The Syndicate

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:25 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:24 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:21 pm Mac knows me to be an absolutist person, a principled player, and who plays very rigidly by a strict set of rules and policies. It beggars belief that he would find it hard to conceive of me thinking hypocrisy is wolfy just because he personally finds it to be townie. He isn't trying to authentically evaluate whether or not I believe in my scumread on him; he's just interested in discrediting my push and making me look bad or wrong.

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine
Actually nah.

[VOTE: Neon] aubergine

I'll give him a day pass to produce a pelt.
lol called it

Are you implying Neon is LHF scummy town? What makes you think she is town?

Are you just trying to tilt me by saying weird and incorrect things to try to fish an AI reaction out of me?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:24 pm I wouldn't read Alison that way cuz Alison has been chopping town as town in every game I've seen her play of late. She's become a robot that just kills lhf scummy town.

The last three games we have played together where I was town:

- Kid's Birthday Party: Two wolves in the game. I have a POE of two that includes one of the wolves on day 1. Then at SOD2 I come in and hard push a winning ordered POE that includes the last mafia as the 2nd person to be exed.
- Spiritfarer: I murdered the entire wolf team and constantly screamed at the town to just shut up and vote Thinking when they were trying to kill SPF.
- Two Kill Mountainous: Special game where everyone gets two votes on day 1 and I ended day 1 with my votes on both mafia. You called it my best town game ever in DVC.

What is wrong with you?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:21 pm Mac knows me to be an absolutist person, a principled player, and who plays very rigidly by a strict set of rules and policies. It beggars belief that he would find it hard to conceive of me thinking hypocrisy is wolfy just because he personally finds it to be townie. He isn't trying to authentically evaluate whether or not I believe in my scumread on him; he's just interested in discrediting my push and making me look bad or wrong.

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

Actually nah.

[VOTE: Neon] aubergine

I'll give him a day pass to produce a pelt.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:30 pm i've decided that i'm going to read alison solely by her results in this game and that any other method is probably flawed

What a coincidence, that's how I'm going to read you.

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:26 pm I kinda feel like I'm a lot prone to misreading lucy here because it feels like she plays a lot more serious on this site than she does on MU. I kinda had the same vibe from her in the Halvosen Ridge game that led me to wrongly wolfread her on an MU game.

The last game I played with her on this site, she gave one read in two day phases, refused to elaborate or say anything else when repeatedly pressured, and was policy executed D2.

Mac knows me to be an absolutist person, a principled player, and who plays very rigidly by a strict set of rules and policies. It beggars belief that he would find it hard to conceive of me thinking hypocrisy is wolfy just because he personally finds it to be townie. He isn't trying to authentically evaluate whether or not I believe in my scumread on him; he's just interested in discrediting my push and making me look bad or wrong.

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:08 pm show me where you've said as much repeatedly

this whole thing is so bogus coming from you I'm just gonna never reeval so enjoy the fruits of your labour alison

viewtopic.php?p=762336#p762336

I have said so in various DVCs when talking about how to read players as well but I've left them so I can't find the posts. Here is an unambiguous statement from me 1 year ago flat stating that I find hypocrisy to be scummy as a rule. Unless you're going to argue that my mafia philosophy has radically shifted in the intervening time (which we both know it hasn't)?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:05 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:27 pm Creature, falcon, and Seanzie are all town.
why is falcon town

I dunno how to say this without sounding like I'm putting down falcon's scum game. But if he is mafia I don't think he has the balls to poke me, Mac and Boq as some of his first few pushes. (He also poked Aro, but that is an easier push to make.)

The way he has gone about poking us has been town indicative for him too. He has stabbed at a wide variety of players and shown a quickness to move on from one push to another (eg. the naked vote piling on Boq immediately into voting Mac). I have described the difference between falcon's town vs wolf pushes as a shotgun looking to see what sticks and a sniper rifle trying to take opportunities to gun down weak townies. I think his play so far this game has fit the "shotgun" archetype.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:02 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:59 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:44 pm ok jack what do you think of mac

i'm kinda just assuming he's in half retired shit post mode so i'm not taking his nonsense too serious as alignment indicative
Mac washed
haha yeah but I've somehow tilted Alison so that's cool

You haven't tilted me.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:00 pm hypocrisy is nai and you know it so fixating on this is very scummy for someone who purports to only do gto and rational things

No, I don't know it. I think hypocrisy is scummy and have said as much repeatedly. Catching people on inconsistencies in their thought process is part of my bread and butter methodology, and you know that.

Answer the rest of my post.

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:58 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:55 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:54 pm how well do u think you know my town game by now @Alison
I wouldn't call myself a lucy godreader or anything (especially since I haven't seen your scum game) but I think I have a decent grasp on how you think and where your priorities lie as town.
yeah this seems accurate, are you a godreader of anyone in this playerlist

I think I have >>rand reads on falcon and Seanzie. It is possible for them to fool me, but I have had confident and largely correct reads on them historically.

@MacDougall

I am actually very interested to hear why you are skeptical of my falcon townread especially. I think that I have a very good read on him when I am town and would likely be obligated to TMI him when I am mafia, especially with Two-Kill being so fresh in everyone's memory. You are usually the first to jump on this kind of reasoning with me especially and it is very odd that you have called him not >rand town as a result. What is your read on Falcon? Why did you go "don't bother voting me, you'll die" early on?

I have a lot more townreads than scumreads so I'm probably going to take a POE approach to this game and just try to solidify the people I am clearing.

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:54 pm how well do u think you know my town game by now @Alison

I wouldn't call myself a lucy godreader or anything (especially since I haven't seen your scum game) but I think I have a decent grasp on how you think and where your priorities lie as town.

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:40 pm I confess I am getting a bit concerned about staypositivefriend, especially in the world both Lilypetal and Seanzie are town.

I was a wolf in the spec chat invitational but my post there about how to read SPF D1 was genuine and I'd endorse it this game.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:40 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:37 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:37 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:36 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:41 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:02 pm Alison is a wolf in this game I think.

I think Lilypetal is also a wolf.

I think the third is probably like ... Seanzie?
Why is Alison a wolf?
it doesn't matter nobody is going to chop her on fay 1 for reasons I give
true
but you should give your reasons anyway in case you get ml'd or nk'd
the way she is making matter of fact reads such as "these three players are town" with no reasoning offered, on slots it is sub optimal for Alison to be shielding because they are not >rand town slots anyway indicates Alison is not legitimately trying to sort alignments and is more interested in making people feel a way

This is an incredibly hypocritical post to make after you went "meh" and dipped when I tried to talk to you about the game... and it is doubly hypocritical to accuse me of throwing out matter of fact reads with no reasoning when you did the same yourself in your original post accusing me/lily/Seanzie of being wolves.

Have you never seen me give matter of fact reads and only explain reasoning when asked? Why are my townreads not >rand town?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:09 pm Based on the split vote count and nobody voting for me in spite of me 1 posting, I’d guess there are some opinionated people and not a clear towncore/poe.

I’ve been playing video games and working all day. Ping me with cases. Kthx

I suspect Neon, and I've briefly outlined my suspicion here. There's not a lot of focused solving, and part of that is that the thread feels low energy.

Boquise wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:06 pm @Alison
it is basically on how he is constructing and presenting his thoughts tbh

Thanks. I don't remember how complex his thoughts were in Cats vs Dogs, where he was mafia. I got snowed by him after underestimating his scum range that game so I am slightly hesitant to hand out easy townreads in this one, especially since we seem to differ pretty strongly on the Neon read. What did you think of his accusation that I was being overly harsh to Neon and not giving her the benefit of the doubt?

Boquise wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:55 pm town:
lucy
aro
seanzie
falcon

goodnight tbh

I agree with you on three of these. Why Aro?

Oh I missed SPF already explained her Seanzie read. I don't think much of it since he had more content after.

Maybe not Creature. He's been okay so far though. Falcon and Seanzie are confident towns for me.

Creature, falcon, and Seanzie are all town.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:40 am okay i think i'm actually done posting for the night. my current "one wolf maximum" pool is arogame, mac, and lucy. i think that seanzie is mafia. i'm still figuring it out beyond there

Can you elaborate on your Seanzie read?

arogame123 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:17 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:55 pm Are you literally just townreading them for responding to people's posts? Is Neon a super polarized player or something?

Also I think wolves are more likely to give excuses for bad posting in advance (which "I'm memeing this game" and "I'm playing 4 games at once" both are), because they know on some level that they're wolf and therefore their posting won't be as pure as town.
I don't know Neon's play lol.

I was giving them a slight tr for vibing with the thread and because their responses and posts felt natural and not like someone that was trying to "fit in."

And it's not a strong read as I have stated but one slot that I felt was slightly townie for the reasons I stated.

And it's weird to me Alison cause rn it feels like you are playing devil's advocate and not really giving them the benefit of the doubt. Like sure wolves could play out the "meme" but the way they carried it out felt fine and I don't think being memey = always mafia yk.

It also does depend on the playstyle of the player and depending how they play if there is a huge difference between the style of posting then I'd agree. So I'll keep it in mind when solving Neo's slot, but independent of that, I thought their initial posting was ok and slightly townie.

@Neon what would you describe your playstyle as and do you have any games as town and mafia that I could look at?

I am not giving them the benefit of the doubt because they have done nothing townie and I actively scumread their play. You think their responses "look natural", I don't. Not seeing any "naturalness" in their posts doesn't mean I am being uncharitable to them. It just means I don't see naturalness in their posts.

I don't think being memey is always mafia, I think being memey in a very self-aware way and then openly declaring your intent to play in an anti-town way (rushing to 150 by spamming) is >rand mafia.

Are you literally just townreading them for responding to people's posts? Is Neon a super polarized player or something?

Also I think wolves are more likely to give excuses for bad posting in advance (which "I'm memeing this game" and "I'm playing 4 games at once" both are), because they know on some level that they're wolf and therefore their posting won't be as pure as town.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:39 pmi refuse

Why

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:34 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:32 pm lucy is probably my top townread.
oh, did you not TR me last game bc my reads were good and you had to put me in the poe?

I townleaned you D1 last game I think, then switched to POEing you as suspicion grew. It was a purely opportunistic move designed to fish for a misexe.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:31 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:27 pm alison has caught me i must leave before i spew my team
How about you stay and explain why you made that reply to falcon? You know he is the kind of player that will throw out votes on whoever he finds wolfy especially early, and thinks very little about the broader strategic impact they have on his thread position. Nor is he the kind of player to be cowed by "you'll get voted out if you try this, oooo". So what were you hoping to achieve by saying that to falcon?

@MacDougall

arogame123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:25 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:17 pm
arogame123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:39 pm Hmmm, it's funny that you say that SPF, because I was about to my post an observation/read I had, and I kind of want your input on this and thoughts.

I was actually going to slight townread Neon rn because I felt like when they entered the thread, they felt more like they were "vibing" with the thread and going with the flow. Like asking you about the League question and responding to Lily's wolf gc comment. So I had some good vibes from Neon after their initial "multi-tabbing" posts and seemed ok.

So I was wondering if you agree with my sentiment that Neon seems to be more natural rather than "attempting to fit in"?
I don't feel like Neon's vibing at all. Their first two posts were pre-emptive excuses for bad posting, which is why I originally scumread them. Since then they have posted a bunch of irrelevant fluff and claimed to be trying to speedrun to postcap by spamming. This is a very shallow and low-effort way to engage with the thread, and it is very easy for a wolf struggling to fit in to make posts like that.
So I do agree with you Alison that their first posts were meh and I wasn't a fan, but it wasn't really alignment indicative. But I more so thought that they were vibing and going with the flow of the thread during the RVS. Sure it's not the strongest read with what they were saying but I just kind of vibed with their posts.

Idk Neon's meta or wolfrange or anything like that, so it was just how I was feeling at the time. If you have any meta or anything like that on Neon, that would help.

Also, on the topic on a "wolf struggling to fit in" what were your thoughts on Lily then? I know SPF discussed about it, so what are ur current thoughts on her rn?

I don't have meta on Neon. I haven't played with them before.

"Vibes" isn't an easy read to talk about or argue for/against. Could you try to pinpoint some posts of Neon that felt townie to you? Also what do you think about the fact that Neon's first two posts are excuses for bad posting in the future?

I don't have a strong read on lilypetal. I don't think their posts have been particularly AI, at least not to my eye. I didn't get the same sense of awkwardness that SPF did. I did see SPF's argument that their use of "sadly" was wolfy, but I think it's something they could easily post as town and I don't know if town lily would give "fuck off" there anyway.

lucy is probably my top townread.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:27 pm alison has caught me i must leave before i spew my team

How about you stay and explain why you made that reply to falcon? You know he is the kind of player that will throw out votes on whoever he finds wolfy especially early, and thinks very little about the broader strategic impact they have on his thread position. Nor is he the kind of player to be cowed by "you'll get voted out if you try this, oooo". So what were you hoping to achieve by saying that to falcon?

arogame123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:53 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:48 pm i think arogame is the most obvious villager in the game so far

does anyone disagree?
I mean, I agree

But considering the last game we played in SPF in C v D, I am just curious if you do have some skepticism or some cautiousness. Cause usually when I play with someone again after I wolfed against them, they usually are very cautious with their read on me.

This is kinda townie though, especially coming off a game where he solidly pocketed me and cruised to an easy victory. I think town would approach that with a degree of pride and "fear me, I snowed you all" sentiment, while scum would be more likely to just accept the read and say nothing.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:53 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:49 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:48 pm i think arogame is the most obvious villager in the game so far

does anyone disagree?
no, they were villagery as scum in a turbo, I'm holding them to higher standards
he was ridiculously cloying to me in the one wolfgame ive played with him (ie: he opened up the game by waxing poetic about how towny i was in a very generalized way) and in this game he was immediately accusatory and skeptical toward me (ie: "do you really think that lily believed that?"),so it would be a pretty impressive reversal of his scum meta in a world where he's mafia

youre valid though

Oh, this. I noticed he was less of a simp than he was in Cats vs Dogs but given how over the top he was in that game, I think he would make an effort to dial it down if he randed mafia again. So, I don't think that this is a particularly town indicative meta shift (especially because of how easy it is to make) and it definitely doesn't rise to the level of making him an obvious villager.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:48 pm i think arogame is the most obvious villager in the game so far

does anyone disagree?

I don't have a read on him. Could you elaborate more about why you feel he's an obvious villa?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:19 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:14 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:44 pm
Lilypetal wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:40 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:37 pm
Lilypetal wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:48 pm mafia team is nanook / lucy / seanzie thank me in post game
this post in particular felt a bit out of place and like the type of post i would make as a nervous wolf who felt pressured to join in on the meme posting but idk if i actually believe this
i've been making posts like this every game sadly
[VOTE: lilypetal] aubergine
What about this Lily post prompted you to vote her?
Is this your first post of the game?

No, my first post was me voting Neon. Why do you care?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:46 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:45 pm [VOTE: ] aubergine
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:44 pm 150 post cap, i can burn this fast and then i dont have to play mafia anymore
[VOTE: Mac] aubergine
this leads to you getting eliminated day 1 so as either alignment it's a bad play brah

Mac is wolf.

arogame123 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:39 pm Hmmm, it's funny that you say that SPF, because I was about to my post an observation/read I had, and I kind of want your input on this and thoughts.

I was actually going to slight townread Neon rn because I felt like when they entered the thread, they felt more like they were "vibing" with the thread and going with the flow. Like asking you about the League question and responding to Lily's wolf gc comment. So I had some good vibes from Neon after their initial "multi-tabbing" posts and seemed ok.

So I was wondering if you agree with my sentiment that Neon seems to be more natural rather than "attempting to fit in"?

I don't feel like Neon's vibing at all. Their first two posts were pre-emptive excuses for bad posting, which is why I originally scumread them. Since then they have posted a bunch of irrelevant fluff and claimed to be trying to speedrun to postcap by spamming. This is a very shallow and low-effort way to engage with the thread, and it is very easy for a wolf struggling to fit in to make posts like that.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:44 pm
Lilypetal wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:40 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 9:37 pm
Lilypetal wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:48 pm mafia team is nanook / lucy / seanzie thank me in post game
this post in particular felt a bit out of place and like the type of post i would make as a nervous wolf who felt pressured to join in on the meme posting but idk if i actually believe this
i've been making posts like this every game sadly
[VOTE: lilypetal] aubergine

What about this Lily post prompted you to vote her?

I have read up to the start of page 2.

[VOTE: Neon] aubergine

Serious vote.

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