The Syndicate

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:53 pm no, i'm going to treat him as a wolf because his iso in that other game is a lot villagerier than this game and it's not just about whether he posts or not?

why would you flipping green mean you were right on gavial? you've already shown me you can't compare likes

I mean it sounds like you've already made up your mind that we're both wolfy and you're confbiasing the hell out of it then.

I caught you in COV because you had terrible associatives with MR. I did not note any particular "freezing" in your pushes or any lack of advancing your worldview. You kinda openwolfed in COV which is why you were caught by association with a red flip, and you pushing me for really bad reasons here is entirely compatible with that play.

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:49 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:47 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:46 pm i think it's w/v
Why can't it be V/V?
because neither of you are villagery. you least of all

Let's say I flip green right now and my arguments that Gavial has been essentially NAI this game are proven to be made in good faith. Are you going to treat him as outed wolf because we're "W/V"?

What on earth does freezing on every single push you made or advance jack shit from your worldview even mean

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:46 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:44 pm What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?
This whole damn game

You saw me freeze on every single push I ever made in CoV
You saw me do jack shit to advance jack shit from my worldview in CoV
You saw me shamelessly TMI every controversial name in CoV

How tf

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm scumreading you because you're trying to push a very wrong narrative about me.

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:46 pm i think it's w/v

Why can't it be V/V?

What exactly have you done that's out of your wolfrange c4?

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:39 pm
Amy wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:37 pm a bit weirded out that my devil's avocado seems to have gone completely ignored

@dyachei do you have any opinion on the other gavial game, or the meta points i brought up against him?
yeah, he seemed a lot more comfortable there, kind of shot the shit with people and joked around. Here, he's stayed mostly quiet and angry at being a wagon

i feel like every post this game is ok why is x voting him

I think he could easily be a wolf

but alison weirds me out more - like how she thought these games were comparible or her general actions in thread. her catch up also seemed a bit out of order

Catchup out of order is NAI for me. I often bounce between recent posts and old posts when I'm in the process of catching up. I've also clarified that I don't think level of care about the game is AI for Gavial.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:39 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:38 pm c4's treatment of me is so disingenuous that I'm just going to vote him.

[VOTE: c4] aubergine
You really think I can do something like this as a wolf?

Yes obviously.

Mostly I just feel like your attacks on me have been opportunistic timing-wise and not really reflective of how things went down.

c4's treatment of me is so disingenuous that I'm just going to vote him.

[VOTE: c4] aubergine

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:35 pm i viewed that post as you flexing your experience/knowledge of gavial's meta, and using that as a way to steer some of the pressure off of him. if you present yourself as The Expert on a specific player and you shoot down the idea that traditionally wolfy play is NAI for them, then you can reasonably influence people and make them feel more unsure of themselves. this is an approach that you've taken as a wolf before, i am sure?

I am not an expert on Seth. There. :P

But also other people have already claimed to be Gavial experts even stronger than me so if I was trying to pull that here I'd be contradicted.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 7:10 pm i think that sunbae is a villager

Nothing about sunbae's posts seriously appealed to me. What's this read based on?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:30 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:56 pm I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.
^^i actually do take issue with this post from alison, because i feel like she was trying to generalize all of the suspicion against gavial as being related to him being "anti-town", when it was very clear that the majority of suspicion toward him had nothing to do w/him being anti-town or pro-town. it felt like a post that was intended to steer the thread consensus in a specific direction, which isn't implausible for alison to do as a villager, but the generalization grinded my gears a bit

It was not clear to me. I was just putting out what I know about Seth's meta because I saw the word anti-town bounced around a couple of times. I don't think it's fair to me to characterize me as trying to say that all the suspicion against Gavial was because he was anti-town.

Like what exactly is the idea here? I say "guys Gavial is always anti-town it's NAI for him", you guys look at your legitimate grievances with actual wolfy play by Seth and think "oh well Alison says anti-town play is NAI for Gavial so I guess I can't scumread him now"?

sunbae wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 5:55 pm I feel like I'm the only one that's wolfed with Marl when I see people clearing super light but I think the reality is my perception of Marl's ranges are just skewed from a game or two of experience without having the rest of the games others have with them

I have just finished a wolfgame with Marl and I still feel okay about clearing him.

I believe Gavial's level of giving-a-fuck about the game he is playing is NAI.

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:23 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:19 pm I'm not closed off to the possibility he's just a wolf.
Someone tell me why I hate this line so much

Is it
The tiptoeing?
The vacuousness?
The fact that this is only coming now from Ms. Akemi "Check The Easy Worlds First" Homura and with so little conviction in the sequence from start to finish?

Your guess is as good as mine.

You are really making some big reaches in order to shade this line. All I am saying is that I'm not ready to lock Gavial town yet and if there's a legit case on him my ears and mind are open.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:21 pm alison's a wolf lol

I'm not I promise.

Amy wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:12 pm aight, fuck it

ISOing gavial this game i think it's painfully clear he doesn't give a shit about actively engaging other people except regarding their reads on him - and specifically their scumreads. this on its own is already wolfy in a vacuum - and i realize that gavial is a bit more of an "antitown" player than most, but i don't think the previous sentence applies to his towngame at all. grain of salt because it's been a minute, but last time we towned together he was all over the place trying to correct people's reads and actively advancing his own worldview. it was basically the only thing he actually posted to do lol.

is the difference explainable via activity? i don't think so - i recalled a game on Mafia Colosseum where i made a similar read and went back to doublecheck it. i made this read after he had made four posts. i was correct.

i made my ultimatum yesterday because it already looked like he was trending in that direction but i wanted to give him time to do literally anything resembling his towngame. he didn't. dude's just a wolf

I'm going to reconsider Gavial with these points in mind. I'm not closed off to the possibility he's just a wolf.

Hally wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:06 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:55 pm I think Marluxion and Vulgard are both town. outed wolf's outrage over my take on nutella's wagon is I think genuine indication that he feels it was legit. I find Amy null but am willing to sheep thread consensus on her for today. nutella is lock town. That leaves the rest of the game in the POE. If I wanted to stretch I could give Hally a townread on tone as well.
i don’t think my tone has been villagery and if anything i’m coming across more flat than usual because i’m really tired today

plus tone is a bad way to read me in general because i have good tone as a wolf

so this read on me is a bit weird

I did say it was a reach.

But I was referring to the way you responded to Arete accusing you of claiming wolf as wolf. It felt like you were genuinely trying to get across to them and make sure you two are on the same page rather than lean hard on your meta to wipe away the accusation or push them for having sketchy reasons to suspect you.

Call it a gut read if you want.

Hally wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:09 pm can you link a game where he was a villager and was “indistinguishable” from his wolf game?

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic ... 276&t=2101

Vulgard wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:18 pm I lean V on Dizzy after some consideration. I think a wolf doesn't break the flow of the thread like this just to brag that they won't play the game. Re: their LOUD BOMBASTIC ENTRANCE where they DECLARE they will NOT play. Re: their LOUD BOMBASTIC ENTRANCE where they DECLARE they will NOT play. People call this type of thing wolf WIFOM but I've never actually seen someone like this flip W.

I don't actually know Dizzy's wolfrange, but I wouldn't expect this "maneuver" from any wolf. You can invite people to yeet you without breaking threadflow and magnetizing attention. Wolf!Dizzy wouldn't pop into the thread just to scream "yeet me" and shitpost. In fact, there's even a comparison to be made when you look at KZA's entrance. I brought this up earlier. KZA's entrance is the type of "shitpost wahaha I may or may not care about this game" posting I'd expect from a wolf. Rather than what Dizzy did.

Arete latching onto Dizzy and considering a yeet there, especially calling it "policy..." Rubs me the wrong way. Sure, if Dizzy's a wolf playing like this, losing to it would suck, but this shouldn't be v!Arete's first thought. This feels more like pointing a finger and calling attention. "Hey guys, there's this one dude who posted stuff about wanting to get killed. Maybe we should do it somewhere down the line, idk." It's a very subtle suggestion and I think it's very wolfy.

Since it's one wolfy thing in a string of passable posts by Arete, I'm still content not tunneling them to the death. But this isn't the way of thinking I expected from v!Rete.

I believe Dizzy's entrance is NAI but I liked their earnest defense of Gavial regardless of Gavial's alignment. White-knighting Gavial doesn't make a lot of sense; you'd be taking on a lot of heat for very little benefit and can even be accused of TMI. Defending a scumbuddy Gavial like this is just begging to be POE'd forever if he flips red which there is a high chance of.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:03 pm i'm not voting gavial for being anti-town. he can be anti-town all he wants. i'm voting gavial for being wolfy. i am willing to listen if people feel that he's still within his village meta or if they feel that he's rand, but i dont get why youre framing the votes on gavial as being about gavial being "anti-town" when they're actually about gavial being wolfy

Because I'm hearing people like dya say that he's anti-town, and I think Gavial is rand. So I put in my two cents about Gavial's meta.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:01 pm you cant push through a cheap misexe a couple hours into d1 i mean

(and esp probably in this playerlist lol)

I have done so many times.

Hally wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:59 pm i.e. perfectly fine things that don’t really go anywhere and are easy to say

I haven't played with Visor at all apart from Stardew Valley where he posted mostly in GIFs and was in a hydra anyway.

What are your thoughts on my argument that his mindset wrt the nutella wagon has TMI-ed himself as town?

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:58 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:56 pm I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.
im aware and am not voting him

im trrying to determine if he's a wolf because he's supposed to be relatively easy to read

My take on Gavial's meta is that when he's town half the time he's really obvious town and half the time he's indistinguishable from his wolf meta.

Some people have proposed that if his logic is too sound or if his reads aren't wacky and weird enough he's scum but I don't have a big enough sample size to affirm that (and I have used that very "tell" as a way to frame him when I was mafia and he was town).

I think when Gavial is falling into that segment of his meta where he's indistinguishable from his wolf meta he's actually not very easy to read, and he certainly is in that place right now. I think Gavial is like ~rand atp and the votes on him for being anti town are kinda lazy.

sunbae wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 2:04 pm Gonna back off the Alison villa lean with a few people telling me they have that slot as null.

can you elaborate what you mean by this?

I don't know how to put this gently so I am just going to ask if you are all aware that Gavial is Seththeking and that being anti-town is NAI for him.

Amy wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:53 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:51 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:56 am Alison's post wasn't super great - where she basically accused people of trying to get an easy mis-elim on nutella. Not necessarily because it's within the first 3 hours, but because it feels like TMI on nut. But lets say I'm wrong there...she still left the thread shortly after with no other insight. The alison i know usually has other thoughts on the game.
You're right, I usually have more thoughts on the game. I don't this game though. I opened up by saying I had no reads which is pretty unusual for me.
what about this game has been particularly difficult for you to parse?

i think we can both agree that you typically have very strong opinions on mafia and i'm just as surprised as you are at your lack of reads, if not moreso

No clue tbh.

If you put a gun to my head and asked for an explanation, I could theorize that a lot of the dynamic/solving this game has been based on meta and history between members of the thread that I don't have access to. More likely it's just an offgame. Those happen sometimes.

I think Marluxion and Vulgard are both town. outed wolf's outrage over my take on nutella's wagon is I think genuine indication that he feels it was legit. I find Amy null but am willing to sheep thread consensus on her for today. nutella is lock town. That leaves the rest of the game in the POE. If I wanted to stretch I could give Hally a townread on tone as well.

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:56 am Alison's post wasn't super great - where she basically accused people of trying to get an easy mis-elim on nutella. Not necessarily because it's within the first 3 hours, but because it feels like TMI on nut. But lets say I'm wrong there...she still left the thread shortly after with no other insight. The alison i know usually has other thoughts on the game.

You're right, I usually have more thoughts on the game. I don't this game though. I opened up by saying I had no reads which is pretty unusual for me.

But more seriously I think you're overestimating how bad the take was because from your POV the nutella push was clean and well-reasoned which probably makes this one of the few times I'll townread someone for TMI-ing themselves.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:26 am incomprehensible

beyond comprehension

inability to be comprehended

You're just saying that because you're one of the people being suspected

Tangrowth wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 12:46 am
Hally wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 12:44 am
Tangrowth wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 12:35 am What’s villagery about that Arete post, Hally?
i think the first paragraph re: you responding to arete and apologizing to them as though you had TMI that they’re a villager is a villagery thing for arete to think

it’s not unfakeable and i have no idea what their wolf range is, but it struck me as genuine
Thank you!

(More generally, to you or anyone) in the future thank you for answering any of my questions, I may not get around to expressing it due to the post cap.

As for the Alison thought, I don’t find it an unbelievable thing for Alison to genuinely think. She sometimes has some pretty strongly delivered takes that struck me as... notable (for lack of a better term) in a similar way.

is this a polite way of saying my reads are usually bad

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 12:42 am few things:

1) think nutellas knee jerk reaction (and it is a knee jerk imo - seems obv and the justification locks it in) to a tangrowth push is probably the villageriest thing she has going for her. spf is obv right on nutellas posts earlier (just wanted to note this for posterity). i understand the emotion reads but i feel they are kinda lame and assume that nutella cant get annoyed as a wolf.

2) gavial votes, my understanding of their play means they (votes) seem fine but obv see how it plays out

3) dont think the tangrowth push by arete is wolfy and i understand how someone could get there, i entertained a brief push there earlier but i believe it is more likely to be tangrowth getting into ww after being out for a bit regardless of alignmnet (though i dont fault anyone for not buyin that)

4) go rams

5) if that alison post is real and not just haha faking xd its bizarre. like just straight up you cannot believe that as a villager

I think this post is decently townie.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:35 pm alison u read the thread?

thoughts?

Doing catchup right now.

I'm feeling a little disconnected from the game since a lot of people aren't settling into the roles I'm familiar with and unusually for me I don't have any strong reads yet. So I'm going to start from anchors I'm more confident about and extrapolate from there.

I've seen a little questioning of my suspicion that scum is trying to bulldoze nutella early on. Part of this is based off what I said above - starting from points I'm confident on and branching out from there, and another part is that the speed and force of the wagon, along with the seeming camaraderie of those on it, drew my eye as unnatural. My suspicion of zack's "pillar of the town" statement is an extension of this. I also note that some people have said I misunderstood/misread who he was saying were the pillars of the town, and I'll look back on that and give you updated thoughts.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:49 pm okay

[VOTE: arete] aubergine

i don't think her tangy case is a real read

it's the kind of fake push a wolf would make imo

I was okay with the push; it seems like something that could come out of not knowing Tangy well enough.

Tangrowth wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:11 pm I could just be scared of Amy pulling the wool over my eyes like in the voxx 9er, hehe, but I'm not feeling it yet. Can someone talk to me about why she's town?

I think her naked voting me earlier was thinly villagery

bronana wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 10:56 pm their posts are indeed posts

Fair enough. I feel the same.

I'm probably gonna sleep soon since I'm exhausted. I'll check back in the morning. Good night.

outed wolf wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 10:53 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 10:47 pm I think nutella is town and the wolves are trying to shove through a cheap misexe on someone who is normally difficult to misexe.

This points towards mafia on her wagon, which is to say sunbae/bronana/outed wolf. Probably bronana for overexplaining his vote and trying to pocket the other two by saying they're the pillars of the town.
You think this a couple hours into D1?

Yeah

bronana wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 10:51 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 10:47 pm I think nutella is town and the wolves are trying to shove through a cheap misexe on someone who is normally difficult to misexe.

This points towards mafia on her wagon, which is to say sunbae/bronana/outed wolf. Probably bronana for overexplaining his vote and trying to pocket the other two by saying they're the pillars of the town.
I never said outed wolf is towny fwiw, he isnt anything rn. (and the inclusion of sunbae and spf wasn't particularly serious, they just made posts i agree with; amy is towny tho)

i find nutella's posts and blow up here baffling but if there are good meta reasons to townread her for it then shrug, probably not worth getting into.

Talk to me about the feelings you have towards Hally.

[VOTE: bronana] aubergine

I think nutella is town and the wolves are trying to shove through a cheap misexe on someone who is normally difficult to misexe.

This points towards mafia on her wagon, which is to say sunbae/bronana/outed wolf. Probably bronana for overexplaining his vote and trying to pocket the other two by saying they're the pillars of the town.

Hally wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 9:29 pm nutella is a villager

yep

I legitimately have no reads whatsoever.

Not even a wink of a read. Not even a reaction test.

Everyone is hard null.

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