roll gifs and not think that much about the game D1 but I'll prolly do a re-read at one point in case the game is still as unreadable tomorrow morning and I'll force myself to take stances.

I generally tend to pick on stuff here and there but everyone feels about rand.

Prioritise getting info out of dya / nutella / hally when they're here please, there are about 2-3 slots that have not talked at all and plenty others that haven't gotten out of RVS yet which is a bad atmosphere to start the hunting from because you're forcing yourself to hunt in a select pool of people when 10 others haven't even posted AI content.

Agree with the last paragraph, but nutella and Hally don't really slank so I'm confident that they'll produce content of their own accord. We can talk about this again if it's a day phase or two down the road and they're still AWOL.

Why JPIC and not sprityo? What is your read on sprityo/the pair of them together? (I posited above that they're probably V/W because they have too much scum equity combined to both be completely innocent, but that the interaction between them makes it unlikely to be W/W.)

(Offtopic, but probably can't post outside of this thread since OGI)

In case anyone is interested about my read stats off the last 4 games:

Spoiler: show

Alright, Dizzy's town.

It's actually surprisingly difficult because reads evolve throughout the game so I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take my reads at the end of the game (which would be skewed because less players = more chance of being right by default) or my Day 1 reads (which would be skewed because it doesn't take into account my progression throughout the game).

Hmm, now I'm interested how far my reads are from rand. This is a low sample size but I'll just start with all my Syndicate town games and see.

tutuu is town so I'm trying to take her townread on ted seriously but it's so difficult when he keeps making posts like this

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:23 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:14 am Okay JPIC, here's the good news. I think sprit and you both look bad but I also don't think you can be wolves together and the way sprit tried to turn the subject to you when under pressure indicates that you're the town of that pair. Here's your chance to show me you're town. Tell me where your head is at with the gamestate atm. Do you feel optimistic about the mass of people all heavily townreading each other? Do you have any reads you feel strongly about?
/looking at powerwolfing article from thingy

*ahem*

Spirit is clearly a wolf. I see the wolves have no shame and once again are trying to get me mislynched like U-Pick. Disgraceful behaviour.

Do I feel optimistic about everyone townreading each other? Not really. My strongest townread is myself.

I feel like you're referencing something about that article but it's long and many parts of it could theoretically apply to this game so I'm going to need you to spell out what it is you mean exactly.

Okay JPIC, here's the good news. I think sprit and you both look bad but I also don't think you can be wolves together and the way sprit tried to turn the subject to you when under pressure indicates that you're the town of that pair. Here's your chance to show me you're town. Tell me where your head is at with the gamestate atm. Do you feel optimistic about the mass of people all heavily townreading each other? Do you have any reads you feel strongly about?

Why did you get so exasperated at him scumreading you if that's your stance?

I wish I could power wolf every game, but unfortunately I sometimes roll town.

Your "let's talk about JPIC" thing feels like an awkward attempt to redirect the subject to JPIC now (probably because JPIC is one of the people perceived to be scummier than you) that you've admitted there's actually nothing legitimate to talk about.

Also "Mac's reads are all wrong, Mac's case on JPIC is bullshit, but I'll go ahead and sheep Mac onto JPIC anyways" is super bad.

Also I don't think JPIC and sprityo can be wolf together now so I'm wrongly scumreading one of them.

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

In no particular order:

[Super Town]
Alison
Oddmerta
MacDougall
Master Radishes
tutuu
Timsup2nothin
Poison Chan

[Town]
Wilgy
Dizzy
Hally
Herm
nanook
nutella
SPF

[???]
Colin
dyachei
Fallen Prince
Long Con
Samusamu

[Mafia]
JPIC
sprityo
tedxtr

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:43 am Ok you're town

wow, this is your second bait and switch of the day

removing linki was a mistake

(I stand by my read though)

Okay, I'm convinced, sprit is scummy.

Specifically what persuaded me was the way sprit declined multiple opportunities to earn Mac's townread by saying "yeah I think Mac is scum for misreading me". Regardless of how accurate the meta tell is, I think town are generally a lot more likely to just be like "yeah, yeah, I'm town, here's what you want, now leave me alone so I can slank/solve/lead/whatever", whereas mafia tends to be naturally be inclined towards being more self-conscious and less likely to "blatantly" try to grab towncred because they're paranoid it looks bad or it could be a trap.

Naturally this doesn't apply if the scum player in question is good enough to do audacious things to get townread but sprit doesn't seem like a particularly audacious player so I'm just seeing this as scum.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:38 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:37 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:36 am Sprityo is outing by not omgussing me tbh
wait, tell me more about this
Town Sprityo thinks Mac misreading him means I'm mafia generally.

Is this like a one-game meta or is it an established pattern?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:36 am Sprityo is outing by not omgussing me tbh

wait, tell me more about this

I wonder how often mafia uses the "I'm always scumread every game, I'm just LHF leave me alone" defense or its variants. I feel like my experience is that the defense is >rand town because it's easier to get exasperated at being scumread a ton if the scumread is actually unjustified. If it's justified I think scum!sprit is more likely to internally go "wow Mac's a great reader, he always catches me" and try to placate or pocket him, rather than "here you go again, wrong as usual".

I have only low-moderate confidence in this theory though.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:30 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:28 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:25 am Hey guys Sprityo and JPIC are naked mafia.
Sprityo has town energy tbh
Citation needed

I think sprityo doesn't care that he's being scumread, but JPIC makes a show of not caring while actually caring. (See: "I better get a good reason why I'm being scumread" -> "screw you guys I'm drinking coffee and definitely not caring about the game".)

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:28 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:25 am Hey guys Sprityo and JPIC are naked mafia.
after JPIC was being scumread and demanding explanation and noone entertained him he posted this

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:14 am I am drinking coffee.
completely unashamed, with proper capitalization and punctuation. to make it as unashamed and in-your-face as possible

i thought it was towny trolling

what do u think

I'm not Mac but this is NAI.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:25 am Hey guys Sprityo and JPIC are naked mafia.

Sprityo has town energy tbh

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:20 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:16 am Unfortunately for that theory, Oddmerta isn't a wolf and you're completely barking up the wrong tree. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There seems to be an odd amount of certainty in this post.

Yeah.

Unfortunately for that theory, Oddmerta isn't a wolf and you're completely barking up the wrong tree. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:01 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:58 am Yeah tim if you can’t find multiple mafia D1 are you even trying tbh
all alison was doing is try to be diplomatic and defend oddmerta, "find the wolf buddies" wasnt a proactive request

i mean its not that big a deal but i feel like u posted this as if alison was snarky

In this context, "find the wolf buddies" means "back off the read on Oddmerta for now since I disagree with it and so does everyone else, and try to solve the rest of the game". I want Tim working with the rest of the town to solve the game and show off his towniness, not digging himself into a hole by extending a fruitless push on a widely townread player.

Tim, I think you're town but not everyone does. And you think Oddmerta is wolf but everyone else disagrees. I think you're super valuable to the town if you can get your way out of the POE and into the trusted list, so I'm going to shield you and use my clout to get people to trust you. And in return, I want you to trust me about my read of Oddmerta. If you're still convinced Odd is wolfing, fine. He must have buddies. Find those buddies.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:50 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:39 am
Spoiler: show
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:36 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:22 am
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:17 am
Spoiler: show
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:04 am
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:58 am
I was looking for a connection between ted and yourself, he basically avoided answering my question about your borderline omgus vote wth flimsy reasoning behind it. That's connection enough for me
LOL...I'll give you another connection.

The last game I played with Ted he came out with a totally unsupported "Tim seems scummy" just like you have done here.

I voted for him then, just like I voted for you here.

He cried about it being a "borderline OMGUS vote with flimsy reasoning" just like you are doing here.

After some back and forth he sort of tucked his wolf tail and ran because I wasn't the easy mischop he was hoping for.

So, are you a wolf this game just like he was that game?
@tedxtr is any of this true?
Ted seems to have dipped, but there are plenty of players here who also played UPick2, so getting confirmation should be easy enough.

Why are you so focused on asking Ted stuff? Do you not care what anyone else thinks?
It is strange that ted had no opinion of your vote on me and you say that this has all happened before in a previous game involving you and him specifically

And I do care what other people think
@Timsup2nothin come on. This is not a wolf trying to push some shady agenda. This is town who thinks they've found a lead and are suspicious that they're getting pushback on it. This is a townie response.
The strange parallels continue. There were people saying almost this exact thing about Ted in Upick2. They were right, in that it was "a very townie response" from Ted then. The problem was that later we found out Ted was actually a wolf.

Okay but Oddmerta isn't Ted and this isn't UPick 2 and this isn't an actual argument why Oddmerta is wolfing despite a townie response.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:40 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:38 am Why do you townread ted, tutuu?
towny hypocrisy in posting that cringe gif at me for scumreading him, as if it was a gotcha moment

"haha tutuu u called me ridiculous for scumreading u, but look at u, YOU SCUMREAD ME URSELF, HAHA!" *cringe gif*

completely unabashed, unashamed, disregarding how he comes off as, as if he forgot he literally said he purposely played scummy

when i feel this kind of emotion towards a player they're usually town

This is more useful in confirming you as town than ted, but I think these are actual good points about ted.

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:36 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:22 am
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:17 am
Spoiler: show
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:04 am
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:58 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:48 am
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:38 am
Because he said he would rescind his townread on me if I happened to be an experienced player and I told him that I was an experienced player but I didn't see him rescind the townread
I thought you were asking him about my vote, which is currently on you.

I couldn't guess why out of everyone available to ask for an opinion regarding my vote, you asked Ted.

Did you expect Ted specifically to offer something you could build on?
I was looking for a connection between ted and yourself, he basically avoided answering my question about your borderline omgus vote wth flimsy reasoning behind it. That's connection enough for me
LOL...I'll give you another connection.

The last game I played with Ted he came out with a totally unsupported "Tim seems scummy" just like you have done here.

I voted for him then, just like I voted for you here.

He cried about it being a "borderline OMGUS vote with flimsy reasoning" just like you are doing here.

After some back and forth he sort of tucked his wolf tail and ran because I wasn't the easy mischop he was hoping for.

So, are you a wolf this game just like he was that game?
@tedxtr is any of this true?
Ted seems to have dipped, but there are plenty of players here who also played UPick2, so getting confirmation should be easy enough.

Why are you so focused on asking Ted stuff? Do you not care what anyone else thinks?
It is strange that ted had no opinion of your vote on me and you say that this has all happened before in a previous game involving you and him specifically

And I do care what other people think

[mention]Timsup2nothin[/mention] come on. This is not a wolf trying to push some shady agenda. This is town who thinks they've found a lead and are suspicious that they're getting pushback on it. This is a townie response.

Why do you townread ted, tutuu?

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:51 am Im silly for scumreading u after u literally said u purposely played scummy?

this is probably towny hypocrisy but i gotta say, im not surprised mafia wins game after game on the syndicate if this is how low the bar is set for the towngames of the goat wolves

To be fair this could well be ted's non-towngame so who knows

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:38 am
Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:24 am
Oddmerta wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:07 am @tedxtr do you still have a townread on me amd what do you think about timsup2nothing's vote?
Why do you think, out of all the players, that Ted's opinion is the one worth asking for specifically?
Because he said he would rescind his townread on me if I happened to be an experienced player and I told him that I was an experienced player but I didn't see him rescind the townread

It's because he doesn't actually care about your level of experience. That whole thing about it being conditional based on your level of experience was something he made up on the spot because he thought it sounded good.

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:32 am I was more clowning Ted than attacking him, but will take a town read any way I can get it. I am in a sort of 'low intensity, just get town read and save the town from mischopping me, do serious work later' headspace.

this is also town tbh

Alright, we need to cut down on the fluffposting a bit, a little bit is fine but not if it genuinely spams the thread.

Poison and MR continue to look good. Ted is scum. Tentative townlean on Tim. Well within his scumrange, but I think wolf Tim has better things to do here than attack Ted.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:20 am Randed conditional seer so I will now request that you all provide good hypo so wolves don’t know it’s me

The outcome of the game will solely be based off the level of hypoing

hypo n0 red check on tedxtr

I am quite serious about my ted read by the way. He genuinely feels sort of demotivated and lazy in the way I'd expect him to be if he rolled scum yet again and then has to deal with this gamestate. The fact that his content has consisted solely of of deflections/jokes is in this context >rand scum.

[VOTE: ted] aubergine

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:00 am I better hear a good damn reason why I am being scumread right now

Since nobody else is going to give you a serious answer I'll just tell you that for me, it's less of scumreading you specifically and more just "you're in the POE and I'm sheeping my townreads' reads". You didn't do anything wrong, but the towniness bar is raised really high this game tbh

ted is probably making sarcastic jokes because he is depressed he rolled scum twice in a row

[VOTE: JPIC] aubergine

I'm sheeping my towncore.

JPIC staring at the thread being like "I put down a NAI post as my entrance and went off to chill. How have I come back to this"

nutella is...

...probably town.

I think if I was scum here I'd be freaking out because half the playerlist has just confirmed themselves town and I have no viable misexes. I expect to see desperation and attempts to undermine the towncore, not an immediate response of "yeah I agree with most of these reads".

12 players confirmed, 10 to go.

I'm going to pull a JJJ and try to solve this game by purely finding town and forcing out the scum through process of eliination. This isn't a strategy I think is great every game, but in this case we have like 5 or 6 inno children who revealed in the first 5 pages, so I think it makes the most sense here.

Alright, I've decided I'm not going to get misexed again. Wolves, I hope you have your finger on the trigger to gun me down, because you sure as hell aren't getting rid of me any way else. I've worked hard to clear up my IRL distractions so I can focus on this game, and my WIM is pretty damn high right now.

Let's start with some raw facts.

The following players are town: DrWilgy, Dyslexicon, Hally, Herm, MacDougall, Master Radishes, Oddmerta, Poison Chan, sprityo, SPF and tutuu. You might be asking yourself how I've managed to confirm 10 people as town in 6 pages. If so, you didn't read the game. If you're skeptical about my reads, remember that in nearly half a dozen games on the Syndicate, I've only towncored 1 person wrong, ever. When I get killed N1 for my reads, remember this post and trust everyone I said to trust.

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