The Syndicate

Transcend wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:29 am ur tunneled

but it's fine we're gonna get u out

Tell me what about that post was not performative and useless.

It makes a big show of emphasizing how bad your flip will be for town. It vaguely alludes to scum being on your wagon, but actively refuses to specify who.

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:54 am

Transcend wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:51 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:50 am

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:33 pm top 5 --> [ilario, Lime Coke, Wiml, Esooa, Alison]
bottom 5 --> [Ender, Mac, TSP, Nanook, Transcend]

if that wasn't obv

Do you think it’s a coincidence that for the most part you townread people you’ve played with more

this is probably town

reasonable post

Why? I don't think TSP's post was townie at all.

Transcend wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:27 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:25 am Transcend what do you think makes you town this game? Why should I town read you

cause i'm actually trying to get out of this mess instead of antispewing the moment i get heat and setting up partners for success

Not convinced you're not doing the latter.

Also not convinced that you'd just roll over and die as mafia.

Transcend wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:24 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:23 am my main concern is when I've towned again wolf Matt I legitimately considered him outed within a few hours

this game he's wolfy but I don't feel the same

if transcend flips town we have basically nothing as so many people are following consensus

and i'm doing my damndest to make sure my flip doesn't happen cause y'all are gonna be hurting from it

there's no way to tell who were wolves being opportunistic and who was town that just badly misread me

This is performative and useless.

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:58 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:54 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:33 pm this games not gonna go anywhere if we clear people for typical day 1 clears

as the bar of towniness is raised as a game goes on it should be raised day 1 now

What do you mean?

day 1 I'm on a random MU I'm like "this person is making reads that sound fine, I'm probably not voting them"

day 5 I'm making way more complicated reads

I'm saying we ought to have higher standards

I have higher standards for better players in general. If Mac was a random MU player I would have cleared him by now. But he is not. My Day 1 standards for good players aren't the same as Day 5 standards for regular players, but I'm also under less pressure to have perfect townreads on Day 1 since I can adjust my reads as the game goes on based on information obtained. That is why I am comfortable handing out day passes to people from time to time. Another thing is that one of my biggest standards for holding people accountable is their vote record and that doesn't exist without any flips on Day 1.

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:33 pm this games not gonna go anywhere if we clear people for typical day 1 clears

as the bar of towniness is raised as a game goes on it should be raised day 1 now

What do you mean?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:26 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:12 pm does anyone here scum read Alexa?

This post is out of Lime Coke's wolf range.

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:19 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:17 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:12 pm does anyone here scum read Alexa?

I don't.

Are you playing mafia at a bar?

yes

Good. Alcohol is bad. Mafia is good. Less bar, more mafia.

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:12 pm does anyone here scum read Alexa?

I don't.

Are you playing mafia at a bar?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:07 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:00 pm How has Mac played with me for so long and not know that I despise TWTBW arguments?

who cares

I was just curious. Not everything is hostile.

How has Mac played with me for so long and not know that I despise TWTBW arguments?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:57 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:55 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:54 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:53 pm @MacDougall Your read on Ender is?

at present i have him about on par with wiml as wolf 2

Lmao.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:27 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:10 pm lime
flea
ender
creature

top scum

Lmao

Good argument.

Now you do.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:55 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:55 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:53 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:52 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:51 pm I am voting transcend and will continue to until this day ends. If you think I bus my only other partner in 9v2 mountainous then good for you.

Alright I'll give you some space if Transcend flips red.

your scumread on me is largely predicated on me being partners with him so I would expect significant space if he flips green also

Nah I think your posts are independently scummy.

some of them are very scummy yes

when do I post scummy as wolf?

TWTBW arguments don't work on me. You know this.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:54 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:53 pm @MacDougall Your read on Ender is?

at present i have him about on par with wiml as wolf 2

I was just thinking that if Ender is wolves with Transcend he jumped on me making a read of Mac/Transcend partners to try to push the Mac side of the equation, and had him marked down as a Transcend partner candidate along with Nanook.

So you get points for the mindmeld.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:53 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:52 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:51 pm I am voting transcend and will continue to until this day ends. If you think I bus my only other partner in 9v2 mountainous then good for you.

Alright I'll give you some space if Transcend flips red.

your scumread on me is largely predicated on me being partners with him so I would expect significant space if he flips green also

Nah I think your posts are independently scummy.

@MacDougall Your read on Ender is?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:51 pm I am voting transcend and will continue to until this day ends. If you think I bus my only other partner in 9v2 mountainous then good for you.

Alright I'll give you some space if Transcend flips red.

Transcend
5
33%
Voters: Lime Coke, ilario, MacDougall, alexa, Alison

LC, ilario, alexa are 3 of my top town. I know I'm town.

Mac is a sketchy vote on there but frankly if he's scum I think he's most likely partnered with Transcend anyway, and if he's town and we both think Transcend is obvious mafia then Transcend is probably just mafia.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:48 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:52 pm From a scumminess perspective I think Mac and Transcend feel like they are trying to outdo each other with regards to how scummy they can be. I would be fine with either if we nixed the day pass angle.

ok i don't care if you're wrong on me cuz I agree with your transcend read so as long as you keep the energy up there im happy

Sounds good. Vote Transcend with me.

I'm pretty sure you saw me churn out posts that were very similar in terms of intricacy/style in Guillo's Roles.

It's not that intricate and it's not hard to fake as mafia. Just spew words on the page, vaguely logical, and there you go.

Transcend + Nanook is a fine solve. I'm on Transcend + Mac myself. TSP is a question mark. I think he's slightly in town meta but I struggle to read him because of his cryptic style of play and general inactivity.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:12 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:55 am if wiml is town then esooa/Alison/ilario/transcend contain wolves with ilario/esooa or ilario/Alison or transcend/Alison being the team

if Alison is town its wiml/transcend with esooa as swing

if transcend is town it's just wiml/ilario

if ilario is town wiml is always a wolf

if esooa is town it's wiml/transcend with Alison as swing

I'm talking this type of post, is there a world where Mac makes this post as mafia?

Yes, he obviously can. This kind of post is extremely easy to make as mafia, I don't know why you felt it was unfakeable.

Hi. What is your solve?

Oh, so when I take a nap the thread inflates by 20 pages. But when I'm caught up nobody wants to post. I see.

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:27 pm when did LC become strong town for you? i feel like i missed something between your earlier stance on him to that read?

He hasn't outed yet and other people who know him think he's town. Same with ilario.

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:26 pmwhy me?

I have largely agreed with the direction of your pushes and you went out of your way to make a twisty read to lock me town.

Strong town: alexa, Esooa, ilario, Lime Coke
Weak town: Wiml
Nulll: TSP
Upper POE: Nanook, EnderWiggin
Lower POE: MacDougall, Transcend

That's where I'm at.

[VOTE: Transcend] aubergine

Syndicate and MU should standardize vote tag formatting so I don't keep mixing them up.

I am caught up. Transcend has spent page after page nakedly AtEing when he came under pressure.

[v]Transcend[/v]

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:40 pm I crumble in stacked tables so I totally expected getting fucked on d1.

This the sad reality of being me.

Scummy post.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:36 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:48 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:45 pm

Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:45 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:43 pm I’m not finding one I don’t care that much

Finding one is probably in your town meta, please.

No it’s not

Please could you just like very briefly explain it?

I just want to know how likely I am to be misckearing her from this tbh.

Messing up wolf numbers, some vague mech mistakes, I think forgetting the identity of a partner once but I’m not too sure on that one

I think my favorite one was when two people died in the night with similar names, and one was my partner and one was a townie, and I pretended to misread the flips and think that my partner was the one that flipped V.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:07 pm Yes she absolutely would, and I'm reasonably sure she has

What happened to three quarters clear?

Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:19 pm Honestly I think both wolves are probably just in Transcend/blade/Nook/Mac.

I shall overlook your bad entrance in lieu of Esooa testifying you always have bad entrances and the fact that you have the exact same POE as me.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:06 pm Thats a good derp clear it makes her three quarters clear

Suspicious Nanook post.

I believe he has been fairly adamant about not clearing me for stupid shit multiple times in the past.

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:07 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:07 pm TWTBW is not a good read. It annoys me every time someone makes a read off it. If there were 3 things I could force the mafia community at large to believe about mafia it would be:

1) CFDs are anti-town
2) TWTBW isn't a thing
3) DADV isn't a thing

i said too wolfy to not be a wolf not TWTBAW

Oh sorry.

You said a phrase that was too similar to my pet peeve so I went off on a hair trigger.

TWTBW is not a good read. It annoys me every time someone makes a read off it. If there were 3 things I could force the mafia community at large to believe about mafia it would be:

1) CFDs are anti-town
2) TWTBW isn't a thing
3) DADV isn't a thing

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:01 pm don't take my word as lie if transcend flips red and im night killed though please just my gut take of it

Okay I'll note your read.

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:57 pm

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:39 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:38 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:37 am I thought Alexa suspected you earlier for your treatment of me.

@alexa What is your Transcend read?

Why are you talking to alexa, you already solved the game. Transcend and I are wolves.

do we just lolcat now since we got busted so early lol

posts around here

Think he's just having fun. I don't read anything AI off it.

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:32 am what do you think that says for this game?

That he is a wolf.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:31 am If I was a wolf in this game I would probably distance rather fiercely very early and then coach my teammate to make the sort of posts I can be excused for townreading wrongly so I can get off the read. I expect similar from the wolves here maybe without the nuance of coaching.

If I was a wolf in this game I would probably handwrite the most obscenely villagery possible posts and tell my partner to change the words a little to fit their posting style and send them. Then I would lock them town and instruct them to scumcase a villager and then sheep them on it and say the wagon is pure.

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:24 am considering "town siding" wolves is reasonably useless with a 9-2 split imo

Correct.

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:16 am

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:15 am

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:13 am

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:11 am

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:10 am Doggogut says wiml is town

Reason: reasons

I don't like the dynamic that we have to go against each other the first two days.

who do you wolfread

Not ilario
Not mac
Not alison
Not Tony
Probs not u or esooa
Ender has been weird but towny weird?

Poe is probably the rest

how come you townread ilario so confidently
i feel like he's obvtown now but he wasn't immediately. and i know v!you would naturally have some concerns regarding his wolf range? actually this reminds me i have some meta i need to investigate for you

Vibez lol

Turbo open wolfing.

From a scumminess perspective I think Mac and Transcend feel like they are trying to outdo each other with regards to how scummy they can be. I would be fine with either if we nixed the day pass angle.

Esooa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:50 pm in this game I think that's of vastly less importance which is why I'm fine with voting Mac

Sure, that's a fine argument.

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:13 am

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:11 am

Transcend wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:10 am Doggogut says wiml is town

Reason: reasons

I don't like the dynamic that we have to go against each other the first two days.

who do you wolfread

Not ilario
Not mac
Not alison
Not Tony
Probs not u or esooa
Ender has been weird but towny weird?

Poe is probably the rest

Takes Mac out of the POE for no reason.

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:47 pm i still think (matt specifically) would be too much of a pussy to openly mock alison's solve as wolf with mac

Where has he done this?

Ender is kind of correct that the day pass reasoning is less applicable when the table is stacked. Since you aren't taking the risk of misexing the one person who could roll over the wolves when everyone at the table could do that.

alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:44 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:39 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:37 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:19 pm Mac is honestly playing incredibly scummy. His reads are pure nonsense and he's just producing as many of them as possible until people get off his back. He is not solving the game or approaching it from a townie point of view and he's not fishing for hard-to-replicate tells the way he does as town. It's actually ridiculous.

Are we allowed to vote him yet?

I have argued before that it is best to give certain players a day pass because it is simply too disastrous for the game if they are town. You can keep them in your POE and hunt for your partners while giving them the chance to clear themselves by producing pelts (and of course, if they are wolves and produce pelts, you should encourage them to out all their teammates for you). I would say Mac is one of those players.

maybe it's my own ego but i have always been kind of "mrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" on this philosophy
mostly because i trust myself to solve the game more than i trust players who are useful if not mischopped

there's been times i've mischopped a player terribly d1 but we still won as town and got a lot of useful info from it

there's never been a time i've been like "oh no if we didn't ML X day one we would've won"

i've only been playing FM for a year though

I spoke quite a bit about it to some players in the PSY postgame chat (Zack, Visor, a few others). It is an incredibly unfun way of playing from a social point of view. I do think it is optimal for winrate purposes. I trust strong players to help shape my solving which is why I have backed off ilario because I think you are town and you have stated you have a good read on him.