The Syndicate

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:35 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:34 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:29 am @Alison do you have a read on me?
Nope.
I'm pretty prickly though.

Where?

Remember when I was like "Creature has spent all these posts being useless, let's vote him out", and everyone was like "noooo you can't Creature is useless every game!"

Now Ender is useless. And he is a solving machine when he is townie. Do the math.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:29 am @Alison do you have a read on me?

Nope.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:25 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:23 am
Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:54 am paopan was very towny then alexa made up some bs and half the game spewed paopan town in response
This is like that game where we lost as mafia together, and Alexa is Seanzie and Paopan is Fext.
And you are... you? and Mac is... Mac?

For that to be true we'd have to be pushing Paopan, which we aren't.

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:18 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:16 am
Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:15 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:13 am Do you have TMI that the captain drafted players Mac?
no I didn't think drafting roles was a thing until someone pointed it out
Pretty sure that was pointed out. A lot.
that sure would have helped those people who read those posts ay

How did you read the stuff about drafting players without also reading the stuff about drafting roles? A lot of the debate early on was on whether or not the captain drafted players or roles.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:07 am Is Ender really just lolwoofing here

I think so.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:06 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:05 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:51 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:59 pm Mac's entrance is unimpressive. He remains firmly in my suspect pool.

@LinearPoint What is your opinion on my Creature case? You've been very absorbed with the alexa/nutella stuff. I'd like your view on other parts of the game.
OK, lets start from the top and break this down then.

Spoiler: show
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:37 pm Here is my case on Creature.

All of Creature's posts so far can be divided into one of three categories: useless fluff, attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons, and "flame fanning".

Category 1: Useless Fluff
Spoiler: show

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:22 pm Why does the game always start when I'm the most low energy?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:32 pm Wow this got intense so quick

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:33 pm Is this game by any chance bastard? I didn't check before joining

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:11 pmWho is Neeko?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:12 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:11 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:49 pm Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games
I think you are.
I'm not mafia and this makes your push on me even more annoying
These posts go beyond the usual RVS horsing around (although we are well out of RVS now). These are posts that show a clear lack of interest in the progression of the game. His questions are flat, shallow, and in many cases could have been easily answered by glancing at the OP. He is more interested in looking like he is around and engaging with the game than actually being around and engaging with the game. He had a ripe opportunity to engage with me about my push on him, and he responded by going "I'm not mafia, I'm annoyed now, go away". I don't get the sense that he cares whether or not I am town misreading him or scum trying to get him killed, and this is especially concerning because in my last scum game I tried to get him killed early on.
First thought is that fluff posts in RVS are pretty much always NAI. There is a pretty common thread in the posts that suggests a person who just doesn't want to play meaning they got a role they disliked. This I don't really see as Mafia and is more likely a 3rd Party who doesn't need to worry about screwing over their team or a player who is Town and just got a bad role. You have a point about the backoff "i'm not Mafia" line, but that alone I wouldn't consider enough to warrant saying Creature is Mafia especially when I think the lack of interest in the game would be unlikely to come from Mafia.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:37 pm Category 2: Attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons

Spoiler: show
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:51 pm I want the guilty on nutella to be legit

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:34 pm Is soup kill a thing?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:49 pm Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:06 pm Wait I think the existence of a mafia captain should almost clear me from ever being picked as mafia this game

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:07 pm Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:15 pm If I was mafia captain I would choose players tbh even if it is not mechanically optimal. I would much rather have an enjoyable team to play with.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:15 pm I know I'd never be picked by the mafia captain if they chose players over roles
Creature makes an excessive number of posts attempting to insinuate that he is town, or in some way get people to "angleshoot" him as being town due to his lack of knowledge about the game mechanics or the inner workings of the mafia ("is there a soup kill?"). But a town Creature who genuinely wanted to know would just check the OP; asking in thread serves no purpose except to try to get people to falsely read him as town. He is aware that he struggles to gain the trust of the town when he is mafia, and he is cheaply attempting to earn this towncred through derptells and "townslips".

Take note that he is trying to convince the game repeatedly that the mafia captain chose players rather than roles. If he is town, he has no reason to believe that the mafia captain chose players over roles. I, personally, have reason to believe that the mafia captain chose roles. I think nutella is much townier than her scum self would be, and as I have argued, a town nutella implies a town Alexa. I know I am town, and I do not think a mafia captain who picked players would pass over both me and Alexa. So this attempt to convince the town - with no evidence whatsoever - that the mafia captain picked players reeks of agenda-pushing to me.

Finally, I want to highlight this line: "Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first." Nobody has accused him of being 3P. It comes completely out of the blue, and reads almost as though he is self-aware of his own scumminess and is trying to hang a lampshade of it. I don't think it's a line that would flow naturally from a townie's mouth.
This makes sense. But a lot of people right now are pushing their own opinions on what the Captain chose. Neeko does believe some Mafia will be trying to push the opposite of their choice, but right now everyone is guilty of doing so. It's also hard to tell real derptells from fake derptells. To Neeko this reads more of a 3rd Party than Mafia overall. Neeko did point out when Creature made the post about being a 3rd Party that they seem like a 3rd Party with that post, but right now 3rd Party is just not a big concern imo. Creature also doesn't seem to be distancing from anyone or buddying with anyone so Mafia seems a bit unlikely.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:37 pm Category 3: Flame Fanning
Spoiler: show
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:33 pm lol if nutella is salty alexa caught her n0

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:07 pm lol if the alexa/nutella w/w theory is right

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:18 pm
112 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:17 pm early take is that Seanzie is probably wolfing imo
Thought I was the only one seeing it

LinearPoint has been accused of fanning the flames. I think Creature is even more guilty of this sin. In his ISO of 19 posts (at the time I wrote this case), Creature utters provocative lines, egging on the suspicions of townies towards each other, three separate times. They are quoted in the spoilers above. Note that he first eggs on the "Alexa has a red check on nutella" narrative, then switches to "Alexa and nutella are wolves together". These narratives are contradictory. Creature does not have an opinion of his own; he just encourages whatever happens to be the prevailing opinion or thread sentiment at the time. This is strongly opportunistic, and this opportunism is exemplified even further by his agreement with 112 that Seanzie is wolfing. How is Seanzie being wolfy? Why has he not brought up this scumread on Seanzie before, if he thought he was the only one seeing it? In fact, if he thinks Seanzie is a wolf and fooling everyone except him, why would he keep quiet about it until someone else brings it up, at which point he eagerly jumps on the bandwagon? Answer: because he is nakedly taking advantage of 112's suspicion to push Seanzie.

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.
OK, admittedly was a bit jaded being falsely accused fanning the flames for jumping to conclusions with Alexa v Nutella to just write off this part, so Neeko will give it a serious read.
A lot of this makes sense for Creature being scum, so Neeko can see where you are coming from. It's not really giving reads and more a lot of just agreeing with hot takes which are shots in the dark from townies trying to scum hunt.
Neeko'll also provide another look into Creature since she had to review his posts for this and might as well.

overall they continued a lot of what you (Alison) pointed out.
Spoiler: show
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:41 am Is Scotty a good wolf?
This one is another just questioning someone's credibility by probbing others to look into their meta.
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:42 am
alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:40 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:38 am
alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:36 am

i forgot i had Sloonei in my gut pool of maf

Mafia:
Sloonei
LinearPoint
Paopon
Guillotine

that is probably 0/4 or 1/4 based on my early game accuracy but #yolo
I think only Sloonei and Paopan can be wolves here aorn
why?

ftr i am least confident on guillo here but i think linear is probably a wolf
LinearPoint is at that limbo where I think their actions are more likely to come from town but lots of players are saying they're wolf and I'm afraid of being the wrong one here
This personally doesn't feel right. A lot of people have given varying reasons for scum reading Neeko, while Neeko disagrees that any of them are remotely grounded in reality, having no opinion seems a bit odd. Neeko doesn't really like in gneeral when people don't read her as it reads like someone trying to balance between if they want to go for the easy wagon or avoid it with the knowledge it'll not be a red flip.
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:21 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:17 am Is there a red on nutella too? I really did miss a lot.
alexa seems to have info on nutella's role that seems wolf-indicative for the latter but not conclusive.
This is basically just echoing Neeko's read on the Alexa V Nutella, but also not commiting to either side, probably after seeing the backlash Neeko got for the opinion that Alexa V Nutella was Mafia.
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:21 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:17 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:13 am Also I maintain being provocative is something I do as town to the feel over players' alignment based on their responses. Looks like unnecessary attention for me to do as wolf.
Mmm defense of “I do this as town” no bueno
It's just that the "fanning the flames" thing can just be town being provocative just like this case. I honestly felt the same about DrWilgy last game when they started asking me useless questions and bugging me into responding them which I thought was wolfy but in reality they were being provocative.
Lastly, this is just blatantly saying they were trying to fan the flames and get people to scum read others without doing so themselves.
Neeko will say she doesn't like Creature. You can read the spoiler for quotes and thoughts on quotes.
Create is probably either a 3rd party who doesn't have partners to spew, or is mafia actively avoiding forming reads on any player to avoid spewing.
I feel pocketed by this post.
You can't pocket someone whose scum reading you silly.
Besides at no point did Neeko say you were Town, though there is a townlean for the record.

"I feel pocketed by this post" just means "I townread this post, even though I scumread you earlier".

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:06 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:02 am
Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:43 am alexa
c4
Creature
ender
falcon
hk
ilario
paopan
sabie
seanzie
urist

there are 0 wolves here

sloonei, nutella, Alison contains min 1 probably 2 wolves

linearpoint is outed mafia
Mac is mafia.
what about sprit?

They share the same alignment.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:02 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:01 am
Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:49 am
EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:43 am
alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:57 am i'd probably call mac towny in worlds pre-my last hydra game with him but that + aalison's read on him. he gets to be null. maybe ill try to make an actual read on him in the morning when im less tired.
This kinda feels like a post you make while wearing a coat of not quite 101 dalmations.
this is the craziest mind meld I've ever seen. I was trying to make a post calling Alexa Cruela and Paopan a puppy earlier but I had no reception lol
Actually shit you're right, Pao can't be wolf if Alexa is.

God damn faking building worldviews is so hard.
Someone please shoot this.

Yeah I agree.

[VOTE: EnderWiggin] aubergine

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:01 am this is like some satirical meta comedy version of mafia right now

Okay Mr. Alison doesn't like it when I meme.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:27 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:25 am
nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:23 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:21 am I don’t see what people see in sloonei

I think he’s being intentionally dense or aloof for his own amusement I’d say it’s at worst nai and on average >rand town
Just that the last several times he Did Nothing he was mafia

It's not impossible for him to Do Nothing as town bc he's become lazy in his retirement but it's not a good start
Other than the game we played together where he 0 posted almost d1, is there any other game where he was like that as scum recently?
I guess my other examples are quite a while longer ago tbh and he may have more slanky town games that I haven't followed

But I did dunk on him as a lower-content wolf in last year's GOC and in grasslands off the top of my head

I didn't play a ton of games here in 2021 ngl

He was not low content in Grasslands.

Also you tried to CFD me over Sloonei at the last moment and only barely failed. The north remembers.

EnderWiggin has low impact.

@EnderWiggin why do you have low impact?

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:21 am I don’t see what people see in sloonei

I think he’s being intentionally dense or aloof for his own amusement I’d say it’s at worst nai and on average >rand town

I think it's NAI.

In other words I think Alexa is town. I've liked Paopan's responses, and the Ilya style claim is townie.

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:54 am paopan was very towny then alexa made up some bs and half the game spewed paopan town in response

This is like that game where we lost as mafia together, and Alexa is Seanzie and Paopan is Fext.

Paopan wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:36 am I'm the most powerful town role~ hihi

This is a certified Ilya moment.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:36 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:35 am Guess I'll votepark on Paopan for a while but for postgame cred I think they're just town
The more you talk the more confident Neeko is in thinking you're just a Jester.

1) I could be misremembering but I think Nanook is ideologically against jesters. Don't quote me on this, though.
2) If Creature is a jester he immediately afks the moment I drop my case on him and collects a free win.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:35 am Guess I'll votepark on Paopan for a while but for postgame cred I think they're just town

This is an anti-town post.

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:25 am if paopan is an alt im sorry

but i dont think they are and them saying "drafting people like me/scotty" just feels like TMI from a wolf chat discussing this type of thing. and im of the opinion mafia picked roles instead of drafts and therefore may discuss what happened if they drafted

Paopan isn't an alt, they're some random person that Gavial recruited from his homesite or whatever to play Akemi Homura Mafia.

I don't know if he's just heard of your rep though.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:24 am
alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:21 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:18 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:07 am Oh right, Happy might've been a good choice to pick as wolf too
id easily endgame in a lobby this chaotic
Same and idk if this is cocky to say but i think a lot of people would've drafted me and i'm not a wolf so i feel like they picked the role-option
Nah. This community of players would not let an opportunity to pick their teammates pass them up.

How many wolves? 8-9?

I would draft players if I was the captain, yeah.

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:21 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:18 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:07 am Oh right, Happy might've been a good choice to pick as wolf too
id easily endgame in a lobby this chaotic
Same and idk if this is cocky to say but i think a lot of people would've drafted me and i'm not a wolf so i feel like they picked the role-option

Same.

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:18 am
alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:17 am idk why people are drafting teams but mine would be

ilario
dyslexicon
Alison
c4
Guillo
Radishes
found wolf captain

I don't think Alexa is the wolf captain. I think if Alexa was the wolf captain she'd almost certainly draft players because that's the kind of person that she is. And if she drafts players, she almost certainly drafts Ilario. Therefore if Alexa is the wolf captain, then Alexa/Ilario are W/W. And I don't think Alexa/Ilario are W/W.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:16 am I would absolutely pick wilgy hes a sleeper god wolf

That's how I feel about Belzy.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:16 am
Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:14 am in my experience fully stacked mafia teams get stomped so I would be disinclined to do that
I can tell this is sprit because Mac would never say this after the GoC from two years ago.

I think it's Mac, he lost a couple of games on stacked wolf teams recently.

Do you have TMI that the captain drafted players Mac?

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:15 am so it seems like everyone would draft me...

except I didn't get drafted

which means sloonei is the wolf captain

Or the captain drafted roles.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:06 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:04 am Alexa Alison dizzy mac creature and a sixth, probably like NAA or Guillo or Urist
Would try to be a bit less obvious with my wolf choices but maybe would probably have picked alexa too. Would rather have her on my wolfteam even if she gets caught easily than have her on the town team.

If I was the captain I would pick Alexa Belzy dyachei Dizzy Sloonei Mac without too much hesitation or thought.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:57 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:36 am
Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:34 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:28 am Mac if you tunnel LP I will townread you.
this reminds me of your wolf game we just lost tbh

This is creature's first townie post but it's borderline

Isn't it just a meme from the last game he was in with us where we did indeed rand wolves against him?

112 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:54 am i'm usually able to interpret village nute really quickly btw and i'm not getting the interpretation here yet

The conviction in her tunnel on Creature has a ring of conviction about it that I believe she would struggle to fake as mafia.

You can disagree with the tunnel, but I think it's fairly clear she genuinely believes in it.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:51 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:59 pm Mac's entrance is unimpressive. He remains firmly in my suspect pool.

@LinearPoint What is your opinion on my Creature case? You've been very absorbed with the alexa/nutella stuff. I'd like your view on other parts of the game.
OK, lets start from the top and break this down then.

Spoiler: show
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:37 pm Here is my case on Creature.

All of Creature's posts so far can be divided into one of three categories: useless fluff, attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons, and "flame fanning".

Category 1: Useless Fluff
Spoiler: show

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:22 pm Why does the game always start when I'm the most low energy?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:32 pm Wow this got intense so quick

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:33 pm Is this game by any chance bastard? I didn't check before joining

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:11 pmWho is Neeko?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:12 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:11 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:49 pm Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games
I think you are.
I'm not mafia and this makes your push on me even more annoying
These posts go beyond the usual RVS horsing around (although we are well out of RVS now). These are posts that show a clear lack of interest in the progression of the game. His questions are flat, shallow, and in many cases could have been easily answered by glancing at the OP. He is more interested in looking like he is around and engaging with the game than actually being around and engaging with the game. He had a ripe opportunity to engage with me about my push on him, and he responded by going "I'm not mafia, I'm annoyed now, go away". I don't get the sense that he cares whether or not I am town misreading him or scum trying to get him killed, and this is especially concerning because in my last scum game I tried to get him killed early on.
First thought is that fluff posts in RVS are pretty much always NAI. There is a pretty common thread in the posts that suggests a person who just doesn't want to play meaning they got a role they disliked. This I don't really see as Mafia and is more likely a 3rd Party who doesn't need to worry about screwing over their team or a player who is Town and just got a bad role. You have a point about the backoff "i'm not Mafia" line, but that alone I wouldn't consider enough to warrant saying Creature is Mafia especially when I think the lack of interest in the game would be unlikely to come from Mafia.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:37 pm Category 2: Attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons

Spoiler: show
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:51 pm I want the guilty on nutella to be legit

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:34 pm Is soup kill a thing?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:49 pm Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:06 pm Wait I think the existence of a mafia captain should almost clear me from ever being picked as mafia this game

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:07 pm Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:15 pm If I was mafia captain I would choose players tbh even if it is not mechanically optimal. I would much rather have an enjoyable team to play with.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:15 pm I know I'd never be picked by the mafia captain if they chose players over roles
Creature makes an excessive number of posts attempting to insinuate that he is town, or in some way get people to "angleshoot" him as being town due to his lack of knowledge about the game mechanics or the inner workings of the mafia ("is there a soup kill?"). But a town Creature who genuinely wanted to know would just check the OP; asking in thread serves no purpose except to try to get people to falsely read him as town. He is aware that he struggles to gain the trust of the town when he is mafia, and he is cheaply attempting to earn this towncred through derptells and "townslips".

Take note that he is trying to convince the game repeatedly that the mafia captain chose players rather than roles. If he is town, he has no reason to believe that the mafia captain chose players over roles. I, personally, have reason to believe that the mafia captain chose roles. I think nutella is much townier than her scum self would be, and as I have argued, a town nutella implies a town Alexa. I know I am town, and I do not think a mafia captain who picked players would pass over both me and Alexa. So this attempt to convince the town - with no evidence whatsoever - that the mafia captain picked players reeks of agenda-pushing to me.

Finally, I want to highlight this line: "Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first." Nobody has accused him of being 3P. It comes completely out of the blue, and reads almost as though he is self-aware of his own scumminess and is trying to hang a lampshade of it. I don't think it's a line that would flow naturally from a townie's mouth.
This makes sense. But a lot of people right now are pushing their own opinions on what the Captain chose. Neeko does believe some Mafia will be trying to push the opposite of their choice, but right now everyone is guilty of doing so. It's also hard to tell real derptells from fake derptells. To Neeko this reads more of a 3rd Party than Mafia overall. Neeko did point out when Creature made the post about being a 3rd Party that they seem like a 3rd Party with that post, but right now 3rd Party is just not a big concern imo. Creature also doesn't seem to be distancing from anyone or buddying with anyone so Mafia seems a bit unlikely.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:37 pm Category 3: Flame Fanning
Spoiler: show
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:33 pm lol if nutella is salty alexa caught her n0

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:07 pm lol if the alexa/nutella w/w theory is right

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:18 pm
112 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:17 pm early take is that Seanzie is probably wolfing imo
Thought I was the only one seeing it

LinearPoint has been accused of fanning the flames. I think Creature is even more guilty of this sin. In his ISO of 19 posts (at the time I wrote this case), Creature utters provocative lines, egging on the suspicions of townies towards each other, three separate times. They are quoted in the spoilers above. Note that he first eggs on the "Alexa has a red check on nutella" narrative, then switches to "Alexa and nutella are wolves together". These narratives are contradictory. Creature does not have an opinion of his own; he just encourages whatever happens to be the prevailing opinion or thread sentiment at the time. This is strongly opportunistic, and this opportunism is exemplified even further by his agreement with 112 that Seanzie is wolfing. How is Seanzie being wolfy? Why has he not brought up this scumread on Seanzie before, if he thought he was the only one seeing it? In fact, if he thinks Seanzie is a wolf and fooling everyone except him, why would he keep quiet about it until someone else brings it up, at which point he eagerly jumps on the bandwagon? Answer: because he is nakedly taking advantage of 112's suspicion to push Seanzie.

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.
OK, admittedly was a bit jaded being falsely accused fanning the flames for jumping to conclusions with Alexa v Nutella to just write off this part, so Neeko will give it a serious read.
A lot of this makes sense for Creature being scum, so Neeko can see where you are coming from. It's not really giving reads and more a lot of just agreeing with hot takes which are shots in the dark from townies trying to scum hunt.
Neeko'll also provide another look into Creature since she had to review his posts for this and might as well.

overall they continued a lot of what you (Alison) pointed out.
Spoiler: show
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:41 am Is Scotty a good wolf?
This one is another just questioning someone's credibility by probbing others to look into their meta.
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:42 am
alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:40 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:38 am
alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:36 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:34 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:31 am Can we just kill someone like guillotine d1 pls
Why aren’t you voting him then?
i forgot i had Sloonei in my gut pool of maf

Mafia:
Sloonei
LinearPoint
Paopon
Guillotine

that is probably 0/4 or 1/4 based on my early game accuracy but #yolo
I think only Sloonei and Paopan can be wolves here aorn
why?

ftr i am least confident on guillo here but i think linear is probably a wolf
LinearPoint is at that limbo where I think their actions are more likely to come from town but lots of players are saying they're wolf and I'm afraid of being the wrong one here
This personally doesn't feel right. A lot of people have given varying reasons for scum reading Neeko, while Neeko disagrees that any of them are remotely grounded in reality, having no opinion seems a bit odd. Neeko doesn't really like in gneeral when people don't read her as it reads like someone trying to balance between if they want to go for the easy wagon or avoid it with the knowledge it'll not be a red flip.
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:21 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:17 am Is there a red on nutella too? I really did miss a lot.
alexa seems to have info on nutella's role that seems wolf-indicative for the latter but not conclusive.
This is basically just echoing Neeko's read on the Alexa V Nutella, but also not commiting to either side, probably after seeing the backlash Neeko got for the opinion that Alexa V Nutella was Mafia.
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:21 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:17 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:13 am Also I maintain being provocative is something I do as town to the feel over players' alignment based on their responses. Looks like unnecessary attention for me to do as wolf.
Mmm defense of “I do this as town” no bueno
It's just that the "fanning the flames" thing can just be town being provocative just like this case. I honestly felt the same about DrWilgy last game when they started asking me useless questions and bugging me into responding them which I thought was wolfy but in reality they were being provocative.
Lastly, this is just blatantly saying they were trying to fan the flames and get people to scum read others without doing so themselves.
Neeko will say she doesn't like Creature. You can read the spoiler for quotes and thoughts on quotes.
Create is probably either a 3rd party who doesn't have partners to spew, or is mafia actively avoiding forming reads on any player to avoid spewing.

I feel pocketed by this post.

Urist wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:47 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:45 am I'll probably trust Alison and Mac on LinearPoint. Let's hope they didn't rand wolves together again.
i think that one of them is mafia and the other is town. what you choose to do with that information is up to you.

I think so too

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:47 am
alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:42 am
alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:42 am hey please answer this - have you played with Paopan before?
this is for everyone

I need an answer

@112
@Alison
@Belzy
@BoKnows
@c4e5g3d5
@DrWilgy
@dyachei
@Dyslexicon
@EnderWiggin
@falcon45ca
@Guillotine
@hollowkatt
@ilario
@Justplayingitcool
@KZA
@LinearPoint
@Marmot
@Master Radishes
@NotAnAxehole
@nutella
@Phil and Gloria
@Porscha
@sabie12
@Seanzie
@sig
@Sloonei
@TonyStarkPrime
@Urist

THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND MAY 100% NAIL A SCUM, PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU'VE PLAYED WITH PAOPAN BEFORE

I hosted a game which Paopan was in. I don't think I've played with them before, unless I'm forgetting a game.

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:43 am alexa
c4
Creature
ender
falcon
hk
ilario
paopan
sabie
seanzie
urist

there are 0 wolves here

sloonei, nutella, Alison contains min 1 probably 2 wolves

linearpoint is outed mafia

Mac is mafia.

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:34 am @Alison what are your concerns on mac rn?

We tend to vibe early and our pushes and thoughts make sense to each other when we are both town. That's not happening this game. That isn't a guarantee that he is scum, it has happened before as T/T, but it is concerning at least.

Mac if you tunnel LP I will townread you.

Hi Sloonei.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:24 am 112/Mac/ilario w/w/w howbowdah

Think ilario has been ok, think 112 has been ok. They read more misguided than malicious to me.

I have severe concerns about Mac.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:23 am
alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:10 pm i liked guillotine's opening but the one thing that did ping me was him saying that he expected better of my play/i don't make those kinds of mistakes as it's just ???? objectively false and i thought he got better with my meta. so yeah maybe that + waza's read, i would drop him from my previous towncore rn.
You are right Alexa, my mistake, perhaps you are not the great player i thought you to be.

This post has weird vibes. I'm not sure what to make of them. It feels like something one wolf would say to another to distance because it's so out of place and such a hostile comment without any real heat behind it (+ it seems to be made in the context of Guillo being placated by Alexa's refutation of his case against her). But I townread both Guillo and Alexa so I don't think that's it.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:22 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:20 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:15 am What the hell? I'm not flame fanning on Seanzie, I think they have wolf equity and I took 112's post as an opportunity to express my read on them.
Why didn't you express that scumread before 112 came along? Why must someone else say Seanzie is scum first before you call him out? For that matter, what did Seanzie do that was scummy in the first place?
I like to express reads when I have someone to mindmeld with instead of just throwing them whenever I get them.

So if nobody ever expressed suspicion on Seanzie, how long were you going to sit there letting him go about doing wolfy things without saying anything?

And what were those wolfy things, anyway?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:19 am
Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:47 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:42 pm
112 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:47 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:44 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:39 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:37 pm At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.
This is extremely NAI for Creature
Are the other parts of my case NAI for him, too?
I think it's way too early to write such a monster of a post--if you have so much to write against him/his slot right now, it's probably coming from a place of wolfy over-eagerness to project town or otherwise control the game.
Lock 112 as town all the way until lylo

112 c4 creature

These are almost never wolves

Alexa

Would be very surprised if she’s a wolf but most likely is town like 90+ % of the time here. This approach she’s taking would only be tailored to fool me if she’s mafia but idt she would do that in a lobby this big
I didn't know you were a bluekang alt
This got me laughing hard enough to choke, ggwp

Scummy post.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:19 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:16 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:13 am Also I maintain being provocative is something I do as town to the feel over players' alignment based on their responses. Looks like unnecessary attention for me to do as wolf.
Except you can't furnish any receipts for actually getting info about people's alignment.
I don't need a solid thesis, I only need to hit the right players and any hint of where to go or not to go is helpful.

What hints did you get?

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:15 am What the hell? I'm not flame fanning on Seanzie, I think they have wolf equity and I took 112's post as an opportunity to express my read on them.

Why didn't you express that scumread before 112 came along? Why must someone else say Seanzie is scum first before you call him out? For that matter, what did Seanzie do that was scummy in the first place?

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:13 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:09 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:07 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:03 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:01 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:59 pm Mac's entrance is unimpressive. He remains firmly in my suspect pool.

@LinearPoint What is your opinion on my Creature case? You've been very absorbed with the alexa/nutella stuff. I'd like your view on other parts of the game.
Creature is being accused of the same thing Neeko is so Neeko is pretty much writing off the case entirely since Neeko knows it is NAI.
Creature's accusations also seem largely based on meta which Neeko is not familiar with.
That being said Neeko is lukewarm to the idea of Creature being Town. Not locktown, but nothing overly sus has been observed.
The first thing that sprang to mind when I read your post is this: "you are completely full of it".

[VOTE: LinearPoint] aubergine
Nah, Neeko speaks from the heart. The whole "fanning the flames" argument is just BS.
1) I brought up three points against Creature, but you're dismissing the entire case against him because of one point you disagree with.
2) It is obviously true that intentionally fanning the flames is a scummy move. Even if you think you personally haven't fanned any flames, it's disingenuous to extend that logic to protect Creature, without examining the specifics of why he's been accused of fanning flames.
3) None of the accusations I extended towards Creature were based on meta, except for the point about his low energy.

There is no logic in your post. There was no logic in your theory that alexa/nutella were partners, and that was why I dropped my townread on you. Now I have a full blown scumread on you.
The truth of the matter is Neeko didn't read your post as she didn't care to and still doesn't really care to.
The discussion about Creature in thread was a lot of meta talk and talk about fanning the flames.
The read given was based on Creature's posts and response to the pressure, none of which were bad imo.

Neeko also takes great offense to being associated with "no logic" when it was the obvious logical conclusion.

Oh cool. So you are admitting that you did not read the post I asked you to read and respond to, and instead of saying that, you chose to make up a half-assed response. I was right to think you were full of it.

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:13 am 112 had a really spot on assessment of you that brought to words everything I was thinking about you, even if I’m misreading you and ur actually town I don’t think a scum would take this approach on you

C4 has a snarky critical vibe, doesn’t feel like they’re playing to be townread and the evaluations I’ve seen from him so far show a good depth of thought that i haven’t seen him replicate as scum yet outside of when he’s bussing. they had that one post we both liked as well

Creature is a hard one to explain. I just think he’s lhf bait, I think the way he’s handled your push is towny, he isn’t being appealy or anything and the way he’s assessed your push is towny. His insistence that he things he’s gonna be a universal tr by eod is towny since last time I saw him as a wolf he got outed and buried d1 as one of the best roles meanwhile everytime I’ve seen him town he’s been a universal tr. so I think that confidence is town for him

Alexa is too derpy and all over the place to be scum. The way she handled her claim was way too over eager and messy in a way that’s towny for specifically her.

How do you think Creature would handle this push by me if he was mafia? (Keeping in mind he has 6 teammates that could potentially coach him?)

I think the rest of your explanations are okay. 112's read is wrong, but you're just saying it's a mindmeld, so sure. I found myself agreeing with that evaluation of C4. I am townreading Alexa for different reasons but I don't think townreading her for her handling of her claim is unreasonable at all.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:13 am Also I maintain being provocative is something I do as town to the feel over players' alignment based on their responses. Looks like unnecessary attention for me to do as wolf.

Except you can't furnish any receipts for actually getting info about people's alignment.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:11 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:09 am except for the point about his low energy.
Do I look low energy now?

You were at the time I wrote about it.

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:09 am I appreciate you Alison

I have not vibed with you at all this game. Why?

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:08 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:07 am LP and Creature are both great votes today.

Why are they great votes?

Refer to the post immediately before this for why LP is a good vote.

Refer to my massive post about Creature for why he is a good vote.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:07 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:03 am
LinearPoint wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:01 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:59 pm Mac's entrance is unimpressive. He remains firmly in my suspect pool.

@LinearPoint What is your opinion on my Creature case? You've been very absorbed with the alexa/nutella stuff. I'd like your view on other parts of the game.
Creature is being accused of the same thing Neeko is so Neeko is pretty much writing off the case entirely since Neeko knows it is NAI.
Creature's accusations also seem largely based on meta which Neeko is not familiar with.
That being said Neeko is lukewarm to the idea of Creature being Town. Not locktown, but nothing overly sus has been observed.
The first thing that sprang to mind when I read your post is this: "you are completely full of it".

[VOTE: LinearPoint] aubergine
Nah, Neeko speaks from the heart. The whole "fanning the flames" argument is just BS.

1) I brought up three points against Creature, but you're dismissing the entire case against him because of one point you disagree with.
2) It is obviously true that intentionally fanning the flames is a scummy move. Even if you think you personally haven't fanned any flames, it's disingenuous to extend that logic to protect Creature, without examining the specifics of why he's been accused of fanning flames.
3) None of the accusations I extended towards Creature were based on meta, except for the point about his low energy.

There is no logic in your post. There was no logic in your theory that alexa/nutella were partners, and that was why I dropped my townread on you. Now I have a full blown scumread on you.

LP and Creature are both great votes today.

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