The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:05 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:32 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:40 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:33 pm Meanwhile Alison is basically an unlimited cop lmao.

Me, designing Alison's role: "I can't wait to see the head games that go in between this role and the mafia team all game!"

Alison on Day 3: "Hey guys I'm the cop lol"

If it makes you feel better I was planning to do head game stuff where I intentionally townread people I red checked/scumread people I green checked to throw mafia off the scent, but then I saw that mafia was getting destroyed and we had mech semi-auto so I said "ok" and claimed.

I loved when you asked if you could self-target. I had never even thought of that as a strategy, but I was like hell yeah.

Yeah it was never optimal to do that unfortunately.

I'm just happy I was right about Oddmerta and Herm and that the first few days went so well for us.

Anyway I think everyone played well this game and it was a good game.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:40 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:33 pm Meanwhile Alison is basically an unlimited cop lmao.

Me, designing Alison's role: "I can't wait to see the head games that go in between this role and the mafia team all game!"

Alison on Day 3: "Hey guys I'm the cop lol"

If it makes you feel better I was planning to do head game stuff where I intentionally townread people I red checked/scumread people I green checked to throw mafia off the scent, but then I saw that mafia was getting destroyed and we had mech semi-auto so I said "ok" and claimed.

*jazz hands*

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:25 pm @Alison I remember you talking about maybe being redirected on I think N3. Did you come to a conclusion that didn't happen or wasn't likely to have happened or do you still suspect it might be true?

I don't remember this. I think you're town though.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:57 am So samu targeted alison N4

The only targeting role he had was an inherited roleblock

But it was known beforehand that Jules and tutu were protecting alison

So why the fuck does he target alison? Was he forced into it...?

the simplest explanation is that he kept thinking of tutuu as a jailkeeper, which would mean he forgot she stops roleblocks. he was trying to stop me from firing my check off in that case, which would indicate against mafia redirector

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:35 am

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:34 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:32 am A claimed cop is never going to solo lol

yeah I had a post on that saying something about her claim and clears but realised I don't have an explanation for the N1 nk

I mean it’s technically possible if she plays the “there’s a godfather” card maybe, idk

But it’s not a play you expect to win the game I’d say?

Regardless yeah we’ve got radishes and tutu both having said they protected her N1 so I’d guess she’s probably just town

there have been no other protectives or roleblocks that were claimed n1 so for me to be mafia I'd have to hard bus my own team d1/2, intentionally nokill n1 after losing nutella, and then randomly claim cop and start handing out green checks on townies (since if I am the last mafia then all the people I green checked are in fact actual townies).

you can just treat me as town.

agree nanook should be trusted. for nanook to be scum there would have to be 3 mafia visits on mac n1, and he would have to hard bus his own buddy in this spot. makes no sense.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:09 am Is there a mech reason to actually clear poison?

outed that there was a mafia role cop with the song nude d2

it would be pretty nonsensical for the mafia to give town info about their roles at that point in time, and it's also opening up samu to get shanked by the 3p. not a hard mech clear but pretty telling.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:29 am I remember losing to a non killing townsiding 3p once after towning super hard and killing all the mafia. It sucked.

to be fair that sounds like a poorly balanced role

tedxtr wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:22 am

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:15 am I have no idea what the fuck is going on with this magpie stuff

existence of a mafia redirector makes dizzy look a lot better so I'm no longer wanting to kill him

Did we confirm this? How?

tutuu pointed out that a lot of the mysteries surrounding night actions clear up quite a bit if we assume the existence of a mafia redirector

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:18 am i have no idea why we would assume that a role that makes people say "good morning mr magpie" has to be 3rd party. that sounds stupid and overly speculative toward mechanics

this sounds to me alot like SPF is saying "yes, I made them say magpie, but I am town and my role has a positive effect, not a negative one"

If I am completely off the mark on that guess I am sure someone will let me know

I will say that I've been checking different targets to those who said good morning mr magpie, and it would be pretty difficult for me to keep faking checks unless I'm actually making them, so you can cross me off the list of people who could be magpie-visitor.

I have no idea what the fuck is going on with this magpie stuff

existence of a mafia redirector makes dizzy look a lot better so I'm no longer wanting to kill him

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:16 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:12 am

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:10 am I could be wrong, Alison also fits the profile. Maybe someone else I'm not thinking of but it's my POE

What is making other people not qualified in your mind? I'd like to help you find this "3p" you speak of but I don't have access to your mind lol.

They've all been seen elsewhere, cleared somehow or claiming different things. I'm looking for unvouched people as the third

what do you mean by "seen elsewhere" here?

I care some amount about misexeing town but not as much as I do about the other reasons I had for voting tutuu ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:48 am I don't want anyone to feel bad but I still think yeeting her when Juliets and I both were saying she was town was complacency and laziness from the town involved and any justifications you can come up with about bomb threats or making a statement are just sanctimonious and silly. Just say you weren't around at EOD to change and don't care about the misyeet and be honest with yourself.

why should you saying that she is town affect my decision when it had nothing to do with her alignment and everything to do with her behavior

anyway I've submitted my cop check for tonight

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:20 am Normally I take the “don’t kill confirmed town even if they’re throwing” approach but

This one felt too satisfying not to

depends how hard they're throwing. I don't think tutuu was throwing to an extent whereby she'd actually lose us the game if we left her alive, and for that reason I did consider moving my vote off her once or twice. But as mentioned before, I think the EV of sending a message about what kind of behavior I want to see in my games outweighs the -EV of having an X% chance more to lose the game, where X is relatively small because we're doing quite well and we probably won't lose just by making a single misexe.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:01 am Ngl every time odd says “3rd” in reference to the third party (which totally makes sense!), I internally go “no we already caught the third, we’re looking for the fourth” and then remember this game has a shitty 3p in it

we already caught the fourth, we're looking for the fifth

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:49 pm Bomb threat rules can eat my ass. Tutuu was town and shouldn't have been yeeted for making a joke.

I didn't vote her for making a joke. I made it clear from the start that I did not believe she was the 3P and gave several reasons why. I voted her as a deterrent from pulling stunts like that in the future and because she's not the kind of slot I want to allow to live to endgame after what she did. I already explained that I was voting her on policy, I explained what the policy is and I don't regret it even though she flipped town. She's said that she's going to intentionally refuse to change her behavior because she doesn't want to be "bullied" into... not claiming scum every game, I guess? And if she does that then I'll continue exeing her every game, or more likely just stop signing up for games that she's in. I don't expect people to play "optimally" or whatever but if you can't even clear the very low bar of "not claiming scum and yelling at people who vote you for claiming scum", then I'm not going to enjoy putting up with your stunts every game.

no regrets

also we know that there are a lot of roles that do basically jack shit in this game, like LC's and nanook's

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:48 am what town role could spf be that is so strong that demands her to never claim anything

where has been the impact of this role?

same about oddmerta

mac said his role was weaker than mine or hally's and he still can't claim anything, so

if juliets is scum she's a hell of an actor.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:30 am You know what.

N1 Juliets targeted Alison. Tutuu stopped the kill.
N3 Juliets targeted Radishes. He died.
N5 Juliets targeted Wilgy. He died.

i don't buy it

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:28 am Nah Tutuu can't be this role if it exists.

like I said the chance of her being scum is around 5%. she's town in most worlds.

I meant that if JPIC was vanillaized he wouldn't be tracked as visiting tutuu because he wouldn't have the ability to go out of his house at all.

Vanilla roles can't visit. you could send in an "I visit X" night action to the host, but nothing would happen because you're a Vanilla.

I don't think you'd be shown as visiting a player if you're vanillaized

a policy vote is a vote that is explicitly placed as the result of a set rule, which does not necessarily guarantee that the person being voted has the highest scum equity, but rather acts as a deterrent to avoid problem behavior and to make it so that scum roles can't get away with certain things.

for instance, if I have a policy of "exe all lurkers", I'm not actually saying that the scum every game are the lurkers or that only scum players lurk. I'm saying that we can't afford to have lurkers in the game and if we allow people to get away with lurking then we're giving the mafia an easy way out. so on policy we will exe lurkers regardless of our individual read on them to force mafias to abandon any strategy that involves lurking.

in the particular example of lurkers, it's not the best policy because people who have good reasons for lurking will do so regardless of whether or not you have a policy against it since if I don't care enough about the game to post then I don't care enough to avoid getting exed. but I do think that voting you is a good idea even if I believe you are town because it deters problem behavior, removes your antics as a method for mafia to get away in similar situations in the future, and frankly we can afford to take time off for a policy exe because we are far enough ahead.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:20 am Alison, instead of voting for me me on policy, have you considered scumreading?

not sure if you know about that method but it involves looking at someone's day play and trying to figure out if it's coming from scum or town. it's a pretty obscure tactic but it works well for me

do you understand what a policy vote is?

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:31 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:24 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:18 am i feel like u guise want me dead purely for emotional reasons. u are afraid that you will look very foolish and embarassed if im 3p and i win

im not an arbiter of justice who gets to dictate ppl's emotions, i cant even control mine, so its fine if u guise act on ur emotions and yeet me

but at please be self-conscious that ur letting ur emotions take control! and that i am not objectively scummy or have high 3p equity!

if I exe you it'll be on policy not emotion. I don't subscribe to schools of thought along the lines of "I don't want to lose to X" or "I'm fine losing if X is mafia". I just think that if someone seriously claims scum then we should take them seriously. And also, we can afford to cover the possibility since we have a lot of kills left.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:42 pm mac is probably telling the truth about his mafia nuke tbh. he never lies about stuff like that. I'm fairly sure we just lose the game at the end of tonight and your roleblocker ability is out of shots so do you want to just message sloonei and tell him we concede?

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:42 pm oops sorry, wrong chat

please do me a favor and lynch yourself after me alison

the key word is "seriously". if you read the context of what I wrote I immediately wrote under that it was a joke and also included something in the thing that is obviously a joke. I didn't drag it on for 12 fucking hours and pretended that it was serious the whole time.

if you can't understand the difference between these two situations and why everyone got upset with you but not me then you don't understand the reason that people are voting you and shouldn't make jokes like that in the future.

also I suggest you calm down with getting pissy with me about this since I said there was a 5% chance you were telling the truth even before you said you were joking and gave like a list of reasons why you were probably town. I'm voting you anyway on policy because I can afford to.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:21 am I legit think we should just sleep and get more mech and make the mafia kill again. Maybe like indefinitely til Alison gets a red check lol.

an exe is a cop check, no?

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:18 am i feel like u guise want me dead purely for emotional reasons. u are afraid that you will look very foolish and embarassed if im 3p and i win

im not an arbiter of justice who gets to dictate ppl's emotions, i cant even control mine, so its fine if u guise act on ur emotions and yeet me

but at please be self-conscious that ur letting ur emotions take control! and that i am not objectively scummy or have high 3p equity!

if I exe you it'll be on policy not emotion. I don't subscribe to schools of thought along the lines of "I don't want to lose to X" or "I'm fine losing if X is mafia". I just think that if someone seriously claims scum then we should take them seriously. And also, we can afford to cover the possibility since we have a lot of kills left.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:23 am Alison does your result say the name of the player you target?

yes

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:28 am Alright everyone show's ever just tell us your alignment so we can go home

town

if a mafia redirector exists then that makes dizzy look better because it provides an alternative explanation as to why there was inconsistent night action claims

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:27 am Ted didn't lie about his song.

nice

ted is clear

[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

you only have yourself to blame ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

you only have yourself to blame ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:19 am very epic meme to collectively convince the majority of players in the game that they had already lost and should stop trying to read for well over 12 hours

yeah idk why tutuu is not understanding that it was in really bad taste despite mac, nanook, myself, you and juliets all saying that it was a dick move at best and gamethrowing at worst.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:18 am There's actually like eight reasons I'm clear with or without your check, but I appreciate your concern

i actually agree you're probably clear at this point so odd and LC are back in the pool

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:17 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:15 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:12 am Imo the only version of this game that results in a town loss is one where we don't yeet tutuu today

i legit think tutuu is probably going to flip town and then we'll all get upset at her for the claim and then we'll have to figure out how to check nook and LC again.

I mean I'm clear without your check, so.

Unless you think I'm a masochist that intentionally outed samu so I could solo kek

oh yeah that's true. maybe odd is the one to go for then.

green checks that can't be trusted:

nanook
LC
oddmerta

these were all done naked without any role that could stop a redirect protecting me.

the nanook and oddmerta ones are most suspect because I clearly indicated that I intended to check that specific individual so if the mafia have a redirector I'm not sure why they didn't use it to fake a red check.

I'll continue to make checks just to tie up the mafia redirector

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:16 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:15 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:12 am Imo the only version of this game that results in a town loss is one where we don't yeet tutuu today

i legit think tutuu is probably going to flip town and then we'll all get upset at her for the claim and then we'll have to figure out how to check nook and LC again.

I don't even care. We have enough misyeets to kill her.

ok

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:15 am I dont rly know how to solve a game with a redirector it turns everything on its head

have you considered scumreading

not sure if you know about that method but it involves looking at someone's day play and trying to figure out if it's coming from scum or town. it's a pretty obscure tactic but it works well for me